yes we are live i'm here with brenda brenda how are you doing i'm doing okay very nice to see you i'm going to just uh just one last thing i forgot to adjust was my screen size i'm just going to zoom in just a little bit and i'm going to scoot over here yes so uh it's nice to see you it's nice to talk to you it's been about a year i think it was last march we talked last how are things going generally do you want to just sort of uh give a little mini introduction into how your life's been going i know you're at school and that's exciting maybe just talk about the things that you're most excited about since we talked last place well i i am excited about i'm very grateful to that there is a program at the university of minnesota that allows me to take non-credited courses at a reduced rate that i can afford um and so i've been taking courses in um well a recent course i took was world religions and another one in um politics i've taken courses in general philosophy i'd like to take a couple courses in history in the fall maybe that would be good so i enjoy these sort of general um these general undergraduate courses in general subjects at the um at the freshman level are are not difficult to take and i enjoy them i enjoy the interactions um um you know like a year ago or so they were almost exclusively over zoom and um now we've graduated to being in person but with masks on and hopefully in the fall the the you will have a policy that will permit us to be without masks [Music] and i like i like those courses and as far as the other things go in my life um [Music] things are as as they usually were i i just um i am very low income so i make it from month to month and um i have several things that i enjoy doing such as um i like to play chess i like to cook i like to i like cooking um because that's an activity i can do with my time and it's creative um and makes use of um i can make use of ingredients that are relatively inexpensive that improved my life stuff like that i've also also for that for that uh global religion um um world religion course world religion course i spoke to rebecca i don't know if you know who she is rebecca at bread of life the name of her channel is bread of life um she hosts um atheists and non-believers on her channel and i did an interview with her for that for that course nice and she she holds so i tend to be um in um discussions with uh doug at pine creek right or nathan at digital gnosis um oh how is he doing he's doing okay is he christian now i don't think so no um and they will have they will have um [Music] there's some background noises distracting me on your side or on my side on my on my side so you need to shut a window no i'm it's not going to help any [Laughter] okay it's not going to help um so they'll have discussion groups um with with them and james fodor and some other people you might not know danny and james ford or people like that and that's sort of a smallish sort of group that i enjoy talking to i sometimes go on to clubhouse which is a platform which is mostly just audio um but that's that's pretty contentious um it's it's people like darth dawkins are on clubhouse um they're angry people but there's sometimes there's okay discussions who's your number one top favorite for civil discourse around philosophy i would have to say nathan um rebecca is extremely civil and so her is she chris hurst yes she's an evangelical uh christian uh she used to uh live in the middle east she um talked a lot to people of the two muslims in the area i believe her husband was doing something else and she was ministering or considered it part of her ministry to to evangelize or talk to a lot of muslims so she's very knowledgeable about about islam nice and she's here in the u.s and they sort of continued um [Music] a uh a tradition of talking to people and stuff and so she's she's very um a very good person hey can you do me a favor brenda can you talk to are you close with nathan you email him and you talk to him sometimes i'm not close but i could probably talk could you get a message to him for me because he ignores my emails because i debunked his 500 arguments against christianity with james fodor and uh he was all pissy and angry and he doesn't respond to my emails but i just want to i just want to have him on a live stream i don't want to put you in between us but if you could just extend my apology if i hurt his feelings and if i was an a-hole and just say no hard feelings just want to chat as a friend if you want to come and talk to me about where you're at philosophically i'm interested i think he's a smart young guy i think he's a really nice guy i would appreciate it if because i don't know anyone else that's connected to him if you find an opportunity you could do me a big favor i'd appreciate that okay no pressure no pressure okay it might not be that he's angry with you it might just it might just be yeah that yeah he is he has been accepted in the phd program so i think he might i don't know what his schedule would be do you know what his phd thesis or topic i don't remember he said but i don't remember well do you know the really really general area philosophy actually i don't it could he's a programmer so i would expect computer science but maybe it's philosophy but i don't know oh could be anything could be underwater basket weaving it's unlikely but possible so uh it's uh great to see your face and uh catch up with you a little bit but let's talk about some ideas what sort of ideas are you excited about in particular things have been stimulated by uh your university studies there may have been some ideas you've stumbled upon where you thought oh i've never considered that before but my professor put a twist on something that we're all familiar with and now i'm seeing things in a different way or i've never thought about this or that or some of the students that you bump into might have a unique perspective that sort of shook you up a little bit is that does that happen and are there some ideas now jangling around in your head that uh that are that you're excited about exploring or what what's happening in terms of ideas um well in the uh world religions course uh that was really interesting it was basically it was basically an overview and most of it consisted of uh um you know here's here's christianity here's their main tenets and here's the basic history behind it and then the same here's the major uh beliefs and controversies within christianity and then islam hinduism and is buddhism christianity judaism islam hinduism