so i think we're live i'm here with hugh oh and hugh thanks for coming back to talk to me how are you doing very well thanks be to god always nice to see you we talked we're just talking before uh going live here and uh you're kind enough and wise enough to offer to open with prayer so do you mind leading that not at all in the name of the father and of the son the holy ghost amen our father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name amen thy kingdom come thy will be done on in earth give us this day our daily bread bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us right from the evil one on it o mary conceived without sin pray for us with the course to thee saint joseph pray for us for us all you holy angels and saints pray for us in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy ghost amen thank you for that i should open with prayer every time but uh i'm not in the habit of doing that maybe i will maybe i will it's a good habit to get into i'm praying constantly but i'm not in the habit of praying online yes it's a good idea it's a very good idea so thank you for that and i want to welcome you i want to welcome you back it's been uh more than a year and we've had a crazy year with covet i'd like before we start talking about bringing to the lord glory unto his name with your powerpoint presentation i'd like to just catch up with you a little bit about covid uh what is it how is it affecting you how is it affecting the church the eastern part of the church in the western part of the church it's been devastating how's it affecting your family your health your employment all those sorts of things can you talk a brief outline to the extent that you're comfortable please well i'd really just like to refer interviews that our biologist pamela acker has given on lifesite news also on census fidelium um she gives a much better overview from the perspective of an expert in biology and so i would be much more comfortable if the viewers would look at her interviews especially the one on life site news with john henry weston and also i highly recommend her book vaccination a catholic perspective which has a section that deals specifically with uh the coronavirus experimental vaccines but um the one thing that i will say is that one of the themes of the book is that the way vaccination is currently practiced not just the coronavirus vaccine but vaccination in general really developed out of a materialistic enlightenment philosophy mentality and i think pamela acker does an excellent job of showing how short-sighted this materialistic mechanistic way of looking at the world and health and the human body really is and that what is absolutely necessary to deal properly with any health crisis is to properly understand and appreciate the divine design of the of the human body and in particular when we're dealing with infectious disease the divine design of the immune system and if a fraction of the effort and resources were devoted to really understanding the workings of the divinely designed immune system we wouldn't be in the mess that we're in and for unfortunately um a lot of the uh terrible problems that we're seeing with adverse reactions to the experimental vaccines and predictions from world-class experts who are pro-vaccine saying that these experimental vaccines are actually going to create a much worse problem than they're attempting to solve all of this could have been avoided if scientists and medical researchers were approaching the problem of infectious disease within the framework of the traditional the catholic doctrine of creation instead almost all of them are operating within an evolutionary framework where there is no divine design we're the product of hundreds of millions of years of mutation and natural selection and therefore human beings think that it's a good thing for them to tinker with what is only the product of um hundreds of millions of years of mutation and natural selection because we're intelligent and we can of course use our intelligence or so we think to make things better but this is just hubris because the reality is we don't even begin to comprehend the intricacy the marvels of the divinely designed immune system and if we were in our right minds we would we would be concentrating on understanding the divine design of the immune system and then figuring out how to boost and and maximize the working of the divinely designed immune system and in this way we would do far more not only to yeah it reminds me of listening to speak there about the materialistic approach to medical sciences it reminds me of an episode of the unexplained with william shatner and it's a silly show talking about the mysteries of the pyramids and these sorts of things but there was an episode about serial killers and they had chopped up the brain of a notorious serial killer to try to find the solution and solve the mystery of what it is about this person's brain that caused him to be a pervert violent pervert and it's just laughable you know you know the answer is spiritual you know the answer is sin the indulgence of sin we're supposed to avoid the near occasion of sin we're not supposed to indulge in pornography which leads to all kinds of perversions and there ted bundy is one example of a certain of a of a repentant ostensibly repentant serial killer who said pornography pornography pornography is the key it's the gateway into sex and violence and i i can attest to that from myself i've had a lot of experience not a lot of experience but before my conversion i dabbled in pornography and it opens a gateway to all kinds of fantasies and you wonder where these fantasies come from the materialist biologist would have a hard time explaining that it would go back to some millions of years of accrued i guess genetic history genetic memory but for me it's it's it's very apparent as a catholic that it's demonic and the images imagery that you're tempted with uh from my experience the more you allow yourself to go into uh sexual aberration the more violence will creep into it i've had a firsthand experience with this and i'm not uh i'm not a violent uh person i've never been violent but i know that i'm capable of it because at the prompting of the demons uh there's seemingly an excitement that comes with that a sexual excitement and an energy like a a tidal wave of energy that the demons bring you with this imagery and uh i can fully sympathize with serial killers because i know that ride that that tidal wave of adrenaline and excitement and you start planning like what would it be like to do this what would it be like to do that and all all sexual fantasies are evil i think i mean we're in the eastern church we're told not to create images of anything even holy images we're supposed to hear our kind of images and uh having read the fellow khalia i've been sobered by that to be aware even of religious imagery and comet conjuring up religious imagery so imagine what it's like to have your head full of pornography and to have your head full of uh these demonic images that are being elaborated upon the more you say yes the deeper and darker they get yes so you're not gonna find you're not going to find the answer in the slice of a killer's brain you're just not going to find it it's laughable it is it's absurd i wanted to talk to you about geocentrism because a lot of people a few people have been mentioning it to me because i believe in creationism the traditional catholic teaching on creationism they said are you a geocentrist and if not why not and i'm open to geocentrism i want to get your perspective you have a little powerpoint presentation or maybe it's a big one i'm going to let you lead