so we are live i'm here with aiden aiden how you doing what's up dude i'm well thank you very nice to talk to another lin lindsey lindsay linsley how do you say lizzy how did i say it lindsay do what everybody does oh i said lindsay that's the first time i made such things lose me it happens to everybody they're like oh that's so confusing it's like it's it is i guess because it's like pretty much something that everybody sees all the time and then it's just a little bit different so it like like the uncanny valley there's something so close yeah the the gap is is really far away and trips everybody up uh historically what the heck i'm looking at the name lisney what does it mean what does it mean what does it mean the disney family name do you know no no idea all i know is that it's french in origin and that you see it mostly in england ireland and australia having a hard time finding i should research it and then i'll let you know what's your last name ross it means outcropping or uh promontory or something like that it's uh a geo geographical feature okay land in scotland that was reaching out into the water and uh that's where the ross county is in ireland it's got that geographic geographical feature okay so is it is it technically gay like then good question i wonder it must be ross does that sound gaelic yeah uh a quick search reveals that there there's not a lot of information on the history and origin of the name lisney but i'm sure i'll look into it and i'll find out because it's always interesting but mine is trying to point to ourselves mine is pointed to the sort of geological features of the area where we're from in scotland yours might be the same you think it might be cringe uh i i was always told it was french so i just trust that don't ask questions that's the way to be around here just look down i love it i love the liz knees more than the lit lindsays more than the lady well our bill collectors call us lindsay so i'm going to try to introduce you like lindsay hey i'm going to try to find aiden and kieran lindsay and interview them a hundred times yeah you should i was gonna say um you guys were taught forget who you're talking about and how far-reaching his podcast is and i was just like and then david's like bottom of the barrel because he's interviewing karen and i week after week [Laughter] my wife just said are you gonna bloat your channel now with a bunch of loser interviews now she she doesn't want me to interview anyone since i interviewed pastor artur palowsky why is he famous or something he's famous and he's like a rebel uh anti-covet rebel went to jail and all that fighting the system and fighting the tyranny in canada she's like don't interview a bunch of losers you got you gotta you gotta promote you gotta promote that one interview you did to this guy she didn't know it was you that i'm interviewing but she just like well it's the it's not untrue you should just be going for more uh who is the uh who's the um the bizarre um fake pope that you guys yeah pope michael like that did you have some other stuff right there uh no because it's just so like it's just such a bizarre level of um twilight i have like self-deceit that i just like i can't stomach it like we all have family members that we deal with that are like like really awkward and that you're just like i can't even talk to you because it's just so painful and i felt like we're getting into bad territory and if i can like knowingly spare myself of that uh that type of cringe-worthy conversation i don't want to do it is he a said or is he something completely different than the state of a candidate he's what they call um conclavist okay no see what that is yeah it's where it's where the this is too bright uh it's where the um is it yeah i thought it looked kind of good i prefer you like it yeah it's going to blind me um is it it's it's okay i'll leave it on i'll leave it on for the video because my video camera doesn't take the light too well obviously um uh what's your mug bite what does it say on your mug it doesn't it's uh it's canoe and woodstock because they make everything better but the i actually believe it or not i have a lot more respect for the conclavists who actually go ahead and elect a pope even if it's only with six votes in the case of michael six votes and it was half of them were his family members um uh i have more respect for that than the set of a cantus because if you're catholic you have to have a pope where's your paper get a pope get the bishops together i don't care if they're only three bishops get them together and get a pope so i have a lot more respect for uh pope michael than i do for uh any sort of a candice um it sounds weird to say but it's just like you if you're gonna be if you're gonna claim to be catholic get yourself a pope period yeah i i get that too the saints um drive me nuts just just their whole outfit it's just um just such an unappealing spirituality if you could even call it that it's just like so rigid and like holier than that self-righteous it is yeah and also there's just something i don't know why i equate good spiritual health with like fluidity um because that's also a real mistake too because there has to be borders in place um but uh like when i see like shave face wear a suit um so that's why you like me total sloppy mess yep actually yeah yeah that's part of it man because like like there's um oh kieran was talking to you about right and left yesterday and whatever the royal path is i have no idea what that is um that's the road to burger king isn't it i think i think that's what it is all i heard was all i heard was whoppers the whole time no but you're kind of uh subversive and in sometimes i feel like intentionally uh what's the word uh devilish yeah but um which my wife also calls me a little devil um no what's the word uh a contrarian you're just like a contrarian just trying to just be exactly yeah yeah but like i mean because kieran was saying oh yeah you're obviously traditional in some real ways and then not so obviously um uh liberal in other ways but not i don't even know if liberal would be the appropriate word to use but um but if you know we're to follow jesus and his church jesus was always and is currently always at the center and so it's always like a real temptation to go too far one way or the other because it's like like gotta go sit in my camp and uh it's way less comfortable to be where you are everybody hates david yeah i um i'm not comfortable with my position because as you said there's that tension that can never get resolved but the reason that i i don't adopt a contrary position just for the fun of it i adopt it because i want i want to cling to certain principles and those principles are pulling me in different directions for example with pope francis i love him and respect him and the pepsi is the most important thing for me but i with certain things that i think are important like evolution and the coveted situation and all that sort of do you believe do you believe in evolution no i do not um you don't believe in evolution okay you're a creationist yeah young earth creationist i that's a shorthand way of saying it but it's like the traditional catholic position is uh the first 11 or 12 books or whatever it is of genesis or primarily uh history like sacred history and they're to be interpreted in the common sense sort of way like this stuff happened the flood and the tower of babel all that stuff happened you know sure um and it's just that evolution is philosophically untenable i cannot believe in in evolution like molecules to man evolution it's just impossible like just based on pure reason so even if i lost faith in christ and his church i would still be a creationist right before i became a christian i was a creationist because i was uh you know i was a hard solipsist at one point i thought i was the creator of everything including this fantasy world that i inhabit um and when i became a monotheist obviously i believed that god created everything out of nothing and i it never occurred to me to say well yeah he must have made billions of years of evolution