cool yes we are live i'm here i'm back here with rebecca how are you doing rebecca oh great thanks for having me on again david so excited to have you back again we were just talking before going live and uh you said some powerful prayers i really appreciate your friendship and your faith and uh it's just been wonderful meeting you and i have to thank i guess i have to thank brenda because brenda is the one that sent me sent me your way yes thank you brenda you made a great connection here i've really been enjoying um getting to know you david and being on your channel it's been a lot of fun and having you on my channel that was great too i loved hearing your story yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean it was a it was an hour and a half and you get a little a few little insights into the journey of a person in an hour and a half but there's so much more obviously as you you know we were just talking before going live here and you see a little bit more different aspects and stuff like this so much to a person yeah you've been married how many years now 18. so you know what it's like to discover layers and layers and layers and get surprises oh really you like bergamot i didn't know that whatever just like you get to know someone and find out about their childhood little snippets and stuff like that it's it's fun right yeah it's great it's a wonderful journey and that's what it's like i feel like knowing god and you know learning about god a little bit as you go because i feel like there's been different stages in my spiritual journey and like different ways that i was able to connect with god at those times and like i see looking back on my journey like different times when i was hindered by ideas that i had and just how god has been faithful to kind of lead me along take me by the hand and teach me his ways so yeah wow an adventure never ending adventure and today we're talking because you said hey it's pentecost sunday let's talk about the holy spirit and i know you know they're you're sort of evangelical maybe pentecostal i don't know what all those terms are but i certainly consider myself an evangelical i consider myself a pentecostal i consider myself a baptist i consider myself all these things because these are all christian things right the good news pentecost these are all christian things baptism these are all christian things so they belong to me or or rather i belong to them so uh that it's funny when you when you look in the phone book at the different christian churches and read the names sometimes they're hyphenated things together like evangelical pentecostal or whatever i don't know what the the groupings are but they'll say church of god well yeah i belong to the church of god church of christ yeah i belong to church of christ so it's funny looking at the the night the names that are chosen for these different christian communities and how the emphasis might be placed on them but certainly pentecost is a big big deal and uh i really enjoyed the the service today and uh i have some i have some ideas about pentecost and the holy spirit um that i can get into but first i'd sort of like to hear what you had in mind when you invited me to talk about the holy spirit today yeah well and i can't wait to hear your thoughts about pentecost um for me it's just a great time to celebrate and remember the holy spirit and he's often um overlooked really he's often kind of forgotten about i mean we we will talk about you know the spirit led me this and and that but but often i feel like the event of the holy spirit coming upon humanity and you know just us becoming one through the holy spirit is it's kind of something that gets like forgotten so i like have made a commitment to really celebrate pentecost and to pay attention to it and so um i was just really excited to be on your channel today in particular because i could do this on my channel but my channel is is not nearly as holy and sacred of his face as your channel so i just i didn't feel like exposing um the holy spirit of course the holy spirit is always exposed to this blasphemy but i mean i didn't want to talk about these sacred ideas on my channel today i felt like this was a a much better place and i was excited to talk about him with you yeah well it's fun you know it's it's the same for me because um not all of my guests are christian as you know and uh even those who are christian it's just the chemistry isn't always good you know so um yeah it's just a special it's a special thing that uh that we can come together we can talk and by happenstance or by providence we met and we can talk about christian things and we can get excited about it and you can get me excited about things i hadn't thought about before and probably vice versa but um yeah the the holy spirit i agree with you you know i feel a little bit guilty that i neglect the holy spirit i'm all about god the father and jesus and god the father and jesus and you know sort of bounce between the two like oh no i didn't forget about you jesus and then oh don't worry god's father didn't forget about you but yeah i did forget about the holy spirit though that's always the way it's always a way for me but you know i do i do pray i don't pray as often as i should directly to the holy spirit but i certainly ask for the gifts of the holy spirit and the fruits of the holy spirit every day that's one of my favorite prayers so uh i i'm asking for all the good gifts and and the fruits do you know what they are oh yeah of course and i i love um i love the works of the holy spirit and actually for those who are watching who might not be christian and may be wondering like what pentecost is maybe we should just talk about yeah what happened right now there is a grand total of zero people watching but that doesn't matter we're gonna get [Music] it'll climb from zero all the way up to thirty or forty so really yeah okay it's a very very wildly unpopular podcast that's what i like to say but the nice thing about the internet is it's just gonna sit there it's just gonna sit there it's just gonna sit there and then if one person this is the way this is what i tell god it's like i'm not about quantity i don't care um and a lot of the uh catholic apologists that i see that have millions of views and all this sort of thing i just don't agree with what they're saying what they're doing and how they're how they're portraying uh my faith so that's not always the case but it's not about quantity it's about quality and i always say to god like if i could help one person or if i could be instrumental in giving your graces uh distributing your graces or whatever it is um that's more than enough you know imagine if you could save one soul well that would cover a multitude of my sins if i could be instrumental not that i'm doing it but i'm instrumental if i could be a channel for the holy spirit to actually uh be instrumental in the conversion of a sinner wow it's pretty amazing right i'm sure that you have been david yeah right i hope so i hope so i'll find out on judgment day as i often say but yeah yeah better not to know better not to know in this life because then what would jesus say well you've had your reward okay you got the fanfare you got you got the thank yous better to wait better than it takes yeah well um for those who may watch in the future who are not familiar with pentecost um you know after when jesus was getting ready to ascend to heaven he told his disciples wait in jerusalem until the gift that i promised you the gift from the father is coming and i'm i'm paraphrasing so this isn't an exact quote but he said wait and and so the the disciples waited in jerusalem and on the day of pentecost which was a day of celebration that was part of the the mosaic covenant it was it was a day that was celebrated in um you know israel's history and in in their religion and but it was it was a day of the harvest right and so pentecost for us is also a day of harvest and you're getting ready to hear why so as the disciples were together in jerusalem and they were praying together all of a sudden a uh like a mighty rushing wind came into the room and it was the holy spirit coming upon them and the holy spirit rested on each one of them and they spoke in other languages um people who had gathered in jerusalem for the festival overheard this commotion and thought that they were drunk and peter said uh guys it's only nine in the morning these people aren't drunk as you think so um what has happened is that the holy spirit has come upon them just like it said in the prophet joel your your sons and daughters are going to prophesy your old men are going to dream dreams this is what is happening god is pouring out his spirit on us and a peter preached a sermon he preached about jesus christ he told the crowd there to repent and and um to be saved and 3 000 were saved that day so it was a great day of harvest it was the day when you know the holy spirit began his work in the the church and in in indwelling believers in a in a way that brought miracles and in the very next chapter we see uh peter going into the marketplace and and a beggar was there a pair you know a [ __ ] and peter said you know silver and gold i have none but what i have i give to you in the name of jesus christ rise up and walk the man got up leaped and praised and and fr throughout the rest of the book of acts which is where these events are recorded we have the holy spirit working powerfully through the apostles and through the early believers giving them prophecies visions uh people were speaking in tongues they were raising people from the dead they were healing the sick and so all of these acts were done through the power of the holy spirit and peter's and peter said look this holy spirit is not just for it's it's for all who believe not just for right now but for all who will call in the name of the lord and it's so for all future generations so um the holy spirit is with us now if you're a believer in jesus christ then the holy spirit dwells in you and maybe we can talk about some of the things that the bible says about the holy spirit who is this holy spirit what does he do what is he doing right now and the you know and if you're not a believer in christ yet then let me just encourage you that when you come to know christ as your savior the holy spirit is going to give you peace the holy spirit is going to give you power to overcome sin to to have the mind of christ to know the will of god and to walk in power to heal the sick and to do the works of god's kingdom so how did i do summarizing david did a great job