CVS Live Guest - 2022-10-06 - Jack Thayer

Author Streamed Thursday October 6th, 2022

There are 206 episodes in the Guest:Solo series.

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CVS Live Guest - 2020-02-23 - Pykris

Streamed February 22nd, 2020

CVS Live Guest - 2020-02-22 - Aidan Lisney

Streamed January 25th, 2020

CVS Live Guest - 2020-01-25 - Kalen R.

I met Jack in the comments section of my YouTube channel. I liked his comments and invited him on. He is a 24 year old revert Catholic who loves his faith and is surrounded by like-minded Catholics. God bless his soul.

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These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
ah it's a ruler it's only inverted but it's only inverted when it's a non-catholic or a Catholic who's dissenting who's not a faithful Catholic so we're live I'm here with Jack Thayer Jack how are you doing good how are you I'm very well thank you thank you for taking the time to come on we struggled to figure out a schedule and we're finally here I'm so uh I'm so happy to talk to you and to meet you and to learn a little about you and maybe just tell uh tell me and tell my listeners a little bit about yourself Who You Are what you believe and how you came to believe what you believed [Music] okay so yeah I'm Jack um from the Midwest from Minnesota originally uh critical Catholic but I didn't really take my faith too seriously until uh junior year of college um I think that's common for a lot of people uh especially going to a second University and I'm brainwashing into some things so yeah that started probably four years ago now I had to start taking my food seriously but especially I would say the last year um you know starting to live on your own and take the next step so that was a story with me cool and so when you were very very young do you remember going to church with the family do you remember the smells and the bells do you remember seeing a priest up in his robes talk to me about your earliest memories and sort of what had an impact on you like hey there's a God and I should worship him and he loves me and all that earliest memories well I think and we always went to church every Sunday but it was felt like there were some things we just didn't believe in because we're kind of that liberal vein I think or like most practicing practicing Catholics that we want to raise it so um I sort of took it for granted and then once I felt The Temptations of the world it was easy to drift from the church like almost everybody I knew um but yeah the earliest memories yeah we were really close to the priests uh at our Parish but again I thought they were like not super committed so that was a little disappointing even as a very young child you you sensed that I think so yeah but you can't really put words to it to get a little older until you really know what if your sieges and everything yeah well how did you discover what the church really teaches like was it purely through reading the the Saints or the catechisms or the councils or what did you read I was mostly just YouTube videos yeah YouTube videos they're simple Google searches okay you know you can figure out what a church teaches very easily yeah and certainly create their morals so and then uh starting in college junior year going to the Newman Center oh that's pretty cool yeah I've attended I've attended some of those masses at the Newman Center here um yeah pretty cool so what university is there McGill it's pretty yeah pretty well known and there's also University of Concordia very very very very very very left-leaning I think both of them are but especially Concordia but um the uh the questions that you had as a young adult I mean you're still a young adult but uh the questions that you had were the deal breakers where it's like I need to have a solid answer to this or I'm out or were they just like I uh sort of a general question like hey I'm Catholic I love my faith and I just want to learn more tell me more and you just digest everything without question or were there hurdles that you need to get past these hurdles uh just talk to me about your information gathering was it like critical to your moving forward or was it just more more is more is more is more uh I think that originally there was resistance to it because I was immersed in the secular worldview and then he sort of hard to digest those things um especially you know like being away from the faith but then coming back uh little by little it's not really a big deal just uh yeah a little by little it wasn't really like a hardcore conversion point no there were no issues intellectually where you're like I don't get it I don't understand it therefore I'm going to tentatively reject it there's any sort of um intellectual battle within your own heart mind and soul uh yeah of course I mean I think with a lot of people uh going through college in uh who take god seriously there is there's always that battle it's always temptation but um before the I would say my reversion um yeah there was some uh discontinuity with that that wasn't uh wasn't super easy to uh translate into um being you know fully immersed and accepting of all the teachings outside it sounds it sounds to me correctly if I'm wrong but it sounds to me like a lot of your emphasis was on morality and living the Ten Commandments and these sorts of things uh as opposed to some abstract theological issue um that a lot of people online obsess over these overly intellectual nuanced points of Doctrine it seems to me like you have a healthier approach as you entered the church it was just about getting your life in line with the life of uh well the life of the Saints and the saint that you're destined to be if you're going to go to heaven am I correct in that intuition uh probably I think a lot of it was the teaching of hell and how straightforward the church is on morality you know with this teachings on Morrison and stuff like so for example I'll give you just an example of where the struggle was like in college there's um it's very hard to go to mass every Sunday uh in that lifestyle you know I mean with morning masses and stuff so that was something to that was uh that took you know and if you think about it like that's a moral sin you know somebody on the road to hell because of that you know because I missed a mass and that was just something that you know some digestion and uh cognitive realizations yeah it's interesting it's fascinating that uh a bright young man with all kinds of Temptation would opt for the Narrow Path I mean this is uh congratulate you and I congratulate all the other uh nice young men who are striving to follow Christ it's not easy I mean I was a full-on atheist for my whole adult well 25 years of my adult life from age 14 to 39. and uh you know I know what it is to indulge in sin I know what it is to dabble with a sort of shrouded nihilism where it's just like seize the day and grab whatever Pleasures you can if you think you can get away with it because there are consequences and there are you know it's a dangerous world so you can't just go and grab that big guy's girlfriend right you have to be tactful and you have to figure out a way to get your pleasure without getting yeah punched out yeah I'm yeah I mean it wasn't like to an extreme for me like I always took I would say morality seriously I just struggled with some of the teaching stuff um the church taught you know you've seen a few of my videos you should know by now it was a Satanist before my conversion right so no I didn't know that you didn't know that no are you serious yeah wow atheistic Satanist so the principles like you like you would pray no no it's atheistic Satanism is all about me my will and uh you know the law of the Lima do what thou Wilt she'll be the whole world but you didn't really believe in the devil absolutely not that's part of that's part of uh if you read Anton lavey's brand of Satanism it's all about reason and uh that's a joke right that they think that they've elevated reason because they don't know how to think and uh it's only it's only when I became a Christian that I understood basic metaphysics and I'm not saying that I understand properly or well but or comprehensively certainly but to begin to have some sort of a glimpse of Ultimate Reality and have some sort of indication uh for uh morality and the basis in metaphysics like I said it's only Christianity that gave me that I think it will non-uh what do you call it a sort of generic monotheism is what I first converted to and I was an enemy of Christ in this church so I did not want to be Christian I became a sort of de facto Muslim without believing the distinctive distinctives of Islam either but I wanted to worship God the one God of Judaism Christianity and Islam so I became a generic monotheism through my reading my study of philosophy and then begrudgingly I looked into Christianity and I fell in love I fell in love with the Christianity and for me as a student of philosophy Western philosophy I knew that Christianity was Catholicism I knew that because I hated Catholicism I hated it because I knew that Catholicism was the fullness of Christianity I just just knew that from the emphasis that it had in the history of of Christianity it wasn't the Baptists in the first century second century third Century fourth Century all the way up to today right it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't the Anglican Church you know so uh you know I hated the Catholic church but I knew that was Christianity and when I when I realized that I love Christianity and that I could accept the teachings because I didn't really know what the church taught I just hated it but when I started to examine it with my love of truth that was sort of always there in the background even as a Satanist that's why I was reading philosophy because that's the love of wisdom and so I love truth and when I discovered that Christianity was not what I thought it was I was very very pleased and delighted and of course you know I feel bad for having been an enemy of Christ in its church but even to this day I'm an enemy of Christ in this church to the extent that I love myself and I'm attached to sin and all that sort of thing it's very much very much still with me and I I'm very sad to say that I'm not a saint not yet thankfully God's given me a little bit more time at least I hope I'll survive long enough to you know learn how to love God and to detach from all my lower attachments here with pleasure yeah you can sympathize yeah I mean you're in the same boat I mean I was never an atheist but okay so you never you never left the faith completely you were just lukewarm yeah yeah okay so okay that's good cool so where do you go from here uh what's your vision for your future in the church are you called to the priesthood marriage single life what's the calling I'm not really sure that's part of the discernment I was thinking about this and maybe you have an opinion but I am not convinced that God has an active um an active plan for which vocation you choose I think God might leave it to us and it's part of the Free Will that he he's given us um because it seems to me just from my own experience so whatever you choose it seems that God affirms that so looking at it retroactively see a retrospectively look you see that God is affirming and you say okay guys firming this Choice here in this location but uh yeah I'm not I'm not sure but it seems like it'd almost be contrary to free will to say that I've got his Destiny to be a priest unless you know apart from divine revelation of course so yeah I tend to agree with you I mean I don't know God only knows how much how much free will we have and uh I know one thing I do know is that God gave us free will Free Will is good and that God respects our choices and I mean if he wants to not just in a different direction I think you know that would be exciting right I'd like hey God nudge me nudge me you know right now I'm saying this for real like God nudge me in the right direction because like hey yeah you know what I mean I don't want to have that much responsibility where I'm making all these bone-headed decisions