CVS Live Guest - 2022-05-21 - Siddhant Thomas

Author Streamed Saturday May 21st, 2022

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I met Sid in the YouTube comments. He's 18 and was raised Christian, but tends to call himself a deist. He's reading about the faith while studying nursing with a view to going into medicine.

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These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
okay sure this works yeah so we are live i'm here with sid how are you doing sid take two you sound good you sound good you look good i i don't feel good i'm not gonna lie what happened huh oh well um i was um so after our little um after a little farce uh yesterday um with the horrifying data i went to go um like we rescheduled today and then i went to go meet with um i went to go meet with some friends and it was it was quite fun we played a little bit of volleyball i did a horrible mistake because i assumed it was still my high school days and i stretched out my leg to reach for the ball and now my hip hurts okay dislocated your hips you need a hip replacement surgery oh please don't don't give me that titanium ball and socket wheelchair actually that would be pretty cool replace the whole skeleton while you're at it yeah just like you know why not just like go through the entire anatomy like this is where it is there's connective tissue around here i don't know are you gonna actually go see someone about it or you're just gonna no i i think like you know i'll just look through some remedies take i'm gonna try refraining from ibuprofen because it makes you increasingly dependent or you know um but like you know i i think if i just give a couple give it a week or something it'll be okay yeah yeah yeah yeah as it is i'm not not sporty as it is well you won't be you won't be doing any high kicks during this interview so don't worry about that okay oh yeah [Music] so uh let's do let's do a little recap uh the the quickie version of who is sid where do you come from and what's your family upbringing with religion just a real summary now you've had the practice run yesterday so just uh blast yeah i think great okay let me turn back my memory okay i'm 18 years old i uh okay i tried to go as fast as i could it didn't work um i go to college um around the plano area um i live in texas um and i live in i live near plano it's around the dallas area um and i'm doing um and i'm my major is currently nursing colin is a community college um so i want to do some i want to do um the goal is med school but you know nursing gives me a strong medical background at least so you know after two years and planning to um planning to transfer so yeah i think that's uh basically um yeah that's that's as far as like that's the education and professional stuff what about uh religious upbringing and stuff like that so i grew up in a nominal um christian household my mom is a uh hindu convert because of my dad my dad kind of came to the faith at 19 after college or like in college after after some pretty difficult times um you know but he eventually eventually came to the faith so um you know they're my biggest they're one of my biggest influences and then you know the rest um so i always so we always grew up believing um i we read the bible went to church every um well every friday back in uae i used to live in the uae so uh just for because i forget that this is not i forget that i have to redo this entire uh intro all right so uh what was the point i was trying to make um yeah so i used to live in the uae and um we used to go to church on friday because friday was the um the friday was the weekend yeah but i think they're trying to change that now i think they're gonna change that soon to saturday and sunday just to have some kind of a universal basis but who knows uh did you learn any arabic uh i can read arabic i see like i can read letters i can read numbers i just can't understand arabic arabic is like a required subject in school which is miserable so it was just awful i mean today like i kind of regret not continuing on with it you know um because you know because i've become so um intrigued by um like you know now that i start reading the bible i try to go to the uh original you know autographer like the texts with the with the koine greek and then the aramaic and the hebrew so um so like you know it's it's just it's just it's just intriguing to um read how um and try to understand from the culture basically too because i yeah i think this is i think those are the basic points i can make about that but yeah i did study arabic a little bit and hindi they're two of my favorite languages actually yeah we got a nice preview of your hindi skills beautiful beautiful language uh one of the languages i'd like to know but i'm never gonna learn it is uh sanskrit oh my gosh yeah i've um it's required in india itself uh like one or two years i never took it i do want to take some classes in that though like you know in the future yeah and when the time arises or you know i kind of try to self-teach greek to myself like i like a reading letters so whatever uh yeah i studied i studied greek and i married a greek woman so uh we lived in greece we lived in greece greek greek is another one of my favorite languages okay cool i don't like i don't like the latin languages so much but i speak french i live in quebec i hate french i hate well i do i kind of like italian a little bit i i used to go to church in italian quite regularly i'm hoping to start again uh but with the whole covet thing they uh they locked us out of church and uh i'm not vaccinated did you get vaccinated i did not no i didn't feel i didn't deem it too worthy um my parents are uh i guess just because they're on higher risk but you know yeah considering that like we're um considering that we have lesser and lesser um cases by the day at least you know um around where i'm at uh there doesn't seem to be any reason for me to get it anymore plus plus i'm young my immune system is healthy yeah that's just that's just me like i don't yeah that's just omni i don't want to um over like every other vaccine you know i'm perfectly fine like you know for hepatitis you're not a crazy person no i'm not one of those crazy people is like i think some guy wants me to think they do some pharmaceutical multi-billionaire company wants me to pad their bottom line and get their get their money's worth and i'm like okay so that's one parent out of like you know a hundred thousand who don't want so i don't know just like yeah so i'm i'm i'm you have two siblings right uh i do have two siblings my sister is like i have an older sister and a younger brother and i have a older older brother who's my well you know brother-in-law oh okay yeah yeah you talked about him you he was