the discussion and talk me through it talk my viewers through it and bear in mind that i'm not very impressed with the natural sciences the arguments from natural sciences or the proofs from natural sciences i'm more excited about theology and philosophy but if there's some natural science in here uh i'll pay attention to it but i'm not going to take it that that seriously in terms of the weight i'll give more weight to theology and philosophy so just bear that in mind when you're choosing which slides to emphasize okay so just go for it absolutely yes i i've tried to respect the proper hierarchy of the sciences in this presentation so the emphasis is definitely on theology and philosophy but primarily theology the queen of the sciences so any references to natural science will be to them as uh subordinate sciences i'd like to begin by simply drawing attention to the fact that our lord jesus christ really gave us one prayer and this prayer must be awfully important because it's it's the prayer that was given to us by the son of god and in that prayer he teaches us to ask our all-knowing all-loving heavenly father that his will be done on earth as it is in heaven it's very specific he doesn't ask us to pray that his will be done in the whole universe as it is in heaven he asks that his will be done on earth the lord's prayer the prayer of the son of god is geocentric it tells us that the earth is the spiritual capital of the universe the earth is the place where god became man the earth is the place where the immaculate conception gave birth to the son of god the earth is the place where the son of god suffered and died and rose again for our redemption the earth is the place where the holy ghost was sent upon the apostles and our lady so that the church could be brought forth so that we could become partakers of the divine nature and cooperate with the grace of god in restoring this earth back to to the way that it was in the beginning and to an even more wonderful perfection in in the future so um i would like to ask our audience to to consider that i'm sure all of us who are catholics we believe that god is all good we believe that our heavenly father is an all-loving all-knowing father and therefore he if he communicates something to us through his church from the beginning of the church for a long period of time about any subject it would be absolute follow folly and in total contradiction to his character for that revelation to be false because even as jesus says what father among you if his son asked for a loaf of bread would give him a stone so even sinful fathers when we tell our children the history of our family if if the father is good just at the natural level he's going to do his best to tell his children an accurate account of the history of his family he's not going to deliberately deceive his children and grandchildren about the origin of their family not even a sinful pagan is going to do that so how much more our heavenly father who is all good who's all-knowing who is all wise who knows everything how much more can we be certain that whatever he has revealed about our location in time and space especially if it's something that he has revealed in his word through the church from the time of our lord and the apostles continuously it's impossible what does our lord reveal in the sacred history of genesis he reveals that he created the earth in the beginning it's astonishing to me how even among those who take the sacred history of genesis seriously and who believe that god created everything by fiat there is a tendency on the part of so many to ignore the fact that moses tells us plainly that god created the earth from the beginning again showing that the earth is central to god's plan now it's also remarkable that our all-knowing all-loving heavenly father the most holy trinity together devoted an entire day the second day of the hexam run to creating something called the firmament now if you're like me you've probably never really given any serious thought to the firmament i know even after being dedicated to defending the traditional teaching of the church on creation for a long time i i just thought that the firmament was was something unimportant and and eventually it dawned on me that it's impossible that god would reveal to us that he devoted a day to creating this thing if this thing were not very important and an interesting thing about the firmament is it's a it's a translation which is an extraordinary word because it means something that is so hard that it can't be broken and yet birds can fly through it and if we had time to go into a lot of depth in our treatment of this topic which we don't we would find that one of the reasons why so many serious christians both catholic and protestant reject geocentrism is because they've been taught that the ancient hebrews believed that the firmament uh was a kind of a a hemispheric bowl a solid bowl that covered the earth and and the universe and that this showed that they had a primitive understanding of cosmology and therefore we shouldn't bother to take seriously the things that moses tells us about the firmament but this is complete nonsense in reality if you understand raqqa which is the hebrew word which is the basis for firmament and for saint jerome's choice of the word for momentum it has both the meaning of something that is firm to the point of being unbreakable and yet it's totally transparent things can pass through it seemingly without any apparent resistance or obstruction whatsoever so this firmament is a very remarkable thing and another thing that's remarkable about it is that the second day is the only day when god does not say that the work was good and this is not because the firmament is not good it's because the work of the firmament is not completed until the fourth day of creation because god puts the sun and the moon in the stars in the firmament on the fourth day and there are numerous places in holy scripture where we are told that god stretched out the firmament so this this firmament that fills all space was stretched out by almighty god as he created or after he created the the stars the sun the moon and the stars and later on in this presentation we'll see that that this is an extremely important reality to be kept in mind when we try to come up with a realistic cosmology and uh so we're going to come back to that but what i want to emphasize before moving on is that even the firmament is totally geocentric because remember we just saw that the earth was covered with water in the beginning and the firmament fills the space from the water on the earth to the waters above the heavens it fills everything but the earth is the reference point and there's no way to really understand what moses has revealed here if the earth doesn't have and again when god creates the sun and the moon the earth has already been in existence from the beginning they are created in reference to the earth they are created to be signs and seasons days and years for god's children on earth that's why they exist not for any other purpose now if we continue through the holy scriptures we'll see that from beginning to end they have a geocentric perspective in which the sun makes a circuit around the earth and this is what creates the day night cycle from the fourth day of creation prior to that on the first day of creation god creates a light which is supernatural which alternates with darkness to create the day night cycle but on the fourth day of creation he creates the sun and the fathers of the church tell us that god does this so that as long as man retains the revelation that was given originally to adam and and eventually was put into