and like I'm a loser anyway my life is complete a complete wreck just because you know I was left to my own devices for 25 years and as an adult and I just made bad choices right so it's like hey God you can help you can help me out now give me some nudge nudge me in the right direction so I definitely am open to uh correction and uh I want to be corrected and so I I think that you and I agree about free will like we are we have a lot of freedom we make our choices and then God works with that he cooperates it's funny to say that God is cooperating with us but he is and the more that we decide to cooperate with God the better that dance goes it's I often describe it as a dance you know he's a perfect dancer and we're very clumsy and awkward and we have bad breath and we step on his feet and stuff like that yeah but does God's plan only have to do with us staying in a state of grace and uh and avoiding evil you know Morrison particular or is there more because yeah God doesn't care if I move my hand this way or move my hand this way you know so why why would he care you know the bigger thanks or maybe are you saying he does care about you yeah no no no no no well I mean I think everything everything has significance everything has meaning everything's important and we'll find out in all eternity the importance and the significance and the meaning of every gesture that we make every thought word deed and Omission um but you don't think anything is just a matter of personal taste that God doesn't take a position on yeah yeah yeah I mean the the church does teach that not that there are there is a category of thoughts words deeds and omissions which are neutral morally neutral they are neither meritorious nor damnable so uh that's the church's position I looked into it because I was very curious you know I was very curious about that that question like are there some neutral things where it's just like a little bit of a playground where I don't need to worry and you know that not that I fall into scrupulocity I don't I fall into the opposite sin which is presumption I'm always presuming that hey well God loves me and he's all loving and merciful and all this sort of thing that's where I tend to go in my faith Journey it's just like yeah I'm good enough and God loves me that's usually the side that I err on but um so I'm not scrupulous not at all but you know I do sometimes think about it at least like am I pleasing God what could I do to please God and am I displeasing God and is there anything in between like where it's just like I'm I'm allowed to sort of have some Breathing Room in that way mm-hmm yeah fascinating questions though I mean it really is uh their great great Saints who have contemplated uh this question the Harry and thorny question of Free Will and Grace and you know the Calvinists which way they went right so we know we know that's not the way yeah that way dead end wrong like warning warning like you're wrong hello you're wrong so I mean there are lots of dead ends and we have a lot of Christian communities sort of mopping out the edges of of a normalcy the edges of uh of reasonableness and it's like it's just so obvious that uh you know like a lot of Catholics have said especially the popular YouTube Talking Heads they're talking about Catholicism they often emphasize it's not either or it's both and and it's the the middle way between the extremes and the sort of uh that Aristotelian idea of moderation and yeah yeah virtue yeah and yeah like I was thinking about this too um I was hearing a little bit of consequence and um you know he says like uh the will is ordered towards the good or that's what a properly ordered will is and but nowadays it's certainly more complicated what the good is I would say because I mean you could say that I mean and the wheel is supposed to be ordered to Nature in a certain way that's corresponds to nature but like this for example this conversation that's over online is this word to Nature I mean I don't really think so so is this or towards the good I mean not really but uh you know that's my point of how it's it's more complicated um but I'm not really sure that people are like designed to like have these uh you know like relationships over techniques you know yeah you know it's not really corresponding to Nature have you read the 16 documents of Vatican 2 yet all of them now because there's one on mass media Communications oh really yeah and it's firmly endorsing using the internet and using every means of communication so I would disagree I would strongly disagree with your last statement that it's not natural to be on the internet I mean it's definitely not as wholesome and organic of a communication as if we're sitting down Face to Face by the wasn't the internet made in the 80s no I had internet in 84 I remember going on the internet in 1984 it wasn't called the web it was just the internet with the bulletin board systems and one of the first things I discovered was internet pornography like in the early early days I was 14 years old and it's like you would laugh to see this so-called pornography because it's just like it was actually literally made up of the alphabet like alphanumeric characters so abc123 and all that asterisks and everything so you put those letters I'm sure you've seen these text images where it's made upload of text but it's just green screen so it's like green font on a black screen and it's just made up of different characters of different weights and different proportions to give you the image of this half-naked woman on the screen so uh just to tell you that there is the reason I'm mentioning this is because pornography dominates the internet today and it's definitely not of God it's definitely evil it's satanic and it was there from the beginning it was there from the beginning I know that firsthand yeah but you said Vatican 2 talked about the internet how did they know about the internet in the 60s oh no no it was just talking about the uh the all forms of communication in a general thing I now I understand why you asked that yeah yeah they were talking about all forms all technology that's used for communication TV radio or any other technologies that are developed for communication they're all to be used they are not to be shunned they are all to be used okay so uh yeah so I and there have been also uh commentaries and footnotes and stuff like that added to the documents which okay like they don't just leave the document dead there's a constant referral to the documents and putting it into the context of the ever-changing Technologies of the world but yeah I forgot I forgot about that yeah the birth of the internet was probably like theoretically already started by the time the 60s were here like there were the the those big huge Punch Cards and I don't know if you're aware of these huge huge computers like the size of football stadium or whatever it's okay and now your watch is more powerful than that warehouse full of computers yeah yeah but yeah Satan is evil and he's going to use all the technology and God is good and he wants us to use the technology in a good way he doesn't want us to abuse it or use it for bad stuff so yeah because what's the Amish reasoning about using any technology I wonder I mean I I I I I admire the sort of Luddite mentality and the wholesome you know values that they seem to have uh you know a focus on family and a conscious effort not to be distracted by technology um they also have some strange rules like you can't have a face on your doll like if your little daughter has a doll can't have a face on it there's some strange rules like that you know so huh that is your any chance yeah so I mean I don't know I tend to sort of admire those quaint old-fashioned sects even the radtrad Catholics who are so nostalgic for the good old days like I mean I hate their sect I hate it but I also have a certain admiration for that Nostalgia like I think they're so so wrong but I also appreciate the Nostalgia I do appreciate the Nostalgia but they are dead wrong yeah I mean talking about Mass communicate your communication via internet how it's a good thing but if you look on social media in general it's a huge Cesspool oh God it's really a terrible place so I mean so going back to Thomas Aquinas and ordering your will to the good and corresponding to nature maybe it's that the internet is not is by its design uh because the desensitation mostly that you get you get these cesspools of you know just terrible and so that's why it's just better to stay off so that's what I was yeah yeah I think earlier you know like is that what you do do you avoid the internet well I mean it's impossible but kind of I mean my job I don't but I'm talking about like communication specifically um I mean for research purposes it's great internet but I'm talking about like communicating in social media you know yeah yeah it's talk so um yeah so that's what I was getting at yeah yeah I agree I agree 100 so do you have measures in place like sort of uh guidelines or little rules that you impose on yourself like I know it's fun to trash talk but I'm not gonna go on Twitter and trash talk I'm gonna limit myself to 15 minutes a day or whatever do you have little guidelines or rules that help you to minimize the damage that's being done to your soul well I don't have any social media so ah I mean I have uh Gmail and so I may have de facto and YouTube if I don't post anything okay uh but I mean in high school and college I had Twitter but I believe all that and same thing with Instagram and yeah it's all bad but yeah yeah yeah what's once you get into the religious uh like conversations too I think it gets even worse yeah yeah but uh but it's like impossible to not be a part of that so that's why I want to talk to you to talk about your conversation with some atheists because I think it's really important to discuss those because yeah that's like all the online just that's where all the discourses really online yeah and it's such a narrow scope that they take and it's it's I think inorganic like it's the it's that disconnect it's sort of the embodiment of that disconnect that you're talking about and uh it's sort of like a toxic poison yeah this this discourse that's that's ongoing and I don't know if you're sort of if you have any idea about my history with online like text based uh comment section stuff but my policy is don't get in deep just be surface level silly and don't try to win like don't try to win arguments just like take little Jabs or whatever at The Atheist like silly little Jabs and it's okay to be wrong it's okay to contradict yourself like the the main my main position when I'm in the comment section and you won't see it on my channel but you'll see it if you if you see when I do comment on like atheist experience or something like that my my basic position is that I'm in the safety of the Ark okay Noah's Ark yeah the church yeah and I'm just like making fun of the people that are putting themselves in danger by not getting onto the ark and I'm just trying to go with them and humiliate them so that they'll say hey what is this uh you know what is what is this Arc he keeps talking about and what is this safe safe space that he keeps talking about and uh you know just to sort of uh awake them from their stupor yeah so that they can see that their religion is is absurd completely absurd and uh then they can get on board like I mean there are only two camps like um Saint uh what's the guy's name from the Jesuits Loyola yeah Saint Ignatius Loyola said they're two two hills with two banners one of Christ and one of antichrist and you just have to choose there's no third option so I'd like to goad people into even if it means annoying the hell and I'd like to go them into sort of seeing through the mist and the fog lifting their eyes and looking up up and seeing those two Hills so they can make a clear choice and if they choose Antichrist and they choose to go to hell well that's the choice yeah what's your opinion on how many people well the Saints say most you know and Jesus said it's a Broadway to Hell in a narrow path to heaven so my hunch if I had to guess I don't want to guess