a good influence on you yeah yeah no he's um yeah i know he's um no i looked him as a brother because that's what he used to me um so uh yeah so he's um i forgot i forgot how old he is he's just old um did you ever go through um a rebellion did you ever become atheist i got close it just it just doesn't add like you know around the age of 16 it just doesn't add up to um i definitely had my periods of like you know non-believing or you know screaming out to god during difficult times like you're not like you're not real or like you know you um you know if you know the things white horrible things keep happening to me it's like i was angry at god like for like a little bit like it varies um certain times and you see even bible and you see even like you know the most faithful christians in the bible um you know screaming at god like um like in lamentations like you see that all the time so um so i guess you know that was just a it was just like small increments that i um that had happened but i never i don't know i always um i'm always i've always been more of a mathematical person so you know the mathematics just didn't add up you know me screaming at god doesn't disprove his existence you know it doesn't stop like keep him from existing and like you know you hear the um arguments from like skeptics all the time is like um like we don't live in a fine-tuned universe like this world doesn't like this world um isn't where i'm like that's not my argument though like you know that doesn't disprove that there was a god for all we know god can be lazy he can be um you know a rebellious one but he's still he's still god like he's still a creator there's no you said you're you're leaning towards deism is that true well i've been a d is my entire um i've been a deist like throughout most of my life i was like early christian just because my it was my family's thing and then around the age of 14 to maybe 17 i was kind of deist just because i wasn't a practicing uh christian just i i never like i continued like reading the bible here and there but i wasn't uh i wasn't big on it i was never a believer in that i always believed there was a there was a god like never um never influenced by the christian god if that makes sense and then 18 uh i started reading more of the evidences concerning you know the resurrection um and you know like like with the um like what the apostles had to go through as well um afterward they had nothing to gain uh jay warner wallace i think that's his name he's a he's a host of uh dateline uh or like he's a homicide detective and he says that and he's a christian apologist too he also he says that you know there are three things that drive people um to do stuff sex money and power and when you look at you know when you look at you know the descriptions especially like you know historical accounts like where they're mentioned uh or like there's they had nothing to gain they had places you know in their um within their hebrew societies or like their jewish societies um especially with paul being a hebrew scholar so uh and being one of the biggest persecutors of christianity who sought to annihilate it when it came on the rise so it was just interesting to um read all those and i was like okay so like i've never had a religious experience but like my belief in christianity is stronger than it was before so um so yeah that's that's what do you think what's your impression of catholicism earlier it used to be um because i used to watch a lot of uh like last year i used to watch a lot of great comfort um i like you i like him yeah yeah i i love him he's like he's one of them like i love his demeanor especially like with his approaches to people uh i used to watch uh a lot of todd friel as well i'm not a fan of him anymore now uh he wretched radio have you heard of that okay well so he's like uh i guess like he's worked with ray comfort sometimes um in the past but i like his he's got a very i guess demeaning attitude um sure i know he wants to do right and stuff but he's not i don't know you don't like this watch i i don't like him too much no um and i also have like a i don't have it on me right now it's somewhere in another room but it's the evidence study bible by ray comfort ah is it good yeah i know i love it it's incredible of course like you know there's a lot of younger creationist bits in there and i'm not against that at all or you know you just don't buy it well last year i uh last year or like the year before that i went to i visited the creation museum yeah and i and i loved it i loved um who's who runs that was that uh that's ken ham ken ham okay yeah yeah so he's he created answers in genesis and like i think he rose you know the noah's ark and the creation museum so i like i love like everything there you know i'm a young creationist right i'm sorry did you know that i'm a young earth creationist i saw that somewhat like your description with inspiring philosophy like you know um did you know did you know i interviewed uh ken tovan do you know kent hovind oh yeah you know like i really don't like him i really don't like i'm sorry he's edgy he's got he's got a lot of ego and uh you know he's uh he seems full of himself like he seems a little bit full of himself no like he's very very full of himself i really don't like i appreciate it i like him i like him i like him though i appreciate a good argument when it's presented in front of me uh especially with something and especially by someone and i noticed that you know younger creationists uh i mean no offense to you of course of course um like you know they it's built more on the uh i guess it's built more in the denial of evolution than it is like you know disproving evolution it's more like evolution is absurd or like you know of course you know i think you know certain ideas of evolution like neo-darwinism um is um is just downright silly um yeah the the issue for me if you uh i forget which which episode it was but i'll send you the link where i described the sort of the moment where i realized that uh i'm the earth creationist and it has nothing to do with the evidence has nothing to do with the evidence has nothing to do with natural science yeah there's nothing to do with fossils or anything it has to do with it has to do with catholic dogma there's a dogma that mary is the immaculate conception she was conceived right um and that uh that adam and eve therefore cannot have been immaculately conceived they cannot have been conceived in the womb of whatever human non-human ape whatever they cannot have been conceived uh in a womb because they were before the fall they were sinless so that would have been an immaculate conception and so it cannot be that adam and eve were immaculately conceived because mary is the only immaculate conception so