like that just it's just not it's never been an option for me even as an atheist i didn't believe that so um and it is kind of it is it's not a deal breaker because i can respect uh a catholic saint who doesn't happen to believe in special creation and that uh has been lured into darwinism and evolution i can i can respect a catholic saint who who is wrong about that you know i don't have any problem with that and if the recent popes are wrong about that it's like okay well we're like you and i discuss often we're all wrong about most things tons of stuff tons of important stuff you know it's not about it's not about the intellect catholicism is not about the intellect it's about the will right and if we think about the the fact that uh god created us and he is the author of our intellect if he wanted us all to be geniuses he could boost our iqs as much as he wanted to it's not important not important at all and if we think about the catholic family that's adopted a bunch of or gave birth to and is loving and taking care of mentally challenged children it's the it's the poster of the holy family it's like that's the that's the pinnacle of the holy family you know these mentally challenged people and people with other kinds of challenges that are supported by the family and not just killed and disposed of because they're inconvenient right right and it's the same thing with every other kind of defect except the defect of the will that's the one that can send you that to hell when you're like no i'm not going to do god's will i'm going to do my will so that's the one defect we have to take seriously but i just watched a show about sorry i'm talking a lot but um i'll let you talk but i just watched a show with my wife about uh the intellect and iq and the gene so-called geniuses and what is genius and oh wouldn't it be exciting if we figured out the science of the brain so that we could have we could turn everyone to into an intellectual genius with a high iq i'm like no that's not exciting there's nothing exciting about that these people are evil you know i i mean you know they showed stephen hawking like this guy is the epitome of evil for me stephen hawking and those guys it's just like total godless hubris and it's like no let's why don't we have on mainstream television because this was a mainstream show with william shatner why don't we have the catholic saints being venerated and honored and instead of speculating oh saint paul might have been a homosexual that's what kieran told me yesterday that's not his opinion that's something that he had heard from that anglican bishop that your uncle mark talked about so i'll let you respond to all that but then i want to talk about your uncle mark in his video if you watched it sure i did watch it and um backed up a little bit um a couple things i wanted to say that are not my own words which is cool um saint teresa of avila said that prayer uh is not about thinking much but in loving much and so like thank god for that because if you ever read a manual on mental prayer um it's really heady it gets really deep and it's just like oh how am i supposed to ever do this like i can't i like the the act of meditating upon something seems to be so thorough and so um above our grasp it's like watching like a power lifter you know deadlift five or six hundred pounds it's like well yeah because when you look at that you don't see the million steps that it took to get there and believe me um a lot of human beings can get there um uh mystical union is possible for every human being pretty much i mean pretty much and people that um it's not tenable for um can usually get there through other means like just vocal prayer which is awesome you know that's like really cool that we can we can scale the heights and and meet god wherever we're at because um you know that's usually what uh what's called for um so where was i where was i going with that teresa teresa of avila and um and prayer and then also um we were talking about genius like levels of intellect um uh there was an author john green who wrote looking for alaska and he wrote the fault in our stars a bunch of preteen books um they're not actually preteen excuse me they're more like team teen books but they're really good um and he in an interview spoke about genius as being circumstantial and not something that people can just hold for um their entire lives or not everybody can hold for their entire lives he's cited mark twain and how he um brilliantly wrote joan of arc and then in the same breath wrote another book that was an absolute uh piece of garbage and um i don't know what i don't know what the piece of garbage work was but i like the idea that genius is um is possible in some areas and then impossible in other areas just wasn't even a single human being i was in a science class a couple years ago and my teacher was a genetics um uh i guess professional he he did a lot of stem cell work and did a lot of um uh like artificial insemination and he was talking about how for one of his graduate courses he manipulated um a chicken embryo to grow a third leg and he was really proud of this and we they started talking about epigenetics in class and one of the smartest students in class that i really liked said something about like um uh like oh yeah it'll be great one day like we can modify children so that like we can give them hair color or they can avoid any kind of sickness or any kind of disease and i said uh doesn't that like don't you think you know that could be a really bad idea and he's like why would i ever think about that and it was it was like you're smart enough to like probe into the depths of this uh new technology but not smart enough to think like if it would be appropriate to do that and to me that was really disturbing that it's like you know i'm a solid c plus b student in those situations um but i was the one sitting there saying like hey we shouldn't do that because um they made a movie about it and it's called jurassic park and everybody dies in that film um and the only person that was saying like no we shouldn't do that was jeff goldblum so like uh you know if jeff goldblum says no then uh maybe we should all slow down and like start asking more questions start probing and start seeing if certain things are appropriate because uh um how old are you how old are you at this time when i asked that when i said that yeah uh 26 okay 27 maybe it was like first or second year of marriage so this was when i was maybe i was 27 because it was when i was doing some stuff prerequisites for nursing so you date your you you used your uh first-year marriage second-year marriage that's kind of like in the old testament days it's like the first year of the reign of the new king and the you know that was sort of the sign that you'd made it as the king of the tribe or whatever it's like when they start dating everything according to your reign so you have your queen now what's your queen's name rachel rachel nice name yeah yeah that's a good name yeah i never met a rachel that wasn't beautiful by the way they're always beautiful i was thinking it's a good looking i was thinking i should interview or not because she's beautiful but because she's she's a lit a lizzy oh i mean i meant to say i can't say lisa lindsay is she a lindsay she's a lindsay is she she really dedicated herself to um uh learning and spelling the last name correctly because as soon as we got married she changed it and she was like does she have this one does she have a phd in distinguishing lizzy from lindsay she does wow you bet she does yeah and she is she is a lisney wife uh through and through um listening women that are married into the family are very tolerant human beings that sit there and usually roll their eyes a lot because they hear the same tired old uh jokes um over and over and over again or see the same inappropriate um has she heard that because she heard that jennifer is gay joke i don't think she's heard am i jennifer i can't no no he's he's jennifer oh kieran's jennifer yeah um no but she hears karen get called gay all the time and uh and vice versa i