the pentateuch by moses he will know that the son is not the source of life on earth that the son is a creature but wherever man loses touch with the original revelation that god gave to the patriarchs and to moses what happens man begins to worship the son as a god and we'll see that that's very much at the root of the heliocentric theories that were put forward by copernicus and his disciples but for now let's just consider one of the most striking passages in the bible where god is clearly teaching us that the sun moves in relation to the earth and that is of course joshua's long day josh was engaged in a battle with these the enemies of the the people of god he needs more time to finish the work he asks god to extend to to make the sons stand still and what's significant here for those who say well everything's relative uh really what happened was the earth stopped rotating the problem with that is that god has in a sense checkmated that uh a kind of sophistical out from taking this passage in the literal obvious sense because we are told that not only did the sun stand still the moon also stopped so the fact that the sun and the moon both stop tells us that they are moving in relation to the earth and that it's not just that the earth is moving and that the earth's movement stops and that's what creates the appearance of a change in the heavens now all over the earth anthropologists and historians astronomers have been able to find traditions among many different people groups of a long day or a long night depending upon where on earth the people group was located at the time that joshua's long day took place so this is not a fairy tale this is something that really happened and it is corroborated by the tradition of many different people groups all over the earth now solomon we're told in the word of god was certainly one of the wisest men who ever lived perhaps the wisest in natural wisdom ever to have lived on the earth and his teaching is clear a generation goes and a generation comes but the earth remains forever the sun rises and the sun goes down and hastens to the place where it rises now there is absolutely no question as we'll see that the fathers and doctors of the church always understood this language in a geocentric geostatic sense the plain and obvious sense of this statement is that the earth doesn't move it's stationary and the sun moves in relation to the earth now this is definitely the teaching of the church fathers here we have seen ambrose doctor of the church teaching that the earth is not suspended in the middle of the universe like a balance hung in equilibrium but the majesty of god holds it together by the law of his own will so that what is steadfast should prevail over the void and unstable by the will of god therefore the earth is immovable and then he quotes ecclesiastes the earth standeth forever now this is worth pondering for a moment because we can see that while there may be a physical explanation for how the earth remains stationary in the center or near to the center of the universe that isn't necessary for us to believe what god has revealed because saint ambrose is telling us that god holds the earth immovable in the center of the universe so those people who say well there has to be a physical explanation and physicists have to be able to explain in terms of physics how everything works are not approaching this problem in a truly catholic spirit it's saint ambrose and the church fathers who have the right point of departure there may indeed and we'll see some of the physical evidence that uh supports the geocentric model of the universe but we shouldn't demand a physical proof of geocentrism we should accept that if the literal and obvious sense of scripture is that the universe is geocentric and there is no proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it's not geocentric then we stay with the literal and obvious sense of the word of god now it's very interesting that not only did the fathers and doctors of the church maintain this geocentric geostatic understanding of the universe for century after century from the time of the apostles but saint hildegard of bingen was made a doctor of the church by pope benedict xvi one of the greatest mystical saints in the history of the church was shown a remarkable series of visions of the cosmos and what's truly remarkable about these visions is that not only is the earth at the center immovable but she was shown that the planets went around the sun so that her vision what god showed her was not the ptolemaic model of the cosmos or of the solar system it was something different and we're going to see that 500 years roughly or 400 plus 50 years after saint hildegard bingham the greatest astronomer of his age tycho brahe formulates this very model of the solar system as an improvement on the ptolemaic system but in opposition to the heliocentric model of the solar system which had the sun at the center and the earth going around the sun remarkable then we have copernicus and i think it's worth reading this paragraph together from karl popper the famous philosopher of science because there is a myth that was certainly taught to me in my science classes and i'm sure it was probably taught to most of our audience that copernicus was this great scientist who made astronomical observations and from his scientific study formulated a better model of the solar system than the ptolemaic model that was being used by most of the astronomers of his day this is nonsense here's what karl popper says copernicus studied in bologna under the platonus novara and copernicus idea of placing the sun rather than the earth in the center of the universe was not the result of new observations but of a new interpretation of old and well-known facts in the light of semi-religious platonic and neoplatonic ideas now if the sun merited a divine status then it was hardly possible for it to revolve about the earth the only fitting place for so exalted a star was the center of the universe so the earth was bound to revolve about the sun this platonic idea then forms the historical background of the copernican revolution it does not start with observations but with the religious or mythological idea and did you know that freemasons have to profess heliocentrism to advance through the degrees of freemasonry that is a fact ah that is a fact i want to stop you there and just talk about uh saint augustine as a as a neoplatonist to the degree that to the degree that he was a neoplatonist or a platonist i mean there there are many historical overviews of philosophy that would put saint augustine in that camp i as a student as an atheist student of philosophy western philosophy was always a platonist first and foremost aristotle is is you know worthy of my respect but not necessarily my devotion and my love and i have a sort of uh i i have a natural inclination toward the forms and the other worldliness of plato versus the more grounded aristotelian way of looking at the world okay so i think that the franciscan school picks up on the platonic thread in catholic philosophy and aquinos maybe was more on the side of aristotle do you want to just talk about the limits of one of my favorite saints saint augustine's platonism do you want to talk about the limits of that and how he tempered that with uh the true teachings of the church of only very briefly because otherwise very briefly we'll be here all night and we'll never will never get to the end of what is already you know very um introductory treatment of a of a very important topic i would just say this that um seeing augustine's platonism is very different from the platonism of non-christian philosophers