and native native beliefs pre pre-um colonialism pre-colonial or whatever you call are our aboriginal beliefs um north american style or worldwide in general just just very vegetablism and stuff like that yeah paganism yeah and um and so that was interesting because uh i don't get a lot of exposure to the world religions i get exposure to proponents of different religions who are debating in different channels about about the various beliefs that they have um it is kind of interesting to watch uh or to listen to uh muslims debate christians about god that that is kind of interesting um or or jews debate um christians um muslims will usually go and contest the trinity jews will usually contest the status of jesus as messiah because they don't consider him to be messiah and they'll give reasons for that right i hardly ever run into hinduism hindu apologists um but i i draw a very distinct i draw a line between um people in real life who have religious beliefs people on the internet who have religious beliefs the people on the internet tend to be um extremists and and highly opinionated present company exploited of course though well they do they do they tend to have very very fixed very fixed extr and they in christianity they they tend to be calvinist or presuppositionalist and that's that doesn't represent the majority of christians majority of christians are pretty lukewarm protestants is what i would say peace that i need you know what are your thinking what do you think about me because i consider myself just a regular guy i don't have a big uh like or online personality or a schtick that i use i just be myself i'm just trying to be myself i'm not trying to understand it is that you're catholic right catholic yeah yeah yeah so so you know it's it's a little bit unusual for catholics to be evangelical um [Music] so that's just a little bit unusual you don't follow some of the big names in catholic online talking heads you don't follow any of those guys most of them are radtrads like radical conservative and it really turns me off i don't like that yeah most of most yes it does seem like there's a lot of catholics who are uh extreme extremely conservative politically on the internet yes yes yes in real life not so much no believe me it's not the case yeah i understand i understand that so i make that distinction right um and and the same is true actually for most denominations of christianity is that the regular people who don't bother to go online and talk about these things um are more moderate than the people who are online arguing for things um i i like the um i took a class in in um the constitution of the united states and politics politics in the united states um but it doesn't stir up so much big ideas it's just so that in the constitution class we just go over the constitution and the history of of of uh the revolution end of that era and we didn't go into the modern era but we touch on various ideas that are in political science uh um so that was just um enlightening can i ask you something uh did you learn anything about the loyalists who were loyal to the crown and who escaped up to canada and quebec in particular because that's where my ancestors come from they were americans who escaped because they remained loyal believe it or not they remained loyal to the crown of england yeah uh we didn't cover that in detail but i i was aware of that so i'm aware i'm aware of that but that wasn't um um covered it wasn't covered in depth or anything like that interesting you know i watched a thing about slavery uh with my wife uh some of the uh i guess they were all of african descent these slaves in the us and the south and they had that underground railroad i'm not sure why they called it a railroad but i guess it's just a symbolic image yeah but a lot of brave souls black white whatever like the race was not the issue the people the people that were for freedom stood for freedom they tried to help those who were enslaved and uh very moving very powerful a lot of courage on both sides blacks and whites if you want to just use to use that basic dichotomy of blacks versus whites in the u.s there are many other races and skin coolers and all that sort of thing but um yeah the courage and the love of humanity the love of freedom it's very inspirational and i think that those slaves who escaped would be no offense to people on the left politically today but i think they would be embarrassed by their ancestors their descendants how uh fragile and overly sensitive they are about race relations after all these brave men and women did to seek their freedom and then now their descendants are so weak and they're so pathetic excuse me if i'm offending you or anyone else out there but it just seems like they we don't have the guts and the grit that those brave men and women had during the underground railroad can you just comment on that impression that i have maybe i'm wrong well on the underground railroad yeah sure that was a um [Music] that was a good thing i guess as far as today's blacks made weak i don't think that's true the whole blm thing you don't think that's lame no i don't i think that they have a right to be upset because they're treated um differently and poorly in our culture in the us culture you're in the states right yeah yeah in the united states okay have you been to canada no okay so you can't comment on i'm in minnesota i'm in minnesota so technically it's canada light is that what they say no i just made it up so did you say canada like with a k or light with a t right l-i-t-e okay that's cute geographically how far are you from uh the border well minneapolis uh i don't know it's it's quite a wise okay but you're the nice you're the nice guys of the states polite well we like to think we are we aren't always and we had we had definitely the uh the riots here over the george floyd killing and that was wrong and they were right to be upset about it they weren't right to destroy property but they were right to protest and they did protest okay i think that african americans in the united states have a valid beef with the general culture which is discriminate which i feel is is is discriminatory so i i think that you know there there is there is an issue that needs to be corrected and i think that they are treated differently i've seen it myself and so um because i'm poor i'm in a poor neighborhood so um so yeah i i think that there's a genuine um there's a genuine um [Music] anger at their continued marginalization in by society in the united states might not be