called him and i left him a voicemail the other day and i started talking like this i'm like hey bro or no i i sent him a message where um i was making fun of back to the future because uh the power of love was on the radio and i i did the whole like you need to tell me it's 8 45 i'm late for school and then i sent him that and she's like you know i knew you're talking to karen because of the voice you were making and i'm just like yeah that's probably really awful did you get my email i just got off the phone with matthew murdock dude how's he doing he promised me that he might do a live stream with me this afternoon he promised that he might do it he promised that he might well i mean like he seems like he's open to it he wants to do it and i really desperately want to get him on because it's been it's been too long how long has it been um i can google it to find the answer like everything else in life but he's he seems a little bit a little bit low energy let's just put it that way i mean i want to pump them up and get them pumped up who's the other gen who's the gent with the accent that you have that's probably mining karen's age and was like in the realm of um jen or gent what did you say uh gent um uh he is like fiercely catholic very in love with his faith um i think he converted from protestantism um he's had a lot of interactions with karen he's had a couple with me he referred to me when i had my beard shaved and my i didn't have any product in my hair he called me derek prince um in the comments was he ever actually interviewed by me on the show i think he was nicola nicola or oh okay okay okay yeah yeah yeah nick crisic yeah okay chris yeah yeah he wants to uh he wants to to chat with you boys he should that would be really cool yeah yeah so we'll do that we'll do that we'll make that happen uh easter weekend maybe i i'm working all weekend saturday sunday i know dude it sucks i work yeah dude it's um it's uh one of the worst things about work is that there's always a weekend um where they schedule me saturday and sunday and i have i have one rule about my schedule because like we're supposed to sign up for our schedules and uh i'm like you can schedule me whatever days you want the only thing is is that i go to mass on saturdays or sundays so please like if you're going to schedule me on the weekends you can schedule me weekends just don't schedule me a saturday and a sunday back-to-back i don't like it and it happens without fail once a month so i just take it i just do it it's like offered up man that's right that's what they say february 8 2020 was my last interview or what conversation with matthew murdock wow but um i've got the funny thing is i've got i've been thinking you know i took quite a break uh in 2020 2021 and i took a break from i was going through a rough patch and i think i'm coming out of it you know things are getting better spiritually for me and mass attendance and this sort of thing so i thank god for that um but do you have more access to the sacraments now yeah yeah i got complete access now so direct correlation are you know are you thinking yeah yeah yeah there's direct correlation for sure like i mean i'm just weak so i need i need uh i will default to my sinful ways so i need prayer in the sacraments and my prayer life suffers without the sacraments but um the funny thing is i'm thinking about going back and i've got a couple more matthew murdoch gems in the archives that i haven't published yet that i haven't edited because back in the day i used to record long conversations and edit them but it's very time consuming that's why i do the live thing but i'm thinking of pulling out some more matthew murdock uh because there's some real gems like uh he's just such he's such a natural such a natural guy and he he comes out with stuff uh that's um you know actually just how do i characterize that you know like a child when a child speaks and they they just delight you with the uh that spontaneity and that purity and that sort of thing like that that's what i like real consumer he consumes so much data like um he listens to so much he watches a lot i think he reads a lot i can't really like i don't even know if if this speaks to who he is now anymore but i've known that he's like watched hours and hours and hours of debate and yeah like he's one of those like auditory learners where he can just like process and learn and i hate him for it because um it's like dude that's so it's like here and there's like a natural capacity to learn whereas me i have to like steep in something for a long period of time and uh get comfortable with it and like lose all uh anxiety surrounding whatever it is and then even then there's still tons of even then at my best it's usually like b plus um it's never like a work and so if i get into something and i'm really good at it or i have a real aptitude towards it um i'm always like right below top tier which really hurts my pride but the cool thing is that because it takes me longer to process and to like get things um they usually stick with me longer or i usually stick with them for longer parts of time so like kieran's more naturally fit than i am like just naturally as a human being but i for the past uh 12 or 13 years i've been exercising consistently and i know quite a bit and so like i know that i don't i don't think hearing exercises regularly i don't think he like puts too much stock in it but when he wants to he can he's very good at it um and he could probably still like absolutely destroy me in any of those areas but it's nice because i've had a consistent relationship with this with this um discipline and i think that that's really that's really served me so even though i'm not the best and even though like there's tons of people that know more about me i have gotten to a working relationship with it where i can do things that serve me and that are fun at the same time and are effective and so um maybe the goal in the prayer light or in the spiritual life too should be the same where it's not necessarily to be the to be the best but to be the best for yourself clean shaven and to sit up straight with the tie that's the goal i think that's the goal of spirituality i'm not sure but i think so based on the youtube ratings system i think that's that's the goal that's right but you know i think you know i always think about uh religion in terms of a romantic relationship and it's like you know uh the the key to successful marriage is compromise and uh um oh you know adaptability and you call it fluid fluidity or flexibility or um putting the other's will ahead of your own will and these sorts of things occasionally and when it's appropriate and being firm when it's appropriate which right is you know it does it does there are circumstances where i have to be firm but um so being the best like you know the sign of what is the sign what what is a good marriage a good marriage is one that's loving and lasting right right and there's mutual self giving and self sacrificial love like that that's it i mean it's not an iq test again we're back to the intellect versus the will it's like it's it's so obvious to me that it's about the will and it's about love uh and i'm still talking about marriage but i'm also talking about our marriage to christ and it's just it's so obvious and so when i think about when i think about the left right dichotomy and how i get excited by right-wing rebels and fanatics and even conspiracy theorists i get excited by them but i also am married to the pope and in this case pope francis who's controversial and who i disagree with in some ways some important ways when i think about that tension what gets me through and the reason i can sleep at night and i'm not tossing and turning oh i got to resolve the tension got to resolve the tension ah which cap am i in which uh which pigeon hole do i fit neatly into no no i i lost zero sleep over that because i'm in a relationship with jesus christ and we're in a fallen world and i'm broken the pope's broken and uh you know these uh right-wing rigid nut jobs that get me excited they're also broken so right