and we are live I'm here with Adrian Adrian how you doing well David thanks for taking the time thanks for uh being so spontaneous as to accept my impromptu invitation there we don't know each other we just met on Twitter but you seemed like an excellent guy and I posted some Catholic uh stuff from my uh little clips from my podcast a meta episode I did about the uh about the dogmas of the church and you corrected me and then we just started chatting and so maybe just tell myself and the listeners a little bit about yourself and how you were raised and how you came to the faith and if if you strayed from the faith and came back or what's the story ah and I only corrected your vocabulary the vocabulary spelling no nothing substantial right just the difference between uh assenting uh with our heart versus ascending you know with two s's or with the SC right right right so you know uh I'm just one of many there's there's one church right baptized into the one Church uh came out of my mom in the United States I have a U.S passport uh uh in the oldest of five uh grew up in a U.S Navy family so uh had the luxury of of entering into baptism you know at day eight and um and also you know being able to uh move around from Parish to parish and Osmos uh the diversity of our faith with you know different presiders different uh Parish flavors um different geographical preferences um and to be able to Osmos kind of those things that are similar throughout all of that you know I was mainly raised in the public school system but I spent two years inside of a Catholic School prior to First Communion um I had a dear friend of mine Christopher tombs uh that we received first communion together and he passed away shortly afterwards um so that deeply impacted me right realizing that we were United in the mystical Body of Christ in a deeply intimate and real way and that even though he passed at 9 10 years old that he and I were brothers in faith in a way that is unexplainable um you know I was confirmed in the same uh I don't know how it is in Quebec but in the Archdiocese of Washington we confirmed that 13. um and I was confirmed by Benedictine Abbott um with a very strong uh Parish catechesis program very Retreat focused very Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy focused um so there was there was a a solid preparing of the soil for the Sacrament of Confirmation where um at least for me personally um it was an adult decision to make a lifelong commitment to uh the reality of Our Lord in his church wow very mature very mature child um at 13 you said yeah right so I it was 13 year 13. yeah prior to 14. um I know a lot of diocese confirm at 16 or later um but the parish that I went to and and the habit um at that period of time had had a very deep uh Hands-On can you know Baltimore catechism focused catechesis prior to confirmation you know it was not um it was not a process right we laid hands on each other and prayed over each other we went on uh Spiritual Works of Mercy trips uh went on Retreats spent time in journaling spend time in scripture study were really encouraged to consider that this step was a lifelong defining step right um and I'm not I'm I was not unique in in that uh that cohort you know um and in the Benedictine life there is a vowel called conversatio morum have you ever been do you know conversation you you might really love looking into it yeah um it's it's the it does not have a very adequate English translation um but it's daily discipleship this conversation with life this conversation with death this uh there's a phrase in C.S Lewis's last battle that says ever higher up ever further in um and that that kind of describes that vow of conversation is um you know in in Zen Buddhism there's this concept of learning practicing forgetting so that you live it instinctively and uh you know no mind um and in a lot of ways our Catholic practice is the same way right we we consciously uh and arduously put into practice the faith in our daily life in our in our encounters so that it gets tamped down more and more you know every new every liturgical year every Advent every every Lent right we we dive into those moments loose Seasons to be able to apprehend and manifest that presence for others in that presence um in hardship you know our Catholic faith is not a faith of individual belief it's it's our faith because it's his faith right there's a I'm not sure how it is in in um you know popular Canadian culture but there's a lot of uh Protestant Faith Dynamic that kind of infiltrates Catholic catechesis in the United States um and it doesn't help that there's you know Evangelical pastors who kind of broadcast this message of things where it's you know oh his faith is strong or your faith was weak it's it's not his faith her faith my faith your faith it's the faith and it's the faith of him who Rose and the faith of him who forgave and the faith of him who is united with the father right it's his faith um and when we when we kind of meditate on that last supper discourse John 13-17 you know that one long prayer you know it's evident that Jesus is inviting us through the apostolic faith into his relationship with the father and his love for Humanity right he's calling us into joining our lives to him in his prayer for Unity in his sacrifice um and that's and that's something that that manifests itself in our daily interactions with every soul that we encounter you know um it's always him right it's always him and that that the anecdote of Easter Sunday when the two met him on the road that Emmaus encounter you know we're in mmxx III 2023 and odomete and that Emmaus encounter is our reality that that didn't end you know um but to to discover that we are actually on that Emmaus Road together and on that Emmaus Road with others who may not consider themselves practicing we may not consider themselves believers right yeah that's the difference between the Catholic Gospel and what the gospel gets deluded or mistranslated as in in the Evangelical faiths you know the Catholic Gospel is we have been saved all of us have been saved in love recognizing that all of us have been saved in love we daily are being saved right in our daily life in our encounters walking beside each other and we we hope for that day when we shall be saved we right not me Adrian and you Dave us the the the profound us the universal us right at the the profoundly um the profound hour of our father that's limited only by our own pardoned heart right in the same way that um on Yom Kippur uh our Jewish brothers and sisters gather to pray not only for the atonement of their sins but for the sins of all Humanity in the in that same way when We Gather in the Lord's Prayer And We Gather and say our father we're praying for us and for all of us you know and if the sincerity of that prayer grows deeper conversation right if the the sincerity of that prayer grows deeper than when we encounter another who's also on a journey we can sincerely say I've been praying for you right because I've been praying our I've been praying forgive us our trespasses lead us not into temptation and to be able to inhabit that sincerely um that's where the Lord shows himself you know um you know you you