that's the dogmatic position and then i had to look at all the evidence and all the arguments for and against and i don't really care one way or the other they wait you can make an argument for pretty much anything including flat earth and yeah so i'm not that impressed by arguments because arguments you can have all kinds of arguments and build your case but i'm impressed by god and god i believe that god is a trinity and the second person incarnated the second person built a church and that church is infallible it's uh the church and christ are one flesh this is what saint paul says famously yeah that christ and his church are one flesh and it's a deep mystery you need to go are you okay no i was just not just my mom she okay you're throwing up your gang signs to her like just like you're just like all right yeah okay get your mom get your mom over here we'll have a tag team uh discussion oh no he's we need to talk to her about you set you straight no no no no no no you have nothing you can't prove anything your son is not a younger creationist how did you raise him like that yeah so i mean like my family is pretty like middle grounded on like you know the whole evolutionary basis we see evolution as a you know possible theory we see younger creationism too like as a as a theory when's the last time you went to church with your mom and dad um just two weeks ago or like last week so like we go okay yeah we we go all the time um and what's it like what's a service what's a service like at this uh you told me the name of the church gateway church yeah gateway church what's the service like typically you walk in you meet and greet do you say hi you grab a seat do you have a regular seat where you sit or you have a zone where you like to go to this park it just it just varies whatever we can whatever we can find and what's the service like uh so it's about 30 it's like 30 minutes of worship um what does that mean uh i'm sorry what does the worship consist of they consist of like uh your band with like a piano or guitar and then some lead singers and then okay music music yeah yeah i don't know how different that is in the catholic church but like you know quite different yeah okay right so is it more hymn-based or like i don't know well we have a very s there are different rights or many different rights in the catholic church and there are different particular churches we have the western latin right and we've got all kinds of eastern rights and uh some are more glorious than others and some are more austere some are more ornate and the one the right that i belong to the latin right is relatively simple but it's got uh you know these norms that you pretty much have to follow yeah for the right of the mass and yeah you know it's it's a set standardized um structure and we've got the liturgy of the word where we read from the bible well we don't well we don't read the the those up on the altar read and uh we have an active participation obviously and there's a psalm that's song usually sung or red and then we have so that's the liturgy of the word we have first reading second reading gospel reading and then you have the liturgy of the eucharist which is the body and blood of christ you know john 6 christ said if you don't eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you so this is what we take seriously and the bible is another issue that's uh the communion and stuff yeah yeah well holy communion in the eucharist all of the dogmas of the church but the the canon of scripture is a very important thing for you to think about as a christian if you're if you're interested in getting to know your christian faith and it seems like you know although you're a deist dabbling with deism i'd like you to go deeper into your christianity and become more of a theist because theism christianity is a theistic religion it's a monotheistic religion it's not deistic it's not deism at all okay so god is infinitely perfect and uh we need to educate ourselves about the nature of god and his this is one of the most um this is one of the most important questions like you'll ever ask like in in your life because this is what happens after and what's the book there oh it's um okay so this is a book that i got from my library it's called what's so great about christianity by denise de souza and he's actually uh so he's grown up in like the catholic church he's not left it or like you know abdicated his faith in like but he appeals is more non-denominational but i've seen his debates with um dan barker and christopher hitchens and like you know he's very concise at this point like you know you have and once on one side you see him as this um you know political conservative commentator which everyone really really hates or like not everyone but like you know just like you know you see him as like you know this um [Music] very not flippant what's the word uh i don't want to say aggressive either because he's not like that but i guess cutthroat when it comes to um let's say i'm i'm not like super political either but like you know so far i've read four chapters of this book and it's been incredible so wow yeah is there a back is there a little blurb on the back of the book uh like okay so it's got people um like you know endorsing it testimonials it's also got have you heard of michael shermer i think i have yeah who is he oh okay so he's uh so he's the uh editor of or like i think founder of skeptic magazine oh so okay he's not yes he's an agnostic and he's actually written um he's actually written like a little um little preview of the book i can't see the book okay okay so essentially like in um in short he says uh i'm not a theist or like i'm not a believer like i disagree with him on like several points but regardless if you know this um like he add like you know he takes the debate to like a new level you know uh as a theist and so i feel like you know everyone should read this that's basically what he says so that's fun do you do a lot of reading uh i try to do um a lot of reading now i've never been a reader uh in the past i'm trying to change that a lot since you know i'm in medicine now so wow yeah and plus i've started getting more interested in theology i've even started um like just to see how crazy i am in the evidence i got i found this one in the bible can you move it over towards in front of your face move the book in front of your face so i can see it in the book what does it say did jesus exist uh-huh it's by bart ehrman uh okay i think i heard bad things about him uh well so he's a he's a new testament critic uh so he um so he grew up and uh evangelical christian and then uh after school he saw the bible wasn't like you know it's an errand thing that he was um that he continually thought it was i can't say much about inerrancy