whatever whatever you know the one that's not broken is jesus christ he's he's the one he's the way the truth in the life and i'm not going to lose any sleep over these tensions like oh where do i fit in the which checklist which which box do i fit in and it's just like who cares literally who cares yeah i mean i guess that's what happens in adulthood is um or it's supposed to happen in adulthood in our teenage years we identify with people and ideologies and things and we like yeah groups um you know uh music art uh all the above and then we like we like make an outfit for ourselves out of these things and then we can you know confuse our identity with um with whatever that image is and then in adulthood you slowly like if you're pursuing a relationship with jesus you're slowly like peeling those layers that you've built up for yourself off and every time you think that you've like peeled you know the last one off you've got another one on that you're still doing and um still trying to like strip yourself down and uh like in the case where you're talking about like um there's like right wing rebels and um you know the pope francis lovers and um you know uh any of those things those those folks are still um still identifying themselves with their like with all those outer layers and it's like i just kind of want to know who aiden actually is and right now it's a coward most of the time i'm just a coward and uh um and it's like okay all right well you know at least i know who i am and then i realize how quickly i go back to all the layers that i used to put on and i'm like putting them back on because ooh pretty ooh nice you know and it's like um just kind of this weird fight to uh um keep all the things that have been stripped off stripped off did you have any did you listen to all of kieran's thing you listened to all of kieran's yesterday's thing or no no i didn't because i was um i listened to it when i worked out and after i was done i turned it off and i went in and i stuffed my fat face full of food and so that's that's all i can only process a couple things at one time so i was like all right so now i'm gonna hang out with the wife watch the new girl and eat this eat this uh big plate of salad and let me tell you it was delicious wow so um i should eat salad it's a good idea i should like i love it but i just don't prepare it because i gotta wash the lettuce like uh washing the lettuce get the bags dude or is it do you not do bags in canada of salad is that not like a thing uh bags of salad um yeah i think they sell i think they sell it well i just i i mean my favorite salad is cabbage salad so you don't have to wash it it's shredded so like shredded cabbage i love anything that's cabbage related i love it even though it allegedly gives people gas but whatever i mean i've had gas my whole life so i just don't notice the difference but um you know it's just anything that's cabbage i love it especially sauerkraut have you ever had uh vietnamese fla the soup no noodle soup rice noodle soup they do cabbage in that dude so banging um go get yourself i can't do it you can't i don't eat garlic or onions really yeah ever never only by accident and then it's i'm sick for three days oh you get you get you get physically ill from it yeah never mind don't go on that measure then but the reason i'm talking about uh what was i talking about with you oh yeah i'm talking about uh your brother and he had an interesting perspective which i was a bit a little bit surprised and disappointed because he's like oh no no no no uh you know as christians we can't rebel we can't be rebellious and i i thought i thought that maybe that would be something that you would say but i thought that kieran would be like yeah you know like uh rebellious and like angry at the the tyranny of the governments and a lot of basically no it's like we need to be calm and peaceful and just go about our business serving christ and i thought that's what you would say but i was very surprised at his anti-rebellion stance which i understand like i mean i'm anti-rebellion too but um you know uh we we do not like like the prophets of of old they did not want their brothers and sisters being enslaved by a satanic system by the idolatry and the idols and the adultery and everything else and they stood up to the political tyrants and uh i thought i could get a little bit more of that from your brother so it's a little bit surprised disappointed disappointed yeah like he's he's softening he is softening which i'm happy about um the orthodox thing is good for him i think um which is nice because uh um in orthodoxy polemics is um rampant like it's uh uh it's like that it's what it's aggressive yeah um and um i don't know if kieran would say he sees it in catholicism because i honestly maybe i'm just biased because i'm catholic but i think that catholics are less polemic in nature than than than the orthodox are um i was in an orthodox chat with karen for a while with his buddies and um uh there were a couple times when i got really really irritated by things that were being said and uh and it wasn't by kieran um uh and kieran once rightly pointed out he's like well this this group is called let us be a tentative so let's you know he's like it's about it's about talking about certain issues that's what the group was formed for and i was like oh okay and it was like that's a good point i wasn't really understanding the ground rules of this whole thing so i kind of just backed out of the group um slowly because it was just like well this is this isn't spiritually edifying for me this is just people like posting orthodox videos of this and that and like like one of the last straws was this um orthodox monk who was shouting at the um at the pope as he got out of a car and it was like the the pope is a heretic the pope is a heretic and um it's like it's like okay congratulations i mean like i like what like what was one in that interaction like what was possibly like what was the good of that i mean like jesus didn't like you know shout out about herod or pontius pilate or about um caiaphas or um or is it is it cal caiaphas who was the who was the high priest the highest priest was caiaphas i think yeah he didn't do that i mean they slapped jesus in the face and the most he ever said was like hey like if i'm wrong like i'm wrong but why'd you slap me you know what i mean so like i see a lot of um and i see that in a lot of orthodox writing too because i love a lot of orthodox writing because it's really there seems to be this threat of continuity in um and polymism that um you don't see too much in catholicism and you do see it in catholicism but you just see it in different in different veins so like you have like the camp that follows teresa of avila and st john of the cross and you see a real threat of continuity that goes through that but i realized that like any time i i i get into one of those camps myself i find myself getting irritated with them so like the things that i get irritated with the palamus for um which is seemingly like all the polemics and all of the like if you don't say the jesus prayer you're not um you're not on the right path you know that kind of thing because they refer to the jesus prayer as the prayer say the prayer which is good i love i love that prayer but there i feel like there's this insinuation that that is the only prayer worth praying and it's like that that to me then becomes too boxed into this like one area where it's not there's no versatility there's it's not addressing something and something gets missed however i'm going to say in the same breath when you get into saint teresa of avila when you get into saint john of the cross you get the same kind of um staunch um attitude um where people get really comfortable in that camp and they're like this is right this is this is the theology we have to we have to go with we have to stay with and you get this kind of um um rigid adherence to it that produces a polemic that just pisses me off and it's um you know i don't know maybe that's just my pride striking out against it but um dan burke and connie rossini