but if I had to guess I'd go with Jesus and the Saints apparently not all of them said most of them no no some saints said that most people could have happened good I like them I prefer that opinion but I don't know um I don't know exactly I just was on Bishop's parents uh we're gonna fire and be coated some I think maybe Saint Therese will sue okay or Saint Catherine Sienna I would prefer that I would prefer that I would prefer that is real but no one ends up going there that's my preference I think that it's naive to think that that's the case I think it's very naive and dangerous and I think we have to be sobered sobered by the fact that there are people destined for hell I think it's not destined but that are on the road that choose hell like they ultimately wind up in hell yeah and not destined no I'm sorry very loose use of that word but I mean um at the end of the day there are going to be some people in hell that's uh at the end of the day but the End of Time the the question I have theologically is are people that have died and that are damned are they in hell are they waiting the Judgment uh before going actually formally into hell do you know are they the people who are Dan yeah they're in hell they're already in hell they're already in hell waiting for judgment or is it time time is not there's no time there I think they um all of a certain they go straight to hell and then they're part of the general resurrection and then they're condemned in front of everybody who's ever lived but they go to hell I don't know how that works because did they come back on Earth and then they leave hell you know do they enjoy that little do they enjoy that little break where it's like oh I finally I got a little break and then and the other thing I was wondering uh not that you're an expert but um you might have some ideas uh the devils like do they enjoy messing with us do they enjoy do they get any pleasure out of it or are they like are they are they suffering as much when they tempt me with a sexy woman or something when they tempt me with my imagination are they enjoying that or are they just as miserable as they will be for all eternity and they're just doing their thing spontaneously without getting any pleasure out of it like when I follow them because I do follow their uh imagery sometimes and I get excited about the stuff they present me with right so when I follow them they get excited because they think they've got me and they can win my soul and they can take me away from God they must get some sort of sick pleasure out of that no I don't know maybe yeah I mean why else would they do it so somebody's not Pride so they're gonna they get a little they're enjoying this time before the end of time even though they're they're in how are that are the is Satan and the demons Satan and the demons are they in Hell already even now even when they're messing with us on Earth do you know yeah I think so yeah I talked to a seminarian about this the other day he says that since they don't physical bodies they're outside of time okay so that's and then they but God allows them to work in the world even though they're in hell yeah but that doesn't mean that they can't like pre-skin you know exercise them out of areas do you have an opinion about the flock of pigs is that the word flock heard of people yeah the herd of pigs like I've heard of that yeah what what uh was the point like well like did the demons that left the demoniac and went into the pigs was that like um was that was that a like okay maybe it was a demotion like it was a step down for the demons but it was like a better place than being left outside of a body I don't know like was it was it sort of an okay transition and then they went over the cliff when the pigs went over the cliff I'm assuming the pigs died so the demons had to leave like these are just silly questions but I've always wondered about that scene when the demons went into the pigs and the pigs went over the Clifton and died like well maybe there's some deep symbolic meaning to that or something but what's your impression of all that for Christ says total control over all Spirits so he can do whatever he wants about what this where the spirits go who they possess they possess anything so is that what else did you ask was it just that what's my opinion yeah they want Christ commanded them that's the only reason why they went there and then when they died they probably went probably I don't know what it says but it's probably after speculation it probably will the demons when they're not possessing uh when they're not in a living being like a material being they're just wandering around just trying to catch souls or torment Souls well I think that from what I understand is that their de facto place is in hell and by default all the evil spirits yeah and the only way they can lead that is if God allows them I saw maybe a curse of which sucks or something I'm not sure but and then once they leave the person I don't know maybe they can I don't know if there's one uh document cases of demons because that's an inanimate objects as there I mean there's been movies on it but yeah I don't know what the church teaches about that I think I heard an exorcist a very well reputed conservative Exorcist uh father Chad ripperger talk about the reason we bless our food is because the demons are in the food and uh yeah they're in the food in particular uh moisture like I mean I don't know where he's getting this but um in the moisture in water like they they are able to inhabit water for some reason this is what I understand from what I heard and it's a couple years ago so don't quote me verbatim on this but that's the impression I got like we have to bless our food because the demons can use food to enter into us and uh that sounds a bit uh extreme yeah so don't forget to bless your food I'm I'm I've struggled I've struggled since my conversion in 2009 I've struggled to say my prayers before and after meals I've really struggled but now I keep a journal I keep a daily spiritual journal and it's helping me to remember sometimes it's like 20 minutes after I've already eaten that I do my before and after prayer spread the meal but yeah well I don't know I mean in Italy they hardly ever prayed for the but they're not very religious anymore were you in Italy yeah I started abroad there oh but yeah they hardly ever like even the more I would say even the Catholic practice and Catholics don't really pray for they yeah I don't know little things like that are important like we've lost sight of it obviously today in our hectic fast-paced world and whatever I mean you're only 23 you said 24. 24 24. so um you don't remember like the old days like when I grew up and how simple and different it was and I mean it was still a dark place you know in this Fallen World obviously but had a bit of a cuter veneer to it sure you know but uh it's we've lost touch with a lot of the simple the simpler things in life like saying grace before meals and stuff like that what's your go-to prayer before and after good that's it uh before I eat yeah yeah well I mean I guess I think it's an Irish prayer that's that's an Irish one I think so yeah ah okay that's the one I say and then after what do you say that's awesome okay you don't pray afterwards a different prayer afterwards no no okay I say we give you thanks a lot for these precious gifts um uh I can't even remember I can't remember what I say I say it every day but I can't remember right now on this one yeah I mean you're not May The Souls of the faithful departed rest in peace amen That's How It Ends okay a little prayer for the yeah faithful departed what's your prayer life like uh day to date because I've got a bunch of prayers that I've memorized that I pray at different points in the day and I'm starting to think that I want to spread them out so I'm not like burning through it like a phone book like like I go through like about uh 15 prayers uh in the morning so I'm thinking I want to slow down and just like break it up over the day uh but what's in your daily roster of prayers do you have a do you have a first prayer of the morning for example uh no not really sort of I sort of get ready for work but before I go to bed after the rosary nice so I mean that kind of constitutes it or else in the mass yeah yeah yeah yeah do you do the sign of the cross frequently during the day I do yeah or I say the Hail Mary uh you know throughout the day maybe depending on what's going on you know if I'm stressed out or whatever do you like the Jesus prayer from the East um can you remind is that like Jesus Christ son of the Living God have mercy on me a sinner that's the version that I pray that's a long slightly longer version Lord Jesus Christ son of the Living God have mercy on me a sinner there's shorter versions but they're all basically that yes it's an Eastern or Eastern Orthodox thing and I love it because it's just sort of like a background Mantra that I just like I'm sort of like using it as an air freshener to keep the demons away from me hopefully uh it doesn't work like my prayers don't work to keep the demons away unless I have a firm resolve to not sin if I if I'm in the mood to sin and I'm just gonna say yes to send a note to Grace then I could pray all I want it doesn't have any effect whatsoever other than increasing my punishments in eternal hell if I die in the state of mortal sin that's the effect it will have but it it's what I've learned in this past two years because I've had a rough two years because of covet and family drama and stuff like that what I've learned is that prayer has to be United with a will that has a firm resolve to love God and to know him and to serve him and to be detached from self and from sin so it's a really interesting it's really interesting you know to to understand the connection between the will and uh sin and Grace and prayer it's like so I've learned uh how empty prayer is when it's not United to a firm resolve of the will yes it's scary it's very very scary because we want to indulge ourselves and say yeah I'm Catholic I'm praying but I'm sinning and you know it just they're incompatible completely incompatible and you have to choose one choose one like Jesus said about the white whitewash tombs with the Jews of his day right yeah it's easy to have the facade it's easy it's nothing is easier nothing is easier than that you know but you have to yeah you have to fight you have to fight you know like saying yeah it's a struggle map I don't want to depress you because you're so young and I'm so old and you're gonna say this this fool I'm 53. this fool didn't get his stuff together but um yeah I mean I'm I've always been a weak person so I'm sure you'll do a lot better than I've been doing but uh yeah it's it's amazing to me it's amazing to me just how weak I am good amazing well I originally motivated you to do this podcast my wife my wife said stop annoying our friends at the parties with all your Catholic Talk go talk to some people who are religious because we don't want to hear it wow I said hey that's a good idea I'll go talk to religious people I'll talk to Protestants Jews Muslims do you have uh like friends that your parents no zero zero real life Catholic friends I mean you know yeah I've got I've got like well you unless you want to be my friend there with number one friend number one I'm just joking but um you know you know I've got a couple of acquaintances that are Catholic but all my Entourage are uh atheists and drug dealers church and mass so don't you see people with say hi and talk to them I see them I see them and you know occasionally we'll chat or whatever but I'm in a situation where I'm married to and I don't want to keep talking about my wife because she doesn't want me to talk about her yeah I've heard I've heard uh it's it's it's an evolving situation I'm starting to have a little bit of Hope and I don't want to talk too much about it I don't want to jinx it but um covet is uh opened her eyes a lot to the reality of Satan so she believes in Satan 100 now that's the first step that's good Next Step believing in God that God is good yeah I mean I don't understand why she