asked about faith journey and and ups and downs you know it's it's our own sin that draws us or repels us away from the sacramental life and it's the Lord who draws us back to his sacramental life you know it's in which goes back to Ascent ass ENT right we we uh we we consent we ascent to him drawing us back to himself to his faith right John 13 through 17 you didn't choose me I chose you and I'm calling you to go forth to love so that though you know when he's praying to the father in John 17 and says not just for these but for those who come to believe because of these right we're we're we're intimately more connected then we can even grasp throughout all of time space throughout all of time space you know the fact that our Eucharistic Gathering is the same Eucharistic Gathering of Abraham and Melchizedek is the same Eucharistic Gathering of a father who only has one piece of bread looking at the mother of his child and giving God thanks for that not saying that that is Eucharist but Christ is definitely present in that moment of gratitude of Brokenness of this is what we have and I'm grateful for the we that has it and I think that um as we enter into this third millennium of the church that that recognition that uh recognizing of we are gathered together this is food for us for our survival not just me to be able to go back and do what I want to do and you know you're either in front of me in line or behind me in line but I'm gonna you know can you reflect and get out of here right that that intimate family recognition of of being companions with each other you know etymologically the word companion means with one bread and I don't know if we in the broad sense truly appreciate the significance of that you know of being called to companionship with each other with our spouse with our children with our brothers and sisters with our pastor with our neighbor with our classmates right because if we inhabit that relationship with the Lord then in people's companionship with us whether they know it or not they're in companionship with the Lord who's in companionship with me and some of those things will only be recognized in that last moment when somebody meets the Lord face to face you know all of us all of us when in that final moment are going to see him face to face and it's those sacred moments there's you know um oh I had no idea she was praying for me oh I I had no idea that that person it's life changed because of some you know uh minuscule act that I did or said you know I didn't even know that I was moved by the Lord to do so it was instinctive but it profoundly changed the trajectory of this person's life you know it's the that tapestry of knots right so you know for me I am you know I'm not sure how it I'm I'm I'm assuming it's it's consistent you know we we live in a society of higher education that promotes promiscuity and drunkenness and free license to Rebel uh reject right and that causes a lot of spiritual damage you know there's a there's not there's nothing casual about um uniting your soul and body to somebody and then ripping it apart there's nothing casual about that right there's consequences and uh you know that's a whole other topic right yeah we touched on it briefly when you mentioned jp2 and youth day in Toronto I think did you say you came up to Toronto for that oh so yeah so at that time um how old how old would have been at that time so I was I was working with the state department in Jamaica at the time oh and um I grad had gotten my bachelor's had uh at 9 11 when when two 9 11 2001 happened I had just sworn my oath to the U.S state Department wow um the week prior and soon after that um you know with with the so help me God right yeah which I meant right um so soon after that was 9 11 and soon after that I became a daily communicate okay so I've been a daily communicant for about 20 years now nice um there's nothing to do with me right it's um we live in a world where there's so much false reality with people saying words with agendas that don't actually um respect the human person [Music] that I realized that at the mass those prayers are the linchpin of reality that with personal integrity with the uh the daily readings with the daily prayers with the daily Sacrament the daily sacrifice of the Holy Mass that that was reality capital r and um and I learned that through uh hardship and Grace right in in both both uh supremely easy ways and supremely hard ways um so you know me becoming a daily communicant has little to do with me and and more to do with realizing that that's where uh all things make sense right so I so I was able to um that was 2001 uh so I was able to go with Jamaica with with the Jamaica contingent of to Toronto um so I was one of one of 300 people 350 people we uh we landed in Toronto and did a week-long um Jesuit Retreat for the week prior to World youth day um called Anya I still have the I still have the metal right um but the week prior to World youth day we were kind of out in the woods of Ontario on a Jesuit Retreat and then the week of Toronto World youth day with John Paul was fantastic and I was what 20 23 maybe then and uh I was also blessed to be able to uh to volunteer with Walt you can talk in Cologne in 2005 with Papa benedetto huh so um yeah very very beautiful things I I was a I was a street evangelist um in hospital chaplained in Rome for a little bit um uh was able to be present for uh the death of John Paul II and and Benedict's conclave and uh also the conclave of Francis oh wow so um are you a third order uh Benedictine or no not officially um you know I was confirmed by Benedictine and and you know we all have that interior monk that interior monastic life right um we've got a lot of influences uh mainly Mother Teresa the missionaries of Charity [Music] um and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that that uh tonight tomorrow is the Feast of Elizabeth and Seton who is uh um not only a convert um but also the first canonized you know American Saint right who was very active in Maryland which is where I am right now Baltimore and she had a really beautiful story uh she she was converted in Italy at a Eucharistic profession had grown up white Anglo-Saxon Protestant right like kind of stridently anti-catholic and um and moved to Italy for her husband's health and was was converted during a Eucharistic procession in the streets right really kind of an amazing woman but uh you know our entire church has made up of amazing people who um just assented to letting Jesus live in their hearts you know Mother Teresa Elizabethan Seton Gene jughen of the Little Sisters of the Poor I don't know her no okay so when mother when Agnes gongsha became a nun and became Teresa right uh she was with with a an Irish order okay and served in India when she felt the call within the call she went and studied with the Little Sisters of the Poor to learn nursing skills and Little Sisters of the Poor was started by Jean jugan uh who was French who was a um unmarried and in the same way as Mother Teresa noticed uh the elderly poor dying in the streets and uh had some Financial substance and uh moved a woman who was dying on the street into her own bedroom and nursed her back to