because in saint augustine's system the divine ideas are the ideas in the mind of god they don't exist in some kind of uh twilight zone yeah and they're they're completely bound up with the christian understanding of god the most holy trinity so that's a fundamental point but in the second point runs through all the writings of saint augustine is that the word of god trumps everything else so as much as saint augustine loved platonic philosophy he never would take a philosophical concept and give it more weight than the literal and obvious sense of scripture and he makes that clear in the literal interpretation of genesis so that's all i'm going to say on that but getting back to copernicus another thing that i think is important to understand is that copernicus was infatuated with gnosticism and he embraced a gnostic tradition of esoteric knowledge which goes back to the ancient greeks and this is a uh a a tradition that is not uh sound because it's very much involved with the occult it's involved with satan and demons and it's this esoteric tradition that promotes the idea of the sun as some kind of a divine creature almost a divine being and from that starting point creates a physical model of the solar system that conforms to their you know esoteric understanding or belief of the the role of the sun and the significance of the sun and what's also important to understand is that copernicus was not a faithful son of the church he lived a very immoral life as this article quoted here says he had a mistress even though he was a priest and when it was found out and he was confronted by his own bishop he refused to put her aside and his close associate who was very much his public relations man who helped to put his writings into a form that would be acceptable to uh thinking people in a in a geocentric world where everybody virtually without exception accepted the testimony of their senses that the earth was stationary and that the sun moved around the earth reticus was an the more that that we study the leading thinkers who have promoted different schools of thought and philosophies that contradict the traditional doctrine of creation the more we're struck by the way that they were involved in the occult and by the way that they lived immoral lives in contradiction to the teaching of the church and it is it is simply unthinkable that someone would be able to bring to the world a true revolutionary understanding of the true nature of things if that person was living a life in total opposition to the teaching of christ it's simply not viable and so we see that shortly after the time of copernicus the protestant revolution forces the magisterium of the church the teaching authority of the church to produce the most important formulation of the dogmas of the faith in the entire history of the catholic church and these dogmas are then summed up very beautifully in what is generally known as the roman catechism the catechism of the council of trent which was not written for the ordinary lay faithful it was written for pastors so that they could teach the dogmas of the faith in very plain clear language to their faithful all over the world and this catechism was the gold standard for teaching and preaching the dogmas of the faith for 450 years and it is still authoritative it's the only one that's quoted in the new catechism it's quoted 20 times because it gives very clear and precise definitions of the dogmas of the faith and what does this gold standard of teaching and preaching for 450 years all over the world tell us about the earth and the sun it tells us that the earth is stationary at the center of the universe and that the sun makes a circuit around the earth now as the catechism of trent was being published the ideas of copernicus were beginning to excite a lot of interest among intellectuals in europe and yet the greatest astronomer of the time of pythagoras and galileo that roughly that period of time from the time of copernicus to the to the death of galileo the greatest astronomer in that period of time was not copernicus and was not galileo it was tico brahe chico brahe made more meticulous observations of the heavens than any astronomer in recorded history up to that time and he of course saw that the ptolemaic model of the solar system needed to be improved but he came up with a model which is remarkably similar to what was shown to saint hildegard of bingen 400 plus years before tico brahe and tico was virulently anti-catholic knew nothing about saint hildegard and wanted to know nothing about anything that came from the catholic church so it's certainly a rather remarkable non-coincidence that what god showed to saint hildegard doctor of the church namely the planets going around the sun and the sun going around the earth was the very model of the solar system that the greatest astronomer of his age formulated in opposition both to the ptolemaic model of the solar system and to the model that was being proposed by copernicus and galileo and their disciples and of course his model was perfectly compatible with the traditional teaching of the church that god commanded the earth to stand motionless in the midst of the world now galileo was um a real astronomer unlike copernicus he actually used a telescope he actually made observations and he realized that there were observations that could not be reconciled with ptolemy just as tikka brahe did but he thought that he had a good reason for believing in heliocentrism and when he looked at jupiter for example and he saw that there were these little objects that were rotating or revolving or orbiting i should say the great big planet jupiter by analogy he thought that it was incongruous that the great big sun would be orbiting the tiny little earth but as we'll see uh this is um while it's um an interesting analogy and you could say it's a reasonable reason for uh investigating how it would be possible for the great big sun to be orbiting the earth rather than vice versa it's certainly not a proof that geocentrism is false or that heliocentrism is true now galileo began to be much more outspoken than copernicus ever was in holding that heliocentrism was not just a theory or a model that could be used to kind of explain what we see but in a theoretical way no galileo was very outspoken in putting forward his opinion that heliocentrism was the truth that the heliocentric model was the accurate model that described the solar system and this is what caused the uh conflict between galileo and the teaching authority of the church because as saint robert bellarmine explained who was the person representing dealing with galileo and his ideas saint robert bellamy doctor of the church stated clearly to galileo that all the holy fathers agree on the literal interpretation that the son is in heaven and rotates around the earth with great speed and that the earth is very far from the heavens and stands immobile at the center of the world nor can one reply that it is not a matter of faith because of the subject matter it is a matter of faith because of the speaker think about that see robert bellermann doctor of the church is saying look just because the statements in scripture about the earth making an orbit around the sun are dealing with the natural world does not mean that we can take them or leave them because it's god who is making these statements and therefore we believe them because it's god who is revealing them now interestingly enough galileo was forced to publicly recant his belief in heliocentrism and the last letter that he wrote actually contains a very beautiful explanation to a correspondent of his of why it's arrogant in the extreme to hold that