because like i don't know much about it but it's a catholic dog by the the entire bible altogether and in all of its parts is inerrant okay so that's something that you have to believe as a christian but you're on that you're on that journey of uh discovery self-discovery what is so who is god what is christianity all that sort of thing but it's uh it's it's very very important one of the i mean the bible is so central because we don't actually if you think about this we don't actually have the bible in our possession we don't have it all we have are little scraps and fragments and yeah translations and mistranslations and errors and well i mean i don't know what percentage i don't know what percentage of error there is in our current uh bibles but it's it's a non-zero error it is 0.5 uh percent and people try to claim that you know it's full of errors and contradictions and first of all you know people need to understand that these are different accounts and some of them are based on them because you know you first of all you have mark which is based on the uh based on the uh teachings of peter and then um not teaching sorry but like you know the accounts of peter and then you have uh luke uh and matthew you can argue which one came first but like um you have luke talking about um using mark as one of his sources and um you know and then getting sources from other stuff and matthew doing that too and then john kind of being the odd duck out of the um out of the three um i i'm not sure if he uses um any of them too but you know but that's that's as far as my understanding goes again i'm just i'm i'm still on my journey trying to learn yeah you should you should always bear in mind that the the theories of these scholars are tentative theories and they do change over time they're not dogmatically enshrined as uh immutable eternal truths of god so just bear that in mind there are fashions in biblical scholarship there are fashions in everything okay including the natural sciences i studied uh physics and i know how there are fashions and people if something's fashionable and you're getting published if you're on this track that's just the way it is so that's the human nature but god is uh you know god's ways are not our ways god's thoughts are not our thoughts he has his own uh superior uh transcendent transcendent way and so that's why i put more stock in the church which is one with christ and the uh the infallible pronouncements of the church they're the guiding lights on our path in the christian faith that's why i think it's so important that non-catholic christians come and at least examine the claims of the catholic church because you have these god-given immutable unchanging truths and they're so essential because if you look at any christian denomination that's gone very far astray yeah like into almost like a sex cult sex cult sort of stuff like i've seen a lot of documentaries about these christian sex cults it's how are they able to stray so far it's because they are they're not rooted in the the dogmas that's why and if you look at the anglican church is a good example like they started out very very very catholic and they just strayed a little bit a little bit a little bit more and a little bit more and then before you know it they've got uh lesbian uh bishops you know whatever yeah so yeah i think yeah there are uh thing yeah there are uh certain denominations that seem to be yeah increasingly uh i guess changing or um adaptive towards um they're more worldly worldly yeah adapted to uh societal norms now because um like even the um and of course i mean no offense when i say this but like even the mormon church um and i've debated a lot of mormons too oh yeah so um you know and first of all it's a very very it's a very very flexible history um in in its origins um first of all you know it's just operated out of nowhere like and then all of a sudden conveniently um you and conveniently the angel moroni is like hey i need the plates back give it here you can't have it just use whatever you got uh just just claim it and just just just say what you remember we'll we'll figure it out then so um yeah and then you know the whole thing with the golden plate story like they try to bring up the three witnesses and like you know the 11 witnesses too but like there are problems here too because uh none of them were independent uh like they were all um related um they were all related by family uh like or they came from two families or related by either marriage or blood so that there's no independence in any of this there's a there's a there are a lot of really interesting rabbit holes to go down with mormonism but what i do what i do and what i recommend you do and what i recommend every thinking person does is to look at the metaphysical foundational metaphysical claims yeah what did the mormons say about the nature of god and if you look at what the normans teach about the nature of god you will know right away it's a false religion right away right away because it's a god which is subject to change it's a god which is uh material although subtle but material yeah no like there um i forgot is it the book of abraham or doctrines and covenant i don't know but it says it literally explicitly says elohim is a uh was a man of flesh and blown and then he became exalted and so i i keep arguing against these um i guess these dogmas that they've got going and then every revelation that comes up uh from the church is just when it's just occurring when they're challenged like you know with polygamy being a uh right being like one of the major things back in the 18th century and then they got challenged by government by the government saying okay we'll put you in jail uh if you continue practicing this and then they claim we got a revelation from god explicitly say i got a revelation from god saying uh we don't practice polygamy anymore just leave it as it is so you know warren jeffs uh yeah i've heard of him like the fundamentalist uh nds ffds yes sick sick pervert yeah i'm not saying that i'm not a sick pervert but the difference is that i acknowledge it and i repent of course okay he was showing pornography to his um stenographer whatever she is she was taking notes for him as secretary and it was also she was also his wife one of his many many many wives and some of his wives were like 12 14 years old but uh he was running away from the cops and he stopped at a motel with his one of his wives and he showed her some pornography she was horrified as she should be and disgusted and then he's like hey would you be willing to do this and it was like two guys with a girl and she's like no why would you ask me that but she still believed in him and uh you know he said he's a very very sick sick man he was having a lot of uh weird