health while she slept in the Attic and continued to do that feeding the poor in the streets of her her Calcutta right and had sisters join her in the work and they started the Little Sisters of the Poor and if if you're familiar with um the you know what goes on politically in the United States the Little Sisters of the Poor have been a very strong pro-life uh voice inside of the politics of of this abortion War that's going on right now you know in in Canada right now is is working on the other end of euthanasia and you know there's there's some very there's some very dire things happening right now in North America um but so some other Teresa is like a little sister of the little sisters right um they always had that characteristic blue and white uh garb yeah so the Little Sisters of the Poor wear gray habits okay um but yeah mysteries of Charity Mother Teresa's sisters and the have the white and blue sorry right um so yeah beautiful woman it always touched me when she would talk Mother Teresa would talk about the poorest people that she knows of are the wealthy Americans because they're destroying their young and that's there's no there's nothing more uh poverty stricken than that she's so powerful Mother Teresa it's amazing yeah yeah she when she passed away I was when she passed away I was still in the University and um that impacted me deeply and and and brought me back to uh the mass um in addition to friends that were like yo you're lost you got to come back to mass right but but when Mother Teresa passed away um I guess the the prayer of my heart was who will rise to stand in her place right like um so I I had the I had the the honor of being in Rome for her beatification with John Paul for his 25th pontificate um I had the honor of being at the con canonization [Music] um of staying with the seminarians in Tijuana Mexico for a little bit um and they do some amazing work uh in Tijuana and um but I mean there's missionary charity houses everywhere I know that there's one in Quebec I know that there's one in St bon in Winnipeg I visited them yeah um yeah you know but but all of us are called to see that um poverty of spirit around us right there's a in the same way that you said right like that Poverty of not knowing that we're impoverished right um you know who Helen Keller is yeah so there's a beautiful Helen Keller quote that says uh what what a what a pitiful thing to be born sighted but to lack vision and and I think in that same way you know what what a Pity to be born into the faith and be blind to the faith right to what a Pity to to be born into the reality of Emmanuel and fail to recognize him in our neighbors you know what uh what a Pity to have access to the fond of life and to thirst right and that's you know the crucifix of Mother Teresa has our Lord crucified with the the phrase I thirst okay right he he thirsts for us we thirst for him right so conversation can you can you talk a little bit about the Jesuit spirituality because it's something I'm interested in I do the examine prayer every night while I'm in bed I just do a quickie version of it just an examination of conscience and trying to look for The Graces uh it's like an Easter egg hunt trying to find The Graces of that day and the sins of that day and just uh sort of contemplating my day I'm not good at it um but I just sort of do it out of habit when I'm in bed um I have a few devotions I try not to keep adding more because I've been Catholic now since 2009 and uh you know it's just it's fun to keep adding devotions but it takes away from the quality if you have too much quantity so I'm trying to limit myself but the examine is a very quick thing that I do in bed at night and I love Saint Ignatius of Loyola and Pope Francis is a Jesuit is that right yes that's true so can you just talk a little bit about your understanding of Jesuit spirituality and what you learned in that Retreat you did a one week Retreat before the uh Toronto thing yeah and then when I was living in Jamaica uh Kingston diocese is one of the retirement grounds for the Boston Jesuits ah I was surrounded by a lot of uh really just quality quality older clergy that took into their wing um really fantastic guys um did you know that Ignatius lived in a cave for a while no ah yeah so so you might enjoy reading a book of his life uh yeah there is there's a period after his conversion his reconversion his explosion of Faith right that he ended up becoming a Hermit and living in a cave for a little bit and uh came out with long hair all tangled and knotted with fingernails that were you know four inches long and uh had this profound like Christ awareness right and uh walked into a hospital like uh like Bigfoot and was like oh let me help here and couldn't understand why the hospital was hesitant to let him be a chaplain um and it was soon after that that he got the companions of Jesus so Society of Jesus SJ right the Jesuits um are their their order is the companions of Jesus right so everything that we talked about earlier in this conversation about companionship is incredibly vital to to discussing you know Jesuit spirituality and and um and whether or not participants in the Society of Jesus are are evidencing that well it's a controversial thing I mean all the conspiracy theories and all that I take that all with a big grain of salt just like you hear people bashing uh Mother Teresa it's just like there's a lot of anti-catholic nonsense that we have to put up with so I take the conspiracy theories with a grain of salt but I also know we live in a fallen world and that there are wolves among the sheep and that there are weeds among the wheat and that some men are religious Hypocrites today just as much as in Jesus day so I I am in before right yeah oh yeah since the fall um there's something there's something very real about that prayer during our Eucharistic Gathering where we say and for those whose Faith you alone know right glory to God in the highest peace to people on earth right is uh there's something about realizing that God's intimately aware of the state of others and calls all of us closer right what would be to us if we say oh you know they are not us right when it's always us right I had a really really interesting confession once with the Polish priest I don't know if you know this or not but Baltimore is the site of the second Miracle of Saint faustina no I didn't know that um yeah I learned it relatively recently too right it's not something well known but uh um but that church is in Baltimore proper and uh I went to confession once and and and and kind of spoke about family wounds and uh the Polish priest there said uh every Apple that falls from the tree falls from the same tree right so in that same way if we can see that that in another Apple we might taste the same way right so one thing I took him out at night could you take him out later okay um you know the that that so that that companionship that um is so close to Jesuit spirituality right [Music] um the examine the examined prayer you know when we when we start the mass and we say I confess to almighty God you know in my thoughts in my words and what I have done and what I have failed to do right through my fault my