in canada but it is in the united states okay that's sad if that's true i mean that is pathetic that's how i feel it's real it's much worse in southern states or other some some other states even beyond the south um yeah i think it's it's wrong um but at the same time i feel i have a generally good um relationship with the police and stuff um but part of that is afforded by the fact that i'm white um even being transgender being white is really helps really helps you so um yeah so i i that's what i think about that you wanted to talk a little bit about um the virus but i'm not sure you can talk about that and have it i think you'll have the you'll either be demonetized or have the video removed i'm not monetized anyway i'm not worried about that i think it might be removed too we could try it and we'll see but do you have strong opinions one way or the other yeah i think that uh the people who refuse to get vaccinated are responsible uh for the deaths of of people who have caught caught coven so you've been uh jabbed once twice three times i've had i've had uh the moderna one and two and a booster and if a second if another booster is available i'll take that because vaccination it's just science that works so it's safe and effective yeah so i don't need it i don't need to take it because it's safe and effective so you're if you've taken it you're safe right no you you should you should take it to protect yourself from the virus which is not just a flu i know but you said you said that it's uh by for example myself not getting vaccinated i'm harming other people but if they're vaccinated i can't harm them if it's safe and effective i can't harm them well you continue to spread the virus and it continues to mutate yeah uh excuse me i just got an email from a friend uh who i've been begging to come on the podcast for so long and she's now reaching out and saying she might be ready i haven't read her email properly but that's the impression i got so i'm excited about that sorry for the distraction brenda um but yeah i mean uh the the basic underlying principle there's so many things we could talk about but the basic one is that i'm free i have free will and i cannot be coerced i cannot be coerced into giving free consent because uh free and informed consent is by definition tautologically free free consent is free and it's consent and you're not free if you give your consent under duress you agree with that much right um so the problem is that that um you uh your actions affect other people yeah but i'm still free to make that choice right no not when your actions affect other people so why does the government say that it's a free choice you have to make a free decision and that you are responsible you are responsible for your health choices that's what the governments of the world say you are responsible not the government not the churches but you as an individual you are responsible for the risks you take when you take a medical decision so you are free to choose or not to choose it's on it's on you it's up to you and the responsibility is yours yes how do you feel about that it is your responsibility yeah so i'm free to make that choice without duress right nobody's nobody's going to hold you down and give you a vaccination that's not the point the point is that there are consequences when you don't uh what are the consequences um you can't do certain things no but i mean what i i just don't understand how how i could harm you you're vast i'm not backs how could i harm you because you you spread the vaccine because things aren't a hundred percent because viruses don't care about politics yeah but the science of just a virus it's just a virus it doesn't care right about politics and about your your precious feelings but the scientists the experts if you listen to what the scientists the experts the doctors and the medical researchers say about vaccination doing a global vaccination campaign during a pandemic they all say those who understand pandemics say it's a bad idea what's a bad idea vaccinating a general population during a pandemic it's not a good idea it's not the way to deal with it yeah nobody says that well i don't know who you're listening to i'm listening to doctors medical researchers epidemiologists experts these are the sources i go to i don't listen to the mainstream i don't listen to the mainstream news yeah right because they're just going to tell you go and get your your shots right that's all they say it's safe and effective right so you choose you choose to listen only to those people that will tell you what you want to hear which is what you want to hear right because the fact is that during the pandemic you should get vaccinated you know if if a vaccine is available nobody says he shouldn't that that vaccines are the wrong way to handle an infectious disease nobody says that well i could send you some links so put links in the description you're going to send me links to quacks and conspiracy theorists well anyway we i don't think we're going to change each other's minds and it's too late for you because you've been jabbed you've been jabbed you can't get unjab that's that's the other uh stance that i take it's like i can always change my mind to get vaccinated but you can never ever ever build a time machine and go back and get unvaccinated that's the difference right i have the option to get vaccinated but you can't get unvaccinated who cares if i'm vaccinated or not what difference does it make the vaccine uh sort of wears off over time if i never if i don't get vaccinated again um you know it's like you never had no i suppose i'll have antibodies for it for a while i don't actually know if because it's different than regular viruses it's a retrovirus so i don't know but its effectiveness diminishes over time as as i understand it yeah right so who cares if if i've been jabbed or not it just means that i have antibodies for the vaccine have you read any of the virus the virus yeah yeah you keep mixing those two words up it doesn't matter yeah we understand what you mean but have you read any of the leaked or not the leaked documents but the released documents by f i know you didn't take pfizer but the pfizer documents were released and they've been slowly releasing them have you read any of that stuff no i i i have relatively little interest to be perfectly honest i have relatively little interest in in all of this stuff i simply um go by what authoritative sources say and i have other interests like i've said i i've interest in debating religion and