so we're live I'm here with Kailen Kailen how's it going it's going alright how about you it's going well yeah nice to hear from you thanks for connecting we've spent the last 47 minutes doing sound checks and transom it's been fun getting to know you in that sort of informal yeah tech tech support mode anything oh yeah we didn't have to get your roommates involved so it's all good we got it figured out and so you you learned about my channel through Nathan Ormond one of my guests and I understand you're a young Catholic living in Ottawa but I'm gonna let you introduce yourself and tell the listeners a little bit about yourself if you would please okay so for for for whoever may be listening my name is Kailyn I am I am I am a ki I'm a Catholic but I don't want to say but because I mean has two counts like I should be adhering to traffic doctrine and a wine with all the Catholic teaching um but one of the reasons why I wanted to you know kind of come on here and talk with David here because I do have some questions about about about my faith and I assume that he's better better educated in it than I am and and I haven't always been a Catholic actually I was only confirmed into the Catholic Church just this past kind of cost and I mean I did so I didn't just kind of do it just oh why not I mean I it was an informed decision and I I spent like the past maybe entire year just for several months studying I've been going to Catholic Church to the past how many years it used to be an Anglican Church is not part of the England Ordinariate though it is it's in Kingdom with Rome but yeah that's me I am I'm a Catholic so this is Catholic versus Catholic but that doesn't that don't worry that doesn't mean it might not get 'spicy don't worry yeah so yeah it's technically speaking this is not Catholic versus Catholic because that would be a pre-recorded thing I can make it all make myself sound like a genius by editing out of all my mumbling and fumbling and all the tangents and uh what was I talking about again I can't you know all that stuff so this is CBS live guest so we've got to watch what we say and I sure I had to make my hair all pretty for you today so let's start by talking a little bit about your your avatar I've got it on the screen when I stop talking I switch over to the desktop and I can see your your your avatar your icon just talk a little bit about that and the background for that we discussed it a little bit off air but I want I want my listeners to hear and I want to hear more more of the story explore how the interesting yeah is there there's a lot more that goes to it so I can't I can't see what's being shown but I'm assuming that it's there uh anyone who's watching this now or in the future is able to see this image which is the most important part is that just a rectangle and a square the left of it or it's right however you want to say it and that image was based off of a photograph that I took when I was about 15 just being I why I'm like I'm an artist somewhat I went to an arts high school so no being a 15 year olds you're full of anxiety we got all that teen angst and you want to express that in an artwork so I had a I had a taste for really I guess director artwork doctor things I you know if it's people like seeing art that speaks to them and and that was this kind of the art that spoke to me at the time I'm certainly not anymore I'll tell you that but so is it is a grungy image of as a photograph of the reflection of a door that was a nursery door and a first-aid box and in the picture was just lit really it just looks kind of creepy so I used it in like oh this is an awesome picture I'll just use it in whatever and but what happened was that that was when I was that was mini mini museum and that was taken um the pictures taken right beside a classroom and this is last year I had a class in that classroom and in that class there was an image that came up and the date of that image which was 1315 was very similar to the number that I named my photograph which was a seven one three one five anyway so the number connection right there was was I stopped that was a first day I noticed I'm like oh wow I've seen that number before then I remembered em in that classroom like oh yeah that number corresponds to the picture I took of the nursery door in the first aid box so I looked to my left and I can see it right there some state in the classroom then I look at the artwork on that's been presented and it's a picture of the Theotokos it's a holy May Blessed Virgin Mary and crow holding Christ and hey look at that and I look at the first aid box in the nursery door and the number everything's clicking and I realized that there's some pretty interesting connection that's being made here and it was and then just that right there it just stood out to me because like this is such a crazy just crazy coincidence you know and ever since then I've looked at my artwork I've look to that picture of the whole different light because what that with the picture symbolizes in my way I see it well it's a nursery door it's you know and that nursery supplies we take care of children and it's door so Mary quite literally is the door for Christ into this world and Christ is our crusade box and these are the divine physician and so this is this is only the first half of this or maybe less in half because basically what what we did look at the class that I was in was my college which is called Augustine college if any of you listeners have part of it or maybe not it's a one year liberal arts program where we study the history of Western thought so we study the art philosophy the literature all of these things that have been staples in Western society we study the history of it and you can kind of see really I mean when you look at thing I'm not really but I'm not super academic but I am I I guess a low tier intellectual like I like I like looking at the big picture things and especially you study the Bible it's insane you just like take a step back and look at the look at the big picture and so yeah stuff studying studying here Augustine College kind of permanently like I like to I like to use the word scarred it's pretty pretty it describes it pretty actively because it's like something I can't get out of my head um but it started the way I think it in a very positive way because I feel like I can think properly now as prior to prior to this um I think in really modern ways and it's not just because that's I grew I've grown up in a modern society I've grown up thought I was thinking in whatever category in categories whatever terms that I've been I've been given um I guess I liked it more not later yeah I want to I want to focus on your journey from non Catholic to Catholic and talk a little bit about the context in your family are there Catholics historically in your family tree or not and what sort of religion was in home if any just talk a little bit about that a few of those yeah for sure so I mean actually it wasn't like I'm just this kid with no faith background who became Catholic just for whatever reason my ID grew up um octina I don't what my mom's mom was Catholic but my mom but the bite