wouldn't just do it I mean just from a completely secular perspective it can make your life a lot better yeah so I don't understand like just try it out for a month like what's the big deal like what's the argument about well there's a resentment there's a hatred and an anger toward uh a God that would let children die with cancer and those sorts of things it's the problem of evil it's the problem of evil right you need to you need to really understand that God is good before you worship him like that's just a fact you just have to understand you have to believe it deep down you have to believe that God is good and not just say it in a superficial way you have to really understand that yes all of the evils and all of the injustices are allowed by God for a good good reason you have to really truly believe that and understand that yeah but her view is that they just die and they've lived the meaningless life and that's the end of it it's absurd so yeah I mean I would be more miserable and upset with that sort of year than yeah or alternative which isn't even the right conception yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I agree but it's it's absurd like this is this is what sin does it blinds us it's what original sin did to the whole race and individually we have actual sin and it blinds us it just does it blinds us and I'm speaking from personal experience like I mean I I know How Deep The Rabbit Hole goes in terms of rationalization and self-deception I mean I hope you know yourself well enough to know that you're also in danger of self-deception and that you're a weak man and a sinner and in need of a savior because I mean that's uh there is that spiritual Pride that can come and creep into someone who's squeaky clean like if you're squeaky clean that's kind of like a danger zone like oh oh you might be you might fall victim to Pride you got to be careful right so I'm sure you're aware of that is it something you've thought about um yeah I think so sometimes squeaky clean I mean I don't really do a lot of uh I mean it's at St Paul said to approach your salvation with your traveling you know you can never be successfully certain uh if you're in the State of Grace so is that true oh yeah yeah yeah yeah can you yeah that's that's a dogma of the church but even if you came straight from yeah there's one exception there's one exception that's by a divine revelation like a private Revelation what if you're what if you're just baptized yeah you're certain in that moment yeah but how long does it take to sin it doesn't take long it doesn't take long why not why not after uh confession I'm sorry why is that not applied to a concussion but after a baptism it does or being certain if you're saying you can be certain well I'm pretty certain you know I'm pretty certain when I walk out of the confessional that I honestly told all of my sins to the best of my ability and then I'm in the State of Grace I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure and I'm pretty ecstatic I'm pretty happy when I walk out of the confessional yeah I don't walk out I don't walk out with regrets saying I wish I didn't hide this in I wish you didn't hide that sin I walk out saying thank God for the confessional because I just unburdened myself yet again and let's hope that I don't fall into selfishness and pride and anger and lust or whatever gluttony whatever it is like let's hope that this time well it won't be like all the other times you know so it's it's just it's embarrassing but can you talk a little bit about your very first really good confession that you did where you thought wow I've done it I've done a proper confession and it's uh it's amazing do you have an experience like that um yeah probably in college my version um again it's hard to specifically depend down a point but uh yeah I mean just the feeling of being washed clean I think yeah about that yeah and uh do you go frequently now yeah yeah try to go once a month at least nice I'm overdue uh I had a rough I really had a really rough August and uh since then I've gotten maybe once or twice but uh relative to August it's like I've been a saint compared to August so no hold on now it was September August September yeah it was August yeah it was August so uh yeah I'm gonna go this weekend and uh it's amazing I love it um what's your experience like with penances do you just get X number of Hail Marys and our fathers or do you get anything uh unusual sometimes uh well actually I just came from it today I went to confession please give me a full Rosary so that was pretty wow that was pretty unusual usually it's like three little berries I got the biggest one I got was like a month of prayers I had to recite this uh Saint Gertrude prayer for a month so that was for a general confession that I did for my whole life long I've done two or three General confessions I should go and do one again um is it something you've uh done since you're yeah yeah just to you know like be more sure yeah yeah cover cover yourself and to humble yourself to humble yourself um so uh it's been 48 minutes I do want to get into the atheist I do want to get into the atheist stuff because I know you had some insights you left some comments and stuff like that um and I'm really curious I'm curious to hear your perspective like what did you think like you're probably hearing things and seeing things uh that are worth sharing well first I'm curious do you get how nervous are you when you do stuff like that it depends I mean it depends uh if I'm like calling if I'm the guest like I'm calling in somewhere like or whatever then I'm more nervous if it's just me being the host or not yeah generally speaking not nervous okay uh well I I watched uh the Aaron Rod I've watched all the big names do you see this yeah and I noticed Aaron Rod he just straight up said like I love Satan did he say that yeah like I love the devil yeah did he say that yeah he sure said that yeah he's like I I forget exact contacts but he he's saying like I Hate Everything by religion but the and I didn't give him hell for that no he did he just kind of let him pass and he like laughed I think but I don't want to accuse me I don't want to you know be to served it's been a while it's like two years okay so hold on so so I was very light with him he thought yeah yeah definitely and he's a big evolution guy yeah yeah yeah yeah uh have you like read any Critics on Evolution because I have this really good book that I like I just got this one did I show you yeah you did I'm a young Earth creationist and have been for a while so sure uh have you heard of Jonathan Safari no okay he's a younger creationist and he's smart I think he's processed but he has this website it's called I think but he's extremely intelligent he won the national map competition or National Chess competition no way in New Zealand yeah he could be like 20 people black Goldie playing chess nice she wrote this book refuting Richard Dawkins book called The Greatest Show on Earth and he wrote a book saying the greatest called the greatest hoax honor nice uh Safari yeah and it tears into Dawkins uh pretty good it goes Point by point so I think it's really good so I'd highly recommend it yeah yeah yeah well you know I don't know if you do know but uh my rejection of I never believed in evolution but my thorough rejection of it I was sort of like whatever just didn't sort of confront the issue uh as an atheist didn't didn't buy into it but didn't look into it um but the reason that I properly and explicitly rejected atheism is because of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception you may have heard me say this on my podcast so um I don't feel the need to dig into the Natural Science and I don't have a lot of respect for the intellect of the not the Godless baby killers who are scientists today but um I got this book just because a friend of mine's a geologist and he was he was not buying what what little knowledge I had of geology wasn't uh doing it for him so it wanted to get a couple of little notes and points we could discuss as we play chess we play chess together and I'm about a uh I've got the IQ of like a [ __ ] 12 year old when it comes to chess but I do love it it's fun yeah hey Joy I enjoy the psychology of it too where we can annoy each other when we get the upper hand so it's fun but I can't play online chess it just a bugs it just bugs me I have to be sitting down having a tea or something with my friend in real life it's fun I'm a better experience but uh so you're a young Earth creationist for lack of a better term I would think so yeah I would say it's the most probable explanation but I think there's maybe some sort of reasonable middle ground in terms of the age of the Year okay like 100 000 years or something okay but I I don't think it's a that's Young by the way that is Young by the way yeah I mean like six thousand and a hundred thousand that's a multiple of the same ballpark now it's the same ballpark yeah it's like I don't care I'm not I'm not married to the any date like whatever I only go with like uh 7 000 or whatever it is because that's what the Jews believe that's what they teach and that's what uh traditionally Christianity taught for up until very recently right I think a lot of Orthodox love Jews don't bolt the human creation really I think yeah a lot of them are compatible is with that Revolution yeah really okay okay yeah maybe not like the far Orthodox but yeah yeah because that's a lot of Orthodox like uh I mean he's hardly I don't know what your classify him but just kind of one foot in one foot out here in Montreal I don't know if you know but it's a mainly Hasidic Community they're the most visible Community here ultra-orthodox so I ran into one I'm always sort of in all of them I sort of have a I've always had a sort of reverence or respect for the Jews maybe more than I should but um who knows but I'd rather err on the side of respect I guess but um I do believe that the chosen people not the hasidics not the not the Jews of today but the Jews before the Messiah came right and there's something that Saint Paul said in Romans 11 about the Jews coming back in to the church so I yeah I do give a lot of credence to that yeah so have you talked to them about converting them to um yeah like I I was talking to this very young guy who's probably 22 or whatever at the hardware store and I said hey my friend wants to convert to Judaism like is that possible how would he do that and he's like no he you can but you don't need to look the non-jews can go to heaven too you just need to follow the seven laws of Noah right so uh this is kind of like the Ten Commandments but a watered-down version of The Ten Commandments and uh so he said oh can I ask you a question are you a Christian I said yeah he said well what came first uh well first he asked me what do you think of the Jews do you like the Jews I said yeah I love the troops he smiled and then he said uh let me ask you a question he said which came first Judaism or Christianity and I said Judaism obviously he said well there you go Judaism is the True Religion I said well no because what is the point of Judaism Judaism presupposes Christianity Judaism is all about announcing the coming Messiah that Messiah came it's Jesus Christ Judaism is all about the Messiah and the Messiah came so it's it's like Judaism uh presupposes Christianity right so he didn't have any anything to say um you know in response but I think I planted a little seed like I mean hello like there there is a history by the way there is a history to Judaism you can look at the history of Judaism and you can go to pre-judaism and you can see what what what led to Judaism right what what led to Judaism was sin was the stiff-neck people that weren't doing what their what God had chosen them to do and so he narrowed like the Jews were supposed to be the priesthood to the non-jews and they messed up and they kept God kept shrinking The Remnant that would be the Priestly cast and uh finally the younger brother usurped the elder brother right Christianity usurped Judaism yeah and then they'll be the fullness in the fullness of time that Jews will come in yeah I