kinky religious rituals involving uh multiple women and multiple wives in his bed and stuff like that it's just disgusting and uh you know a lot of guys have sexual fantasies it would be nice to have a lot of women and good-looking women young women whatever and of course like lust is you know natural like for for man of course we're going to get these like these tendencies these proclivities are you know uh inevitable well it's good to it's good to remember that intimacy is good marriage is good uh family is good procreation is good but it has to be done in the right time the right place in the right way and uh with respect for the human dignity respect for the woman respect for yourself and respect respect for god first and foremost and i mean if you if you've ever read the book of tolbit it's an inter-testamental or whatever you call it it's one of these deuterocanonical books if you read it i've heard that there's a beautiful passage in there where he consummates his marriage to this his uh his wife and uh he does a prayer to god beforehand saying god this is not out of a desire for the pleasures of lust this is you know we're just doing this uh in a holy way and so there's a way to approach sex which is dignified and and uh holy and then there's just a pure selfish indulgence and right i'm not saying i'm superior to any other man we all we all have these perversions and cravings but to try to try to master yourself and to uh this is what it means to be uh christ to be another christ is to be prof you know king prophet uh and uh what is this they say priest prophet king priest prophet and king so the kingliness is that self mastery that's the the kingly aspect is mastery of self self control over your your uh your lower lower passions these sorts of appetites you know sure food that's another one food it's really hard to uh resist the the temptation of just gorging ourselves with whatever is salty and sweet and you know spicy and you're from southeast asia so you know what the spicy food how delicious it is oh my gosh i have no idea what kind of gifted palettes or like my mom and my sister are like have been given because i don't have them like they can eat i'm sure one day they can eat a carolina reaper and just cough twice and meanwhile i'm there like with a jalapeno i hate how it really wow so mild i know that's how how tame you are you're very um you're very gentle gentle palette mm-hmm i'm losing all my words today i don't know why it's okay good yeah anyway you could just do an interpretive dance like we'll understand i tried it so uh what do you want to talk about next we got exactly 20 minutes left and i got another guest jumping on the line here so that's all right what interests you most with uh with your very interesting journey with christianity and learning about god and theology and the sorts of things have you seen did you ever read this book fundamentally i just i checked it out and well i haven't uh well i i noticed that you had it and i was you're aware of it yeah so yeah now i'm aware of it at least you could check it out and other similar books yeah i think uh my my main i guess my main i'm sorry what was your question books and studying theology studying about god learning about christianity the history of the church the history of the church will really uh change you know history of the councils the history of the popes it's a dirty dirty history don't get me wrong okay humans are human they're gonna mess up so a lot of uh not a lot of but a few very embarrassing popes we've had and stuff like that but it's good to have read it to see uh what the church has done with education with medicine with all the you know with uh all the things that you and i cherish about western civilization what is the church contributed to that and uh what are the good things the church has done and what are the bad things that some of the members of the church have done yeah you know and uh to read about uh luther and zwingli and calvin and all those people and if they had good intentions or not and what do you think about the choices they made and that's very interesting of course like you know your fate shouldn't be based on a person like your vision man it should just be based on god and god alone um yeah so of course like you know as as humans like we'll um i feel like you know when you do have higher powers like in these places like when you're members um there's like you're bound to have these um like there's gonna be more pride then there's gonna be more um of god like in a godly influence so that that's just something that i notice like as a psychology student um psychology like i've like i've noticed these like and i never mind just um people who don't believe or like have no reason to believe and then people who are religious and i've seen jordan peterson actually talk about this in a podcast where he says um there's a spiritual element and there's a dogmatic element and you need both to um you need both to succeed because it could go haywire like um despite this i and i i think i'm paraphrasing there but like i agree with that a lot because i've noticed a lot of issues especially like with the denominations that we talked about and how far away they've drifted from the actual um from the actual um beliefs and the core doctrines so uh so yeah that's just um that was just my thing i guess my um the part that keeps me away from uh catholicism and i don't just well i don't you know have no hate or like you know any um disrespect for any people who are catholics or younger creationists uh but i just can't um i haven't seen any biblical uh evidence to say that mary herself was immaculately conceived yeah well you just need to use pure reason right and you need to you there's so many ways you can come at it the the way i came at it was through the question of authority well what it what is the church where is the church right like once you're a christian once and you i think you are a christian so uh i mean it's always it's we're always gonna have questions and we're always gonna have to solidify certain things where we have a weak or imperfect understanding but i think you're a christian and when you become a christian or when you start looking into your christianity you really need to ask yourself what is the church and where is the church okay and what can we expect from the church and what did god give to the church and what did god not give to the church and these sorts of questions using uh you know the principles of metaphysics and philosophy and purely pure reason you can come very quickly to an understanding with the central issue of authority you can come to the understanding very quickly that god is perfect and he is infallible and that god if god built a church he must have given that church a portion