i want to i just want you to continue and to talk about all the aspects who is the holy spirit how does he work and and uh everything that you're excited about just keep sharing and my plan of attack today is to sort of come in afterwards and say well yeah but there's also this aspect that you didn't talk about what about this okay so i'll fill in the gaps a little bit and prompt you and goad you but i think you have a lot to say and probably a lot of good stuff that i hadn't thought about before so i want you to just dig in deep and and then i'll come in afterwards and go do you with some other some other ideas if you didn't hit upon them okay oh awesome okay well you know i i went through and i i wanted to find everything that the bible says about the holy spirit and so a few years back i did this and i found hundreds of references to the holy spirit i think there's more than 300 i can't remember the count now um and it but it's 37 pages of verses describing the holy spirit and he's there from the very beginning so um i've i've taken just a few of these uh verses just to kind of say who is the holy spirit and you know he's he's there from the beginning of the old testament you know it says the earth was without form and void and this is genesis 1 2 this is the second verse of the bible the earth was without form and void and darkness was over the face of the deep and the spirit of god was hovering over the waters the bible says that the holy spirit gives life you know um when god created humanity he breathed into them and it was the holy spirit bringing them to life listen to what it says in the book of job the spirit of god has made me and the breath of the almighty gives me life and in john chapter 6 jesus says it is the spirit who gives life the flesh is no help at all the words i have spoken to you are spirit and life and so the holy spirit is the giver of life he is everywhere so the bible says he's everywhere it says in psalm 139 where shall i go from your spirit or where shall i flee from your presence if i ascend to heaven you are there if i make my bed in sheol you are there in the presence of the spirit there is fruitful life there is justice there's righteousness isaiah 32 says until okay i i might have to do more context for this but okay this kind of i quote starts in the middle of the verse but it says until the spirit is poured upon us from on high and the wilderness becomes a fruitful field and the fruitful field is deemed a forest then justice will dwell in the wilderness and right righteousness abide in the fruitful field so isaiah is talking about this barren wilderness and it's when the spirit is poured out from on high that it becomes a fruitful field and that is a picture of us too walking in this world it is sometimes like a barren wilderness for our soul but when the holy spirit comes upon you you become like a fruitful field and the holy spirit works in us for righteousness and and to overcome the the things that are of the powers of darkness to bring justice where there's no justice so um i'm going to pause here and let you say any comments that you want to say because i don't want to talk too long it's okay i mean i'll just i'll just talk about a few of the images that came to mind as you were starting i mean the dry bones uh you know coming to life yes beautiful yes that one just came to me i hadn't thought about that uh today i mean i didn't didn't prepare by trying to think of stuff but um yesterday when i was at um i do it first five saturday's devotion and uh it involves going to confession doing some prayers rosary and all sorts of things and go to mass and prayers for the holy father's intentions and stuff like that but it's in reparation for the um the um sort of disrespect that's sometimes paid to our lady in different ways so um i was meditating part of the first five saturdays devotion is meditating on the mysteries of the rosary and you know there are many to choose from i've got 20 mysteries in the rosary that i could choose from i could meditate on all of them go through them or pick a few or one i just chose to focus on the very first one which is the enunciation that's when the holy spirit basically exposes mary and she conceives by the power of the holy spirit and so i was thinking about you know pentecost and the holy spirit and how the holy spirit is the soul of the church and when christ ascended he said it's better for you if i go because they were sad he was going but he said it's better that i go because if i don't go i won't send you the helper and the holy spirit so um i was thinking about the um the holy spirit while i was meditating on the annunciation and in particular in particular what i'm fascinated by because i'm so horrified by the murder that's taking place systematically in the womb of these mothers 73 million murders a year in the womb according to the world health organization that's one murder of a child every half second so that's a pretty rapid uh rate of murder in the womb i'm not saying that the women are murderers i'm saying that the the demons who run the abortion clinics and who know what they're doing they're murderers the women themselves i think in most cases are innocent maybe too strong of word but uh ignorant maybe is a better word and just committing uh manslaughter homicide whatever but um you know because i'm horrified by abortion um i like to think about these as i go jesus jesus that's a single cell at the moment of conception when we have uh the holy ghost fertilizing for lack of a better word one of the perfect eggs of mary and i like to think about the geometry of her female internal sex organs and where that egg might have been fertilized i think it was probably like in the center just for symmetry sake but i don't know might have been on the right not on the left i don't know i just like thinking about uh the mother of god's uh internal organs at the moment of conception and thinking about that zygote and the fact that the church teaches traditionally not dogmatically but traditionally teaches that christ uh of course uh i think it's probably a dogma too actually not to think about it that christ had the full use of reason and his will and he he didn't need to reach the age of reason as most of us do like at the age of seven or whatever so he i'd like to think about him in his mother's womb and it's warm it's comfortable and of course he knows what's coming he knows he's gonna suffer and die for us but he's got that moment in the womb and he's not in darkness per se because he is the light of the world and he doesn't need light just like it says in revelation we don't need the sun we don't need the moon we've got god as the light of the world right so i like thinking about that i like placing myself in the womb of mary with jesus the zygote the single cell and of course as soon as that as soon as that conception happens it's not static i mean there's cell division and there's just like a mirror the miracle of life right and i was thinking about how satan and his minions who are perpetrating procured abortions how they hate that they hate the activity of that single cell that's subdividing and the the magic of how we are wonderfully made and together in the womb each of us right and of course jesus as the god man has certain privileges that we don't have but nonetheless that the attack against the unborn in the womb is an attack against jesus christ i firmly believe that i firmly believe that abortion is about christ it's about uh attacking the image of christ because that's we are made in the image and likeness of god so i was just meditating on um abortion and on the conception and uh at the annunciation and how the holy spirit is the spouse of mary and all these things were just wonderfully coming together in my mind and of course it's a spiritual battle so it's it's a pleasant safe space uh in the womb of a mother it's supposed to be but at the same time uh there is the reality the sad reality of the fact that we live in a fallen world and jesus christ came to save us and he's gonna sacrifice himself and his mother has sacrifices to make too because a sword will pierce her also you know so uh those were the meditations yesterday and of course heavily focused on the the role of the holy spirit as the spouse of mary so maybe give some reaction to how all that strikes you awesome yeah actually that was one of the things that i was going to say next about the holy spirit now i i it's it's not the very next one but i'll just skip ahead to that because we can't say everything about the holy spirit today probably but but i i i have that the holy spirit brought forth jesus matthew chapter one says but as he considered these things joseph behold an angel of the lord appeared to him in a dream saying joseph son of david do not fear to take mary as your wife for that which is conceived in her is from the holy spirit and so it is the holy spirit who brought forth jesus christ in the womb and so yeah absolutely this is a very profound this mystery of the holy spirit uh you know bringing forth jesus in mary's womb and that's that's just you know a beautiful part of our faith so yeah that's great i did i did want to also mention um and if you don't mind i'll read just a little snippet from my uh fundamentals of catholic dogma sure just a little snippet uh or maybe a little bit more than a little snippet but then we'll get back to your bible stuff okay all uh this is a defeated dogma the highest grade of dogma all the ad extra activities of god are common to the three persons that means everything that the persons of the trinity do outside of the trinity like in creation are common to all three persons that's something to meditate on it's very interesting it gives a whole bunch of uh references justifying that dogma and then it talks about the appropriations by appropriation is understood a mode of predication in which the properties and activities of god which are common to the three persons are attributed to an individual person the purpose of the appropriations is to make manifest the differences in the divine proprieties and persons so these proprietartes are unique identifying aspects of each of the three persons even though they have that common uh nature that divine nature in order that this purpose be achieved only those common attributes and activities are appropriated to an individual divine person which exhibit a certain relationship to the proprietates of the person concerned so there are all kinds of rules about how to talk about one person of the trinity okay without confusing the listener the faithful and