thought your your talk with wanna want you and I didn't think you really presented an argument to him for him to reply to even go back and forth and I sort of hoping that would be the main conversation point of your talk yeah it's I'm very very I'm a very passive person I go with the guest and uh I mean in this case you're a passive guest so I'm doing a little bit more leading or whatever but um if you were like let's say you were very opinionated and obsessed with one particular topic why would we just let you go with that well yeah I mean you told me good questions but I want to respect that but you know the same thing if you talk to a Jew and said I have questions for you this is my show you know you respect that too so I think that's part of the authority yeah yeah um but I mean can we talk about one of your yeah uh conversation so I saw the one with cognitude Atheist Experience recently yeah that was a waste of time yeah I don't I don't know maybe not I mean but I I've noticed you did this with Matt dual hunting so you presented an argument that like At first cause argument and then you said it's either naturally Supernatural yeah you know and then if his naturally said misrepresent what you're saying but I thought you said that that would have to have a cause so that has to be Supernatural is that right or how did you yeah every every every natural cause is caused there there are no there are no natural there are no uncaused natural causes or uncaused natural effects right yeah exactly um I was thinking about that though and I've been reading at phasers book on the five groups I don't think that that argument can get to many of the Divine attributes uh because a lot of the Divine attributes flow from Divine simplicity so it once you get Divine Simplicity and unity then you can get um God's unchangeable he's outside of time he's existing eternity he's out there for his outside of time then you can also get intelligence if he's uh I get all that I get all of that with my own cost first cause all of that but how if uh how how it feel they can get to Supernatural versus natural well it's it's it's uh the uncaused first cause once we get the atheist to admit I've never got an atheist to admit it but once we could possibly get an atheist to admit it the only the only atheist I've ever seen admitted is me because I was an atheist and then I understood who and what the uncaused first cause was and then I was no longer an atheist I was a monotheist so once you realize that the uh uncaused first cause is not Material it's not spatio temporal it's not composed of Parts what does that mean it means it's it turns not temporal it's Eternal it's not made of Parts it's divine Simplicity that's what I'm saying well because it's you just ask yourself the question okay this this uncaused first cause that we know is not natural We Know It's Supernatural okay now let's think about this Supernatural uncaused first cause is it made up of parts well hello no because obviously it's if it were made up of Parts it would be temporal and it would be natural so saying that it's supernatural is saying that it is absolutely simple we're saying that it's Eternal we're saying all kinds of things just with that one word Supernatural right as like we put these two things together it's the uncaused first cause and it's not natural put those two things together and you get all of the Divine attributes all of them well I don't think you I don't think you can get too the Divine attributes unless you get to the point of essence and existence being the same being identical and I don't you get there if you can get there just by saying it's supernatural I think you have to go well don't you examine that Supernatural first cause and you say is it composed of essence and existence is it composed of us in existence what happened uh my headphones died just sucks sorry I thought you were I bet you're angry with me that I said no no can you hear me okay yeah I can hear you yes okay can you hear me can you hear me yeah yeah so uh when you once you admit there's a supernatural uncaused first cause then you have to ask the question is it composed of essence and existence no it's not because it's Essence in existence but there's no composition because this is what you need to understand about about this this argument is that it contains all the the answers to the metaphysical questions like is it composed no the most fundamental composition is Essence and existence right and the supernatural first uncaused first cause we know it doesn't have any composition because it would need a composer it would need a composer it would need to be caused if it has Essence and existence and its Essence is not existence then it is caused it's not uncaused period so the fact that it's the uncaused first cause and the fact that Supernatural tells you right away it's not composed of essence in existence therefore what does that mean it means that its Essence is existence it's subsistent being period bang but I never get this far with any of the atheists because they just don't want to admit that there is even a supernatural and if they admit there's a supernatural they just say that well it's natural but we just haven't science hasn't put under the microscope yet so we call it Supernatural just as a as a way of saying that we're ignorant because they can't go beyond the the laboratory tools and beyond their stupid Natural Science so they're not able to think about uh think outside of the box okay yeah no I think that'll work because the most fundamental composition is Essence and existence even even Aristotle knew that he was talking about that yeah yeah because I'm reading Pages book blouse like I was saying and the argument goes like from going potential to actual events a feature of the world and there has to be a purely actual actualizer but by definition that's not composed apart so if you're just a positive that there's something Supernatural that started it it seems like you're not committed to what Aristotle is saying but um I think I think it makes sense but especially it's a lot easier to frame to talk about it you know where you're calling in like you're saying but uh yeah it didn't really work I I thought uh the last debate you had been wasn't that fruitful because you didn't really get to the a lot of the Divine attributes like uh but then because I granted you the unfought cost first cause right and then they said okay prove it that it's up your God what did I say well you said that uh the principle of proportionate causality that everything is a fact is in the cause and that's true but I don't think that gets I think Divine Simplicity is really important uh so if you were to say cannot be compulsive Parts because that would have to have its own cause you know something that has parts has a Cause uh so the god of absolute Divine Simplicity but then he also said that like they're all the same God all the monotheists or the same God but that's not I don't think that's right with Divine Simplicity because a lot of Protestants don't believe in Demon Simplicity well because they don't think the Orthodox do either yeah yeah yeah that well I mean if they don't they're just not uh yeah they they're way off base if they don't believe in Divine Simplicity I mean that's a dogmatic truth that we cannot deny I mean there are so-called Christian communities like the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses that are way off about everything and uh you know if you don't have your metaphysics right then uh yeah I do not consider you to be a Christian like if you don't if you just if you don't understand the basic metaphysics of God then you're not even a monotheist right I mean you may be a confused monotheist and you could be educated back into the fullness of monotheism but it's just not that hard like it's just not that complicated that the metaphysics of God like I mean it's a deep mystery obviously that will never comprehend but like to to think as the Mormons do that God is just the best the best and most subtle material being for the time being and he could be surpassed and he could evolve and he could grow any he does change that's what the Mormons teach right so it's like you're not a monotheist sorry you're you're maybe I don't know polytheist or uh Pagan I don't know what what the governments are but they're not they're not they're not monotheists much less Christians yeah nice people nice people hope they go to heaven but you're really way off track yeah because I think that's a big reason why uh you know Catholics we say that Muslims and Jews worship God because they affirm Divine Simplicity Muslim Jews even though they worship God in a wrong way yeah but they they nevertheless believe in the same no physical truth about God so yeah theoretically on paper they do I mean I've met you know many Catholics I bet many Catholics who believe all kind of wacky things like you know not only about metaphysics but about abortion about gay marriage about all kinds of things like just peripheral uh you know what you might consider more peripheral issues but um you know I've met priests who don't believe in the real presence in the Eucharist yeah so welcome to the church militant where Up Is Down and left is right and good is evil and evil is good the other side yeah so we just pray for these people we pray for ourselves obviously I'm a lot more worried about my own salvation than I am about the Wayward priests but that's just because I'm selfish human being and I don't want to burn in hell but um no we pray for these people and we try to surround ourselves with people who have the faith and as I mentioned earlier I don't even have one Catholic in my Entourage not one you know well the only Catholics I have around me are Catholic anti-catholic Catholics who hate the Catholic church I think that's kind of a problem that's a problem yeah it's a big problem I heard here to talk to people out there yeah well it's it's a tricky it's a tricky situation it's a tricky situation because I'm married to an anti-catholic woman so like I mean I can foster a Catholic friendship to a certain extent but it's just like there's a big no-go Zone like don't come within 100 meters of my wife or you're gonna get your head chopped off kind of thing um she's violently anti-catholic so uh it's like I don't want to bring people in here she's raised Greek Orthodox um so but I don't want to talk about her because like she's under and she's on a journey and I'm very excited about how she's she's turned she's undergone one conversion already since covet started which is from de facto default libtard to hardcore right wing Ultra conservative so that's like a major change sure and I'm not saying it's good because I don't like the right any more than I like the left but it's just at least it's a change and it's uh it's uh it's an Awakening of sorts like hey there's good and evil and I'm on the side of good it's like it's really exciting so I don't I don't want to jinx her journey and I don't know where it's going to go and I've got people praying for her and I've got online friends who are Catholic and we communicate by email and stuff like that yeah pray for each other and um yeah it would be nice one day to have a good company like in real life that would be good but I don't see it happening I don't really don't see it happening yeah do you see good fruits coming from your Apostle and we called her yeah yeah I've I've been delighted by some of the trajectories of some of the people that I've talked to and you know to be involved in a small way and to be part of that journey is fun you know and I don't wanna take credit for anything obviously but to be part of the process and to be part of a conversation and to be part of you know uh uh to I you know I do believe I've Been instrumental in a small very very small way uh in God's grace so uh and I'll find out in heaven like how the little tiny seeds uh actually God used God used those seeds yeah and uh I don't I don't worry about being a bad uh teacher because I don't I don't see myself as a teacher at all you know not teaching just just uh Slice of Life like hey proclaiming some very basic truths and