see how she converted back to she turned away from the faith or I came aboard every reason but it must have been something to do with well whatever I don't know the story but anyway so my mom did not grow up Catholic she not sure how she grew up but she's Christian for sure same thing was my brother my my son um helices my father he owned he because his parents are very very very like they they are very devout Christians they are I believe that going to an Anglican Church I think you're going through Lutheran lung but anyways but yeah my grandfather is a pastor on there there are two very very great people very devout Christians and so my father he he grew up Protestant and so that's kind of just how I end up growing up we went to a Baptist Church um I took her in British Columbia out west so I was about to church for the first maybe eight year yes first eight years of my life and then um then when we came here to Ottawa my dad came here to all about because of the college actually um my entire life revolves around this college I mean I mean more and more accurate revolves around Christ and God and God used this College to say something to me and so anyways the the teacher that coincidentally taught the art class that I'm talking about the change my life of the teacher cappella art class went to Negron Church and so my dad and my family just ended up going to that church because my dad was good friends with with this man and so yeah we went to that church for the path for I I be goin thought seeing church seen building because it'll sing community people more or less to the past twelve twelve years and it was an Incan Church and it became part of the it was twenty twelve maybe that became part of the inclin'd Ordinariate so we have traditional like Anglican music and hymns and stuff like that but it's in communion with Rome and we see logically we believe in the Catholic teachings and we believe in the Catholic Church and all that it's very very much so very Catholic but with the Anglican flavor I suppose you could say which I'm personally at the end of a fan of so anyways yeah so I grab my parents they they they actually didn't they didn't join the temporary parish kind of all became confirmed at once my parents didn't actually ah go though they actually spent another if they didn't firstly come into communion with Rome for another um it was a couple years and then so then they went then my younger siblings kind of went but the him assist because I my parents was our parents did but then me my older sister we both not we we didn't do anything we kind of just me we went to the church and all that but we wouldn't you know we wouldn't take eucharist because you can't do that much here at Catholic so we were kind of going to the church and not really know using the sacraments or anything but then so it was a matter of years of just being like that not really no not not really engaging I mean I've been an altar service whole time actually I still am so this is kind of awkward to have an officer who actually isn't even confirmed Catholic at a Catholic Church but that's how it was because it's a small parish and they needed me quite honestly so what happened was that meeting my sister we decided yeah we get our research we did all the all the you know kind of reading and preparation that we had to do and then we became part of beauty and confirmed in the Catholic Church just as fast Pentecost so that six months ago congratulations thank you it's amazing so I'll have to get your sister on here yeah she'd be another great person to have on Ash in the bill I thought that her and her fiance oh man you need you need to meet her fiance King he'd grow up a hardcore Protestant and he's also becoming Catholic because he was also someone who searches for the truth and the truth yeah so what were the stumbling blocks if any usually it's the papacy infallibility and and Mary what were the stumbling blocks for you and to a lesser extent you can talk about your sister stumbling blocks if a difference probably well my I'm not sure she had the same stumbling blocks or not I am I think her and I both had a similar similar one III recognize the importance of Mary and I pray that he'll marry sometimes but I've actually never I prayed the rosary once but I didn't do it very well I I'm soaked to this point I've never really properly prayed the rosary and it's something I feel like the Catholic I should be doing but um even though man I'm gonna confirm Catholic that's still part of me is like still kind of scared of it almost which is not not a good design but that was that wasn't really my biggest stumbling block I think the biggest one for me was um I did to me the biggest one was the Eucharist actually like it's really really hard to get my mind around that physical presence of Jesus Christ is in this bread in this wine like that is because if that's true like that changes everything yeah I like it it's uh I can remote buzz but some some Catholic intellectual riester and someone goes talks he he pretty much said like if the Eucharist is not the body and blood of Christ and to hell with her like it doesn't matter it's just some simple like bro who cares I mean similar saw something but fades like Catholic Church it's the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ and it's that's that's a pretty big deal on bayonets and that still is not something like it's don't want to see if you struggle with but something I'm very conscious of and I I take it very seriously they'll tell you that like if I feel sluttin slightly in the slightest bit addicted I should not receive the Eucharist I do not I take it seriously but too intellectually like affirm that it is this is like it's still difficult for me but I live by faith I'm taking that's that's what that is yeah that's what it's all about it's all about faith you don't need to you know have some sort of supernatural vision mystical yeah and every time I mean I when I am at mass I am exercising my faith right and yeah I know that there's a chance that I'm wrong I belong to a fall religion but that's just because I'm fallible but and I I do believe that I belong to the one true church that was founded by the god man Jesus Christ and therefore I believe as the church tells me to believe and I don't find it hard to believe but I'm not getting a you know I'm not getting a spectacular mystical experience every time I go Eucharist right so we need to we need to bear in mind that it is the faith that is being exercised we're asked to have faith to believe and to show reverence and to be humble before the sacrament and to appreciate that moment and the the gifts that are offered by Jesus Christ in the sacrament when we are humble before the sacrament and I can tell ya it's the it is the highlight of my week the the Eucharist because I didn't seriously and it's I'm sure it's the same for you and over the years you and I will grow closer and closer to Jesus Christ in the Eucharist and elsewhere but especially in the Eucharist it is the source and the summit of our via of our faith that's how the that's how Vatican 2 puts it in several ecumenical councils before Vatican 2 