talking about philosophy and politics with people yeah and i don't waste my time on something that i'm not particularly interested in i just go with the authoritative sources yeah yeah we can agree to disagree it's not a big deal but i think that i'm not drawing a big d i can i'm not it's not a big deal to me either yeah i know i yeah but the the the thing is with the medium and long-term side effects and the uh undesirable uh consequences of taking the jabs uh that's yet to be seen and there's not much incentive for the governments of the world to uh publish that sort of data but we've seen a lot of miscarriages increase in miscarriages increase in all kinds of different health problems that was that was six people which six people are you talking about it was just six it was six women which six women which which the miscarriages thing is this just was just six women that which study are you talking about i i don't remember which one was it the new england journal of medicine i don't remember exactly which one okay because that was uh whatever hundreds so hundreds so people are the vi the vaccine isn't harming people you don't think so yeah it doesn't do you think do you think aspirin do people die from taking aspirin every year yes or no sure of course yeah okay so people are going to die from taking the vaccine too right maybe maybe not i don't know well it's 100 guaranteed i mean if people are dying from aspirin well they overdose do people die from eating peanuts do people die from eating peanuts yes yeah okay so people are dying from the vaccine it's 100 guaranteed 100 guaranteed we've got people dropping dead after getting we're getting people getting dropping dead how many people aren't dropping down i'm just saying and i'm just saying non-zero it's just that's my my only point yes it's not zero but who cares uh so who cares about the family the family and friends yeah but yeah so so people dropped that from taking aspirin yeah but it's still sold over the counter yeah and i would take it in a heartbeat but i won't lose my job i'm not taking aspirin i won't lose my job for not taking aspirin right because there's quite a difference between having a headache and uh um spreading a deadly virus have you had covid no i don't think i have okay you haven't been really sick lately no okay i've been through all of this and i'm i'm 64. so i'm in a vulnerable demographic and i've not been sick at all that's good thank god all right and i and i and i think that that i can count that as due to having taken the uh the vaccine i think okay and and to uh following the precautions wearing a mask being careful or reasonably careful right do you yeah you do what you you do what you have to do um do you know any people uh like me who are i guess not in real life not in real life why no not many do you trust the governments of the world generally yeah maybe about some things and some not about everything yeah i'm not a conspiracy theorist so i weigh the evidence based on uh how reasonable it is it's um i compare it with my other beliefs and knowledge that i have and um i would weigh um things based on on that so um for scientific institutions and things i would weigh them pretty heavily in their favor uh if the government says you know we absolutely did not uh lose a a um lose a nuclear bomb off the shores uh i i might not believe them because they've they've actually lost uh nuclear weapons occasionally they're called broken arrows they're called broken arrows they've lost a couple um can they detonate probably not i don't know or leak they're called broken arrows that's code language they could probably leak it could probably leak yeah i think we have bigger things to worry about than coal yeah the point is is yes and governments will tell lies especially around uh wars and conflicts things like that but on the on the whole um i would trust scientific sources i would trust um to a lesser degree government sources i would absolutely put no faith at all in youtube videos yeah i don't watch youtube videos but um have you read uh robert kennedy junior's book hello no no he's i wouldn't trust anything that he says yeah i hope i think i think he's literally i think he's literally insane i hope you're right because i read his book it's scary as hell well it's supposed to be it's scary as hell so i didn't even finish it because it was just too it was just like shock after shock after shock after shock it's just like i had to put the book down because it's just it's a narrative it's a narrative it's a narrative that's meant to spread fear and paranoia so what i do when i come across information that i don't know the answer to about i do google searches and i search pro and con so i will look at the pro side and then i'll use the same search term and search for debunked or something like that and look at at the at the opposite side yeah right and then i'll compare the two and come up with what i think is a reasonable assessment um and usually it's the scientific side that is is correct and the conspiracy sites are are typically um they are uh they lie deliberately they falsify reports they misreport things they're basically rumor and gossip mills yeah right so these are these are places where people spread lies and misinformation much of it is deliberate um i've seen how they have how conspiracy websites have taken information and distorted it deliberately to promote their narrative yeah i agree 100 i'm well aware of that and i don't trust the left or the right and uh that's not politics i'm not talking politics i'm just talking information right but these people have an axe to grind they always have an axe to grind like the it's not political a lot of a lot of anti-virus websites are from the liberal side they're really crap well in the past they certainly have been send me a link send me a link to any any left-leaning conspiracy theory against covent i want to i want a link to this i've never ever ever seen anything about right-wing anti-vaccine anti-vaccine and anti-and um the uh autism misinformation was predominantly among left-leaning democrats okay is rfk left leaning yes really yeah okay okay okay so there's a whole left leaning conspiracy theory a contingent i didn't know that people people people are dumb generally speaking people are highly prone to believe in conspiracy theories because it offers a convenient narrative right that explains things that they don't understand yeah but i'll give one example the new england journal of medicine is supposed to be well reputed i looked at their