always pointing always pointing people to Christ in this church always pointing people to Christ Church my favorite answer to any anti-catholic jab is what does the church teach about that it's just like so easy it's true it's just so easy and it's so fun to just say hey well oh you claim that the church does this and that the other thing there were a bunch of pedophiles and whatever well what does the church teach oh you don't know oh do you do you have one index finger and a keyboard because if you have one index finger and a keyboard you can find out the answer in 0.01 seconds are you interested to learn what the church teaches because you can find out and you said yourself early in this interview it's pretty easy to Google the church teaches it's easy so that's why I don't worry about the the burden of being a bad teacher I'm not a teacher I just say what does the church teach does it say does it say that pedophilia is good and we should all be pedophiles and that we should all be corrupt uh money hungry priests and Bishops that are just after power and whatever is that what the church teaches no it doesn't so I mean you're you're and all the pope bashing that I put up with and whatever it's like you know it's just really easy to diffuse that by asking what the church teaches period what do you think what do you make of Pope Francis General antagonism towards him if with everybody especially people my age but I think that really the truth that's always the future of the church and you know there's a thing called future Church it's a it's a left-wing Catholic movement that wants to get the church up to date with lgbtq agenda well I know that's just a lie that's just a lie but I'm saying like that uh emphasis of uh his teaching you know his his ministry I think is uh in a lot of ways the future but I'm not saying like everything so you gotta uh always flush this out you know but I think that is you know Benedict was like kind of a conservative view on reading of Vatican II I think and then uh Francis is a little more like fully accepting of it and not really talking about the controversies that come up from the left especially um and I think that's where and I think he's been like the shifts been slowly moving to the left you know over but you have a lot of the centers too like the Germans so I think then but I think there'll be some convergence there maybe but with uh Francis I think the next folk will maybe be a little more conservative because I don't think they want I think they've just been seeing so much so many attacks you know and I don't want the traditional movement to get much more right right yeah and it's getting fueled yeah it's getting fueled by the apparent uh you know yeah because I I personally am of the opinion you know um that the Pope's playing 5D chess I know it sounds silly but I think he's a bit mischievous and he likes to play around with the freedom he has in Jesus Christ and he likes to be ambiguous on purpose to annoy people I think he I think he does that's my opinion I could be wrong uh uh I actually had a couple of dreams about Pope Francis I do I do like the man I do love the man and I do believe that God appointed him and just like I believe that Vatican II is a holy ecumenical council and uh you know I think this is part of the humility that is required of the Catholic to say oh this is this is strange like look at this Pope look at this Council look at what's happening it seems very strange and it's easy to rash judge the pope especially Pope Francis it's easy to rash judge the council and the council fathers and to turn it into a political uh sporting match and I prefer to go to the mystical Dimension where God Almighty appointed this man to be Pope is it a punishment like a lot of my rad tread or traditional uh conservative Catholic friends who suggested that it's a punishment God is giving us Pope Francis as a punishment it might be partially a punishment yes it might be partially a punishment but it's also partially a blessing with a very very solid a set of Catholic lessons to be learned by the lay faithful and those who are struggling to be part of the lay faithful there are people that have actually left the church because of Pope Francis and Saint Thomas Aquinas famously said that it's a sin to be scandalized in any way it's a sin to be to allow yourself to be scandalized at all for any reason is a sin boom you don't have an excuse when you're scandalized you don't have an excuse it's just a lack of faith it's a lack of faith period yeah that's true and he also I know Thompson also said that it's more important to be humble than it is even correct uh you said that so you have so many people who are they're on the opposite it's uh extremely humble who are saying they're Catholic you know especially online you can name names if you are I'm just kidding well I don't know you just did it The Usual Suspects Dr Taylor Marshall I got nothing against the guy I think he's just he's just wrong he's just like uh he's wrong about a lot of stuff he's one of the big popular figures on that the Trad side you watch a lot of his stuff I have yeah I didn't really recently I wish him well I don't enjoy watching him obviously but I wish him well I've had a couple I've had one sort of interaction with him in the comment section on one of his videos and it didn't go too well I was defending Pope Francis and he didn't want to hear about that he should invite him on yeah yeah I did yeah of course I invite everyone I invite absolutely everyone you saw as soon as you put a comment on my thing I just invited you three times in a row yeah and I chased you down till you finally got your pretty face on the screen here thank you so what else do you want to talk about you uh it sounds like you you had a couple of criticisms about how soft and gentle I am with these yeah these you should be reprobate atheists well I think like though I I don't think that also I want to talk about Grandma happy uh there's a couple things you let him slide on oh okay but on the in the moment it's a little difficult so I have to gotta pick and choose your bones but you gave the ball experiment uh if we're you said because he's just a naturalist and our naturalist explanation we're just matter nothing else so you could theoretically come back alive uh because we're just yeah it's configurations of atoms um and then you gave the example of the Clone yeah if you were to walk in the duplicator and he said well we're all uh you know all history yeah we have different histories but uh that's explained by you know your memories and uh the material in you uh under his worldview so the only thing that I could think of that this view could or his objection could be raised is if you walk into a room and there's a left replicator and someone comes up and then the person comes on the right he both stepped out he said okay I know I'm the real person because I walked on the left and you know you came on the right somewhere real person but if you were in a like a dark room and that was somehow uh you know you were able to get past that or like spun it around so you could be able to tell then there's no way and I think you should have thrust a little harder but I know there's always um for improvements yeah yeah well the other thing is you know I leave it as an exercise to The Listener to come up with the the best gotcha moments that I missed because really it is it is not about winning it's not about like getting every gotcha or whatever it's like uh the fact that you're left hanging like oh he should have said this and he should have said that I mean obviously I have a million things going through my head as soon as I say goodbye and I hang up and I think why didn't I say this why didn't I say that always and I'm talking about in real life like talking with family and friends it's the same thing oh why didn't I say this why didn't I say that and I had a good comeback and now I have an excellent comeback for that Zinger that they unfurled on me that's always just the way it is you know but part of the exercise of putting all this nonsense onto uh video on the YouTube is or just audio even is so that people can be stimulated by it and uh it just goes into your heart and soul and you can chew and digest uh the ideas and no matter how absurd and how wrong I am or my guest is it's gonna stir something in you because you love the truth and you're gonna with God's grace you're gonna discover some truth just by cogitating and chewing on the conundrums or the ideas that are floated out there right yeah I just wanted to ask you because uh you mentioned that if you're an atheist you're hard to determinist you said that a few times and but the atheist who object saying that according to Quantum reality but you said it's just a matter of indeterminacy it's not that I don't believe in it I don't even believe in indeterminacy myself I've never really looked into it so can you explain it to me what's indeterminacy well I thought it was between indeterminacy and we just can't know it's a matter of our inability like it's truly determined under their view but it's just that we can't tell success where it's indeterminate relative to us I see okay as opposed to truly random where it's not impossible to determine so yeah well it all boils down it all boils down to the principle of causality like are there some uncaused effects out there I don't think so but they they seem to want to say that they're right they want to hide behind the the mysteries of the quantum world and say well hey there's some real Randomness in there and uh no there isn't sorry like I mean uh I talked with Tom jump recently and he's all adamant about it yeah I saw that he's like that was that was a lame interview too but um yeah I saw a debate recently with him in an orthodox fellow Oh I thought he did I thought Tom did really poor yeah and he yeah a lot of atheists really don't understand they should read a phaser because they truly don't understand anything about what the fetus is claiming and divine Simplicity is like the baby key to understanding it all because then you can get all of the fine attributes have you read scotus at all in his treatment of the uh I'm not but he's a little more liberal so to speak like he does he affirm there's some distinctions and God virtual distinctions you need to talk to uh did you listen to my interview of uh Gideon Lazar hi Daniel yeah he he hinted at some of the um almost like that third man problem in Plato I don't know if you're familiar with Plato's Third Man problem where you've got a form and then you've got a form of the Forum and a form of the form of the form of the form so uh Byzantine scotus was suggesting that the uh that blessed jonta and scotus uh posits forms of forms in multiple forms within the human uh like as the the four the the soul the human soul is is the form of the human body that's a dogma of the church and uh so the to Mystic view is that there's one form and this statistic view is that there are multiple forms that it's a composite form and I would just intuitively be repulsed by skoda's idea there um but I think uh if you talk to Gideon Lazar about it he'll he'll put us at ease by reassuring us that these are not real distinctions they're virtual distinctions or something like that and there's a lot of that there's a lot of that um there's a lot of there are a lot of these nuanced distinctions uh in theology uh which elude me and I can't grasp what the Trinity is kind of hard to grasp but yeah it's not a real distinction because it's the essence of God is that his father son the Holy Spirit I think the agreement I think the Greek Orthodox way the language that they use is clearer than in the West in the West we say three persons but in the East they'll say three uh uh what is it they use a different word a more technical word which which is easier to digest and easier to accept um but uh yeah it's very hairy stuff and uh well well beyond my ability to even play with a lot of these ideas just because it just like I can't even get off the ground with them you know but um you know we're not supposed to to dabble in things that are beyond our kin anyway so yeah it's good