in the catholic world do a lot of stuff they wrote a book on the rosary called the contemplative rosary and basically it stated uh it basically gave some really good instructions for how to pray the rosary contemplatively or in a contemplative manner but also the more that i pray the rosary the more that i'm like nah a lot of this stuff was garbage um because it's it's kind it's coming from the camp of like um approaching um i'm just picturing like you buy the book from amazon you open the front cover and on that first inner page like an endorsement there's a testimony from aidan lindsay that says this is a bunch of garbage and it's not actually because that's like consider i gave that book away because it really is edifying oh you own the physical book too yeah and i read it front to back and i kept referencing it and going back to it because it was really good and it referenced um in rosarium uh maria or whatever whatever the apostolic letter was by saint john paul but it was really good but but it basically presented the rosary like as a means to reach contemplation um but only in the circumstances in which it described and then it was basically like yeah you need to practice this form of mental prayer for this to mean anything and then approach the rosary this way and i was like well that's a good direction but that's also uh not the truth capital t that's your opinion of how this should be approached and prayer can be approached from many modalities and if you refer back to a conversation that you and i have had maybe even a year ago you said well aidan like if somebody has a little obscure devotion that's like the back door into prayer and it's like a video game inside of a video game inside of a video game thing but it still gets into the lord that's that's a very that's that's a very legitimate option and that answer pissed me off at the time because i was in some camp but then the more i started thinking about it the more i'm like no that's absolutely true there have to be all of these varied ways to reach people because people are are varied themselves and it's only until we start to get really cocky and annoying with whatever modality we're sitting in and we start pushing it onto other people because we ultimately want everybody to experience the joy that we're experiencing um that's when i start to think like okay something has to be shed something has to um be be axed here because um what do i know about anything so it's like probably good to get a variety of different things to get a bunch of different tastes and to stick with those couple of things um consistently over a period of time so you can develop a true um working relationship and and opinion if you can even call it that of whatever it is that you're doing yeah yeah did you um did you listen to by chance my talk about the consecration of russia no i didn't you did like a solo talk i recommend it yeah i recommend it not to self-promote but it was basically for you because i did it for my friend uh matthew bates who lives in australia he said do a video on the consecration do a video on the consecration so i'm like okay i just flipped on the camera and started talking and it just so happens that i'd had a good experience praying well not praying the rosary but i did pray the roaster but my good experience was during the 15 minutes of meditation on the mysteries during the first saturday devotional if you if you're doing it i do know um anyway you you have to listen to it because i thought this is for aiden because aiden loves the rosary and he loves um exploring or discovering the different approaches to meditation on the mysteries of the rosary and stuff like that so i i had um i'll give you a spoiler alert now but you can still go and listen to it i hope you'll listen to it um the spoiler alert is i had sort of like a semi-mystical experience while i was in church meditating on the mysteries and the takeaway other than that sort of emotional experience that i had which was very moved emotionally was that there's a sort of inversion and it's not a satanic inversion it's a catholic inversion of the mysteries that i discovered or invented or whatever and just to put it in a nutshell really quickly the sorrow of mary during the joyful mysteries and the darkness of mary in the luminous mysteries and the joy of mary during the sorrowful mysteries and the mundane or normal or ordinary regular uh perspective on the glorious mysteries oh that's awesome so it's like uh it was quite trippy when i sort of discovered that and it was a palpable thing like i started meditating on the joyful mysteries but it was just i was just struck i had placed myself in the presence of mary as she asked us to do during that during the meditation on the mysteries and it's the first time i've properly done that and i'm hoping to take the time to properly pray the rosary i i pray it every day but i don't pray it with attention and placing myself and being in church really helped okay being in church before mass after confession that really helped oh yeah definitely definitely so and the organ with organ music was playing and it was just like before the mass started and wow it was just amazing so anyway that sorrow struck me the sorrow of mary during the joyful mysteries wow that was amazing you know and uh it's trippy it's trippy it's trippy it's equally triply trippy doing the inversions of the other ones and you know you know i will definitely try that yeah so uh it was very exciting it's like one of the few times in my life where i have a breakthrough or i feel like something mystical or something like i connected in my prayer life as opposed to okay i have to pray so i'm gonna do this let's get over with bang and i know i harp on about this all the time and um i should do something about it rather than just complaining about it all the time to you but um i have this genuine experience and i can tell you it's so much better being connected during prayer it's like just so much better right why would we not take the time to connect like that and just it's called recollection that's what sanctuary survival always talks about right just gonna bring that up active recollection yeah mark and i were just talking about active recollection a couple days ago uncle mark um uh because he was uh given an assignment by the spiritual director about praying from the heart and he's like oh what is that you know it's really confounding him um and i texted him one day when i was at the grocery store my dude has your uh prayer of the heart coming and he's like well actually i started to like write out you know like what like i thought what he thought about prayer and one of the parts he was talking about like he's like it didn't really occur to me that i should be like sitting down and putting myself in the presence of god and uh it doesn't occur to us a lot of the time we just like sit down and just like bash it out but it's saint teresa said if you spend a year um if you send spend a year uh obtaining the skill of active recollection that's a year well spent and um like i agree like brother lawrence you know the practicing of the presence of god like your whole life then becomes a prayer just simply through awareness awareness of god's presence and um i think that that's uh there's something to be said about that because i like to speed through everything and i like to think about what's next and uh like how much can i get and how much is going to pleasure me and what's going to make me feel good so like those simple moments of like sitting down and taking a breath um that saturday the first saturday of uh of april i went to confession and it had only been two or three weeks since i did my previous confession i didn't have a lot of sins whatever so i got a light penance okay my light penance was hilarious my light push-ups no my light penance was pay attention to the mask nice pay attention be attentive to the mass be attentive to what i say because he's a priest he's like be attentive to what i'm saying and participate and whatever it's like oh okay that's actually it made it really simple it made it