heliocentrism has been proven to be true and that geocentrism cannot be an accurate model of reality now i think there's a good case to be made that galileo wasn't sincere in writing this letter that that it was politically expedient for him at the end of his life to express this opinion in the way that he did but nevertheless what he actually says in the letter is really beautiful and and worthy of contemplation and also an embarrassment to those who want to hold him up as the great champion of heliocentrism against the obscurantist church and this is what he wrote he says the conjectures employed by copernicus and his followers are all sufficiently rebutted by that most solid argument deriving from the omnipotence of god he is able to bring about in different ways indeed in an infinite number of ways things that according to our opinion and observation appear to happen in one particular way we should not seek to shorten the hand of god and boldly insist on something beyond the limits of our competence isn't that beautiful yeah that is a statement whether it was sincere or not that really ought to be um in every science classroom in the entire world because it really puts the work of natural science in its proper place in relation to divine science and galileo signed that but his signature was liquid paper was applied on his they tried to scratch out the signature most authoritative biographers if not the most authoritative biographer of galileo acknowledges that it's a genuine letter again unfortunately i think there's a very good case to be made that galileo wasn't really sincere in what he wrote but that doesn't change the fact that what he wrote is true and is is definitely a wonderful summary of the attitude that every catholic natural scientist ought to have now seen in robert bellarmine um was very patient and very courteous and very thoughtful in the way that he looked at the work of galileo and and communicated with him but he he's very clear when he says to galileo that the council of trent and and and not just to galileo but to his followers he says the council of trent prohibits interpreting scripture against the common consensus of the holy fathers and if your paternity wants to read not only the holy fathers this is um he's writing this to uh antonio foscarini but also the modern commentaries on genesis etc you'll find all agreeing in the literal interpretation that the sun is in heaven and turns around the earth with great speed and that the earth is very far from heaven and sits motionless at the center of the world now i'd like to ask all of our viewers and listeners to think about this statement and to think about it in relation to the character of god are we supposed to believe that our god who is all good all-knowing and all-loving allowed his word to clearly teach a geocentric model of the universe then allowed his his church to continue this teaching from generation to generation for 1500 years only to have arrogant men and in many cases immoral men like copernicus and reticus and arrogant men like galileo certainly was before the end of his life have them come on the scene and enlighten us that in in reality what god had allowed us to believe was wrong is this is this credible is there any catholic who has an ounce of piety who can actually believe that our god would allow this travesty to occur it's not it's not credible and yet the question this question that i'm putting to the audience is almost never put to catholics we're made to treat this topic as if it were a purely scientific in the sense of natural science question and it's not it's not it the character of god is at stake the mantra today from the pulpit and from those who teach catholicism is that the bible is not a book of natural science that you'll hear that over and over and over again to explain away the things that natural science has created an embarrassing alternative worldview for and i i listen to some catholic catechesis and teachings and it's very very rare to find one that's a creationist and i think even more rare to find one that's a geocentrist but they're always making excuses for the bible and those awkward and embarrassing uh teachings of the early church and by early church we mean right up until the time basically of galileo and picard yes yes and and and yet the greatest astronomer of the age chico brahe had a perfectly viable model of the solar system that dealt with the deficiencies of the ptolemaic model that did not require contradicting the literal naviance sense of the of the word of god and therefore the jesuit astronomers who were the greatest astronomers in the church most of them did not embrace the holy centric model in the time of galileo but favored the tyconian model and uh i think robert woman of course uh was famous for saying that if somebody could give him proof that it was actually the sun that was moving around the i'm sorry that it was the earth it was moving around the sun and rotating on its axis and it was not the sun that was making an orbit around the earth then we would have to say that we didn't really understand the scriptures and this state and and we would have to interpret them accordingly but we often lose sight of the fact that he's he says he i don't i do not believe that there is such a demonstration and and this is important because he says at the end of this paragraph in case of doubt one must not abandon the holy scripture as interpreted by the holy fathers so in other words unless somebody gives us proof beyond any reasonable doubt that the literal and obvious sense of scripture is true we are not to abandon it we are not to abandon the word of our all good all-loving all-knowing heavenly father because of some conjecture or hypothesis which may be able to explain some of the evidence but which does not and so pope paul v ordered the congregation of the index to prohibit books that promote heliocentrism in 1616 and in 1633 condemned the view that the earth is moving around the sun and required that galileo renounce this thesis and it's important to see why they did this and it's right there in the middle of this paragraph that they they're they say that galileo is vehemently suspected of heresy because they can't know what's in his mind or in his heart they can't be sure that he actually holds this view because he's been saying that he's put it in writing to get it out there but he doesn't himself necessarily subscribe to it so they say he's suspected of heresy but the heresy is to have believed and held the doctrine which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine scriptures to wit that the sun is in the center of the world and that it does not move from east to west and that the earth moves and is not the center of the universe so this is very authoritative the holy office with the full support and under the direct leadership of pope irving the eighth says that these propositions are contrary to the word of god now the fact that galileo was successful in leading a revolution as a result of which in succeeding generations the overwhelming majority of intellectuals within christendom went over to this copernican heliocentric view of the universe was one of the greatest revolutions in the history of the world and i i think arthur cressler was not exaggerating when he wrote that this new copernican philosophy destroyed the medieval vision of an immutable social order in a walled-in universe with its fixed hierarchy of moral values and transformed the european landscape society culture habits and general outlook as thoroughly as if a new species had arisen on this planet of course the person who really seemed to prove that the heliocentric system was true was