preliminary study on miscarriages and spontaneous abortions it was a very small sample group okay but they misrepresented the data to their favor and the people on the right wing were misrepresenting it the other way both of them using the most extreme interpretation fallacious and anti-scientific interpretations to sell their own narrative i did down the middle of the road objective disinterested analysis of the data and i came up with numbers that are now being talked about in in the mainstream media when it comes to the increase in um miscarriages it's starting to come out in the u.s military for example women in the u.s military so uh i take a moderate view and i strive for objectivity i studied the natural sciences what was the increase due for what was this due to what just in general versus unboxed vast versus unwaxed with colvid i'll send you the link okay to my analysis and you can tell me what you think tell me if you uh if you like it if you agree with it i called it miscarriage of justice that's what i called it and i'll send you the link right now i have a second analysis i do which which allows for my duds hypothesis which says that a lot of the jobs were not viable at all so i adjust for that and it gives numbers that correspond with the sorts of things we're hearing now so i'm going to send you that like so you use you use bad information to correct it so that it gets to the result you want no no i was happy with my initial analysis but i said to myself buyser admitted that the that you need to keep their their product at minus 70 degrees celsius for it to be viable and the supply chain cust of custody said that's impossible so pfizer said okay don't worry about it um so basically they they knew that it would not be viable in a lot of cases because of the temperature controls were impracticable okay so that are you a neurologist are you a virologist no i'm just listening to what pfizer says pfizer says it needs to be it needs to be these are the temperature control no but this is what pfizer the expert said it needs to be maintained at minus 70 through the whole chain of custody and then the chain of custody came back and said that's impossible it's never going to happen and pfizer said okay so viability is an issue a lot of people are just getting what's equivalent to a saline solution injection i'll send you you don't know that you don't know that i don't know it but i'm speculating and i'm um you have to keep it at minus 70. and we can't keep it at 97. so what does that tell you you decided to ignore their their what their conclusions you decided uh based on your expertise which is zero no no you decided to ignore their data the instructions on the package say this is what you have to do it's never being done according to their instructions and that affects viability you don't know that pfizer knows that that's what fizer told us you don't know that it's not being done yeah we do because the chain of command they came back the hospitals the truckers everyone came back and said we cannot maintain your your temperature control regulations we cannot do it it's impossible and pfizer just said okay then don't worry about it right yeah yeah yeah you don't know the specifics about that you just don't know i know i know that pfizer said this need this has very strict quality control stipulations that need to be followed turns out it wasn't possible and they just said okay whatever yeah you there's a lot of information lacking and you're just filling it in in order to promote your own i'm just saying what are the possibilities let's examine the whole range of possibilities either that minus 70 degrees celsius constraint was wrong they don't need to have any temperature controls on this delicate experimental gene therapy or they were right fizer was right it's not viable unless you keep it at that temperature at that low temperature either they were right or they were wrong let's suppose that in fact they do maintain the the temperature controls they're pectin they're packed in what dry ice i don't know how they do it well that would be dry ice is around that temperature so i would expect that they they pack them in styrofoam and pack it in dry ice so i don't see what the problem is in maintaining that temperature well i don't know uh i don't know either but all i know is that pfizer so you don't know well what i'm telling i'm telling you what i do know what i do know is that pfizer said it has to be kept at this temperature but yeah but because you can't because because it's impractical and practical how do you know it can't be how do you know it can't be because those those in charge of the supply chain came back and reported to pfizer that it can't be it's not practical and they came back and just said okay well uh no big deal i don't know why it wouldn't be practical because um it is a rather routine thing to to ship uh medical supplies you put them in a styrofoam uh a box and you pack it with car with dry ice and and you set and you tape it up and you send it off how long is the dry ice uh keep it cold for i don't know it i suppose it depends and you have a super uh i worked i worked into the blast chiller at everyone else's facilities i i worked in in a as a summer job um uh putting caps on to test tubes but the test tubes were used to send blood samples through the mail system through the pack through through the mail system they packed them up in dry ice and it would send them across the country yeah to facilities that had a a blast chiller of some sort yeah but the problem is with a lot of these people that were administering the vaccine they didn't have the facilities to maintain the temperature controls that's what i'm talking about at the endpoint i don't know yeah you so you don't know all i know is that there was culture there was a controversy where pfizer said do this and they they said we can't do it and pfizer said oh well who's they who's who's they that said they can't do it i'll have to dig up the article those who are responsible those who are responsible oh there's an article the official statement from pfizer saying this is what you have to do okay you can't do it if they can't do it who said that whoever was responsible whoever was responsible at various locations on the supply chain yeah i don't see any problem with with keeping with keeping those samples cold okay you pack them in dry ice you you put them in a in a styrofoam box and you and you send it off yeah so the it sounds very easy so the viability of this delicate mechanism this