different it did make a difference because i don't think he read my mind or what but like i mean i do have a tendency to like pay attention and then like i'll get an idea and i'll drift off and i'll think about my idea then i'll come back and then i think about my idea and another idea and then i come back to the to being to being active so during that mass i would start to drift and then come back without going all the way like to uh fantasy land that's so the penance worked and uh you know i can't say got a lot more out of the mass than normal but i appreciate that it showed me just how it gave me i gave you a perimeter and it said don't pass this because this is it made it a little more important for you to pay attention during now and i kept looking at him thinking like is he watching me watching that's awesome though that's so cool i always give my mess or my uh my my priest what's up buddy you know because i make i make my free so uncomfortable because i always do prayer hands and i bow to him when he comes in down the aisle yeah and then when he leaves or whatever i'm the only one who knows no you idiot i say namaskar it's more polite blessings the words that's he's very uncomfortable with that but but i see i do the same thing during the uh what do you call it when everyone waves and hugs each other in the pews the great word the greeting or what that love or kiss or whatever i don't like that i'm off title that's one of the worst parts of mask i don't like it i don't like i wish they i like it when the priest doesn't do it but that's what i do i just do my little namaste namaste and i always like love it when i see the little old people doing the piece and tees and it's like come on guys like 12 that that's like the sign that we took up maybe next time i'll bring adobe i'll spark it up during that and like spark up the doobie big bomb all i could think of when we were outside today is like somebody like i was hoping it would be me just like like oh we're outside in mass like i could just light up what we're doing this first part of palm sunday do you smoke no i'm an ex-smoker i i used to smoke i quit you only smoke on special occasions like palm sunday exactly exactly did you hear did you hear karen's story about the guy eating chicken on the steps of the church but i didn't i didn't understand uh what the what the chicken meant was it just like it's the royal road it's the royal road you take a left at burger king you go to kfc right that's exactly what i was getting i was just thinking bucket of chicken and i'm like what's wrong with that i eat chicken outside of church i mean like what's going on there kieran i liked what karen was saying about peace yesterday about like um discernment like you can always follow um you know if something comes from god there's this certain peace that like overflows from from whatever that is and i think kieran's experiencing that and i think that that's really cool yeah um uh he's really enjoying like being plugged into his community and i think that that's awesome it's inspired me because i started and also my buddy tim inspired me um and tim is a part of kieran's community but there's something really cool about the way that orthodoxy approaches liturgy because it's like really like ingrained in um everything and so like tim and his wife pray um like all these like daily like prayers together and it started during covered when they couldn't go to church and so they started like like you know doing and the prayers would change for the day and i was like oh that's that's really awesome that's really cool that there's like interconnectivity there and that there's this like um connection to the whole body um that everybody participates in and it seems like it's a pretty common thing that if you're like actually on fire um those are the things that you're doing besides praying the jesus prayer and so kieran does that too i'm like you're your lectionary he's like yeah every day and i'm like oh man that's cool that's like the answer is yes but it's just an automatic yes and for me i'm like maybe i should do that so um i decided that i i needed to approach i needed to do some kind of pure form of mental prayer that was just you know um that didn't have beads connected to it just so i could see what what this would turn into so i purchased myself a copy of the daily lectionary so that i could go through and every day um practice some lectio divina with with the prayer readings and the cool thing is is that like with the daily readings there's the old testament there's the psalms there's the new testament so that like if one element doesn't speak to you you have a couple of other elements that you can pick up and you can pray with um so i get to practice dylexio and i also get to plug into um the body every day and everybody else gets to do it and it's also it's scripture so like there's this other element that acknowledges um our protestant brothers and sisters that um that uh uh you know you're you're um you're interacting with jesus through through the word of god and um that's been really really exciting for me can you show me the physical book yeah i think he's just amazon amazon just dinged the doorbell yeah they did yeah so can you just show me today's uh thing did my bookmark fall out no it didn't today we had the huge section in there but like like the readings from today yeah that's big yeah that's big yeah show me show me a random day that's not today so i can see your typical day so like here like uh-huh so it's two pages and i only have one section that i prayed from okay um and then but um do they do they have something do they have the non-scripture text that the priest would say the collect and all that no and i don't i didn't need any of that i just wanted something that was going to compile all of the readings for the day um oh wait i'm trying to how to show you my bookshelf again yeah um is that good for every year or do you need to no you need to switch it um because all of the days fall on different you know as the cycle comes is that my stuff what is it stuff that you bought me for my birthday okay so i can't open that happy birthday it's that for another 10 days 4 20. are you familiar with 420 yeah it's the cop sign for marijuana or whatever yeah i mean i mean you just showed your age right there david come on now 420 blaze it you know that's what we all mean i used to work at a head shop it was all a bunch of stoners and i was the only one that's straight edge really why do you work at a head shop if you were i walked in with my friend who i don't know why it went in there he's i don't know if he'd smoked drugs or what but uh i was chatting with the owner of the shop and my friend said oh my friend david does computer stuff and he's like hey do you want a job and i said sure because i didn't like my job at the time i had to do a long commute one hour commute on my bike every day so this was closer and uh i grew to really love this man this uh owner of this shop he's a good friend of mine now and i worked for him for a few years and uh it's a bit his name is pope michael huh and his name is pope michael no but it's a bit it's a bit ten a little bit tense now because he's totally gung-ho about the vax like he he wants everyone to get it and he thinks if you don't get it you should be stripped of all your human rights and everything else so it's been a little tiny bit of tension but i i i'm a living let live kind of guy like i mean you're free to have your opinion and if you want to try to wrestle me to the ground and inject me with an experimental gene therapy then i'll just take whatever evasive action is necessary and be the best man huh have you ever watched arrest development no oh my goodness you have to watch your wrestling i've seen i've see i'm aware of the show i've seen little snippets and the never nude guy and all that never knew guy happens to be breaking into somebody's apartment who he thinks is blind and he she comes home and she knows he's there but she can't break character and pretend that she's not blind and he's like rolling around the house like a cat and thinks