it's good to be humble about it and just to know that you know that was a big objection for me coming into my um Christianity was the Trinity obviously the Incarnation but um it takes humility to uh accept things that we don't comprehend and I'm very very very very happy with my choice to uh to have taken the leap of faith and it is a leap of faith uh by the way into Christianity it's not it's not it's not a fact that could be known exclusively by the natural light of reason we need Faith even the existence of God although it can be known without faith we have to have faith that's that's the funny thing there are two dogmas that seem to be at odds with each other we can know the existence of God without faith and we have to uh have faith also in the existence of God so we have to have uh even though it can be known by reason that is not enough that knowledge by reason is not enough and we need to have uh a faith-based understanding also of the existence of God because there are layers of uh there's so many dogmas that depend on knowledge that we cannot access by pure reason that's just the way it is that's just the way it is although there have been philosophers that wanted to ground all of our knowledge in pure reason it's impossible because of because of the nature of God and the the chasm between his his reality and our relative being there's no choice so you know there is that bridge between the finite creature and the infinite Creator and that bridge is the god man Jesus Christ I love I love Christianity for many reasons was that's one of the intellectual reasons why I love Christianity so much is because we have the bridge between me a little creature and God Almighty like I don't know how the Muslims and the Jews live without that I just don't know how they can live without that like how do you how do you feel at home with God when there's no bridge between a bridge over that chasm it's just so overwhelming it's such a comfort and it's such a comfort having the Saints and uh it's just a reinforcement of that that notion that the Catholic notion that heaven is our home God is our father I mean how did the Jews have that how did the Muslims have that I don't think they have that you know yeah yeah I heard also the the um Trinity is sort of derived or is deduced somehow through Divine Simplicity because he has since meeting existence and the same thing as the father having the same nature right as the sun and through that the Holy Spirit comes about well you've heard you've heard I think you've heard me say it probably but you've heard what Saint Augustine said about the Trinity right by way of analogy that uh you as a creature you exist um you know that exists and you love the fact that you exist in the fact that you know that you exist so that's the Trinity right there it's like it's the being it's the knowing it's the loving that's it that's how we and that's exactly how the church describes the three persons right there's an attribution to God the Father which is being and uh creating and then we have the attribution to the son with the wisdom he's wisdom incarnate and then we have the attribution of the holy spirit being that love that they share so uh I mean I understand that these are merely attributions uh and it's in a in a certain sense it's a poetic way of coloring these persons because they're identical in their nature but I find it very useful and I find it very comforting and I know for a fact that I am and that I know that I am and that I love that I am and I know that ultimately you know there is a Unity among all the transcendentals and to say otherwise it's completely absurd like I like I've said many times in my podcast one especially when I'm speaking to atheists it's just ridiculous to think that we can approach love while leaving Justice in the rear view mirror and then change directions and go oh I'm going to pursue health and like we're leaving Beauty behind us no no if you're pursuing the good you're pursuing the good and so this is where uh the neoplatonists uh I think got it right when they really emphasized that the Oneness and the unity oh God they were wrong about a few important things obviously but I like that I am I do tend towards monism and that sort of Eastern philosophical approach to Ultimate Reality where there's only God and the rest is illusion I do symbolize very strongly with that because I've always known not always because there's a solipsist for a short time but I've usually known that I'm nothing I'm intuited that I nothing [Music] so how can you love someone as a synopsis well you can't how do you get married I wasn't America I wasn't a solipsistent when I got married but I may as well have been because it's always a solipsist light meaning that just the sort of de facto solipsist living for myself I still am today like just living for myself what's in it for me is there some pleasure over there oh is there pain over there or no you know avoid pain seek pleasure that's the basic solid says light sure I'm still stuck in that so God help me but yeah we're we are absurd creatures when we're not Saints we are completely absurd creatures self-contradictory miserable miserable sinner cruel the cruel slavery of the devil why do we love the cruel slavery of the devil why do we love it it's sick yeah but we're on a voyage we're on a voyage I I blame uh Satan and Eve and I guess Adam and yeah have you read a um St Francis de Sales yeah I love it love it look at the controversy I just downloaded that one I've read other stuff but I just downloaded that one on the recommendation of uh paleocrat Jeremy uh Jeremy what's his name banister Jeremiah say his name paleo craft do you know the guy no if you check my channel but yeah you listen to his interview no not the whole thing just anyway that was from 2019 but uh he's uh he's well known now I don't know about at the time I know he studied in semi or seminary but in theology school or whatever he went to he studied uh presuppositionalism in a Protestant uh school and now he's a Catholic and now he's championing presuppositionalism from a Catholic perspective um which is funny because I always get I always get accused of being a precept when I go on The Atheist Experience uh comment section always and I'm the opposite of a presuppositionalist yeah but I think like in general I think most of your focus should be towards atheists yeah you know when I was like you I mean your channel is called Catholic verses so let's get some more verses happening but in um in the book at Fraser he talks about how the goal of this book is to can you show me the cover of the book sure yeah it's backwards uh it's not backwards for me but it's called the fire game five proofs of the existence of God okay cool yeah but in the introduction he says that his goal is to get back to the medieval conversation where it's not about atheist versus atheists but it's about Jews versus Muslims versus um Christians Catholics for instance but the a big reason is because Divine Simplicity has been lost that's a huge thing it goes up in the book and it's of enormous value so I think like from a pre-suppositionalist perspective I don't understand why you would argue presuppositionalists um but still affirm Divine Simplicity doesn't make any sense to me because you can reason to Divine simplicity so why why would you presuppose what would you say you're supposing it uh uh I I see okay okay yeah we've got God God gave us reason why don't we use it yeah foreign yeah that's a good point yeah I don't really understand uh the Allure or the attraction of presuppositionalism I don't really understand what that looks like or whatever um I've reached out to uh paleocrat to see if he could chat to me about it but he's too popular and he's too big and famous now to talk to a little person like me and he said on his uh one I watched one of his things and he said he people shouldn't mix like when someone has X number of subscribers or viewers or whatever they should never talk with anyone that has substantially fewer so I've got like what 500 subscribers or 700 whatever it is so it's like I don't qualify to be his friend hmm if I understood yeah I mean if I were to have a channel I would just be calling the uh atheists you know talking to them but um like decent terms but I don't because I've seen some debates like especially with Bill Hunty where he's just completely unfair and uh like he tries to control the conversation did you enjoy it did you enjoy it when I called into it I did yeah I mean I thought you did pretty well for quite a long time yeah but like I'm saying he's he's really aggressive not very yeah he's really aggressive and not a very reasonable person like he doesn't understand them you know why he hung up on me right uh no I I forgot because he asked me like uh and let's I forget what the question was but my answer was so like he said something like how do you know if a true if a religion is uh true or something like that and I said well if they worship the same God that I do right like the unconscious first cause or whatever and he hung up like oh how arrogant they have to leave in your God why can't they believe in some other God or whatever it's like so it's like it's again it boils down to that that metaphysical understanding that there's one and only one God like if there's a second candidate then either it's identical with God in which case they're not two but one this is what Santa Gustin says or there's some difference meaning they're one of the candidates lacking some attribute and so it's not God period it's that easy so once you grasp the metaphysical definition of God it's really not that hard and that's how I know if if someone's a monotheist or not right and if if you believe in a material material God or if you believe in a changeable God or whatever it's like that's nice you're probably a nice person I wish you well but like you just don't understand like you just you don't get it and hopefully God will Enlighten you and you could probably still go to heaven not understanding metaphysics sure right like I don't I don't think I'm gonna go to heaven because I have some rudimentary understanding of the metaphysical arguments of what God is yeah that's not going to get me to Heaven period if I thought that would get me to Heaven I'd just be like celebrating right now and I wouldn't be I would not be working out my salvation with fear and trembling yeah but uh I'm pretty sure St Paul knew all the right answers to the metaphysical questions about God and he was working out his cell patient with fear and trembling that's what we have to do yeah well I don't know if you fully explained the quantum your opinion yeah yeah so I don't I I believe that every natural event that which includes causes and effects every natural event is caused right period so uh every computer every cell phone every device that we use cannot happen without the quantum level science and technology that we have discovered and are using to make these Tran really microscopic transistors and components right okay and I worked I studied physics I worked in uh quantum physics uh I've worked also in astrophysics but we're talking about quantum physics here and I know for a fact that Quantum science is science it's not magic it's it's science it's a hundred percent predictable a hundred percent of the time 100 of the time it's predictable 100 of the time does that mean I can zoom in on each uh you know elementary particle and know its velocity and its momentum simultaneously its position and momentum no I can't okay big [ __ ] excuse my language big deal so uh I learned my bad language from My Wife by the way I swear it's like a truck driver but um forgive me but uh science is science and that includes Quantum science and uh it's very predictable and yes we do use statistical methods when we're doing our analysis and we're doing our uh you know wave equations and all sorts of things yeah we do a statistical analysis yes that's fine but each and every time that wave equation is being fulfilled perfectly like it's it's it never fails it never gives us a different shape of a waveform it's always the exact same shape how it gets filled in over time