manu nano technology you think it's a hundred percent viable all the time i disagree i think it's unscientific not unscientific to say that it's 100 viable all the time that's just your opinion and you're just a nobody you don't have you're not involved i have common sense i know that it's it's a that nothing is 100 viable okay right particularly if it's an experimental new technology and i've had anecdotal uh reports from people that see the way like doctors and nurses whatever that talk about how these things are just left out at room temperature when they shouldn't be because there's a certain point when they can be once they've been uh i've actually had the i've actually had the jab and what i saw was a um was a uh um i don't know if it was a coleman or it was a it was a type of cooler it was a type of cooler which had had the samples in it right yeah so i just don't see the problem excuse me for one second if you don't this will not take long excuse me it's extremely rude but i've just uh i had to respond to another email from my friend who i've been hounding her to come on the podcast and she's finally agreed that maybe this is a good time to do it so i want to i don't want to miss this opportunity with her i don't know her personally but i've been corresponding with her she's been supporting my uh podcast she's a patron on patreon and stuff like that so um i don't have a lot of supporters like this and i'm very uh i'm very grateful to her and i'm excited to to talk to her but let's talk a little bit about roe v wade another uh controversial subject here uh down in the us if you want to end it um you can edwin no no no no i'm not i'm not ready to uh i'm not ready to do her yet i just wanted to make sure that i'm letting her know that yes i'm excited let's yes let's do it today i said i'm going to finish my interview with brenda and we're going to talk and maybe set up a time for this evening she said she has time this evening so there's no pressure to get off the call with you and i'm excited to talk to you um i don't want to talk anymore about kova just because we're going to agree to disagree and i can send you a bunch of links you can send me a bunch of links but um i want to talk about roe v wade and again this is probably just going to be another dead end conversation but probably but i've got enough i've got enough of these debates under my belt that um people having very different views from mine doesn't rattle me as much as it used to yeah i so i i will just you know state my opinion and and i'll let you uh do the freakout part [Laughter] my opinion is is i'm pro-choice i'm i i think that should be abortion should be safe and legal yeah that means you're not pro-choice i'm pro-choice i want people to choose i want people to choose wisely choose life yeah that's not pro-choice well yeah you're free to choose you're free to change you're equivocating you're equivocating no i want you to choose but i my preference would be that you get educated about when life begins and the value and sanctity of life and that you choose wisely choose life so i want you to choose life it's not about it's not about when life begins nobody's in doubt right that when the sperm fertilizes the ovum that that's that's when your life begins nobody doubts that that's not the issue the issue is is over a woman's right to control her body is it her body though yeah is it her dna yeah it is yes does it match her dna it's her body is it her dna does it match her dna yes does it have its own unique dna yes okay so it's not her dna it's it's the child's dna but it's her body okay so just like uh my mother could say that my body is her body is that the sort of thing you're talking about you're equivocating that's not what i'm saying it's hers because it's in her womb or it's her yes yeah when the mother says my child you just saying it's literally mine it's mine and because it's mine it has a body it's my body i think women have a right to control their body to control their reproductive their their own reproduction their reproduction status i think the state should not interfere well i agree i agree with you that this state should not interfere personally i you know the whole legality thing to me is a lot less interesting than the philosophical questions like do i think it should be illegal well i don't know i don't know i mean uh it is murder to me it's murder so uh you know well it's not a murder means it's illegal which it's not it's not illegal to have an abortion yeah it's not murder i don't you know because i have i have god and i have divine law natural law and then the man-made laws which sometimes correspond with god's law and sometimes they don't sometimes the natural uh sometimes the man-made laws correspond with natural law sometimes they don't you would admit that if there were such a thing as natural law that it is necessarily the case that not all human laws will correspond with the natural law you must admit that just on the basis of logic right because there are laws that contradict laws human laws that contradict other human laws so therefore they can't both be right therefore one of them at least one of them is violating the natural law if such a thing exists i claim it does yeah i don't think i don't think natural law exists right but given the fact that you don't exist think it exists you can still use you could still use logic and say that if there were such a thing as natural law these two laws from two different states a red state in a blue state which are completely diametrically opposed to each other they are both man-made laws and they cannot both be from the perspective of a monotheist they cannot both be uh in line with natural law even though you don't believe that natural law exists but you can recognize the contradiction between a blue states law and a red state's law where which are diametrically opposed one says it's legal one says it's not one says it's murder actually they don't say that i'm just saying hypothetically what they're saying hypothetically what they say is that what they say is that um you know there's they they say you can't have an abortion after such and such uh weeks are you have to inform things like that you have to do certain things so they they put um they put up obstacles to the lava they didn't actually until recently attacked the law itself right so the only laws that i that are natural that i acknowledge would be physics chemistry biology things like that yeah there's there's no god-given law that's that doesn't exist from your perspective