without uh blaspheming or committing sacrifice or anything like that there are all kinds of rules for that just so that we're very very clear uh about the about the two seemingly contradictory things one every activity at extra is in common to all three persons but we also attribute to individual persons certain activities and so it's uh it's a delicate it's a delicate issue i'm mentioning it only because i find it fascinating i'm not mentioning it because i think that you haven't that you weren't aware of it or that you've misused or anything like i only mention it because i find it fascinating i've always found that very very fascinating and as a new monotheist back in 2009 i was so jealous of god the father that i was very reluctant to talk about uh even the second person much less the third person so this this dogma that all of the ad extra activities are common to the three persons it's it comforted me and it um it removed a lot of the sort of dangers of the trinity in my mind that were there like trying to reconcile how god can be a trinity and what that means and at the bottom you know at bottom i can i can sympathize a little bit with the uh unitarians who believe there's only one person in the trinity and the modest like the eastern philosophies and religions that believe that there's only god and it's god is one and everything is one and separation is all these sorts of things i do have a deep sympathy for those uh those views even though they're technically wrong because they deny other aspects of christian christian doctrine but um you know in in my heart in and as a as a finite creature as a fine intellect it is a lot easier to grasp monism than it is trinitarianism or it's easier to grasp unitarianism than it is trinitarianism so we kind of have the best of both worlds with this doctrine because um you know we don't need to it remains a mystery the trinity remains a mystery and the activity of the trinity remains a mystery and the the the sort of silly paradoxical conundrums that you could run into if you started um like limiting the activities to one person you'd end up for example saying that jesus was his own grandfather or something like that you know all kinds of all kinds of logical things you could build into a nightmare scenario if you weren't clear on that dogma that i read you that they that they all act uh together in all add extra things so you understand what i'm saying yeah well i don't unders i mean i think i understand conceptually what they mean i do because this is how i but i don't understand what what add extra activities is tell me um what what that how is that defined what does it add extra activities well anything that's done in relation to creation for example like anything that's done in space time anything that's done in salvation history anything like the creation of the world the incarnation of the second person all these sorts of things and um but i mean it must be like i mean only the second person incarnated right so only the second person incarnated so that seems like a violation of this of this dogma that everything that's done that extra is done by all three persons but i think the the understanding i don't i don't know but i think the understanding is that uh all three persons participated in the incarnation um but only the second person incarnated and you know yes exactly this is they're all they're all one they're one god they all have that one divine nature but the father is not the son and the son is not the father and the father it's not the holy spirit all sorts of things so uh i mean i don't i don't expect to understand the trinity it's a deep deep mystery but i do really i do believe in it absolutely it's uh it's the sort of thing that we can dive in and swim around and enjoy it without necessarily uh understand what we're talking about and it can boggle your mind obviously if you try to nail it down pin it down and uh it's the same thing with anything in life like if i try to if i try to say hey i met rebecca davis and then someone says well who is she and then i give a simple definition i talk about who where you live what you do how old you are these things nothing there's nothing i could do to nail you down i can't i can't yeah right it's just like you will remain well beyond anything that i can say and even if i have your complete history from get i i hack your cell phone get all your history still won't won't be able to nail you down so obviously it's the same thing with uh with god we're not going to be able to uh put him in a cute little box right yeah and i mean the trinity is incredibly difficult and this is especially relevant to me as someone who's spent a lot of time in the middle east um speaking with muslims about god and of course this is one of their biggest hindrances to to christian faith but what i've realized is that i've never convinced a muslim of the like logic of the trinity okay so i don't try to do that i mean i will answer questions about it but i'm never going to talk to a muslim about the trinity unless they bring it up okay because i am i know that this is not something that you can um you're no one is ever gonna say wow yeah that's really logical i really see how that works you know no it's much easier to understand god as one and in fact god wanted us first to understand him as one so it this is the first way that he emphasized before uh the the persons were revealed to us god made it very clear that he wanted to be understood as one being and so you know we've we've got this revelation of god as one being and then we've got little things throughout the old testament that give us clues into the the person's uh you know the of the trinity and then you know we have the revelation in the new testament where we see at jesus's baptism we see the father speaking from heaven we see jesus present being baptized and we have the holy spirit descending on jesus as a dove so uh we we see there all three persons together and then you know but but even understanding the relationship between father son and holy spirit was so hard that i mean the the church fathers were arguing over this for hundreds of years right like they were like trying to figure out what were they trying to figure out well they were trying to make sense of what the bible says because it it is a difficult concept you have jesus um revealing himself as god but you also have places where it says you know god our father and the lord jesus christ you have you know jesus and god in the same uh sentence but they seem to be you know it so it is quite a confusing doctrine and it it it should be no surprise for us that it's hard for people but at the same time what i have noticed is that with muslims instead of trying to address and explain the trinity logically to them well i just introduced them to the bible and then they read and they realize who jesus christ is and then as they conti as they get to know him as they realize and accept him as savior then the the trinity is revealed to them and they they embrace it without controversy do you see what i'm saying like like we all do i mean just like it's just natural it's natural when you submit to god to submit to the mystery of god and the mystery of god uh it's no surprise that the mystery of god is full of surprises right um right i wanted to show you this little note here i don't know if you can see on your screen yeah so notice how it says the generation is intellectual and the spiration is volitional i don't know if you can see that but what that means is um we are made in the image and likeness of god that means we have reason and free will so we have that intellectual and abolitional component of god that god has too obviously we're finite gods infinite but we have intellect and we have free will what saint augustine said about the trinity as by way of analogy is that uh each human each human person can say i am i know that i am and i love the fact that i am this is the trinity so i am that's just the being that's subsistent being that's god the father i know that i am this is the intellectual generation like the father knows that's why the son is the image of the father because it's that knowledge it's a one-to-one mirror thing the known and the knower and then god loves that he is and that's that mutual love between father and son right so the that's why we differ from the greek orthodox one of the big controversies is it's a phililoque whatever they call it yep filioque or whatever they call it um because we understand dogmatically we don't have a choice in the matter as catholics we have to submit intellect and will to this dogma that the holy spirit proceeds not by generation but by spiration a volitional spiration not an intellectual generation but a volition not intellectual but a volitional spiration from both the father and the son it doesn't seem like it should be a very big deal but uh it's even to this day it's something that the uh orthodox and the catholics are disagreeing about and uh but it's very interesting thinking about saint augustine's approach because it ties in with with that this this idea of god being god knowing and then god loving or willing so it's it's fascinating stuff to think about yeah if you notice on my uh on my about page on my website i had like and it just i have like a beliefs like what are my beliefs and so my statement of faith is the nicene creed but i i put in parentheses you know where it's like the holy spirit proceeds from the father and then i put and the sun in parentheses because i can't decide which uh nicene creed i agree with [Laughter] at the end of the day it doesn't really matter right we're not gonna we're not gonna end up in hell because we got the phil aquarius wrong or whatever it's not yeah it's not a theology quiz that sends us to hell right but um for those who are if there's anybody who's confused about the trinity you know there are like um david was saying there are activities that are particular to one person of the trinity that are not true of the others for example okay all of the members of eternity participated in the incarnation but in different ways jesus is the only one that was incarnated the father you know gave his son the holy spirit was the giver of life and then this the father did not die on the cross for us the father loved us and gave his son to us the son loved us and gave himself for us on the cross um the holy spirit loved us and gave himself to dwell in us and so that's what we're you know talking about today and there are many promises in the old testament about what when god would make a new covenant with people and give