of his infallibility at least to protect the church from teaching error and the essential saving truths of the church okay from teaching error on those points that concern faith and morality he must have otherwise we are adrift we're completely adrift and we can never ever know if it's actually true is this this canon of are these the 73 books of the canon of scripture or are there more or fewer books right is the 66 of the protestants and then there's the canonical books we have yeah we have the orthodox who have even more than 73 so it's a question do we how do we know how can we know with certainty are we able to know with certainty and there are a lot of people like in the renaissance or whatever it was called the enlightenment uh who came to uh question a lot of these things and they ended up in a certain sort of fideism you can think about um i don't know if you're familiar with the history of philosophy but um kierkegaard for example you know the leap of faith it's all this fee days and stuff where we don't have access and uh that guy who talked about the numenol and the phenomenal kant emmanuel kant yeah the name actually uh covers a fair bit of philosophy in his book it's it's fun it's fine but it really is important as a christian to to to have a solid philosophical basis for your belief yeah so so how i guess my question is how do you reconcile um so how do you eventually reconcile that well it's all about authority like what what is the church where is the church and what does the church once you find the church what does the church teach the church teaches that mary was a virgin before during and after the birth of christ the church teaches that mary was immaculate completely conceived the church teaches and the church if you read this if you get this and read this you'll see the specific biblical and extra biblical reasons for that support the dogmas now it's very important to understand that the arguments even if taken from scripture the arguments are not themselves protected they are not infallible only the pronouncement of the dogma is protected only that is infallible all of the argumentation of all the scholars and these saints and popes and everyone who put together the arguments from scriptures and from tradition all of that is valuable and good and it might a lot of it most of it maybe all of it is true but it's not protected so what i have as a catholic which you don't have as a non-christian what i have is the certainty that god given certainty that the dogmas are true and all the i i have a perspective on the argumentation behind the dogmas that right that argumentation may or may not be true it might be partly true it's not completely false probably but uh you know only god is the truth itself and only god is immutable and perfect and infinite in every way and he bestows on his church a certain participation in the truth a certain participation in justice i'm just reading i just finished reading last night the code of canon law and uh it says in there that this is you know designed to help the church function and to have uh a way of saving souls by having well organized uh justice meted out in a proper way and it's subject to change and it has changed over the years canada law but it also contains unsure unchanging uh in immutable truths and these sorts of things so it's a mixed bag here below in this uh in this what we call the church militant the church here on this planet where we've got corrupt sinners like myself as members of the church not yet purified okay so it's a mixed bag we've got truth and we've got half truths we've got some lies we've got some errors and it's hard to sort it all out but i don't need to sort it all out because i have uh this this fundamental belief that god is infallible and that god if he built a church that that that he has protected that church from teaching error concerning faith moral so sorry i ran rambled on and on and on i hope you i hope you appreciate the emphasis on placing on this and why i'm placing emphasis on this it's because we need to have certainty we need to know that god is good god did not leave us orphans he gave us everything we need to be saved and it's it's his church everything is in his church when christ descended into heaven he said it's better for me that i go because if i don't go i won't send you the holy spirit the holy spirit is the spirit of the church and the the primary author of the god of the bible is the holy spirit so it's all about god and how he works with his economy of salvation to bring uh you know those of us who hopefully will end up in heaven to bring us all home safe and sound and we need to have certainty for that in in uh not in everything but in a lot of uh a lot of things the essential saving truths this is what we say yeah i guess i'm seeing um some i'm guessing you consider the uh dogmas of mary being um mary being immaculately conceived in the ver an aversion throughout her entire life uh as a um as an essential truth yeah like absolutely absolutely because it bears on the dignity of god the dignity of christ if jesus christ was if jesus christ descended from apes and if his mother descended from apes that has significance right that that is that is uh i can't i could not bear to belong to a religion that said that the god man evolved from apes i would not belong to that really well he does well he doesn't evolve for me because that again supposes that um you know like jesus was actually conceived and not uh immaculately conceived so you know it doesn't have to like he like like he even says that you know um we um you know through him all things were created so he's been he's been there like throughout the entire he's been there throughout the um entire uh creation encounter like he's like through i don't know how to put it into words but um right right yeah you know i understand the basis of the gist of what you're saying like there's nothing there's no shame in having created the apes okay and there the ape is a beautiful creature of god but i'm telling you that the mother of god mary did not evolve from an ape she is not an ape because evolution teaches us not only that we came from apes but that we ourselves are apes i hope you realize that that's what uh that's the teaching of evolution we are apes according to evolution so the mother of god is an ape according to theistic evolution theistic evolution the mother of god is an ape that's that bears all the dignity of jesus christ um so there's um i mean there are different uh versions of uh evolution like evolution it is uh very very broad um so like currently i'm middle grounded i'm not um like i can't i don't think it's 6 000 years ago like when the world was created but i also um have trouble believing the um the entire like i started reading stuff