of course of course no question yeah right so um in terms of i think yeah go ahead sorry i think it should be safe like i said safe and and uh legal and it's up to the woman it's a choice between the woman and her doctor yeah if you had been aborted in your mother's womb uh you would not be with us right now so are you glad that you were not reported i'm mostly glad i wasn't rewarded i wouldn't have any feelings on the issue i i don't see what this what this what this uh does for you well all right the the first principle is life because if you don't have life you can't have any of the other rights and i'm sure you're a fan of human rights i'm sure you're a fan of human rights you want to defend every human right except for the most important human right which is the right to life it's absurd no i i'm sorry the right to life i just don't think the abortion controversy is over the right to life it's over a right of a woman to control her body right but your mother could have controlled quote unquote her body and uh killed you in the womb she couldn't you wouldn't be here you wouldn't be here so so none of the rights that you are fighting for none of the rights that you value and that you enjoy and that you're fighting for none of those rights would have just just it's just what about ism you're a living human being this is not what about i'm not you i'm talking about you you're here i understand all your rights depend on the fact that your mother did not have the right to kill you she did not kill you you're here now it's not what about isn't it it's a manifest my rights don't exist because my mother chose to to uh carry the pregnancy to terms you know but you're enjoying them you're enjoying them because yes it's just a trivial comment it's not true it's not trivial it's not trivial your life is not trivial my friend it's not trivial i didn't say my life was trivial i said your your your comment your your your approach your argument here you're alive and you're enjoying human rights your your god given what i would say god given human rights you're alive and you're enjoying your god-given human rights all of them because your mother didn't kill you period it's not what about ism it's not trivial your life matters yeah that's the same for it's a yeah so what what does that have to do with anything because there is a god he did create you you are a valuable person and you your soul is eternal and there are two outcomes heaven or hell choose wisely choose life it's all it's all the same message it's all the same christian message right you have a human nature right you are a human being and you have one of two eternal destinies before you and you have to choose it's not trivial it's the most important thing so it's all connected with life in your mother's choice to not abort you when you're in her womb it's all connected that's that's just that's your religious belief which is fine but has doesn't have anything to do with the the abortion issue the abortion issue is over uh a woman's right to control her body her reproduction right it doesn't have anything to do it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not uh my mother chose to carry uh her pregnancy to turn with me that does that's your brother needs to ask to do with it you the the only reason you can speak to me the only reason you can be pro-choice in this conversation we're having yeah i understand express yourself is because you're alive you're here life is the first principle and your mother did not have the right she does not have the right she did not have the right to kill you if she killed you it would have been wrong that's what i want you to understand if she if your mother had killed you it would have been wrong objectively and eternally wrong i hope you understand that yeah no i don't think that terminating a pregnancy is wrong so your life is not valuable that's not that doesn't follow it does follow she should not kill you she should not have killed you because your life is valuable i can see today that you're alive you're a valuable human being and that would not be the case if she had killed you that's why it's wrong for her to have killed you if she had killed you but she didn't kill you thank god no this it is not wrong to terminate a pregnancy um what is it like 28 weeks that's that's the usual that's what's what's in the ruling itself right you can terminate a pregnancy up until this particular time the original ruling uh regulated first second and third trimester pregnancies what do you think about the fourth trimester there's no fourth trend well they're pushing for one the pro-choicers are pushing for a fourth trimester so they can leave the baby once it's out of the mother's womb to die because it's not viable it can't survive and this is called the fourth trimester you've not heard about this no okay what do you think about it just hypothetically if it is true what do you think about it disgusting or cute um there's a story that uh my parents told me uh about uh sister uh about back in the early parts of the 20th century and that they had uh twins twin i believe sisters that were born to my grandmother and the attending doctor took a look at the twins and set him aside and said too small and then he refused to uh do anything else with them but they they died right so there was a time when people made decisions like that yeah my sister died that way my sister died that way yeah said my doctor's uh not my doctor but my mother's doctor said it's not viable it's not worth it if it's not viable it's it's compassionate to to end and the life it's compassionate okay rather than yeah demanding that it rather than demanding that it suffer right you just want to increase the suffering i want to decrease suffering yeah so this brings me back a little bit to covert because there's a there's a court case in quebec because of the mistreatment of the elderly that were left to die they were not only left to die drink over they were actually given they were like officially administered end of life drugs for no good reason right uh so there's a court case pending here in quebec for that because of the uh old people being murdered are you okay with that euthanasia based on your description alone i would say no but the facts are probably a lot different we'll see what the judge says well we'll see what the facts actually are yeah how much what how what percentage uh uh we already know we already know that you don't report the facts correctly well we'll see what the judge says but what do you think the