us his spirit and so you know we have the what the lord says in jeremiah he says the days are coming when i will make a new covenant with the people of israel and the people of judah will not be like the covenant that i made with their ancestors when i took them by the hand to lead them out of egypt because they broke the covenant though i was a husband to them this is the covenant that i will make with them after that time i will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts i will be their god and they will be my people no longer will they teach their neighbor or say to one another know the lord because they will all know me from the least of them to the greatest and so this is it doesn't specifically say here the holy spirit but it's saying that that we will all know the lord that we won't need to teach each other to know the lord because the lord we will all know him and and but there are many verses that do mention when the holy spirit will come so um for example you know in the prophet joel that that peter talks about it says afterward i will pour out my spirit on all people your sons and daughters will prophesy your old men will dream dreams your young men will see visions and even on my servants both men and women i will pour out my spirit in those days um in ezekiel it says i will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you i will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh so there were promises throughout the old testament of god his plans to do something different to make a new covenant that would be different in that we would actually have his spirit and when jesus came he said you know he said look truly i tell you among those born of women there has not been anyone risen anyone greater than john the baptist yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he and i think this goes back to that prophecy from jeremiah where it says they will all know me from the least of them to the greatest and there there's something different about us than john the baptist because john the baptist died before the outpouring of the holy spirit so what is it that's making the least of those in the kingdom of heaven greater than john the baptist who jesus says was the greatest one who had been born of the flesh well there was a new birth coming this birth in the holy spirit and so um it is the spirit of god living in us giving us power too and um so this is the kind of the next thing i wanted to talk about but i will pause and give you before i go into this but yeah i'll give you time to respond but say a little something uh just yeah you know i think you already know one of my favorites is john the baptist but he was always portrayed even uh in sunday school uh i remember i remember quite distinctly he was portrayed as the last of the old testament characters really like this great prophet and the forerunner and all these sorts of things but uh paving the way for for the christ and uh but yeah it's like a clear delimitating delimiting marker of like that's the old this is the new and there's so many references to the old and the new you know even jesus himself talking about the wine skins and all these sorts of things just like it's all it's all about that you know before and after a d b c a d whatever like it's just like it's undeniable that's why if you're a monotheist if you're a jew or a muslim if you're a monotheist and you haven't yet grasped that something happened 2022 years ago if you haven't grasped it yet you need to look at history and it's going to become very very very clear that it's a new era it's the it's a new dispensation and it's just just like what you're describing it's like undeniable but i guess you know you could go to a woman's rally pro-choice margin you could ask them what a woman is they don't even know what a woman is so it's not too surprising if you meet a muslim or a jew they don't understand about the the new the new phase that was ushered in by the incarnation of the god man right like it's just like it may be obvious to us but it might not necessarily be obvious to those who are not yet in the fold right yeah and you know um even some people who are in the fold don't recognize the the power of the holy spirit within them and what he's capable of uh and and what you know he will do through all of us you know jesus this is uh and so this is kind of where i was thinking about going with this next but is that you know talking about the power that we have as believers with the holy spirit living in us to do miracles and this is not my idea this is what jesus said he said this is the power is going to come on you from on high and jesus said anyone who believes in me will do the works that i've been doing and in fact they will do greater works than these and he says the reason that we're going to do greater works is because of the holy spirit that he would be sending to us so the holy spirit you know helps us empowers us to do the works of christ what kind of works did christ do everywhere he went he was healing people he was driving out demons he raised people from the dead he multiplied bread and these are the types of works that the holy spirit will do through every believer and you know for some people that's like well you know i know i don't see that so is that really true because you know maybe you haven't experienced there are many christians who haven't experienced god doing a miracle through them um and so they they're kind of more believing what they've experienced rather than what jesus said about what the holy spirit would do through us and so i i kind of made a list of barriers i think that keep people from really walking in the power of the spirit with regard to miracles and um you know prophecy and and all the things that the holy spirit does through us so uh i kind of was gonna maybe talk about some of those barriers and then how we can overcome those what do you think about that basically david do i need to beg you or are you gonna do it cool okay so well yeah um so barrier number one that ident identified is the idea that the holy spirit doesn't operate as powerfully today as he did in the past and so you know the the truth is you know like i said jesus jesus told us that we would do the works that he was doing that's john 14. very truly i tell you whoever believes in me not the not the most holy who believe it not the extra special good not those who get up and pray for three hours okay like whoever believes in me will do the works i have been doing and they will do greater things than these because i am going to the father um so the first step is believing the words of jesus did jesus lie to us or is this really the power that we have um and so our our beliefs do shape our experience if right now you believe that you have the power of god to heal then when you go out into the marketplace um and a beggar asks you for something a crippled person asks you for something then you're gonna have the mindset of peter who looked at the man saw that he had the faith to be healed and said in the name of jesus christ rise up and walk and if you don't think you have the power of god then you're not gonna say that to the [ __ ] you're going to go and maybe pull something out of your purse and give them a few coins right and then go on with your day or maybe if you're really kind and compassionate you'll offer to pray for them or give them something to eat or so you know maybe you'll do something different but if you don't um expect that you have the power then you won't use it and you know i i like to say a lot of people ask me where is the god of miracles today well the god has not changed i think he's doing as many miracles this day as he did in the whole bible okay so i and i'm very confident about that um i did some math on this actually i tried to find how many miracles are in the bible and then i i kind of like tried to figure out in a person's lifespan if we took 7 billion people and we gave them 70 years if god did as many miracles today as he did throughout the entire bible then how how likely like how many people would you encounter that experienced a miracle in that 70 years and it was like um you know like one in 1200 if god did just as many miracles as he did today but anyway my mouth might not be right but what i'm saying is this miracles they can be very common um we don't have a lack of miracles from god we have a lack of miracle workers so if you want to see miracles of god become a miracle worker be willing to be a person that god will do can do miracles through because if you aren't willing to say to the person rise in the name of jesus christ rise up and walk then um god can't do the miracle um every miracle in the bible if you look look at every miracle in the bible they're all done through a person when when the red sea parted it didn't just part moses held up his staff right and the sea parted god used moses god used you know elijah god used elisha god used he used people to do miracles so god isn't just popping around doing miracles he's doing it through people um so that is the first step the barrier to overcome is to believe that god is doing miracles today um and i can give you tons of miracle testimonies from my own life and from um you know lives of people that i know and from if you know lots of them are online so and in books there's there's abundant miracles that the lord is doing today okay so let me pause and see if david has any feedback for this yeah well my prayer every day is i believe help my unbelief you know this is the thing it's like yes i believe but my faith is weak like this is you know this is the this is the predicament that i'm in and i think a lot of christians can relate to my position it just be yeah kind of lukewarm kind of like yeah that's for the saints and the heroes of the faith like the you know those who are strong and those who aren't tempted by sin whatever but you know it is as you say 100 i agree 100 with what you're saying 100 everything you said i agree 100 with everything you said but it remains a problem of weakness of attachment to sin of half-hearted walk with god it's like yeah well you know when i'm older when i'm retired when i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do that and you know this i'm speaking for myself but i'm also reflecting to you what i've heard from a lot of christians where there's a fantasy about oh yeah over if i went over to africa then i could do this and that or if the muslims drop my head off and go straight to heaven like all these fantasies or right you know or if i could just solve this problem that i'm in the middle of you