from michael beahy like you know about the irreducibility complex yeah yeah irritational complexity yeah yeah and irreducible uh complexity yeah and i also saw this um you know discussion he did with um joshua swamidas and so joshua swaminas is uh he wrote a book called the genealogies of adam and eve so he uh he grew up a young earth creationist and then uh you know through his um fascination by science you know first of all he's his entire thing and i agree of course like you know uh is based um uh like your entire um entire face should be predicated on you know a relationship with jesus christ and not about like you know the origins of man but regardless you know but i feel like you know young earth creationists including kent hovind uh and i this is where i really came to dislike him because i used to be like a fair follower of his and then i realized he doesn't really know what he's talking about whenever he because his entire uh of course like um i like i've i've seen a lot of his stuff and like his um i saw this debate he did with inspiring philosophy and he was immense he was incredibly disrespectful oh um so well not only that but he was also not appealing to any of the hebraic texts because um he had this he had this entire belief this core foundation that the king james yeah the king james version is the untouched um like infallible uh word of god and i'm i'm there like there's i unders like i understand where you get that but you know the there's a difference between um there's a difference between faith and then there's a difference between just um you know uh stubbornness and yeah so well which king james version because they're different versions right right yeah yeah so there's uh i mean i'm pretty sure he holds to like the 16th century uh version that came out uh but um but yeah so i personally i read like different uh versions of the one i have currently is the esv and then um which is great i love the esv uh i also read the nlt which is not a word for word it's more contextual living the new living training the new living translation yeah and the nkjv as well which is the version that's like the evidence study bible i still use it even though like it's a young earth creationist based and like you know yeah so like i have nothing against like you know those types of yeah stuff it's just the thought of you know um because i started like reading through where um you know certain uh hebraic um you know with the hebraic um literature and what it means to be the imago day or like you know in the image of god everything is um so everything or purpose here is um based on so the imago day is more um founded on like a purpose of purpose of being here like you know to you know as he um i guess like again i'm still learning you're getting a lot of this from michael jones uh well some of it from michael jones other things from like you know reading other um or reading other works uh and checking out you know um old testament scholars like um what's his name michael heiser and john walton as well uh they're great sources again i'm not um and i try to keep an open mind whenever i read everything including catholic doctrine yeah you know the catholic perspective on the image of god is reason and free will that's what distinguishes us yeah from the animals right so that's i mentioned this to michael jones he didn't like that you know um but uh i was you know i had bad chemistry with him when i interviewed him and i was not very polite did you find that i was rude to him or no um well i think it was like a i think it was uh there are like two sides to it so um i think certain uh like you know when people do have uh disagreements like even you know when there's um i guess when they start to um [Music] when they start to found their points better or um you know have a strong have a stronger um have a stronger premise it does kind of agitate the other uh it does kind of agitate the other side a little bit so i i i'm just saying this like in all honesty whenever i whenever i watch people so that's just um human nature yeah of course like you know to error as humans so forgive divine yeah so we've got five minutes left before my my guest comes on my guest uh i've never met him but he claims to have been uh in seminary like training to be a priest a catholic priest okay and now he's an atheist so how does that happen i don't well i guess um well i mean i don't really i again i'm not too sure i've never been in se i've never like um had like a seminarian type of um you know life or like i've never had a strong um strong christian belief throughout my entire life but um i think what does happen is it just kind of strays away it's the same thing you see with uh you know the new testament scholars that we have today like bart ehrman and then we have robert price who um who became a really um who was a baptist minister for several years and then he straight away i became an atheist and he's now a jesus mythicist so and so that this did jesus exist actually talks about um you know jesus mythicism like that's trying to um you know acknowledge all of this and and so far i've uh loved reading it because i'm getting um his his historicity of you know jesus from different accounts like tacitus and josephus um getting mentions from um you know memphis like earl doherty richard carrier and i've seen a bit of richard carrier and i don't like his approaches at all he isn't his entire principle is based on the bayes theorem and um he which is more probability probability-based bayesian arguments asian yeah and he's one of those types of people who will um who will watch some who'll watch someone on youtube and kind of take it out of context like if you if he hears him if he hears a misspoken word uh you or me you'll say he doesn't know what he's talking about he's a great faker that's not so it's not cool uh my i'm gonna let you go but my friend joe says what's uh he's asking what's your opinion of matt dillahunty do you know him i i've seen a bit of a stuff actually uh i think he was also a christian growing up and then i think he might he may have been mormon even i i'm not sure i know iron are always mormon yeah but i read that he was a skeptic throughout so yeah you're faithful throughout he's also one of the more annoying types have you heard my interview of him one in two oh i i was just watching it and then you gave me the email one of the funniest ones it's one of the funniest ones i've done because he's a real character i like him a lot yeah i know i've seen some of his stuff and like you know i have a funny thing i try to challenge myself whenever i watch these um whenever i watch anti-theists or atheist um related things so um so listen we will come back and we'll go deeper into some of the uh bible stuff some of the topics you're