not galileo it was newton and newton was the one who with his ideas about gravity appeared to make the case once and for all that the little earth could not have the great big sun in orbit around it that the only way to make sense of what we see in terms of gravity is that the little earth it must be in orbit around the great big sun but this is actually a very very parochial way of looking at the cosmos because as ernst mack pointed out in the 19th century if we're going to say that objects in the solar system have an interaction with each other a gravitational interaction with each other how can we justify ignoring everything else in the entire universe and say that all of these other innumerable objects have no gravitational effect it's foolish and so he he points out that if we take the whole universe into consideration and we consider all of the gravitational interactions that take place besides ordinary gravitation acted on the sun and the planets and indeed here's proposition 43 where newton himself admits that in order for the earth to be at rest in the center of the system of the sun planets and comets there is required both universal gravity and another force in addition that acts on all bodies equally and he says if this is the way that it is then it's entirely possible that ecosystem could be true so here the propaganda campaign um by scientific associations especially in england and in france that newton's proven that heliocentrism is true is totally bogus because newton himself admits that it's entirely feasible to create a model as tico did that make sense of everything that we see so there's no proof and this continues to be the case there are a number of experiments we don't have time to talk about which were undertaken to provide that elusive proof of heliocentrism and every single one of them can be explained as well or better in the geocentric system as in a heliocentric system but then we come to the most famous of the more recent experiments designed to prove that the earth was moving at high speed around the sun which was the mickelson-morley experiment and because of time we won't go into the details of it but i'm just going to point out that in the time of mickelson morley all the greatest physicists in the world believed that there was something that filled all of space that they called ether and this is really just common sense because nothing doesn't exist nothing is nothing and it simply doesn't make sense metaphysically speaking to think that space is filled with nothing and so the greatest physicist in the world to a man and acted on the on the belief the principle that there is an ether a very very fine substance that fills all of space and that if the earth is moving rapidly around the sun at 66 000 miles per hour then we should be able to measure the movement of the earth through the ether now according to most of the science textbooks nicholson morley didn't find resistance to the earth motion that is false they found a small resistance of the ether or movement of the ether in relation to the earth but nothing like what they were expecting to find that would confirm that the earth was actually moving at 66 000 miles per hour around the sun what they did find is there is perfectly compatible with the geocentric system and you know today from the work of sanyak and other physicists and astronomers that electromagnetic waves do move faster from east to west than from west to east and nasa even admits when questions by correspondence that they have to take this fact into account when they program their satellites what this means is that there is an ether and there are ether currents that move in relation to the earth but those ether currents are not consistent with the heliocentric model and they are consistent with the geocentric model of the universe if you want the details you'll have to go to the work of uh robertson genus and uh dr robert bennett in their book uh galileo was wrong the church was right or you could look at um geocentrism 101 or geocentrism for dumskis all of those books explain in detail how the mickelson morley experiment failed to provide the long sought proof for heliocentrism and actually pro is completely consistent with the geocentric geostatic model of the universe but what i want to point out to our audience is that in spite of the fact that by this time the end of the 19th century the overwhelming majority of catholic intellectuals had embraced heliocentrism the constant teaching of the church in her universal catechesis was still geocentric and saint teresa lisia for example that saint who was called by saint pius the tenth the greatest saint of modern times in her catechism which was the catechism of perseverance she was taught this why were the sun moon and stars not created until the fourth day they were not created until the fourth day to teach man that they are not the authors of the productions of the earth god wished thereby to prevent idolatry do you see this do you see that the little flowers her soul was being nurtured with the traditional teaching of the church of six day creation and not only that her little soul was being nurtured with the constant traditional geocentric teaching of the church question what further do you remark with respect to the sun answer i remark that the sun rises and sets every day runs his course with great velocity illumines and vivifies all nature it is in this an image of christ who having gone forth from the bosom of his father returned to heaven after after having enlightened all men by his doctrine and sanctified them by his merits and example i know a traditional priest who was convinced that geocentrism could not be true because he said the son represents our lord jesus christ and the son must be in the center but he was totally disconnected from the tradition of the church in that respect a very good very good priest because it's obvious that geocentrism does no dishonor to our lord jesus christ and here you have the beautiful catechesis that explains how the sun going around the earth is a beautiful image of our lord who came not to serve not to be served but to serve and to acts as the bride groom to his to his bride i just have a quick question about the catechism of perseverance here yeah is this a private revelation uh who who or else the catechism of perseverance was a catechism that was used to teach hundreds of thousands of catholics their faith the author was a monsignor gom and on the kobe website in our kobe web store a gentleman by the name of chris devos did a marvelous work collecting catechisms that were in use all over the world at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century and he shows that they all taught six day creation and they also were teaching geocentrism amazing so you're you're linking this with saint there's delisius to show that uh this was the education that she received is that the point of linking her yes and and not only the education that she received which obviously didn't do her any harm if she was the greatest saint of modern times as saint pius the 10th tells us but this was the education that every catholic was receiving all over the entire world and so again it raises the question are we supposed to believe that our heavenly father who is all good all-knowing and all-loving is allowing all of his children all over the world to be taught six day creation and geocentrism when all the while he knows that it's do we need albert einstein to enlighten us about reality no we don't and albert einstein admitted in 1924 that the whole reason why he came up with this ridiculous self-contradictory system of special relativity i shouldn't even call it a system