have put it and many Saints have talked about Eucharist as being this source and the summit of our beautiful faith so amen III agree 100% and so yeah it and like honestly like it's almost like it was at first at first it was like one of the stumbling blocks like it's hard to believe and now no I do I see it not way that you put it and I realize how important it is even even if still sometimes I'm like intellectually I intellectually I feel like I'm prideful sometimes and yeah dog I'm not humbling myself but I'm still thank God I still have the ability to obviously refrain from taking eucharistic I feel like I'm in a state in which I can't can't receive it and so yeah it's like when I realize that like that's what that's what it is like that's why why would how I not been Cod like my whole life I've been missing out you know though I want to talk do you have something to say about that um I really think this is a good point to talk about the sacrament of reconciliation confession and how how was it for you going to your first confession how did you feel going in how did you feel coming out and how frequently do you go to confession a month two months now is it to once every two weeks once every week once every month once every how often do you go I well I can tell you I should call I actually had plans of going inner them later because I I believe I think it's a good thing to go once a month and that's what I tried to do but I inevitably had failed so for me it's more than once every two months things I've done and I think again I've only been a Catholic for about six at a month so I've probably been rushing maybe two four times maybe five times girls count secret definitely no more than six times you know me a lot okay and Arthur do you have your sort of short list of your favorite things that you want without going into the nasty details well it there are dairy occurrence but it's not anything like this because I I think just blow a hole I understand how sacrament reconciliation how it is very like like it really is an important dude it's so important it's like I add another reason why like if a product like if other churches don't have this what are you doing like I it's I can't explain with words how important I really do believe it is and anyways it's a but every time that I've done it though I'll tell you that it's been more or less the same we're yeah I come in with my with with with the list I write down I prepared beforehand during my examination of conscience and all that and I actually free it's like I forget most of it when I walk out like I forgot like I mean I don't forget this is that this is not how it should go I don't necessarily forget the sin itself how it impacted me I forgot whether I confessed it or not which did I try to read off the whole page so it's like won't shoot while I hope I hope it's the same thing for my priest I hope he also doesn't remember any us but um but no seriously it's a guy - in another state where I'm almost emotional like I just to put it bluntly I feel almost emotionally emotionally detached like I'm just like I'm a robot I'm programmed to say to say these things and then and then leave and and I can tell you that man that might just because it's in a in a setting with another person in it and it's kind of awkward but um I've had it I've had several experiences where I've really really felt on I on a really deep level like like I'm like I'm in total tears and it's like like I need to cry harder than what's physically possible like it's I had 7 I get these every so often credibly emotional experiences you know that's the story in Isaiah where he where God asks Hosea the prophet to have a prostitute life yep and I realized that like I am that wife and I've been unfaithful to God night I really feel on a personal like I'm a deep deep love when I'm like you know it's no that was the moment I wish I could feel like that when I'm actually in the confessional because I feel like that's what you ought to be feeling when you're when you're you know professing your sins but also I have those like I have many of those experiences outside of confession but within confession I'm like emotionally detached yeah it's stage-fright - probably but yeah you know I I really I'm jealous because I want that that contrition I want those tears I've never had the tears I might be might be emotionally blocked or I might just be I might be just a typical man or I might just be you know spiritually immature but it's necessarily I heard it a lot and people people do talk about like man I wish I had those feelings and to that like just seal the deal listen to another podcast don't his name but he's up he's a lot better known is that the program was called Pines with Aquinas of something and okay and he was the one guy was talking to the other and and he was and and one one guy was like me who's had my name's exclude experience the other one was the more heady intellectual kind of guy he says well I don't have at least he said he doesn't have as many but he wishes that he would have those and I really like I really thought like the first time I ever had like I realized craps is what happens happening I I almost began to idolize that experience my big begin to see like almost like that that emotional experience becomes my step my own personal sacrament as in like in a mister you know it's like a it becomes a sacrament something I want to be getting it in it I it is deepening me my faith but it's it's not a real not a real sacrament that's institutionalized by the church it's just an emotional experience I'm having and it's like I almost start to I almost search for those experiences now and it's like that's it's not real if you're searching for it it's real when you're given given to you by God yeah and yeah and I also mean like you briefly mentioned that you're maybe I'm just your typical man or whatever but um yeah I I feel like personally I need a I'm probably a lot more emotional than your average do as well that doesn't mean keep it in mind it's not it's not it's not a bad thing that you don't experience those because I am I experience I've almost idolized those experiences like it's yeah we all need to accept reality as it is and accept the graces that God gives us yeah and yeah I don't chase after the emotion I mean I couldn't make myself cry I could I could work myself up to tears or officially unofficially if I do that and I remember back in the early days of my marriage my wife used to tickle me until I cried as an emotional therapy because she thought I didn't have access to my emotions so she would tickle me until I until I couldn't handle it anymore and I broke out with tears but haven't done that in a while and yeah but I don't chase down I don't chase down emotions and I yeah I don't necessarily trust my emotions and there's a lot of literature in the church from the Saints and the Church Fathers saying that if tears come naturally great but we shouldn't necessarily lean on our feelings as such not lean on our faith and on our our intellect needs to lead to a certain extent together with our conscience being to the intellect or reason and then the emotions