know at work or it's got a lot of my mind or whatever but the reality is like you said it's just like we god is waiting for us to commit to him to have faith and then we can move mountains right we can move mountains and we can heal people and it's like do you don't you want that like i mean i'm asking myself don't you want that so yeah i'm i'm motivated excited by your by your uh talk and i'm inspired but i have to be realistic and i have to admit to you that i'm probably not just gonna like be transformed by your inspirational talk here because i already know that and it's just like an ongoing struggle to let go you know basically to die to self and to live in christ and that's that's the challenge day to day and i think uh you know i think i think it has to happen it's not it's not optional right it's not optional this is what you're talking about is not like hey do you want to add value to your walk with god what you're talking about is the walk with god this is to be a christian to be a christian you have to be christ you have to it's not optional so a lot of the listeners might be thinking oh that's nice isn't that nice you know what rebecca is talking about this uh this uh how should i put it uh this aspect like one aspect of christianity or something like that it's not it's not an aspect it's the very heart and center of christianity it's like that's what it's all about it's like are you gonna have the faith are you gonna commit to the faith are you going to be jesus christ on earth right now or not that's that's it so it's scary you know it's scary when you think about it um what you're talking about but we as humans as as lukewarm christians we have a tendency to say oh that's nice rebecca oh that's cute can you tell me a story about one of the miracles wow that's interesting and then go back to just living a mediocre lukewarm walk with god right well i go i go to church i read my bible i do this i do that oh and i met this interesting lady rebecca she told me this and that the other thing but it's not it's a schizophrenic way of being christian because you know the ultimate reality is we're all going to have to get there right we all have to get there i hope i i don't know if you if i'm overstating it because i'm taking what you're giving me and i'm sort of like pushing it to the max here do you but you're well you're good sorry do you agree with me well you're giving me a perfect segue into my next barrier but first i want to just set the record straight david you are not a lukewarm christian okay i haven't healed anyone as far as i know so the last thing that i want to do in this talk is load anyone with another burden that they need to fulfill that says if that if if you're thinking the way david is right now cancel like cancel cancel cancel but let's go on to the next barrier which is barrier number two is the idea that i must attain a certain level of spiritual discipline and maturity before the holy spirit will work through me powerfully prophetically miraculously etc okay that's not what i said no that's not what i said that's not what i said what i said what i would say i'm just interrupting briefly here just so it's clear we must be like little children we have to be in the moment authentic sincere like living in reality not living in fantasy so it's like it's it's it's not it's not like i just need to do a hundred more hail marys and then i'll be there no it's not it's not i hope you don't think that that's what i'm that i'm thinking you know in response to your speech about the gifts of the spirit and the works of the spirit it's not it's just about it's accessible to everyone at every time right but it's it is a commitment it is it is um it is a detachment from the world because let's face it worldliness is the enemy right worldliness like i'm attached to the world i like the world i like the pleasures of the world i love and i'm worried about paying my rent and paying my bills and feeding my wife and all these sorts of things that's all worldliness like st paul said if you're married you're going to worry about pleasing your wife and it's true so uh anyway i've i just wanted to clarify that right yeah but i that whatever it is that you think you need to do to get there i'm against that okay okay like i mean what i mean is like if you think it's that you need to become more like a child okay then or then okay i'm just saying like this is like um kind of it's just another way of being hard on yourself i mean excuses that's what you're saying no excuses david no excuses what about this excuse no no excuses let me let me just put it this way um this should be fun yeah okay no what i mean is like getting to participate in the miracles of god should be fun if it's not fun forget it like because that the holy spirit didn't come to make you miserable and um you know like yeah thinking that you've got to do this list of things in order to you know be able to do his works and things like that like this is it it should be like really good news that that you have his power within you and it's a gift okay it's it's not something that you work towards it's and i know you understand this conceptually but i'm the reason that so it's just that i i as a person who has struggled in the past like up until 2010 2011 i was extremely legalistic i was very hard on myself and i always thought i was being a lukewarm christian and i was always fearful that god was gonna reject me i used to like have the covers up to my like neck and think and i would be laying in bed and my husband would be like what's wrong and i'd be like i'm afraid god is gonna reject me and then you know anyway this is getting kind of off track but what i'm trying to say is that like i i know how people's mentality can be because i've lived through that for many years and so like when i hear things like okay you know there's these things i've got to do and whatever they might be whatever your set of things is like your set of things is oh i've got to become like a child and i've got to embrace this way and stuff am i in my misc am i mischaracterizing this no no it's all it's all it's all kinds of things right i may not even have expressed what it really is i mean i think it comes down to just courage it just comes down to courage you know and like take the leap take the leap of faith and uh it's the the image as you know this lately as you've been talking the image in my mind has been like hey david uh your father has given you a very powerful sports car here are the keys go give it a test run and i my instinct would be like well i don't know if i can handle that like i don't know if i can handle that or if he said here's this a huge machine gun is the most powerful machine gun go kill your enemies and i would be like i'm afraid i'm gonna hurt some innocent bystander you know what i mean it's just the power and the responsibility i think that might be the key word responsibility am i going to take responsibility i don't have a pet i don't have children i don't have a pet and i don't have a house plant i don't have a house plant but you want me to take this superpower you want me to take responsibility for the like you want me to let the holy spirit work through me so that's the fear that's the irrational i'll say it's irrational because i understand that that's my that's my job is to die to self and live in christ and to have the holy spirit working through me i understand that you don't need to convince me of that right what you need to talk me off the ledge with this all this fear and self-doubt and all that because i don't want to take responsibility for anything ever my whole life long okay right the challenge i think that's the crux of the matter with me but i mean i don't want to make it all about me because uh you know other christians have perhaps different barriers so you can just continue well you know the good news i think is that um god has done a very risky thing by giving human beings the holy spirit and he had to be okay with it being messy in order to do that because um you know we do make a mess of things and so did you see what happened in nigeria today the shooting in the catholic church the 50 dead or something like that muslim went in with a gun and some bombs and killed 50 people in a catholic church in uh i think it was nigeria so that's that's uh that's part of the reality that we live in right so there is you know there's part of me that's thinking i'm justified to be a little bit cautious right with accepting the responsibility and the power of being a true christian but um it's a messy messy world with a lot of dark a lot of dark dark stuff but uh i still 100 agree with you and i'm just going to let you go yeah go on move forward maybe by the end of your checklist there i'll be on board well yeah and i mean but david exactly the type of things that you're talking about okay they're you know we don't have examples in the book of acts of somebody shooting up a church obviously that wasn't a capability at that time but what we do have is bad things happening to the great apostles of the lord right so if you think about james died shortly after jesus ascended like it wasn't long until he was taken into custody and killed um and so i'm sure the church was praying for him right but he was killed um so and and terrible things were happening to all the i mean imagine you know peter james and john and i think it was james i think it was them but but getting whipped you know i think this is acts chapter 3 2. they they all got brought in and then they got whipped um horrible things were happening to the lord's apostles uh even sometimes though the the important people mentioned in the new testament were sick you know paul was talking about i think it was epaphroditus or something i don't know was was like sit maybe it was even timothy it was like he said something like uh he was ill to the point where he almost died but you know thankfully the lord showed me mercy and you know and mercy had mercy on him and he lived so these were people who were doing miracles themselves but they still suffered illness sometimes and so you have a weird mix of things happening where it's like both the power of god are displayed and then there's events where it seems like the powers of darkness have their way right and so um i think a good way to keep in keep good you know perspective to keep in mind is that this world is a spiritual battle we are battling the forces of darkness and they win some battles like they there's times when they win battles and so they won with inspiring somebody to go in and shoot 50 people so the the powers