most Grievous hope right where we actually actively ask the people that were with there to pray for us I'm not sure we recognize that we actually do that but we're actually doing that right like we're we're actually asking the people to take time to pray for us right then right and in that same way at Mass do we take 10 seconds or to pray for the people that are there also right we're saying it we're asking for it are we doing it right um but yeah that that the judging habit of examining at night taking inventory in the morning right very consistent with 12-step spirituality right there's a lot of Jesuit influences and 12-step recovery oh yeah um Bill and Bob were reformed by Jesuit spiritual directors when they were getting the 12 steps of recovery together okay um there's actually a society called the calyx Society c-a-l-i-x it's an international Society of Catholics who are in recovery or who are affected by alcoholism and addiction um so that's a that's a beautiful Fellowship uh also there's a there's a lot of things about that conversation of our Catholic faith of that judge would examine of that is consistent with kind of this life of recovery the spiritual recovery of what was lost right um there's a there's a prayer that that uh my Jesuit spiritual director taught me he passed away a long time ago he he retired in Kingston but he had served in Iraq uh for a long time and uh it's it's the uh the anima Christie you know the anima Christie yeah yeah dude but they the Boston Jesuits had a very interesting English translation of it okay um the soul of Christ be my salvation Body of Christ be my sanctification blood of Christ to fill all my veins water from thy side wash out my stains o Passion of Christ my comfort be o good Jesus listen to me within your wounds I long to hide never to be parted from my side guard me when the foe sails me call me when my life should fail me bid me come to thee above that with thy Saints I may sing my love in a World Without End nice yeah it's beautiful right can I I see if I can remember how I say mine because I have a certain context for prayer where I can't usually access it but I say soul of Christ make me holy Body of Christ be my salvation blood of Christ let me drink your wine water flowing from the side of Christ wash me clean Passion of Christ strengthen me kind Jesus hear my prayer hide me within your wounds and keep me close to you um what does it have a sex how many people come for me Comfort me what does he say next let me keep it close to you defend me at the hour of death and call me uh into the company of Life Saints so that I may sing your praise with them forever um I might be messing that up but I think that's pretty much it do you see it in English or French I say it in English I don't speak French by choice I only speak French when I have to ah yeah the the Latin the Latin translation and the Spanish translation are very easy Rhymes right uh okay okay but uh I really I really like the uh and there's there's so many good and there's some gems there's some gems in that prayer though that I really love meditating on especially you know um you know hide me within your wounds I love that imagery of hiding within the wounds of Christ because the demons aren't gonna they're not gonna get you if you're hidden in the wounds of Christ and just uh drinking the blood I belong to the confraternity of the precious blood so drinking in the blood of Christ that's a nice image and I've read different English translations of that prayer um I can't remember how I settled on this particular one I think it was just the first one that I encountered but there's so many gems in that and there's so many beautiful traditional set prayers that I pray every day but I have to admit that is one of my favorites for sure hmm power what what what brought you so were you baptized in 2009 no I was unfortunately well fortunately or unfortunately I was baptized as a child into a very liberal Protestant Christian Community called the United Church of Canada which which today has ordained atheist ministers and so it's gone right off the rails um but I was it a trinitarian baptism yeah yeah that's why that's why I was not able it was valid so I'm not able to get re-baptized so um at the age 14 I lost my faith after having had a beautiful dream about Jesus where you know up until age 14 I was very not very devote but I was Pious just in a naive simple unthinking way as it I wasn't a very bright child but um at age 14 puberty hit and I lost my faith I remember the exact day I lost my faith and then for 25 years I was atheist and then through studying philosophy seeking the truth I found God and I still hated Christ and his church because I've been an Atheist for so long and that was just cult the culture of atheism is to hate God but in particular to hate Jesus Christ and Christianity so I was reluctant to join Christianity but it was just impractical to be a Muslim or I didn't really believe in Muhammad or the Quran and I thought it was Impractical to be a Jew because I thought it was more of a hereditary cultural thing where he had to be Jewish to be a Jew and so I read just by happenstance someone gave me a book it was the confessions of Saint Augustine and I just fell in love with Christianity I fell in love with Catholicism and I'd studied enough philosophy to know that Catholicism was the church that Christ built right that's why I hated that's why I hated the Catholic Church more than the Baptist or the Presbyterian or any other church I hated the Catholic Church the most because they knew that that they had the apostolic secession I knew what claims they made I knew they claimed infallibility and ineffectibility and all these sorts of things which the other churches don't dare do so I knew it was Catholicism and once I read the confessions of Saint Augustine I was fully in I just fully embraced it but it wasn't reading it wasn't reading the confessions that really did it for me it was going attending a mass because I was at work one day and a monk walked in and it's just Providence this monk walked in and I asked him if I could come and talk to him at his Monastery about about God because I was a generic monotheist I didn't believe in the Incarnation I didn't believe even in the Trinity but he said sure and so we he just started instructing me and uh but when he took me to the mass on day one uh I said I want in I want in I even though I don't believe in the Incarnation I don't believe even in the Trinity I I want in because you are worshiping my God and this is beautiful and there was something mystical and there was something Supernatural that Drew me and so I I studied with this Monk and he became a priest he was studying to become a priest while he was teaching me to become a Catholic and so I did that for several months I can't remember how many months it was the church did you say it's the fraternity monastic de Jerusalem so it's a modern day fraternity out of Paris France which is all about Urban care so they live in cities they work in cities they're self-sustaining uh because everyone works part-time and they have a devotion well they have a Devotion to the Blessed Sacrament obviously but they uh their main focus