of course come along because we're human beings even those of us who are macho manly men who don't cry yeah yeah sure I was being facetious there but yeah so let's keep exploring your faith journey because you're such a young girl you're such a young con guy what did your family and friends say did they say this is just a little step from your Anglican as a Baptist you know Baptist Church Anglican Church and you're just taking yet another little step or was this a it was this a categorical change for your family and friends that you and your sister took the took the leap into full communion with Rome is it a big deal or a medium deal or a small deal for your family friends bring small deal beautifully on the big deal for me I probably right but I mean like the rest my family already Affleck um but I mean ads in my mind meet my father my mother in my siblings my the rest of my family is not a Catholic I actually have no idea how how they see how I see that change um but just in general just when it comes to interacting with other other Christians who are not other same born Catholic it's like it's not to me if something I think of a deal I I see that you're there it's not about what church you I was illegally but like what church you belong to it's it's more about how how devoutly you're practicing and I do believe that the Catholic Church holds a fullness of a they'll tell you that but um if you're there there are many many people who are Protestants or more devout than I am let's put that way yeah I'm not I've said it many times I think there are atheists that are better Christians than I am I mean it's not a it's not a big stretch I mean this is part of being a Christian as' is accepting reality as it is and knowing where where you stand on that ladder of ascent you know and the the mystical ladder is intimidating if you read the great mystics of the church or even you just read it just read any kind of achievements of any of the Saints maybe young murderers or anyone I mean yeah I'm Sarah I'm scoring low on every I'm scoring low on every metric you know what I mean yeah yeah I know that feeling yeah I actually have my own I sponsor as I got confirmed I guess he's technically my god over now he gave me uh he gave me a book a ladder of divine essence-- by st. john climacus and it's it's about III think have you heard of it you yeah I just bought it from a Kindle because my friend came and isn't he a cure and Liz knee recommended it he and his brother Aidan Liz knew you might have heard them on my podcast they're starting I think they're starting or they may have already started a podcast where they're going to go through that book actually that's the content of their podcast I hope that they're doing it I hope that it's either started or it's going start soon and if yeah if they start to get cold feet I'll have to put some pressure on them to make that project happen because it sounds exciting but I I might process out actually yeah well I am in the process of reading the Phil Kalia which is the East that's what I want to read yeah yeah amazing amazing light it's the most life-changing book I've read it's a collection of writings but it's the most life-changing ministering writing that I've read since my conversion in during my conversion when I was studying philosophy for many years as a hobby I discovered obviously the Catholic philosophers and san agustin and he's the one that converted me to God and yeah and to the church but so saying that the students say the custody is my man he's my favorite my favorite saint because of that I'm a saint here oh yeah really and yes so later I was really really deeply affected by his writings and then of course all the Saints I just dove in and I read everything and there are a few highlights on the way but this fellow Kalia is really it's a different approach it's an Eastern approach it's a it's an approach and it's it's really really practical and that's why I'm that's why I'm excited to read it it's also very crippling in terms of shame and guilt like I'm such a loser and this book really this really this really humbles me this book more than a lot of the other the other books I read were like oh yes it's I can you know I can be right there with you in your speculations or in your your your love and devotion and all this about Mary and all these books I read but this book is really putting it the the target on me and my thoughts am i controlling my thoughts no I'm throwing my appetites no am i praying as I should know am I making vigils no am i standing you know as a penance no am i taking on voluntary penances not too many I mean very few so it's it's very sobering it's very sobering and I highly recommend it if you're if you're ready for that kind of thing oh man I don't even know if I'm ready well III understand what that kind of mean like into this this whole experience that I mean again obviously in Augustine's with my favorites because at the college I went to st. Augustine College named after him for a reason and also saying yeah just yeah a few throughout this college reading learning all the literature and philosophy all the stuff even just just that was a small taste of of this and it was already like and too much well you're you're a young you're a young person how old are you 20 and 21 so you've got your whole life ahead of you I converted at age 39 imagine how embarrassing that is Wow you know there's so many so many saints that have lived and died at the ripe old age of you know you know well before my conversion even started but there are other saints who converted late in life yeah Saint Agustin himself complained that he how late have I loved you lord no so I'm in good company there but of course I'm an embarrassment next to him but no there are Saints who convert late in life and it's not about comparing ourselves one yeah the other but I do you know I am jealous of you that you have this conversion experience and God willing you will nurture this faith this fledgling faith that you have nurture it this if you take anything if you take anything away from your thought with me it's that I want you to remember that you can lose your faith you have to take responsibility for this faith you have you have to protect it you have to build it up because if you don't build it up it's not just gonna remain flatlining constant it will decline you need to work at it you need to do your reading you need to do your prayers you need to love God you need to express your love to God always because if we're not if we're not improving then we are going backwards that's that that is one thing that's for sure in the spiritual walk with God right and for sure thank you very much like that I thought that is something that I need a hero it's something that's very important because I I can tell you it's it's is there there are so many distractions so so many ways to go wrong this isn't bad that well that could lead you away from the faith I mean it's I mean I I just just just last night I had this dream that I was obstacle it was like it's all snowy icy outside nas Clemmons giant Hill and mountain and at the top there it would suddenly became is