of darkness that was their hour where they were able to you know successfully take out 50 you know 50 of the lord's servants but we already know that no matter what the powers of darkness do no matter if they have that hour where they reign god has the victory for each individual person and for all of us collectively so we already know that all those people who died in the church they have victory and um that they've they've won the ultimate the war and so that's kind of how i think of things but i think we don't get us in in the book of acts and you know in everything that we understand about the church through paul's letters things are quite messy it's not like oh we all have the power of god and now like nothing bad ever happens to us and now we never do anything wrong you know um so do you want to respond to what i'm saying because no no i mean i i was just thinking about um it's kind of the opposite of that it's like if that were the case yeah i would just be more ready to embrace that if um you know if i if i had that false idea that i'm gonna be protected i'm just gonna be like superman and no one can touch me no one can harm me never gonna get sick yeah that would be a a lot more attractive but um unrealistic but um you know i'm thinking more about saint peter before pentecost obviously when um he denied the lord three times and uh just the his he was a big talker saint peter before and then he proved that he's a little bit weak right because we all are weak without without without grace so it was a good illustration for peter to humble him to show him uh that he needs to die to self and live in christ as we all do and so it's a very good illustration i like thinking about saint peter his weakness and his boastfulness his impulsiveness and all these sorts of things we can relate to that very easily you know today uh as christians but um you know it's it's sort of um one of the other analogies i like to use is sort of like a team a sports team not a big sports guy but you have a sports team and you have more players than you need so some of them sit on the bench right so i kind of feel like hey i'm on the bench and when are you gonna put me in coach when are you gonna put me in and just just give me a signal give me that signal and i'll jump up i'm ready to go that kind of thing so part of me has that enthusiasm like hey yeah like god please use me and i have sympathy for people i see who are homeless and stuff like that i'd like nothing more than you know i'd give them a couple bucks or whatever but or some food whatever but um i'd like nothing more than to be able to transform their lives and the lives of people in my family and my friends and my wife you know so uh yeah that would be wonderful but it's that kind of that image of i'm on the team i'm on the right team thank god i'm on the right team right i'm a bench warmer i'm just a bench warmer and maybe i'll bring you some gatorade to the star players you know so that's kind of but you know i'm willing to get out there i guess uh in principle i'm willing to get out there on the court whatever the sport is get out there on the court and put me in coaching so that's that's one of the ideas and that's part of what motivated me to do the podcast is because i converted in 2009 and i was just like what am i going to do what am i going to do what am i going to do like i mean okay i'm praying i'm reading i'm it's all intellectual but i want to be an instrument of grace what can i do and uh providentially my wife recommended that i do a podcast so i just i i just did that and uh it's not bearing a lot of fruit that i'm aware of but at least at least i i have some satisfaction in the idea that i'm meeting people i'm exchanging ideas with people i'm praying for people they're praying for me and i've met some really kind-hearted christians who are praying for me every day which i really appreciate that's one of the most exciting things about the podcast is that prayer exchange thing and uh just before we went live today uh you prayed for me in a very special way and i really appreciate that so the podcast no doubt is bearing fruit in that way but um all of this just to say like i'm on the winning team i firmly believe that i'm not the star player but but i'm on the right team so it is what it is right yeah baby steps well i think you know i think part of it is that we need to recognize that we're all the star players and that doesn't mean we all have to do the same things you know we are not all the same yeah the hands the eyes the ears yes that's cool yeah but but but you are a star player thank you very much yes so um you know and and so um what i was gonna kind of talk about is like you know as i i understand what you're saying and i will i will admit there is a part of this that that does require something from you if you want to see miracles you do have to risk yeah right um there there is a risk of rejection i mean you you could offer to pray for someone you know i mean well in you know what let me let me caveat that because i don't think that the apostles did that with every single person that they met willy-nilly um because it specifically says exactly yeah that he he saw that he had the faith to be healed and and so but that's not saying we should always be like does this person have the faith to be healed because there's there's lots of times when people don't have faith but it's your faith that is going to heal them and and so um you know that's uh i i wouldn't focus too much on that but i would say you know of course you should probably not say that unless you really buy it so you know when i'm when i'm praying for people i i try not to say like okay this is gonna happen you know what i mean like i i i don't do it in that way usually but there have been a few times uh when i did have that kind of you know faith uh for healing um but anyway that's kind of it's all about god's will it has to be god's will and you have to be sensitive to god's will and it's supernatural it's a supernatural thing and yeah in a in an analogy we could use an analogy in a more natural plane where we talk about the um the sort of going with the flow as a a natural human in the natural world like when you're a young person traveling and you're just connecting you're meeting people doors are opening and things just magically happen it's called travelers magic and i've experienced it firsthand it's kind of like the atheists providence okay so they have this sort of thing like it's just like wow you know coincidences or whatever where just things just worked out you know and i was in a tight spot and wherever and this happened i met this person and it's just you know as a believer we see the hand of god there we see providence but uh as an atheist when i was traveling around i just felt this traveler's magic not all the time but very often it's just like wow there's a flow and because i'm not attached and i don't have a return ticket or whatever it's just like that that freedom and things just happen and you start to have this idea that you're connected to something deeper and a lot of atheists experience this and it's it's a spiritual thing a lot of a lot of atheists say i'm not religious i'm spiritual and there's a good foundation for that because they are experiencing something that i think comes from god um and it might be uh it might be they may be exposed to this gentle hand of god in preparation for their eventual conversion right who knows god only knows but what my point of talking about this is just to say that of course i'm not going to walk up to the next crippled person i see and say hey would you like to walk because i've got the holy spirit i'm going to make you walk now get ready i'm not going to do that because it happened you have to be living in reality this is the other thing i wanted to say it's all about humility humility is knowing who you are knowing what you are and knowing what god's plan is for you and all these sorts of things uh my friend mark lisney hi nice to see he's in the chat he says i think the key is in defining what quote greater things than these actually means so maybe you could respond to that rebecca from my friend mark yeah um mark i would love to hear your thoughts on that if you know what do you think greater things are the greater things that jesus is talking about are um in it may be that jesus is talking about greater things as in long-term works i mean jesus was only doing ministry for three years and so a greater work than what jesus did might be someone who spends 20 years um doing some sort of service for god's people right like that you could just say in in the length of time that person had to serve and the amount of people that they came in contact with the amount of people that they helped would be greater than the amount that jesus helped simply by the the length of time that the person had to serve and so um it might be you know greater opportunities to love people long term i mean you know jesus wasn't married um many people are in marriages that are very difficult but they are persevering uh because of love of christ and they're persevering loving a person that they have conflict with and difficulties with their they you know and so many people are are you know for the sake of honoring god continuing to love each other and be in a monogamous relationship that reflects the love of christ who doesn't ditch us when things get hard right christ doesn't ditch us when uh we fail him he doesn't ditch us when we get ugly he doesn't ditch us when we get sick christ has made a commitment to his people and you know he has joined himself to us forever and so marriage is supposed to be like that where we are joined to the person even when they act ugly even when there's conflict even when things are hard even when there's sickness and so we should be a reflection of the way that christ has joined himself to the church and so some one of the greater works that jesus may have been talking about was this work of people persevering in marriage uh i can imagine i could just continue to list off things that might be greater works than the work of christ and i will mention in there there's many people on earth today who have done more miracles than christ did and so yeah he says he also says um mark leslie says salvation is greater than being raised from the dead but not being saved so so obviously someone raised from the dead who's not saved that's less of a miracle than someone who's saved and this is what i always say the greatest greatest miracle ever was my conversion to god right like that's that's that's how i see it