he's really clever and um hiding against the wall and all i could imagine was you avoiding somebody in the same manner who's coming at you with a vaccination just slowly like rolling that's classic um so you wanted to chat about mark's conversation yeah yeah yeah did you listen to the whole thing the whole thing i went for a really long walk and i i i listened to it and it was great it was really cool he reminds me so much of you too he reminds me so much of you oh you listened to it live yeah yeah it did oh yeah absolutely as it was on wow so it was really cool yeah yeah he's quite a guy i should remind you of him because he wait did i say that right because i just stole all of his mannerisms basically okay he's the original yeah for sure for sure um he's the one who um facilitated this i suppose you're gonna find out who the real kieran is uh okay karen and dad are really similar dads are really gentle kieran but they still have this kind of aloof um attitude um you and mark are warmer you and mark are warmer yeah but my dad has always been warm too he looks warm he is warm he is and kieran is too but it's just a different type of warmth it's just that cold warmth it's a cold warm so yeah i mean like my dad like like um like my uncle i like shared this memory a couple years ago um it's like i watched your dad with one of you as an infant and apparently he was like holding us in his hands and we had something on our face and he just so violently took a washcloth and just you know like yeah just like whatever and but he was just so natural about it so there was definitely this like roughness but like like a natural but it was very natural at the same time it's like so um when she appalled uncle mark he was just like i couldn't like imagine imagine an infant just taking that in the face but uh um that explains so much about your faces though what do you mean i'm just joking oh over my head you can see intellectually that i'm below i'm below karen and mark i'm just picturing like your you and your brother's faces being deformed by your father when you're very young like did you fall on your head when your child no but my father uh dad yeah my dad rearranged our features no you're both very symmetrical and beautiful looking men don't worry about it it's just a joker covers up i'm not even kidding about that like uh we probably have very lumpy gross looking heads kieran and i will die we will die the grossest looking human beings in the world so right now we need to live it up because yeah this is the best it's ever going to be his mom i think it was it your mom or his aunt that wanted to see a picture of kieran's hairdo yesterday because his mother-in-law okay his mother-in-law right yeah yep yeah you get along with her i don't know her i don't know her very well i've only met her a couple times i've only met her a couple times so would you would your wives come on to them a podcast or no no not even a little bit i've asked before i've asked before yeah you know i had jennifer murdock on right did you yeah oh i knew you had a conversation but i think i listened to it it was audio only it was audio only oh okay that makes sense it was back in the day before i was doing video so uh yeah that was an interesting conversation because she was all upset that he was moving towards catholicism and i don't yeah i don't know exactly where he's at at any given time but uh hopefully we'll talk hopefully we'll talk today has he reached back out to you and um said anything about uh now well yeah they're getting the yeah i spoke to him today and uh you know i don't know how much you can say but i think they're reconciling you know and oh that's awesome yeah yeah that's so important to me you know that uh people work it out and it's complicated because i don't think sh she's not the mother of a child or whatever i don't know the situation but i think he had another woman before or whatever if i went back and listened to his interviews i could figure out uh he had another woman before and i'm not sure if he was married or before and all that sort of thing that's why it's complicated when you when you live a sordid life and sex drugs and rock and roll and then you say hey i want to be christian and i'd like to be catholic and then you know it's a little bit complicated if you're in an irregular situation with a woman and i lived that for sand i'm still suffering because of it uh i mean i was never married before another she but it's just like the whole religion thing yeah there's always adjustments to uh there's always adjustments because uh um you know your commitments start to shift they start to change and um and then it becomes like a balancing act and uh trying to be good to everybody and um yeah i understand it i understand what saint paul said like it's better if you don't get married it's better yeah he did say that didn't he but he wanted everybody to be unhappy like him no but we we get a lot of joy from from marriage and from our from our women that's right i was watching this show yesterday um with rachel and i thought it was so funny one of the characters is um just broken up and he's going through a bunch of girls and talking to his ex-girlfriend about it they're still friends and he's like uh um he's like i call them uh-o's he's like because it takes the mistake off of them and puts it back onto me and it's like enjoying that he also calls them bone cronies okay pork pals um i just get such a kick out of this i don't even know why i'm telling you this but this is what's in my mind right now and like stuff like that pops up at church where i'm just like laughing at bone cronies while they're like well i should be prayerfully approaching the sacraments but uh i mean like you know well we you know we we do have to we do have to laugh at the human condition the human condition um you know so much of it has to do with uh sexual abuse when i say that i mean we're just abusing the sacrament of marriage like we're abusing it right uh some of us more than others you know um the landers and people that just want to get another notch on their bed post or whatever it is right but at the end of the day you know they're on that uh journey and did you hear it did you hear what i said to kieran about my ecumenical vision and have you heard that from me before or no i have not no okay i'll bounce it off you just like i bounce it off him see if i get a different reaction from you but i liked his reaction you know um the the thought experiment that i've been doing the meditation i've been doing is just in a public space where lots of people around strangers i'll designate a handful of them as lost they're going to hell and i might be among that group but i just randomly pick a handful of people and then i say these are the reprobates they will not repent they're gonna go to hell and it's just a thought experiment so there's nothing binding to it it's just like for example this guy that girl whatever that little bait that cute little baby there okay gonna end up in hell okay right for whatever reason this is not binding it's just as a thought experiment and then everyone else that i didn't designate as reprobate is obviously going to end up in heaven right so the the thought experiment is that now look at those people the leftovers that are kind of randomly selected right not based on merits not based on anything not based on their religion not based on the skin color certainly and you just say this is a fact i may have got the groupings wrong like the two groups i may have divided the groups wrong but it's just an example this is an exercise to say that those people that are not going to hell are going to heaven therefore they are members of jesus christ and they are members of the cr the church of christ like that's the that's it so um and then i um explain to kieran and i'll explain to you the sort of three-fold categorization sub-categorization of that group that's going to heaven that belong to the church there are those that are in full communion they have the faith and they're in the state of grace and there are those who have the faith but they're not