really beautiful it was uh it was like all grassy the windows blowing the grass around it was beautiful and it was um yeah I was in tears now like thinking God like thank you God for giving no I heard forget for putting me here and then I kind of sat there looking and it was it was like a Ocean shoreline or something like that and then suddenly just people start appearing makeup room is a dream so that kind of happens the people appear without me noticing and I'm talking with these dudes these hippie kind of guys they're passing it around and I'm telling them how I'm like I can't I can't do that anymore like I've you know my experience with it has been you know it's been detrimental to my case it's this is just bad for my brain anyways as a young person and they they likely shut me and it was emotionally it was so it hurt so much like having these guy is that mean honest dreams are things are things of time on realistic but I just met them and yeah I had this emotional connections then it's like I I see myself in you and I feel like I am like you you were you were a brother to me we meant might not be on the same level spiritually but I like I love you and care about you so much and he just shut me away because I was sticking to my Christian principles and I was just and it's so easy to then I I had that weird dream just late last night and I almost I got a feeling is gonna come up in this conversation because and and this is where it is because that kind of those distractions is so easy to be part of this world as it it'd be so nice to be that I want to be that you know cool dude who will hang out with people and do whatever they want to do I'll be smoking weed or whatever having this big being the chilled New Ager kind of guy how easy that is to shock you from know an Orthodox Catholic faith it really is I'll tell you that's my biggest temptation in my life at the moment and it doesn't seem believing me it really is it's difficult yeah I mean I wanted to ask you because you are so young I wanted to ask you about puberty and girls and sex and all this yeah I'll be honest I mean that was something I struggle with as most people probably did but I can tell you like I'm very thankful to God that that really is not problem in my life at the moment and it hasn't been for the past two years so yeah because when you join the Catholic Church the women just flock to you during the Catholic Church you've got so many women to choose from kozelka there they always say okay right I'm kidding kidding again I'm just kidding bud I mean no actually the Catholic teaching on on sexuality is actually like it's a lot more it's a lot more clear and concise and strict tonight I know thankful for that and it makes sense I think I truly think it is the right right way it's right it's proper doctrine so that's how that's that's um but I put it that's kept me on the straight and narrow with regards to that to fit with with just sexuality and stuff but with which we've got like I think my big struggle that has to do with um I mean yeah it's got to do with like New Age thinking and your philosophy and I guess psychedelic drugs like I was really I I didn't I didn't get into them but they've been something because I go into a high school I was at every every high school it was such a prominent thing and it was you know people when they're in the 17 18 especially in the arts high school you're getting kinda a lot of that kind of stuff and that's always been like my biggest I think for me my biggest struggles trying to avoid them and not be too sucked into that kind of culture cuz it really does not it it what is it it's it's not nurturing you at all it's I just got a damages you spiritually and people feel to recognize the people people like you know do do drugs or whatever and they're like oh it makes you free if it makes it makes you think freely and all that and it's like not really it just makes you makes you a slave to yourself I think yeah I did a lot of not well not by anyone's standards I'm not going to press any one they wanted drugs I did but I did get involved in drugs in my adolescence and drugs and alcohol and luckily I have a weak Constitution so I couldn't push it too much but definitely a gateway to the demons and I exactly I got it I got into the New Age and finally you know after 25 years of New Age stuff I end up being an explicit Satanist like the Church of Satan sort of and Wow Anton LaVey kind of thing but know it all starts with you know sex drugs rock and roll one or jacket one or two take your pick whatever whatever works like the demons they want your soul and I mean they'll they'll offer you anything money yeah women drugs whatever you want whatever works best and st. Ignatius of Loyola says that they will always attack at your weak point so if your weak point is food the gopher they'll suggest nice food to you if your weak point yeah women they'll give you like opportunity with women if your weak point is money and power that's what that's what will be presented to you by the by the explicit permission of God they go before the throne of God and they say look this guy's weak for this let me tempt him with that and God says go ahead right ya know God will allow a certain amount of temptation just the right amount yeah we that we can handle with His grace exactly yeah yeah I like the book of Job pan talks about that where we're something like guy right or yeah yeah something similar happened showed but yeah the demons the demons got explicit permission a throne of God to to wreak mayhem in the life of job and his family and that's that's one that's one image in the Bible yep something to bear in like that that really oxide I've never even realized like such a simple idea I think oh they're gonna attack the weak points but I thought that you just thought helps me realize what my weak points are and it's you know Nathan you can ask yourself like I like to take it at like level even be like why do you have these weak ones you know do we arguing grow up with them or you know it's it's interesting to think about because I think the weak the weak point I've had and it's like I mean I think a whole reason why I've been sucked into the wage thinking or III was and still sometimes I guess kind of struggle with it um it's because I've and more more philosophy and just like looking at you know what the looking at the world through this lens that it's like pseudo-intellectual and it's like emotionally speaks to you it's really hard to explain but you know yeah yeah I'm sure you understand what I'm saying we're not it's not what the catheter just huges okay anything else I'll be the philosophes and anyway you don't understand the world that you get that are not from the Catholic Church or Christianity I says in general um have very much negatively impacted me and it's because ah like growing up I found that my listen I I do believe this is where we're a lot of like well partly why I'm here and why and I'm i whatever level I'm at my faith stems from this because when I was a kid like I've always like I say as long as I can remember like I'm I've been like four or five it maybe five or six but uh my way will