subjectively it's like and jesus even talks about this you know the the lost sheep and the prodigal son and this is it's it's just obvious that there's a great celebration for one sinner coming back to christ right it's just like that's the pinnacle that's the ultimate uh the ultimate work and uh for sure i mean that that's that's a the strongest motivation for me to commit more fully to christ is to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world so that i can have my loved ones my wife my mother my father my sisters everyone especially those close to me convert right so like um on judgement day i don't want to get chastised for like hey we had an opportunity to convert everyone you love but you're just why didn't you do it why didn't you why didn't you do it so i'm not i'm not saying i'm not portraying uh i'm not anticipating that god's gonna chastise me i'm just saying this is kind of like the the loser mentality i have it's like yeah well i'm supposed to be holy and to facilitate the conversion of those that i love because that's what what else is there i mean what if you gain the whole world but lose your soul it's it's worse than useless so it's the same thing with my walk with god like i mean if i'm not converting people what's the point like what am i doing you know so i'm not i'm not trying to be a negative nancy here i'm not trying to complain or say that god's gonna chastise me on judgment day because i didn't convert enough people like we discussed earlier like i mean i'm sure their graces i'm sure i'm instrumental in some indirect way and bringing graces to people whatever in my day-to-day life at work whatever just having religious images around or whatever or talking about christ or whatever like you know it doesn't take much god can work with a little bit and my intention is always like obviously i i'd rather live in a world where everyone was christian right it'd just be a lot nicer world so there's a selfish motivation in that in that regard too like just wouldn't it be nice to have no more war for one thing no more rape no more murder no more abortion like wouldn't that be nice no more selfish uh infighting like hey let's uh let's turn on each other because our parents uh inheritance is up for grabs and let's all destroy all of our relationships so we can have the biggest slice of that pie or whatever wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where that didn't happen so yeah uh being uh being christian i'm highly highly motivated to be christian because i want to live in that world where everyone is everyone is christian and godly and virtuous and uh like mark lisney said but most of all the biggest motivation is i i don't want to go to hell and i don't want anyone else to go to hell i want everyone to go to heaven and to enjoy god forever and ever and ever so yeah it's extremely uh it's extremely exciting and we have all the reasons in the world to be instruments of of grace and to uh kill the old man as i like to say now david what do you see your like main role you know it says some are called to be you know apostles some evangelists some preachers some teachers some have the gift of help some have you know hospitality administration what do you i mean how do you what do you think your main role is my main my main thing is uh husband to my wife uh that's my main thing um i love her i love being married to her i mean i'm cool i'm i wouldn't say worried but she's you know when she talks about god it's if god exists then this is what i expect from it if god exists then he should punish our enemies and he should punish the evil globalists who are doing all these nasty things whatever like that's sort of her that's her sort of relationship with god it's like well if god existed wouldn't he strike down these bad guys like that's kind of where she's at in terms of god and religion yes like uh she's a work in progress when it comes with when it comes to a relationship with god she doesn't understand the problem of evil or that god is infinitely good and all these sorts of things and it i can't talk to my wife on an intellectual level i have to just talk i just have to be there love her support her and i've tried i've tried talking to her uh intellectually about philosophy religion or or whatever and it just it doesn't work it just will not work she's not interested and makes her angry and she doesn't have the capacity to do abstract reasoning in that way okay so it's she's got her own strengths and weaknesses i've got my strengths and weaknesses like whatever it's not a judgment but that's not the way to get her in love with god okay like i'm not gonna sit down with her hey honey have you read chapter three paragraph six wasn't that wonderful no that ain't gonna work ain't gonna work i'm gonna get a frying pan over the head if i even show her that book so um you know it's an interesting role that god's given me like i um you know i have to i have no choice i have no choice if i'm going to influence my wife it's only going to be by my actions only only it's only going to be my actions it's not going to be all my brilliant ideas about theology or whatever it's not you know it's only going to be the example that i set so i actually i actually have to be christian i have to be christian i have to walk the walk and when i first interviewed you i talked about um johnny is as she's calls herself jo i would say joanie but johnny the woman in the wheelchair there and how she she does the walk like she walks the walk it's just like amazing and i want to be i want to be like there's so many examples we could talk about you know but um i want to be christian i want to walk the walk i don't want to just talk the talk talk is cheap and so um so my wife is number one but the the secondary role that i play i think is in terms of i've been to the dark side with my atheism and my satanism so i have a certain sympathy and warmth for the atheist that i think is useful to god i think i have a certain openness and tolerance to um the ways of the deep dark atheist that i think god can take advantage of i think that's something where um i can have a certain proximity to what some christians would just want to rain down fire and brimstone from heaven to destroy the enemies i would have a different approach where i would want to have a proximity and and a listening ear and a patience and a tolerance so i think that's i think that's a gift that i have that might be useful to god but uh awesome beyond that i don't know any you know he's already using you very powerfully in that david i mean you you have so many i don't know how many interviews you have on your channel do you know how many yeah like 350 something or whatever yeah yeah and so how many of those would you say are with christians well maybe a third or so maybe yeah okay so like a third or two-thirds of the interviews that you've had so that's a couple hundred people yeah that you've talked to about deep spiritual things yeah right yeah yeah it's cool it's cool yeah opportunity yeah in my real life i've never talked to that many people period about this stuff because it's hard to find someone that will talk about uh god and religion right much less yes exactly much less than atheist like can you imagine like just turn to someone on the city bus and start talking to this random atheist about religious matters i tried that once i did that i did try that once and i did not get a good reaction so you need the context you need that context like i'm a catholic this is my podcast and if you're interested you know how to reach me and then that one in a thousand that that is willing will reach out to you so i i'm very happy that we have the mass communications that we have with the internet and all these sorts of things of course it's a tool of the dark side too with pornography and all that but we can use it for good and the church teaches us that that it is good and we can use it for good and that we should not use it for evil so that's what uh that's what we try to do and there's so many people out there that are making wonderful content not only christian content but there are a lot of uh you know individuals putting out christian content and sometimes the you know the young person or the inexperienced person or the amateur grabs you a little bit more than the polished professional journalist type you know what i mean i'm interviewing tomorrow night i'm really excited very excited to interview byzantine scotus he's a nice young man with uh with a lot to say about his catholic faith i don't know that much about him but i've seen him once or twice he seems like a sharp young uh guy that reads a lot and i think he's a teacher by trade but um yeah uh you know to discover to discover these personalities very quirky personality too which i like but to discover these people on the internet and they have the little channel not necessarily about religion either i mean you can discover people that are obsessed with unicorns or they're obsessed with certain things hobbies or whatever and it's just cute it's cute to see what uh what makes people excited right even if it's not religion i think i think the the most important thing to be excited about is god and religion but there are people who are excited about other things and it's kind of cute to see uh god's creatures right like god loves them christ died for them so it's fun discovering that absolutely and i mean david the work that you've done may be one of the works that jesus was talking about that people will do greater works than those that i've done because jesus doesn't have a background in philosophy and all this experience um you know living in in these you know ways of thinking and he doesn't have your story right um you have your story your journey of coming to the lord and you're sharing that with people and you don't know how many people have been touched by that first of all probably i mean quite a lot of people have heard your story i mean hundreds heard it on my channel the other day and i'm sure people have heard it on your channel many more than just the couple hundred uh unbelievers that you've interviewed right but there's also all the people that are watching it and so your testimony is going forth throughout the earth and and then of course all you know the all the experience that you have all the books that you've read and it's so this is a wonderful work that you're doing and so you know it's nothing small it's funny it's fun thinking about it that way because one of the reasons i like reading the new testament and uh the lives of the apostles is because of the diversity