is on healing cities and uh the the monastery was situated right across from uh pornographic uh store where they sell all kinds of sex toys and lingerie and these sorts of things they're all over Quebec these uh pornographic stores so they would be constantly praying for them and for anyone else and for all the sin you know the just the sin that's rampant here in Canada and not to mention the lack of faith that's rampant since the 60s there's something called The Quiet Revolution here in Quebec where the church was ostensibly too involved in politics and too dominant too rigid and severe and the people rebelled and they shook off the faith and they're they're struggling ever since so that's called the uh revolucion tranquil and it's it's been really damaging and so we've got condos now that are turned into con churches that are turned into condominiums on every other Street and there's so many beautiful churches here but they're all in disrepair they're all neglected and my Parish that I used to live by is now merging with another pair perish and this is happening all over the place we're really in crisis in Quebec there's so much there's so much that you just said um do you know what rule that order that fraternity follows do they follow augustinian role or Benedictine rule I'm pretty sure they have their own um blessed he's not a saint yet but there's this man who started the order and he made his own rule it's a very very modern thing which uh you know made me a little bit skeptical of the order but I wasn't there to join the order I was just there to join the church but uh you can you can look into them yeah the the FMJ it's the fraternity monastic Jerusalem you can look into them they have a very beautiful liturgy they do a high mass they always have brothers and sisters that are chanting and it's very beautiful and uh I have no criticism of them the only skepticism I have is that it's not an ancient order it's a new order and that just automatically just puts my guard up a little bit but I I don't have any reason to do with them this is why this is why I'm asking because I I would I would lean towards them being a a newer Community that's actually using an older role possibly possibly yeah you know it's interesting um I uh I was Discerning for a long time with an order called MSA the missionaries of the Holy Apostles okay um and uh they have a they have a seminary that a College and Seminary in Connecticut but they were founded by I'm yeah yeah yeah so their founder uh was yussebe Menard okay uh the USA Bay is like a French Canadian first name uh and he was an ofm he was a Franciscan who felt called just like Mother Teresa you know had a call within a call right um you said me Menard was a was a Franciscan who was given permission to start a society of priests that minister to families and other priests um and uh so there's a there's a bot there's a section of that Community that's in Montreal um and he also started in the U.S and then others have joined you know uh internationally um but yeah the mission MSA missionaries of uh Santa apostoli right yeah I see yeah I see him on my screen here I've got him marked as ofm is that a different order that he used to be part of or is that yeah so ofm is the franciscans okay right um and so he never left the franciscans okay I see I see Reverend Yvonne or Shambo he's an MSA he's writing something here about him yeah so MSA was his Heritage he left this uh what is the order actually called he said the Holy Apostles okay yeah oh interesting very interesting yeah the I told you I belonged to the uh confraternity of the uh the precious blood that was actually started by a Quebec was woman who who went down to New York and she founded this order um and so it's sisters who adore the precious blood and I have actually have the manual here because you can see that yeah yeah you know there's there's in in in the Evangelical Church in the Pentecostal Church and there's only one church right yeah there's only one Church and there's a lot of disciples and a lot of believers who don't recognize that they have not been invited into the fullness of the church but um you know in the same way uh there's a a deep spiritual awareness of pleading the blood of Jesus right um not just in the Eucharistic you know receive me and and I receive you right but in this um spiritual warfare you know battle of Mother Catherine Aurelia yeah yeah yeah the sisters adores of the precious blood this is a beautiful beautiful little uh thing of prayers I do these prayers every day and it's part of my morning and evening ritual but there's so many there's so many calling fraternities I also belong to the confraternity of the Rosary because I'm struggling to pray my Rosary every day but I do pray it not well but I do pray at every most days um the requirements there's no penalty of sin in the confraternity but you as long as you pray it one complete Rosary a week that satisfies your obligation but there's also that community that they emphasize where you're part of this confraternity and we're making up for those who are maybe having a day where they're not pulling their weight sort of sort of thing so there's that that community and confraternity that you mentioned and the other uh there's uh yeah so there's so many confraternities to to belong to and I'm just trying not to go overboard and get too deeply involved in too many devotions right because I've already I've already got too many set prayers for the day and I I tend to I tend to pray rapidly which is a bad habit because I'm just busy with other things in my life and especially if I'm on holidays and I can do whatever I want to do praying is not a priority I just want to relax and go on holidays so that's a that's a Temptation yeah and you know we run the risk of it becoming a list of to Do's exactly exactly and uh you know you being Faithfully married to a specific person for you know three decades you know that you know there's a there's a depth of intimacy that comes from doing one thing deeply well yeah that's the right time that's the best analogy that's the absolutely the best analogy and the honeymoon honeymoon period is well and truly over with my conversion story because I was like riding on the pink Cloud for 10 the first 10 years and then the past three years have been challenging for me uh I would say because of covet but I would I would attribute it also to God's Providence he's going to give me so he's going to start slowly taking away some of the consolations and I think that's to be expected I've read Saint Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross and so I know what to expect and God's being very gentle with me because I'm very weak spiritually and in every way so God's being very very gentle I'm not getting some Dark Night of the Soul or anything heavy like that but just slowly slowly he's pulling away some of the consolations and seeing letting me know just how weak I am and it's it's humbling it's very embarrassing and well no what's you know what's interesting about that brother is that there's there's moments where I mean all our Lord became more human than we'll ever fathom because he allowed himself to be human in ways that we [Music] we've we failed to fully appreciate our Humanity right sure for sure um God's glory is man Fully Alive and there's only one man that did it that's Christ well and he calls all of us into that right in him with him and through him well but I think what I was trying to say was there's moments where it's not a real it's not a taking away of consolation it's it's more of a hey please recognize that this is what I have been carrying for you and I'm I'm gently laying it back on your shoulders yeah so that you remember what it is that I'm daily carrying for you yeah and Saint Peter is pretty explicit in his letters that when we go through that it's the Lord Opening Our Eyes to seeing and Wrecking recognizing [Music] that suffering in others around us yeah okay right because when we are able to orally corporally and spiritually alleviate the suffering of others that's when we find him carrying us right so you're talking about passion leading to calm passion it goes back to that Buddhist thought of no mind that we were talking about right where you're practicing it mindfully kind of obsessively but then you let go of it because it's not you practicing it that made it happen yeah yeah right yeah it's he's he's the Mover we're the responder yeah right it's not us knocking on the door it's him knocking on our door yeah right Bliss is the constant uh struggle I have with prayer trying to be receptive trying to be passive and trying to remember what's happening is I'm being Sanctified by Grace right and um letting it wash over me and not being in control and the analogy I like to use is just before my conversion in 2009 I had an accident I broke my wrist and I had to do the two surgeries I had to go to therapy for like a year six months or whatever it was and uh she kept telling me the the physiotherapist kept telling me okay now give me your wrist okay now relax your wrist because she's going to manipulate my wrist right she's like relax your wrist and I'm like yeah go ahead I'm relaxed she's like no you have to relax the muscles in your wrist I'm like yeah I'm relaxed she's like no you have to relax the muscles in your wrist I wasn't able to do it okay I was not able to do I don't know how to relax I'm a nervous guy but it's the same thing that's a Perfect Analogy in the hands of God like God's saying okay you can relax now David I I got you I'm gonna manipulate you I'm gonna make you into a saint and I'm like well I don't know how to relax you know that's the basic predicament that I I feel like I'm in as uh there's you know that in in our you know only the Lord really knows you know we we we communicate um as best as possible Right like eve even with a even with a full desire for a Vulcan mind meld it's still inadequate right yeah yeah but but there there's definitely moments you know in and you know the last 30 years of of trying to practice the faith you know where just laying down and surrendering and saying Lord you have just cover me and heal what you need to heal you know you're the doctor you know and and you know in the same way the sacrament of confession is is not a list a checklist of wrong things right like we generally speaking universally we're catechetically ignorant of even of confessing sins of omission yeah right like I I I I've never I've never confessed a sin of a mission in my life ah I I would be very interested the next time you go to confession yeah of you confessing that you have failed to confess I mean there's there's been times where I've gone to confession where I have confessed that I'm sorry that I'm not sorry hmm but God meets us where we are you know I I had a I had a life-changing confession once when I came back from serving in Jamaica and this is so this is after I've been a daily communicate and there's you know there's family adult child of alcoholic stuff there's family you know Dynamic stuff there's you know worldly perception stuff you know but you know our Lord was our Lord was crucified by politicians and church members right like it wasn't just Judas that let him go like all 12 dropped the ball all 12 dropped the ball right there's a bumper sticker that said Lord save me from your followers there's some truth to that and um and I had gotten run ragged um you know I mainly by people that pull a paycheck with the name Jesus right um and and I went to confession and I said you know that I've I've suffered abuse from the hands of people in the church you know with callers and without collars right and and that was filled with the Holy Spirit or or well you know however however one wants to communicate that phase and um you know there is a real Temptation you know do you leave and become a non-denominational pastor and you just throw it all in you know that's no I'm going to confession about this because I know that the sacramental life of Our Lord is real and the priest in in God's wisdom right because it's the Lord that's in control of that sacramental conversation right the the priest in in God's wisdom said do not fault the Church of Jesus that is one and holy and Catholic and Apostolic for the misdeeds and failings of broken people within that one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and um you know that that was that was a renewed kind of lifelong commitment you know and and uh I don't know if you're familiar with the consecration to the Sacred Heart or the reparation to the Sacred Heart but there's there's something deeply moving about that where um to paraphrase it's a it's a rededication of self to the Sacred Heart recognizing that we were in the church and causing damage in the church and that now that we're aware of that we're doubling down and praying for those in the church that are doing the same thing right and that any suffering that we endure to be disciples in a a large boat of drowning people that you know we will be the example of healing for others that are in in but still hurting right and which is still you know completely consistent with recovery spirituality also right like you have a a group of Alcoholics everyone's still an alcoholic right you have a group of addicts everyone's still an addict everybody's still one drink away from Death Or destruction everyone's still one hit away from death and destruction right so we're all in a and and I I don't know if I don't know if Catholics practice practicing Catholics apprehend their faith in that same way you know of of it being um sobriety by grace right um we talk about a Holiness a lot it's not our holiness it's the Holy One and by Grace We're receiving Holiness from the Holy One right there's a I'll send you a link to the first sermon that Pope Francis said to the Cardinals of the Sistine Chapel and uh I was there right um but in it you'll you'll like it it's it's essentially saying you know we can be in the church and we can be ordained as priests Bishops deacons right but if we don't daily fall at the foot of the cross we don't daily commit ourselves to a life with Jesus then it doesn't mean anything right it's a daily diving into right a daily baptism a daily right affirmation and that's just that goes back with your your nightly examine right like well now I lay me down to sleep but Lord you know I'm help me be