they could lay awake at night my eyes closed and just think about like what's it like to be dead what's it what's what's um what's it feel like that the concept is infinity right I'm ending this what's that like I know I always try to picture like what's what is what would that feel like and you know I'd start getting dizzy and it's like you can't you can't comprehend it right so there are these things that are outside your grasp that you have to that you have an idea of but you have no you don't you don't know whether or not you're gonna face those personal you know is it very well I mean like if I if I at the moment we're not a Christian I believe that life is meaningless I could easily just be like I wouldn't care about what happened up to death in infinity as I understand it wouldn't would have no impact on me because I never an experienced that I'm only gonna my unconscious like I every dead and there's no like after death you're just unconscious it just like before you were born it won't matter but as like as a crowd as a kid I grew up I grew up with a Christian faith I didn't understand I don't think I understood heaven properly though because I'd still I'd still think about man what would it be like to see darkness for eternity I know it sounds like edging all that but like if this really is unlike my emotional experiences where I think about how I've been away from God I get all stems from it stems from this lack of meaning that that I excite style across on this culture and I see it everywhere and it's just it's so it's really sad and it's just like within these past couple years I'm so grateful that God's given me he's given me meaning like meaning of life was there all along and I just like you can't see it have you have you are you acquainted with Martin Buber Martin Luther or my Martin Martin no not Martin Luther Martin Martin Buber he's a Jewish philosopher no okay well I'm gonna put on good talk about this for a minute because it ties it with my picture and it ties him with him talking about right now is that I ever since I was a kid I've always you know I even now I still think about people who don't have like meaning in their life like what do they do there's if you really do look at Ecclesiastes it's pretty clear that everything under the Sun is vanity so that's all all this temporal pleasure all I guess if you're live your life is sex drugs rock and roll it's gonna all ecclesiastes now it points out all is vanity and it's just like everything under the Sun so above the Sun elsewhere God is outside of time that's where things do have meaning and it's reading Martin Buber and kind of helped me in a stand he points out that yawn he talked about like I I barely understood half that book because it's really hard three but I did get some out of it and it's like it only he's a Jewish philosopher but he almost like explain the Trinity but he talks about how he can't have love without a lover net beloved and it's like you know and love is the thing between the lover and the beloved you know what I mean and that's what that my picture I have that that's that's what I'm getting at is that you have two separate things you have well you have I guess you can see is Mary as the door in Christ is the first aid box that's two separate individual things and that loves relationship between them that's what gives anything meaning and but when you for those listening earlier he he said is it you ask me if my image was God the Father and I said sort of because I that's why I do see it I see it that way as well that that big big rectangle is God the Father and that small square that's us and life is meaningless if there is no God that blunt light bearers isn't meaning right I'd like someone to find a substantial way of explaining things like oh you can make your own meaning like that's a whole nother set of responsibilities you got to give yourself to give yourself a substantial meaning and if you don't you'll be just satisfied and you'll die alone and meet like it's really depressing got like other reasons I'm Christian is because I've felt this and I I and this ties in with why it has such like emotional I've had so many emotional experiences with God realizing I've turned away from them all I because deep down um like that's that's kind of where I've been my deepest existential kind of despair comes from this sort of thing it's like if if if if you if you're listening and you think about and whether whether you're if you're not Christian are you're not spiritual in any sense I'm telling you man there's you're missing out on something if you I don't know what your relationship with your parents were like it's like but tell me about love you had for your parents but love that they had for you and tell me if that means nothing it was yeah I I've not always I've never been a great like I wasn't always the greatest first kid growing up but um you know we were we've all been soldier involved in bad but one day I had something I did something in the past years ago and I confessed to my mother about it now I couldn't because it hasn't talked to her and I felt I felt bad about it so I cussed her and then she looked at me and she said I still love you and it was after a night and it's like it's a thing about our experience right there it's like I felt this terrible guilt and shame that I can't recover from and she said that she loves me doesn't matter but what I did she loves me unconditionally and later uh like months and months later I I still have all my mind whenever I talk to her honestly like it's still haunting me but took me grocery shopping and it sucks kind of but I'm like I'm more or less owe for it but what I'm getting at here is one day she just took me grocery shopping I'm still young like assume she's buying groceries and stuff but um she said you know she she she did this very kind thing for me she drove me home and then she just said like I love you and I hugged my mom and I just woke up I just walk upstairs and I just cried I realize like that right there that's god that's that's that's the love like God as for you and it's like if life is meaningless if that doesn't exist sure absolutely this is the I mean you mentioned the book of Hosea I mean that's a really apt so I tell ya because that that wounded relationship and just how loving and merciful our Father is and havin a few people I think have experienced it I'm I'm delighted that you had a sort of direct experience of that love and that forgiveness and in you know a concrete example mm-hmm with your mother and also in your conversion on a more spiritual level directly with the Trinity and sacraments and the church and so on and so forth you've you've tasted a lot you know but yeah as you as you go through life you're going to have more more challenges and are you're gonna have to build strength upon strength because if you end up in you know another situation where you feel like you're burdened you're going to need to remain flexible and sensitive so that you don't become a hardened middle-aged man with that's concerned only about financial security and old Ledger's and stuff like that right so there you have a whole your