of their personalities and their inclinations and their you know uh how they make their living and these sorts of things and how it's the tentacles of the body of christ just reaching out and you know we could talk about the growth of the church and how uh just that outreach you know i think this is a very popular image of uh growing the church you know just just like just like stretching out and these members of the body of christ are unique and valuable and they have what i always talk about is the chemistry that i have with people good or bad or indifferent but you know there's behind that i think is a supernatural um you know providence i guess i could say like um why did this person uh why was this person willing and able to come and talk to me at this particular time you know it nothing happens by chance so i do i'm very much aware i very much appreciate everyone i meet and everyone who comes on the show and uh you know bearing in mind that we are actually living as members of the body of christ but also uh participants in salvation history that's something that i think people should spend more time dwelling on it's like salvation history is unfolding we know the happy ending we know that but we don't know how exactly we're all gonna get there and if god forbid some of us don't get there and it's unraveling now like time is unfolding and we've got these opportunities and of course if we miss an opportunity or if we skip an opportunity if we say no to an opportunity it comes from god as a part of salvation history to help our brothers and sisters or to help ourselves it's not long before god presents us with another opportunity so we don't need to get too upset with ourselves if we miss an opportunity but if we see our lives as a series of these up of these opportunities in salvation history and that it's unfolding and the if we keep our eyes on the prize not only for ourselves but for our brothers and sisters uh it's pretty exciting right and uh there's no there's no part of human experience that is compartmentalized and separate from salvation history it's all part of it like even go into the darkest mafia den right now where it just stinks of money and greed and violence go into that den of godless thieves and god's at work there his providence is at work there salvation history is playing out right there right now so that's exciting to think about right that there's no one there's no part of there's no part of humanity throughout all of history that was exempt from the mission like the mission is the mission and it's always the top priority it's just we forget about that we tend to forget about that we'll go watch a hollywood movie and we'll forget about our problems at work and our problems at home and whatever and we'll be in this fantasy world of the movie and and whatever and we can forget all about god and religion right but the reality is that god's at work there and salvation history is playing out there this is part of salvation history that's that's the kind of sort of vision that i like to always keep in front of my eyes yeah that is beautiful i love that it's so true in every moment you know god is god is at work god is doing something and i like what you said about you know even in like the the darkest places of sin where it's just full of greed or violence you know uh we may not see what god will make from that because it seems so gross and so terrible but god can still work in the minds of those people like you know that horrible act of violence or that act of greed that they have accompli you know whatever they've done um may later be part of helping them turn to the lord because they will be become aware of their sin and actually isn't that i think like those of us who who've um experienced the darkness of our own sin are the ones who are more easily able to turn to christ because we see our need for him so yeah it's uh was there somebody in the chat that no i i just i just keep uh i'm looking over at mark lewis and he says i would have met rebecca without your podcast we're chatting privately later what really yeah ah oh yeah we have a yeah we're we're meeting at in one hour oh no way cool yeah very cool hey lena just popped in hello aren't most people going to miss out on salvation according to matthew 7 13 to 14. you can briefly answer that and then i'm gonna have to wrap up because i got another guest coming on yeah yeah great happy new year happy to see you lina in the chat and uh do you read your emails because i keep sending you emails you never respond let me know the best way to reach you lena please and now over to you rebecca yeah and is that the one that says narrow is the path that leads to life broad is the way that leads to destruction probably so um so but um you know lena i would say that if that's the passage we're talking about i think david's looking it up real quick but you know that passage should be understood in context because it's not um i don't think it's necessarily just talking about salvation there it's talking about the road that leads to abundant life right and and so it's very easy to get off paths of righteousness and start living in ways that are destructive to ourselves and so it's it's very hard to stay on a path that is full of abundant life it's uh even as a christian and so i mean i apply this to myself as a person who i know i'm saved and okay david thinks i'm being presumptuous there but that's okay look um i you know i believe very much in the lord's salvation for me but you know i know that to to i can still live in ways that will destroy me right if i if i get off on a track of a wrong idea um or you know wrong ways of thinking about god or wrong ways i can still live in ways that will really mess up my life and so i think this is talking about more than just salvation but it but it it's also dangerous to take one verse out of context i mean take one verse and then ignore other verses and we know that like it talks about how before the throne of god like the the those who are going to be saved are going to be more than we can even possibly count and from every tribe language tongue and nation and it's it's an innumerable amount of people who are going to be part of god's kingdom so although you know somebody could take that one verse that you cited and say oh see only a few people are going to be saved we also have many places in the bible that talk about the abundant number of people the unfathomable number of people that are going to be saved so that's how i understand that you know my classic answer to uh questions like that is it's not your business it's not your business your business is to know god to love god and to serve god in this life so that you can be happy with god in the next life okay once you've accomplished that then you can speculate about the statistics of heaven and how you can speculate about that yes right okay so none of your business that's a distraction um if you were to ask me to go out on a limb and talk about the relative proportions of those who make it and those who don't i'd say i'd say that god is good and i hope i hope that not even one person goes is lost okay i would hope that not even one person is lost but i have sadly i have reason to believe that there are many people who are lost it's sad but my heart is with god and my heart is with my fellow man and i want everyone to be saved that's what god wants that's what i want that's what everyone should want it's obvious and no atheist can bash the christian for any position on this statistical analysis of who makes it who doesn't make it all we know is god is good we live in a fallen state we are weak we have free will that free will is a good gift of god but it is by definition tautologically open to abuse free will is by definition open to abuse if you can't abuse it it's not free will right right it is free is necessarily open to abuse that's the reality so we have to take it seriously but we our only enemy is the man or the woman in the mirror we need to just say look i if you've ever taken a first aid course number one rule don't put yourself in harm's way to save someone else because now we have two victims and then two more people come along and try to say let's put them in harm's way and now we have four victims and then eight victims 16 victims 32 victims it's never going to end step one protect yourself at all times and then with your extra resources your ex extra time and energy yeah save the other person but step one don't follow yourself okay that's step number one that's the same spiritual advice for the for the christian save make sure that you are saved first that's why all my prayers for for for conversion start with myself first i need to be converted today i need to be converted i need to be doing the will of god and then yeah of course if i'm doing the will of god guess what that means that means being an instrument of god's grace to save my brothers and sisters or you know just to be instrumental in that in some small way or maybe in a big way whatever but um yeah you have a lot you have a lot of questions and comments i really appreciate and we're gonna we're gonna talk again uh book another spot with me lena book a spot with rebecca we'll talk yeah we'll talk and uh we'll get through all your questions but you know god is good and it's not that complicated we don't need to be worried if a lot of people go to hell or if not that many people go to hell let's just hope for the best and put our uh keep our eyes on the prize right rebecca you have anything to add to that yeah just lena i'd love to have you on my channel too and thank you so much for having me on today david and is floyd coming on in 20 minutes yeah how did you know about that i know i love floyd um floyd has been on my channel a couple times okay and um so anyway i will i'll watch a little bit of that before i meet with uh an atheist yes okay yeah is he he's gonna be really hard on you david that's good he heard our he heard our interview the other day okay um and so i told him to contact you if you wanted to talk you know to use so he's gonna be quite tough on you he knows a lot about the bible and a lot about christianity so cool you know yeah but i think you'll have a good conversation he's very thoughtful very thoughtful nice ex-christian maybe yes yep they're the toughest ones yeah well thanks everybody and um appreciate being on today and may god bless you and fill you with his holy spirit and and use you for mighty works and greater works than the works of christ oh man sister i love you very much we'll talk i love you too david thank you bye okay bye-bye