cognizant of how I can be me in you better tomorrow yeah it is it is it is rather embarrassing uh some of my prayers but I every night I pray to God I say make this my best ever daily exam and prayer and in the back of my mind I'm thinking [Laughter] face because you know it's true I want that's what I want um and I also say give me Vision give me a vision so that I can see the grace and I can see the sin in my life Give me the give me a natural vision and give me a supernatural Vision so that I can see because that's what it's all about I have to I have to be able to see reality to choose reality I have to be able to see reality and you were talking about the veil that covers Us sort of in the church we're not aware of how to distinguish the baby from the bath water and the baby is the beautiful baby Jesus and the bath water is the stinking excrement that we Fallen humans in this Fallen World are just bathing in without even being able to distinguish the baby from the bathwater so it taught to me it's all about that mystical Dimension where we can join with the mystical Body of Christ so that we can rise with him and get out of the muck and the mire and you know we were chatting about the uh Saint John Paul II and his um I mentioned the Theology of the Body and you know connected with that in this world today we're in such need of it because of pornography and just the the way we're encouraging young children to look act and think like Horrors men and women alike it's it's deep and it's dark the muck and the mire that we're in is deep and it's dark and it touches me it affects me and it always has my whole life long since uh I was very young so it's not uh it's not like religious people are exempt from the the muck in the mire or any of the the stuff that's taking place in this in this sick Fallen World but there is that mystical Dimension where we can we can recognize the one reality which is God and His Mercy Mercy and his Beauty and we can join ourselves to that not by our own effort not by our efforts but just by a will just to say yes to the grace and to cooperate more and more with The Graces of God well you know it's interesting that you mentioned that you know we were talking about our Lord becoming our Lord becoming more human than we allow ourselves to be right um I mean there's so many things that we are are deliberately in ignorance of right we're deliberately actively ignoring truth right um but there's so much of our society that is transactional prostitution yep you know in our careers in our friendships in our intimate relationships you know whether it be inside of the construct of marriage or outside of the construct of marriage you know our um our our daily decision and this isn't this is in the 21st century problem I mean this this is a human human thing right but in a lot of ways you know we are uh you know there's other other cultures and other communities did not have the luxury of being able to ignore their neighbors starving yeah or be able to ignore their neighbors domestic abuse yeah or be able to ignore their neighbors uh whatever illness right well we we you know we we live in ignorance of neighbor yeah and then Pat ourselves in the back for loving our neighbor that we choose to right but um but there's a lot of there's so much of our life in in in North America at least right that um stems from Human Trafficking stems from subjugation of other people stems from a caste system of education or wage slavery or um land ownership or industrial Heritage you know and and all of us you know have have fallen into at some point in our life this you know um definition of self-worth being monetary or the definition of self-worth being um being valued by somebody else status yeah right which goes back to what I think is at the root of the confraternity of the precious blood right every human soul is worth the price of God himself taking our place you know it's not you know this is probably for another conversation but we were talking about you know that that thing that's called hate or that thing that's called rejection or that thing that's called protest right but in a lot of ways you know the um you know a child that has a splinter in their finger right you have to take the splinter out in order for it to heal right and this and this goes back to the wrist and the physiotherapy right you know you have to let me immobilize in order to remove in order for the healing to begin right and it comes to surrender it comes to to literal surrender of of self right um which that's a that's a it's a difficult thing to vocalize in an even more difficult thing to manifest um because we we live in a society where we Define ourself by vilifying other or separating self from other you know um we do that in our marriages we do that in our relationships with our parents or our relationship with our siblings our relationship with you know those people who aren't being disciples right or um me I'm not being a disciple right because I'm not like those people and all of it is um distorting the reality of God With Us you know and it doesn't matter if if you know you and I write a fifty thousand dollar check and give it to a charity yesterday if we walk past someone today who's looking at a trash can for something to eat because God's not going to say to us oh thanks for writing that check right he's going to say I was there and you walked past me it's a brain there's a beautiful poem um maybe I'll read it to you it's an Anglican poem I believe now let me see if I can find it here one moment please and that we will have to wrap it up because my wife is home but I want to read you this poem first it's my friend is in uh rehab his name is Matthew Murdock you can pray for him if you don't mind because he's going through a hard time he was he's divorced he's lost everything because of drugs and uh you know he's he's been struggling with his faith for ever since I've known him for past five six years but he's now saying you know I'm broken I'm coming back and I'm hopefully this is the last time I'll fall into the the nastyness yes will you please look up calic Society yeah yeah I'll send them the link I'll send them the link there's this beautiful poem I think it may have been written by um an Anglican it's called indifference the poet's name is Jeffrey Studdard Kennedy and the reason I heard of it was because um Fulton Sheen recited it he was fond of reciting it and I'm not going to be able to recite it beautifully The Way Fulton Sheen did but uh it says when Jesus came to Golgotha they hanged him on a tree they drove Great Nails through his hands and feet and made a Cavalry they crowned him with a crown of thorns red were his wounds and deep for those were crude and cruel days and human flesh was cheap it was cheap when Jesus came to Birmingham they simply passed him by they would not hurt a hair of him they only let him die for men had grown more tender and they would not give him pain they only just passed down the street and left him in the rain still Jesus cried forgive them they know not what they do and still it rained the winter rain that drenched him through and through the crowds went home and left the streets without a soul to see and Jesus