whole life ahead of you and I want you to remain flexible and sensitive to what matters most which is that with a relationship with God which you saw in analogy in your mother I've seen it all my mother I've seen it with that picture I was talking about earlier like I see it you see it everywhere once you but once you really think about it and that's and just talking again about that book by Martin Buber this this guy's not even you see he's a Jewish philosopher but he's still he's still got like all truth is God's truth I think what this guy was talking about writing about in this book is true but you can't have love without a lot of a love it it's just that this relationship it's just like two separate individual things people it's like life is meaningless without you know and it's really it's I was thinking I had this picture in my head about like you know people don't Elliot at this apart Evan realizes is it my car all all this new way to stop it's like that's what people want but they don't realize that they can't have that without Jesus Christ like I think and that's one of the reasons why I've said strengthen this all my experiences have strengthening that Catholic understanding of things is that we need Jesus Christ the logos the Word made flesh we need it Jesus Christ to order everything like to like literally order everything because otherwise it's just us falling humans on our own trying to reconcile us or something to ourselves I almost don't sure don't know that made sense but trying trying to be all unified and be happy by your on ourselves all I see right in that picture is little square all of humanity and counted together that's all of us I just do that once career we're not in relation to anything bigger know what I mean it's kind of hard to explain good yeah well I mean what comes to mind is building on a solid foundation that Jesus Christ and not building not building our fancy edifice is on shifting sand because you know in the moment like one one generation of human life is so fleeting that we could build a marvelous tower with all kinds of mansions in it and it's built on shifting sand but it's only with the passage of time it might be the next generation that sees it collapse it's it's only if we build on the solid foundation of Jesus Christ that we will have something that endures and the whole point of philosophy much less theology the whole point even of pagan philosophy is how to live the good life how to have enduring happiness so I mean I'm just I'm just reading today about the Alexandrian school in the early church and Saint Clement of Alexandria and his his pupil his star pupil origin who went astray a little bit from orthodoxy but there was a strong emphasis in that of what exactly what we're talking about you know like we need to build on the solid foundation and the Greek the st. Alexander excuse me Saints st. which I just call him Saint Clement of Alexandria said they're bringing philosophy Greek philosophy was what do you call that with a family bond a test not a testament but we have these different compacts or not contracts but we have like Adam and Eve had one and then the other covenant covenant exactly st. clement of alexandria was saying that the greek philosophy like the high point of greek philosophy with socrates and plato and aristotle yeah it was a that was a covenant before jesus christ came that was a sort of covenant with these greek people and that there was yeah there was truth in there that will lead to the catholic church eventually with the Incarnation which was fourth lining and st. st. Justin Martyr said something very similar earlier I think in the church history he said that all truth belongs to us Christians there's nothing there's nothing true there's nothing true that we should shy away from just because it comes from a pagan or from yeah from even from an atheist or whatever it likes accurately it all belongs to us and at all points ultimately to Jesus Christ and this is why I like about it can to the writings of attica too because it emphasizes it emphasizes the fact that there are elements of saving truth which belong to the Catholic Church but which are outside of her visible boundaries yeah the whole purpose of that is to ultimately have a way of bringing people into full communion so it's a really mysterious economy of salvation yeah a definite most definitely involves saving truths of the Catholic Church which are without without like outside of her visible boundaries so I just wanted to reflect on that it's sort of a general theme that I'm sensing from you know for sure I agree and I can even just all that ironic exactly what you're saying earlier it's like out as Christians we have to you you accept the truth as it is and you know I won't go wrong as you put in better words yeah you take the audience what it is and you just accept it because ultimately that's what truth is it's it's it can be it's painful and that's one of the things that I find a lot of uh a lot of certain worldviews philosophies I think like sometimes they they the de-spawn Oh think about positive things nothing can hurt you and everybody's like no the truth is actually brutal like oh yeah I'll say save my seat when I see ya they see you evangelical Protestants knows even being like Oh singing really it's good at this singing praises to God and all that but their soul is so like Miley and its present he is just thinking like oh man you don't know how much it's gonna hurt but then again at the same time it's like those people were probably spent last time purgatory than I am so it's honestly it's just I'm just not old but young cynical bastards so how are you gonna avoid purgatory that's my question to you how am I going to UM by a going to confession as much as I can and I never Tyrone I know I won't avoid it inevitably but I do know that I just I mean I I mean I can only put this but this way I know in purgatory is the only way out of purgatory is heaven you know I hope I go to purgatory so I'm gonna stay and I know I know is he painful but I know if the only way out Purgatory's heaven and that's what matters to me yeah a lot of saints say that if you aim for purgatory you'll end up in hell so you have to aim to avoid purgatory by going straight to heaven be a saint you have to be a saint in this life okay you have a name for that aim for that you aim for that aim high because you're if you aim low it's what's gonna happen it might not be a happy outcome so just aim a little bit higher every day and gather steam gather strength gather grace build your faith like I said build build build build build always up building and when your friends are trying to distract you and draw you away from the faith which they will yeah will like it whether they're conscious of their animosity or not doesn't matter you don't need to worry about if they understand what they're doing and why okay Jesus said forgive them they don't know what they're doing do you have to do the same thing with you with your friends and even your family if they start trying to pull you out of the church you're gonna have to persist and you're gonna have to suffer with Jesus Christ and