percentage of legal cases in any level of court up to the supreme court of any given nation what is the percentage of outcomes that you would say were just outcomes guilty when the person is guilty not guilty when the person was not guilty or whatever like how much justice is served in human courts ballpark figure i would say about 50 50. what would you say i have no idea i have no idea give me a ballpark figure i would say the majority there's probably a slim majority who are who are just i mean i don't know it depends on what you mean by just i i have your own idea of justice i think there's a lot of injustice in the legal system uh when it comes to these judgments okay does that piss you away we've discovered we've discovered people who were on death row or yeah uh in life in prison do and dna uh exonerated them and there's been quite a few people that's why i'm not at four i'm not for the death penalty yeah uh what do you before i let you go because i do have to let you go not because of my other interview but because i gotta feed my wife i gotta make i gotta make uh lentil burgers um and i'm very hungry but what do you think of pope francis and his stance on the covet vaccine were you proud of him that he was pushing it so hard don't i don't i didn't track anything that he did about with it i it just wouldn't it wouldn't have interested me if he uh promoted uh compliance with directives to wear masks and to get vaccinated than good on him yeah that's what he did yeah good on him so uh i like to leave things off on a positive note something hopeful and cheery and bright so uh leave the listeners with whatever is on your mind either related or not to what we've been discussing probably not but uh something positive please just to wrap up um you know there's no hard feelings over here like i said i've been through enough of these that um this is just uh sparring and so there's no hard feelings on my part or anything like that i think you're just wrong yeah um and i think you're mistaken um i could probably the things i would think about would be like how could i have said something better in a different way or something like that but for the most part you know i'm i'm okay with everything you know is it's not a big deal to me some people get really worked up i used to get really worked up i try not to anymore i try to keep it just you know to the to the debates and to understand that people are different in real life than they are online and things like that and so there's there's no left over here yeah of course of course i knew that i know that about you i think everyone that knows you knows that about you that you rise above you're striving to rise above i think you have that reputation in the online community that people know you are striving for the best when it comes to communication nobody no but nobody i i'm not i'm not i'm a nobody nobody knows about me oh yeah nobody knows you're everywhere yeah you're over here you're over there we see you around you should check out rebecca i think you would well you're catholic that would be an interesting this discussion between you and rebecca it's the channel is bread of life she would love to have you i tell her i sent you yeah you tell her i recommended you she likes you and yeah i like her how old is she 20 or 50. uh less than 50 i think okay certainly not in her 20s she's she's she's a mature woman right 30s okay um when you when you do contact her tell her i said that she she i kept she looked 17 to me very good well thanks for coming on at short notice uh you know my friend joe he wants to talk to you right my friend joe you should you should listen you should listen to his interview i'll send you the link he's just a cute friendly guy he's not too serious uh he likes to make jokes he's he's like really cute i've never seen his face he won't show me his face he said he's bald do you like bald men not particularly okay well he's short and bold so uh i'm not in the market i'm 64. i'm gonna be 65 this month okay this this this month is my birthday yeah i plan on living a little bit longer although i don't know the rest of the world i tell myself i'd like to live a little bit longer because this crazy world i want to see how it turns out that's because because you all be crazy man what day is your birthday's at the end of the month or what i'm a gemini so i'm may 28th okay well have a good birthday full-blown gemini and do you eat part of it do you eat chocolate cake and that sort of thing on your birthday um i usually take myself out um and go to a nice restaurant okay or else i'll go to the whole foods i'll buy one of those roasted chickens i'll buy some a nice cake and a bottle bottle of water bottle of white wine or red wine okay i have i have i have a 500 liter bottle of brandy here it's been here since last year sometime every once in a while i have like half of a shot okay i am not a big drinker i'm not a big drinker you know alcohol around here lasts a long time but i have some every once in a while i'll have a little bit of this a little bit of that yeah but it lasts a long time around here i don't do any of the smoky wacky tobaccy i don't do any of that there's an interest none of those things interest me my drug of choice is caffeine it's espresso that i care about and otherwise no not really clean living that's why you're looking so good at your age okay whatever i'm making you squirm i'm making you uncomfortable yeah yeah that's the best way to make me uncomfortable is to compliment me yeah because because that's the minnesota way the best way to make a minnesotan or canadian uncomfortable is to compliment them right if you went out on the street if you went out on the street and started complimenting people said hey you look great they would think you're crazy of course they would be they would be angry they would go what the hell is wrong with you i like to change i like to change the topic uh whenever anyone gives me any kind of compliment which isn't very often but uh nice to see you nice to talk with you and we'll do this again soon joe wants to talk to you so we'll try to arrange something with joe he said later in the week if you're free and it's just going to be you and him on the screen i'll be behind the scenes just facilities i don't have classes i don't have classes anymore so i'm okay okay yeah very good very good it'll have to be an evening because i work during the day i work full-time but uh we'll talk very soon thanks for doing this today and uh take care of yourself all right okay god bless you