interested in do you read one book at a time or do you read multiple books at one time like i see you have two books there you talked about uh-huh uh well i try to read uh well i'm i'm trying to read one book at a time now like i realized i was going kind of haywire and getting flop-sided and what i was thinking like like okay christianity uh first of all did jesus exist he yes i'm like wait so i'm and then i'm trying to read the bible on top of that and of course it's a lot it's a lot yeah so like i i need to like try to take it slow i remember uh one of my favorite verses is galatians six verse nine which is uh which is um uh do not uh wear yourself um do not wear yourself out to get rich or not do not wear yourself out um for in due time we will uh reap a harvest if we do not give up nice yeah let me let me get it out maybe um my friend my friend joe says dill hunty was a baptist before yeah i heard about that yeah um i've seen uh he hosts the atheist experience now i've seen some yeah i've seen some of his stuff um and uh he's very aggressive in his debates i guess yes um he hung up on me i uh when i have that episode you can listen to are you serious he actually huh yeah because i wanted to talk about the principle of sufficient reason which i think you should look into if you don't if you haven't already and he kept trying to talk about your faith oh what about all this faith-based stuff and i'm like i don't want to talk about my faith-based beliefs i want to talk about my certain philosophical knowledge that i have that god is real the uncaused first cause he's like oh but you believe in the amount of conception yeah that's all faith-based yes yeah he tries to tackle the um he tries to tackle you know the beliefs of someone rather than the existence of god let's talk about philosophy i don't want to talk i got to i got to faith by philosophy so let's not put the voice before let's not put the horse before the cart let's talk about philosophy and then once you believe in god then we can talk about christianity the case for christ exactly that that is the argument i try to actually tell people that you know they need to be bilingual i tell christians all the time and what i mean by that is that they should have a secular face not because we want to wear two faces but because we're uh trying to appeal to like another um another person like we have a christian language that we will speak at home or a church and then we have something like the outside if somebody asks you what is uh is homosexuality wrong like what do you think about homosexuality and you turn to leviticus you don't realize that person doesn't understand the authority of leviticus so you so you in order to have a proper debate or proper discourse it's important to meet on some middle ground especially like you know when i started reading through um philosophy my speech class i had two uh like a week ago uh supposed to make a speech and i made my entire speech on you know the moral argument for god um and i appealed to like several philosophers even atheist philosophers too uh my first premise was based on like you know consciousness and how everything is derived from rationality and reason and um so so you know i um so this led me towards you know the path of god it's like there's no way that there can you know because if objective morality exists you know i can't just say morality doesn't exist or like it came from like an evolutionary principle which doesn't need to be that it doesn't need to be the case because even if even if evolution uh is true uh like you know we um we'll still have this core understanding we'll still so again i'm not like i'm not sold i'm middle grounded on everything so far but essentially um you know philosophy led me to become more of a theist than a deist or it led me more to like a christian uh base because you know and then also uh solves the issue of there being because like our objective source um our objective source of morality uh is god as a rational uh necessary entity uh and you know if and there's that uh popular claim that atheists make called the euthyphro dilemma uh which was uh given by plato and it states i'm sure you're familiar with it it states that you know um is god good because like is something good because god says it's good or um does god say it's good because it is good right and you know this is a false dichotomy uh and this is one i brought this up to like some um mormons and they had no answer because their entire thing was based on like god is changing and you know god has a creator before him before him beforehand before him so like my entire thing is this plays into the euthyphro dilemma like one of the two because god is constantly changing or you know he has a source of morality bigger than him which is bigger than him so you know i can't um it's very difficult to follow that and that's the problem because you know if um there's a because there's a common question which is very self-defeating which is uh who created god and i'm thinking what a stupid question i can't believe that you know as a non-believer at one point like you know i used to ask that same question i'm like what kind of a question is this so we have a lot to discuss uh i i'm looking forward to part two doing part two with you you sound really good today you're more comfortable today and i think uh we'll get the flow going and next time i won't have the time constraint it's just because just because we rescheduled you from last night today that's why it's interrupting at my schedule but uh very great to see you here talking and uh you know comfortable uh sharing your uh excitement about all things philosophy and religion it's very exciting i'm very happy for you and uh so thanks for coming on and we'll talk very soon okay schedule you use a scheduling app and anyone listening to this if you want to be a guest use the scheduling app on my website it's really handy a scheduling tool and it fits it right on my google calendar and then we could just uh schedule it that way okay yeah one of the points i wanted to talk about was like the proportionate causality but we can talk about that later yeah yeah yeah for sure you brought that up and i wasn't familiar with it and like i'm just trying to do more reading on it now yeah oh this is a book you should uh look into right here uh-huh okay oh i've heard yeah i've heard of him the metaphysics of evolution if you've ever watched um census fidelium youtube channel uh that's where i discovered uh chad ripper and he's the one that helped me actually to get over the hump into young earth creationism so that that's pretty cool fidelity i'm sorry census fidelium the sense of the faithful yeah so uh we'll talk very soon my friend all right god bless you god bless you david bye bye goodbye