you're just you're gonna have to stay in the church and keep your faith strong that's yeah that's my urgent strict warning to you yeah my advice yeah thank you I agree I'm literally gonna write that down right now because like I man that's like that's something was terrifying advice you've ever been given and yet I know it's not true yeah there is in the Second Vatican Council also I know I'm harping on that a lot but a lot of you take documents a lot of beautiful documents I recommend you read all 16 documents especially because it's very controversial among so-called conservative Catholics traditional Catholics right-wing Catholics whatever you want to call them said if accantus and whatnot that Vatican 2 is no good but it is a beautiful set of documents a beautiful council and one of the things they teach is that there's the universal call to holiness I mean this is the traditional teaching right what they're emphasizing it at Vatican 2 the universal call to holiness we have to be Saints and one of my favorite Saints is a very modern saint of the Opus Dei Josemaria Escriva denounced his name right but he was a Spanish Saint the Opus Dei he really emphasized that too becoming a saint in your more mundane ordinary boring unseen unpublicized life that's where it's at that's where it's at and even many of the great Saints like Saint Therese deliciou she was a hidden saint many of the Saints were hidden Saints suffering for Christ suffering for their fellow sinners and suffering for their own sins first and foremost and then suffering with whatever excess they have of penitence and penance applying that to family and friends and even their enemies some of the most touching stories you can read of the Saints is applying their indulgences and all their extreme graces to their enemies like mortal enemies people that are hating on them and trying to kill them and some in some cases successfully killing them really mind-blowing and very inspirational for us little Cubs so do you have any other topics that you really wanted to cover before we wrap up it's been about an hour here and we did 45 minutes of tech support that presentation um no I'm not honestly it's like I I thought about like oh man what am I even gonna say I I kind of said all that I wanted to want to say I admire not been as clear as I wanted it to be but anybody anyone before this thing and it still is thing and thinks what is it what does it what's up with this guy I this put this way the things that I've talked about and I've described in like my my experiences um no very very much my a lot of my unlike understanding of God and and all that it does come from my it comes from my personal like a majority of it comes from my personal experience but but much I have to be fair though quite a fair bit of my personal experience it has been educated and you know it's come from me cease studying you know philosophy and Christian history and Christian philosophy like it's it's so it's not conclude you uneducated say that if it weren't for my experiences here at this Augustine college that I wouldn't I wouldn't have I got believe God's work through this College like my entire life seriously revolves around this college just weird um but without without the experience of being here I wouldn't I wouldn't have the eyes the ID right at the moment I wouldn't I wouldn't see things no idea and here's the thing it's like there's many outside of Augustine like I'm in many other side of this colleges okay I put this many things that are not even Christian I don't have to do with my education anything that have also taught bad will spell them to me and then again also it's it's like you know God speaks to people in certain ways and I believe God's spoken to me through through my experiences and through all this so yeah um and I the reason I say that is because you asked me how I really it's something as a Catholic that I should think about how how how strictly or not a strictly how much I'll humiliate myself that adhere to exact because like I I agree that if I am I am heretical in any way I need to get that corrected and I know that the Catholic Church would do what it can to help me through that after all the church is truly a hospital I can tell you I still I still struggle cry like I'm still even even if I'm I'm a weirdo I'm some ridiculous big guy who can't articulate things or anything even even if I should be humbled what was beyond anyone I'm still full of such pride and in this too I think but yeah you got to get used to that unless you get some extreme graces from God that's gonna Humble you permanently like in a permanent way and make you a saint a saint that will be analyzed like that level of Saint where you're recognized as a saint you're gonna have to struggle with pride that's the big one and it's going to last yeah probably lasts until the day you die that's the sort of pessimistic view yes the optimistic view would be that yeah just keep availing yourself in a worthy manner of prayer and the sacraments as per the church's instructions and you'll squash you know with God's help you'll overcome your pride that's the optimistic view but I've been you know I've been Catholic for 10 years and I'm I don't think my needle has moved I mean maybe maybe I'm more prideful now than ever right I'm not improving I'm not I haven't been improving on that on that metric so don't have too high of expectations although God can do what he wants with you I mean he could make a man he could humble you tonight and you could be permanently humbled right but I don't want you to be too disappointed if tomorrow morning you wake up and you're still yeah oh boy just brace yourself so that's it thanks for coming on the show and thank you for having me I really appreciate your you Kate you're going sticking through all the technical difficulties where they preach it it's my pleasure really nice to meet you really nice to talk to you again nice to see your face right I'm looking at your face right now this green and yellow this era this artwork it's the face of the artist that I'm looking at but well I'll definitely have you back in the future and double yeah we'll keep track by a Facebook and email and all that sort of thing and I'll be praying for you and I give I don't know if you know but I do enroll all of my guests in be in a perpetual Mass no you're gonna be receiving the graces of the mass every day you and your immediate family until the end of time you'll be receiving these graces what you do with those graces is up to you right but they're they're gonna be poured down on your head like so much blood of Christ right it's just like inundating you everyday what you do with it is up to you but I would recommend that you tune into that fact and you avail yourself of all that grace and you make make use of it take advantage of it and become a saint and then come and help me to be exciting that's the idea it's to spread spread the grace and to become a saint and to be ultimately to be happy with God forever so thanks again for coming on and take care of yourself but learn and we'll talk soon about that to you and we'll talk soon about that to you about okay