was because he had he wanted to find a way to explain the results of the mickelson morley experiment that did not involve a return to a geocentric geostatic model of the so the most straightforward interpretation of the mickelson morley experiment which was that the earth is stationary and is not in orbit around the sun was simply ruled out without any proper consideration and instead albert einstein was brought on the stage as the savior to keep the earth moving and to tell us all this gobbledygook with a with a system that doesn't even observe the fundamental principles of logic and common sense and yet even albert einstein has to admit that within his relativistic system that you can create a perfectly viable model of the universe which has the stars rotating around the earth fixed at the center and so remarkably when we get up to very recent times we have pope benedict xvi in a speech in parma italy in 1990 telling us that no one can suppose the earth to be fixed and the sun is mobile the process against galileo was reasonable and just everything's relative so we can't say that we've proven that the sun is moving in relation to the earth or that the earth is moving in relation to the sun in terms of natural science now interestingly enough since parma was the center of galileo's activities the holy father was made to understand that he would not be welcome in karma ever again after giving that speech but he did give that speech and it's and it's accurate now cardinal branmiller was the president of the pontifical committee for historical sciences for more than 10 years after a very thorough study of the whole history of the galileo affair he says the most recent scientific findings and sure enough if our viewers want to go on the internet they can easily find the movie the principal um i think that's available for free viewing uh or they can get it from robertson janus's organization uh or they can find his dvd journey to the center of the universe which points out all kinds of physical evidence which even atheist scientists like lawrence krauss admit indicate that the earth is at or near the center of the universe and some of this evidence is absolutely astonishing here's um astronomer varshney probably of a of a hindu background who observed that when you look at the position of quasars out into deep space he noticed that they're arranged on 57 spherical shells with the earth as the center what are the odds what are the odds that out into the farthest reaches of space you're going to find objects like this all of them oriented towards the earth in a central position here's another astrophysicist he has no acts to grind for traditional catholicism to be sure and yet he publishes that gamma ray bursts also are distributed with the earth at the center binary stars about 85 of the stars we see are binaries they're paired and almost all of them are pointing toward the earth so are we in a special place dr dean kenyon was one of the first scientists to join the advisory council of the kobe center 20 years ago and he says that his intellectual conversion to geocentrism was second only to his conversion from evolutionism to belief in special creation and he points out as someone who not only has a phd in biophysics but also did postgraduate work for nasa and has a very good understanding of astronomy and physics he says especially persuasive our recent data on the distribution of galaxies in the cosmos gamma-ray bursts and the distribution of quasars all of which strongly suggest that the earth lies at or very near the center of the cosmos and then there are the astounding data obtained by the wilkerson and planck probes on patterns in the cosmic microwave background radiation these data show that the cmb dipole axis is aligned with the earth's equator and that the cmb quadrupole and octopoloxes are aligned with the ecliptic so much for the copernican principle the copernican principle of course being the idea that there is no favored position in the universe and so this is important my brothers and sisters this is a very very important because our children and grandchildren are being brought up in a world where the prevailing view is that articulated by carl sagan may god have mercy upon him our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people is it any wonder that even in catholic schools our young people are piercing themselves getting drunk using drugs getting addicted to pornography when this is the bogus concept of the universe that we allow to be taught to them in their own science classrooms in catholic schools and universities all here we have one of the leading catholic experts in physics advisor to science advisor to the prestigious journal first things telling us there was never a creation merely continuation what we deem our creation the formation of the earth and the solar system was in fact merely part of the ongoing life process of the universe i can't bear to read the rest of the paragraph didn't we just see at the beginning of this presentation that god himself revealed that the earth was created at the beginning and this man has the gall to state as compatible with catholic teaching and tradition that the earth is merely the result of an evolutionary process of billions of years and he says of course we only recently abandoned the notion that our earth is the center of the universe and this of course is absolutely at the heart of the diabolical spirituality of father teotis chardan who wrote today we know with absolute certainty that the stellar universe is not centered on the earth and that terrestrial life is not centered on mankind with the end of geocentrism what was emerging was the evolutionist point of view you know pope benedict xvi frankly admitted that when he went to vatican 2 as an expert one of the main things that they were trying to do if not the main objective of the liberal wing of the episcopate and the experts the parity that they brought with them to the second vatican council was to correct the error that the church made in relation to galileo and to get right with the world which everything had been kind of out of whack since the church made her mistake in her handling of the galileo affair but tara chardan goes beyond that and shows that the abandonment of geocentrism was key to the promotion and the acceptance of evolutionism and instead of transcendent creator who reveals to us the nature of the universe that he made tayar gives us pantheism where god is identified with the universe and he makes the uh the through the process of death and deformity and disease and struggle for existence he makes this evolutionary process eventually produce the first human bodies it's it's nothing there's no resemblance to the faith of our fathers or to what was revealed by god from the beginning and then once you accept that the church was wrong in the galileo affair you now have the rationale to question any teaching or faith of more of faith or morals that you don't like and here's a perfect example of that we had cardinal sunans dissenting from the constant teaching of the church and natural law on the intrinsic evil of contraception telling his brother bishops look we're not taking enough account of scientific progress this is the same argument that father james martin and others use to justify the acceptance of sodomy and and every kind of uh deviation from what is right and even from the natural law and yet the good news is this is not going to continue god is not going to allow this to stand there is going to be a restoration and there have been many many saints who have testified who have prophesied saints whose writings were discerned by the church and found to be