in the state of grace currently and there are those that don't even have the faith and so certainly they're not in the state of grace but their potential they have the potential to get the faith and they have the potential to get into the state of grace just like a catholic who is a practicing catholic who happens to be in the state of mortal sin he has the he or she has the potential to get back into the state of grace right right absolutely sacramental confession or perfect contrition or whatever it is so um just as you stand in the grocery line you can sort of do this experiment we just sort of designate those who are a portion that are going to help everyone else is in one of those three relationships with the church of jesus christ but even those who are hardcore atheists but who are going to end up in heaven they have that potential to get the faith and to get into the state of grace and they will ultimately they will right it's amazing it's amazing to think about like okay so you're telling me that this scuzz bag here that's only come into the grocery store to put his bottles that he's collected and get the refund and he's just a wino and a drug addict and a thief you mean to tell me this guy not only has the potential to get the faith and get in state of grace but he is going to like it is actually his destiny and this is not to remove the free will of anyone this is just saying from god's perspective where he knows he knows the path of everyone so this this meditation on ecumenism it sort of gets rid of all this uh triumphalism of the the orthodox express or some catholics express you know um but we can still as kieran pointed out we can still say with confidence that every single person that makes it to heaven ultimately will have the fullness of the faith and they will be in the state of grace so if the orthodox church is the one true church as karen believes then every single person in that group that you're doing thought experiment on in this hypothetical orthodox they're all yeah they're all orthodox and from my perspective are you from your perspective they're all catholic so um i think it relieves a lot of the infighting and the tensions among the different religions and i think it sort of equalizes everyone and you know that question that ultimate question like oh well is it the orthodox church or is it the catholic church and whatever it's like who cares like i mean that's that's it's sort of a secondary question at that point don't you think right yeah absolutely um absolutely because i was like thinking about it i was praying about it the other day um because uh one of the one of the verses in the bible was um uh or in the daily lectionary uh was about god um gathering his kingdom from all ends of the earth and it was like in the context of like israel but i was thinking like oh no like the bigger picture is like israel as the church and i was thinking about that and um let's let's read it let's open our lectionaries let's let's open it um no but actually um and this is what i was thinking of because i was thinking of i was thinking of catholicism and orthodoxy as being like the two closest even though people in the groups might say that they're very far from one another but uh i will make them one nation upon the land in the mountains of israel and there shall be one prince for them all never again shall they be two nations and never again shall they be divided into two kingdoms no longer shall they defile themselves with their idols their abominations and all their transgressions i will deliver them from all their sins of apostasy and cleanse them so that they may be my people and i may be their god was like oh yeah that really brings me to this you know like um you know uh to this ultimate reality of like oh yeah we're like all the true believers are gonna end up in the same place anyway regardless of like what we pocket ourselves into here on earth and it's like i'm not smart enough to like figure it out i'm never going to like deduce it and say like i am 100 correct you know because it's just it's just stupid it's like now you know what i feel peaceful being here i feel um like this is where i'm supposed to be i feel intellectually um happy with um the papacy um there's a lot of evidence that points towards the papacy um that i get through um smarter people than me thank you jimmy akin um but it's just you know i don't i don't need to dig deeper than that at this moment if somebody came up to me with like some kind of proof positive that catholicism was was wrong but then i wouldn't be able to deny it but nobody's been able to do that and i've been steeped in this for years now nobody's been able to give me something like very very conclusive um in either direction all i know is that protestantism is um so like easily refused whipped yeah refuted it's just it's not even um yeah i mean like no such thing as true if you're disregarding tradition then you disregard language because language can't exist without tradition so if that's the case then um there you go like we can't even talk about our faith because we have to disregard everything that comes out of our mouth because this is all tradition and the bible is all and that to me like that completely crumbles well you know we were talking earlier about uh pastor art and i don't know if you know him in his story do you know him in his story no no i'm already bored his name is pastor anyway uh you know i i was talking earlier about how i get excited about some of these these guys who talk about freedom and their rebellious for freedom and you know uh judas was rebellious for political freedom too right so i i do i am aware that i need to be cautious about getting overly excited about uh donald trump or the next uh populist leader you know right but there is a tendency to get excited like someone promises you freedom and justice and truth and all these sorts of things it is you know even if you don't you know you can't trust them but even if you know that you can still allow yourself to get excited like someone cares about the little guy and someone's not a complete sellout and or maybe he's at least the least of uh least evil of all the options or whatever like he can get excited and it's the same thing with uh pastor or like i mean he he inspired me he gets me excited he brings tears to my eyes with his preaching about jesus christ of god's truth he's protestant yeah what kind of protestant is he no idea no idea okay no idea i don't know him that well we didn't talk about it because i didn't want to open the can of worms of the catholic versus protestant i just wanted to just keep it like talk about uh what we have in common um and but he's a very strong and rigid and i guess conservative type of christian protestant christian and uh he was smiling uh you know when i was expressing my um what should i say my disappointment in the catholic church's position on covet i was expressing my disappointment and he was smiling just thinking yeah man like you're in the of babylon and i've got the truth you know over here like the true christians and i you know it is true that i am i am impressed by his i i you know to be honest with you i've said this before uh i have said this before i am impressed by luther even though he's an arch heretic i am impressed by him the large heritage what major like cornerstone of uh big player like of uh arch heretic just means like do you know that he seems no i just feel like twist the mustache like has a staff you know reigning in hell like [Laughter] my point is that there because i have this ecumenical vision that if you're not going to hell you are a member of the church and i get this from vatican too the reason i'm so excited about that that gives me a certain ability that i think some other catholics or christians or orthodox don't have to appreciate a hardcore uh protestant as catholic like i'm a catholic but i can appreciate a hardcore protestant and i have a certain admiration for them that i don't have for my even for my the priests that i've met the catholic priest even though they're good men good holy men they love god and th