crouched against a wall and cried for Calvary full machine pray for us yeah amazing very powerful stuff so that's what we're up against what's the name of that poem because I've indifference indifference yeah I can send you I can send it to you oh no you you don't know how deeply I I already you know folding folding machines rendition of that it's amazing it's powerful it's amazing and uh but I had always thought that the name of the poem was Jesus came to Birmingham I thought that was the name too I've I've I looked it up recently for my friend and they gave it the the title indifference but yeah I always thought it was called when Jesus came to Birmingham yeah that's amazing amazing that um the first time that I actually encountered that was was right when all [ __ ] fell apart in 2019 2020. and uh deeply God I love fold machines but he's a blessed right venerable venerable [Music] um but uh no but that same that same catholicity of Gene jughen and Mother Teresa is there right yeah the the kind of uh discipleship call of Simon of Cyrene and Veronica not just the on the sidelines but the ones that jumped up to help right and um I heard I heard something really beautiful the the a couple weeks ago um I I'm I'm gravitating towards a trinitarian parish right my uh then taking part of the Care team of my elderly Grandma right now my maternal grandma and um but you know Barnabas or you know uh uh Zacchaeus right the the the man of short stature who climbed the tree right so tradition and this is you know this is the first time I've heard this tradition is that Zacchaeus number one is Matthias huh right and number two was the spouse of Veronica wow contents that uh and that was the first time I'd ever heard that before was that tradition says that Veronica and Zacchaeus were were married which is uh kind of a fascinating thing to let's do you know and um and what hammered at home for me was the sermon was when the pre and when the priest was said you know Zacchaeus went out on a limb for the Lord and a week later his wife did the same um prayers for prayers for your wife uh prayers for your friend Matt m and uh let me this is very good I'm glad we'll definitely talk again it's a joy and a pleasure to meet you I have someone in the live chat who said something very strange his name is Skyler the Creator he says I will subscribe if you passionately preach the teachings of Genghis Khan to homeless children on the Sabbath day so I don't know if this is an atheist mocking religion or what it is or if he's just some strange guy no idea what he's what he's talking about what's your reaction to what he said I don't have a reaction to it it's nonsense and then I'll have to read it later I'm I'm incredibly I'm incredibly grateful for the this sincere interaction right now David yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm very happy to meet you I'm uh uh I'm happy to have a new friend in Christ and uh we'll definitely talk again I'll have you back again and we'll uh dig deeper into all things Catholic and you can tell me about the trinitarian order is that what it is it's the trinitarians who founded them do you remember John DeMatha okay and his uh his pre-vatican II feast day was February 8th um but they uh oh you might really you might really enjoy looking into them they they're an international order with a long history of freeing people of that were human trafficked oh it's okay um so not just not just slave uh not just people sold into captivity right or like right right now what's going on in throughout Africa you know clerics and religious are being abducted and held for ransom right um but also uh uh with women in sex trafficking so the osst the order of the Most Holy Trinity the trinitarians um aren't a kind of below the radar heavily active in um in the active liberation of people in human trafficking throughout the world and have been for you know 800 plus years so um yeah Saint John DeMatha and the trinitarians they're a really fantastic order oh definitely look into it I belong to uh the uh confraternity of Saint uh Peter which is connected with the sspx I don't know if you're familiar with them more of a traditional uh Catholic group but they're in Union with Roman with the Pope yeah so um and the scallop readings is another one that I'm connected with the scalabrinians the missionary fathers of Saint Charles boromeo the scalabrinians they help missionaries yeah yeah that's another one I'm involved with and I like I told you I I enroll all of my guests whether they like it or not in to that league and there's a Perpetual mass that you and your family will be benefiting from so that includes you and your parents and your siblings and your wife and your children stuff like that so um there's so much depth and richness in the church we're so spoiled in the Catholic church and when I talked to Protestants I want to sort of show them gently uh how much they're missing out by not being in the fullness of the faith not to rub their noses but just to let them know there's so much more there's so much more well you know you know in Acts of the Apostles um of Saint Apollos you know the story of Saint Apollos it rings a bell so Saint Apollos um was pastoring having only known the baptism of John the Baptist okay and the the Disciples of the Lord pulled him aside and said hey you're right on but you're missing some things so come and stay with us for a little bit right and um so there's only one Church and the world is full of faithful believers who are miscatechized and have not encountered the Lord in the sacramental life yet right so there's very few people that are actually Protestant aside from that thing in our human heart that reviles and protests right and and that that thing in our heart that reviles and protests is what our Lord sanctifies with his saving blood but every human heart has it right every every human mind has that you know we we all mutually crucified him right we all mutually rejected him and uh so it's just it's interesting to find that that there are people that are in quote Protestant faiths that are Catholic and don't know it yet absolutely absolutely so to be continued thank you so much for taking the time it's a pleasure to meet you and uh please pray for me in mine and I'm going to be uh messaging you on Twitter from time to time we'll keep in touch and we'll definitely talk again soon on the podcast too we've got so much more to share yeah and then this was this was a a sincere answer to prayer from a couple hours ago really appreciate it nice nice I am in the back of my in the back of my head and I I kind of you know God knows all things right but I was like I don't know who you need I don't know I don't know who you're sending to reach out to me but I need someone to reach out Ah that's why that's why when I reached out to you said oh may I ask why you reached out to me yeah yeah yeah no because like literally 10 seconds before I had like thrown that up out there you know okay sincerely and and uh you know all glory be to the father and to the son and to the Holy Spirit as it was in the beginning it is now and will be forever amen amen thank you so much I love you my brother we'll talk soon sincere God bless