without error and whose whose lives were holy and they speak with one voice when they say that there is going to come a time after this period of apostasy and confusion when there will be a restoration of the faith and one of the great prophetic voices in the history of the catholic church was venerable bartholomew holzauser who tells us that there's going to be this period when there will be tremendous confusion in the church and disorder and and apostasy but he says that after this there's going to be a tremendous change a remarkable change he says all nations will come to worship god in the true catholic and roman faith there will be many saints and doctors on earth peace will reign over the whole earth because god will bind satan for a number of years until the days of the son of perdition and notice this what he says he says no one will be able to pervert the word of god since during the sixth period there will be an ecumenical council which will be the greatest of all councils by the grace of god by the power of the great monarch who is prophesied by many great saints and by the authority of the holy pontiff who was also prophesied by many great saints over the centuries and by the union of all the most devout catholic princes atheism and every heresy will be banished from the earth the council will define the true sense of holy scripture and this will be believed and accepted by everyone so believe it or not all this confusion is going to be cleared away and the true sense of scripture is going to be ratified once and for all and there's no doubt that that will include a categorical reaffirmation of geocentrism and of six day creation i want to just mention before i let you go because i do have to let you go i appreciate your presentation it's amazing uh the image that came to mind as you were talking near the end was the garden of eden there was a clearing in the garden where the tree of life of the tree of knowledge were and uh they were in the center of the garden so there's a symbolic value and i was also thinking about the fire of that flaming sword it was out of the east gate of the garden or the west gate where the sun rises or where the sun sets but there's that symbolism of the sun the center and then the peripheral fire of the flaming sword is there any merit to that uh parallel to that image with uh geocentrism well the the fathers always talk about eden being to the east saint basil says the priest faces out orientum because that's the direction of paradise so if that's the case then logically the flaming sword would be on the west side of paradise but i don't know if maybe in this case that's being too literal about something that the bible itself doesn't really deal with so much in in physical terms but there was a community yeah yes well the center that we have to accept as as you know in the literal and obvious sense but um when it comes to which side of the of the garden um i'm just giving you my opinion for what it's worth based on logic and what the fathers used to say about the reposition of of the garden of eden in relation to those parts of the world that people had populated so in your in your battle to get traditional catholic teachings out there into the world all parts of the world uh how much emphasis do you place on creationism versus geocentrism or is it 50 50 50 the tools in your toolkit are being used equally and with equal weight or is it mainly let's get the creationism down a geoscis geocentrism will follow or how would you define the weights of your approach to battling against the false ideas of false philosophy and bad science but i think we always try to let our lord and the blessed mother guide us because um i think our position and our sense of god's will in that matter is very different today than it was say 10 years ago i think 10 10 years ago there's absolutely no question that while most of us had already been convinced of the truth of geocentrism it was not something that we would bring up except in response to a question or an objection today the situation is different and i think that's for a number of reasons first because um we have the romans 5 20 principle where sin abounded grace abounded all the more evil is proliferating in this world in an unbelievable way but god is true to his word and he's pouring out his grace and you should see the testimonies we get from priests and lay people all over the world whose lives are being totally transformed especially be by our dvd series foundations restored so there's an awakening that's taking place among the catholic faithful and that includes the clergy all over the world and themselves i beg your pardon even in montreal because if you could send me the name of a priest in montreal that actually believes in that that would be great well i haven't gotten the testimony from the priest in montreal yet but as soon as i do you'll be the first one to know about it yeah and i'll be hitting him up he'll be my priest because you know i guess the bottom line is things are constantly changing and we have to try to be attuned to what god is doing in each in each moment and i would say that we still would put much more emphasis on the traditional doctrine of creation because that's the first article of the creed that's the absolute foundation of our faith but because the galileo affair is really at the root of the whole revolution against the traditional catholic faith we no longer see it as something that can really just be kept in the dark yeah it has to be brought out but how and when and where is something that you really have to pray your way through in order to discern correctly with each audience how to go about it yeah i appreciate your time today you took the time to talk to me i really appreciate it i do have to let you go i do want to mention though that cool i cringe i really cringe every time i hear about uh pope's apologizing for the galileo affair or hear about pope's apologizing for this or apologizing for the inquisition or for the crusades or i cringe every time i hear about an apology because uh you know of course wherever man is there's going to be that human element and there are probably many things to apologize for but i i feel that there the apologies are going above and beyond the human element and mixing up the baby with the bath water so i really i really don't feel that uh that it's appropriate to be giving a broad brush apology on a lot of these issues so i hope i hope and pray we'll come back to a church not of triumphalism not of arrogance but a church of humility whereby we recognize the truth of christ and and his teachings through the church and through the sacred deposit of faith it's really important that we have confidence in that if we're going to be followers and disciples of christ and apostles of christ absolutely did you want to close in prayer for the listeners and for myself please yes indeed in the name of the father and of the son of the holy ghost amen glory be to the father and to the son and to the holy ghost as it was in the beginning is now never shall be i'll be here world without amen amen in the name of jesus in the name of the father and of the son of the holy ghost amen amen thanks for taking the time i really appreciate i know you're busy you've got your family there and you've got your work that you're continuously working on it's amazing and uh i look forward to seeing you in heaven but before that i hope to see you again and talk to you again on the podcast uh take good care and please remember me and mine and your prayers you and yours are in mine okay thank you so much god bless bye-bye god bless thank you very much bye-bye god bless thank you very much good night