we can't predict we can't predict how that population is going to grow into that curve but we know with certainty that given enough samples it will fulfill the Curve that's that's the way it is and uh it's 100 predictable so the the notion that there's some fundamental Randomness is uh completely untenable there's no basis for that even if even if 99.9 of the physicist believes they believe today in some fundamental Randomness or some fundamental uncertainty principle or indeterminacy or whatever they're just wrong sorry they're wrong yes I'm a little dweebie [ __ ] uh and uh what do I know but I know that they're wrong you know it's not that I'm 90 sure that they're wrong I'm 100 sure that 99 of the physicists today are wrong about indeterminacy about Randomness period they're wrong yeah just like they're wrong about evolution like yeah have you yeah exactly have you heard of uh Wolfgang Smith yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we read his book I haven't read it I just watched that I just watched uh a friend sent me uh a Catholic friend down in the state sent me uh a link to uh vimeo video and I watched it on his channel you remember the name of the documentary I think it was the second in the series vertical principle of vertical causality or something like that yeah very good yeah I enjoyed it he gave me hope he gave me hope for the Natural Sciences that there are still people able to think clearly in Natural Sciences because I thought they were all dead and gone and it's just a bunch of politicians and bureaucrats looking for grant money today yeah what are you studying by the way at college or university no I'm not in college I work what did you study Finance okay so there's no funny business with Finance right it's just no not really not working it's all pretty solid Financial models yeah a lot of Statistics analysis uh no I mean statistics uh I mean Excel has a lot of functions so it's not like math heavy that's what you mean but you know a lot of excel modeling explanation [Music] you enjoy it yeah most part yeah so do you understand now my perspective about uh the quantum world yeah no I do I mean are you well read on it though can I take your word for it no no I'm not well read I haven't read anything in years I've been wanting to read Wolfgang Smith's book because it's called the end of quantum reality that's the cool I like that stuff title to it yeah I've been consistently ignoring Natural Science for a long long time when like basically my My First Love was philosophy and naively I thought when I was studying physics at University I naively thought they're going to teach me about first principles Ultimate Reality metaphysics that's what I thought because that's what they used to teach in the you know in the beginning in the when the universities were founded by Catholics uh you know you've got a foundation in metaphysics and uh you were examining reality and now it's like they're pumping out worker drones for their stupid Industries it's like pathetic and it's I'm not I'm not saying that there aren't talented people doing great things in medicine and whatever and building safe Bridges and it's all good stuff okay it just doesn't excite me you know what I'm excited about is ultimately God and uh understanding Creation in relation to God I didn't know that when I was an atheist studying physics I was just I just thought I was interested in Ultimate Reality I didn't know that Ultimate Reality was grounded in and all good God yeah definitely this is a good book too it's a I got this at the Catholic bookstore Padre Pio experience wow it's like uh two paragraphs of his letters he writes too various people through his life sisters it's good cool I'm gonna show you my recent purchases of books oh since we're showing off our books here sure uh can you see that yeah okay it's about the demons because the demons really want my soul and they're not shy to uh make that fact plain okay introduction too yep you know him yeah I just watched a few videos yeah uh I think it's important just because I got mental health issues in my family and uh pretty sure I'm sick in the head myself so yeah this one is uh uh you have Dr Aaron carriati's book no it's called Uh the Catholic approach to depression he's a psychiatrist okay down in California but he he's kind of resisted the coconut ah tyranny in California so that's shh well you know I mean there's a fine line of where that is obviously we'll change the subject we'll change the subject whether I was going to lose my channel so uh we'll talk off the Record about that can you see that what that says yes what's the subtitle uh social abuse in the Catholic Church yeah this one was recommended to me by uh not personally but I saw a video where uh one of my favorite conservative Catholic priests was talking about it how it changed his life and he he made a prayer to be a victim soul and then he got a brain tumor you might know who I'm talking about I wish I could remember his name nice good looking young priest and he got a brain tumor as a result of his prayer to be a victim soul for the victims of sexual abuse in the Catholic church so he said it really moved him and it was very powerful experience for him as a young priest and so I mean he's conservative and uh he's you know what should I say he's not shy of the issue of pedophilia and homosexuality and all kinds of other sexual perversion among the clergy in the Catholic Church so it's hard pill to swallow but we have to admit that there are weak men in the priesthood and we have to admit that there are also wolves in sheep's clothing I'm interested to learn what the ratio is how many of the perverts in the priesthood are just weak and are repentant and how many are delighting in it because they just want to take down Christ in his church what's the what's the ratio there what's your guess I think it's probably very low in the ladder okay good I think mostly it's just weakness but I don't think I mean personally I've met a lot of priests and I would be really surprised if more than 10 percent I mean that's kind of high but uh have any history of sexual misconduct you're solving me to the any vein of that yeah so but I don't know it's pure speculation God only knows you could just ask every priest you meet yeah okay father nice to meet you so have you ever done yeah x y and Zed there's that purity test that people take at universities and colleges around the world like security test like have you ever done this kinky thing have you ever done that kinky thing it's like trying to uh seduce innocent young students into deeper and darker levels of perversion you haven't seen that floating around your University um yeah but I didn't really expose myself for that that's good yeah so yeah any other any other must go to topics before we raise here you can always come back another time if you think of other uh things to chit chat about it's nice chatting with you but from from the videos that you did watch uh and you had some comments you made it you made a controversial comment that all atheists are going to hell do you want to explain well I think I said bees eat this ah these particular ones these types but I think I was talking to uh I was referring to the Opie there because I think you kind of had them cornered in a way with the replicator because you're just one point off if you and you didn't push it enough because it's a material what would you have done the history you've probably lied for something made something up and I think obviously challenges that he knows yeah I mean he knows what deep down in his soul what is going on you would think that the most atheists know that God is real and well I'm just talking about lying like I'm not specific example like he's going to provide for life but uh I do think like there's intuition you know everybody has and he I mean you could probably trick yourself you know get past it at some point but it's probably long past that but um so what uh what hope do you have for the unrepentant atheist you hope for a deathbed conversion or are you just happy to see them float off to hell like they deserve or whatever of course not happy uh um well I think a lot of people um can hope that their conversion I think a lot of people do as they go through life especially to age so continue first for that but I think a lot of people have heart and hearts and that's a difficult time yeah yeah yeah there's a lot of talk of that in the Old Testament the hardness of heart uh another time I'll have you back we'll talk about the Bible that's something that's very fascinating do you study the Bible in a particular way other than the readings of the mass so do you study the Bible at all uh somewhat I mean I have a rudimentary in private deeper understanding than I do but you'd have to be more I have a few books on it uh do you know who Raymond Brown is yeah yeah so I've been going through his book recently he's um and uh he's controversial I know but I think I think he's I mean I've uh terrible view too oh okay okay okay Raymond Brown I'm thinking I'm thinking of another Brown that was uh way out there yeah Dan Brown is that right I'm not sure okay I'm thinking of a different guy I think okay I'm talking about the actual Bible itself like do you what is your relationship with the Bible in terms of reading it directly ah yeah I don't have a I don't do that very much no do that yeah something yeah like where do I go you've never read the entirety of them no I've never done that before the Old Testament you've never read the Old Testament in its entirety I recommend I recommend it and I recommend that you listen to it on audiobook you can buy an audio Bible you can find one probably for free uh and then just take your time listen half an hour a day for whatever two or three months and you'll be done the whole all 73 books and I used to listen to the entire Bible once a month on audio uh that's about an hour and a half a day of listening to the Bible five days a week um so I did that for a couple of months but uh I've since stopped because I got a cop stopped me on my bicycle said you can't wear headphones and gave me a big ticket so ever since then I haven't been using my headphones on my bicycle when I came out to and from work but uh no I highly recommend uh getting familiar with the Bible even though it's very mysterious and it can be off-putting and even though we don't have the actual Bible we just have you know cobbled together semblance of the Bible sure yeah but uh so we'll definitely talk again nice to see you yeah thanks a lot for Having the courage to come on and talk with a stranger about your faith yeah you should uh I would hope you have more atheist encounters yeah I got that message loud and clear from you okay next step is send me the atheists and I'll interview them because you know you know one thing you know about me I want to invite people on my show and you saw how I had to work to get you on right so it's not like I'm just lazy like I actually invite a lot of people and I hound them and I hound them some more and then some of them have the courage to come on and talk it's not only courage it's like why should I bother talking to this dweebie Canadian guy like what why I don't owe him anything right so it's not just that you need courage you also need to have some sort of interest in like okay I'm gonna talk to this uh little nobody loser up in Canada about my faith but and especially if you're an atheist like I mean the the attraction for the atheist is like yeah I'm gonna dominate this guy with my arguments and I'm gonna put him in his place and I'm gonna show him how stupid his faith is and he believes in talking snakes and I have science and sure that's why they're motivated to talk to me and I was very surprised that Aaron raw came on and talked to me and I do I've said many times he's my probably one of my favorite guests I've ever had on just because I think he's so sweet and lovable but hopefully he's not going to hell I'm going to look up that quote where he said where he said that he said that he likes the devil I'm gonna look that up yeah now it's in there I know it's in there send me the time step okay if you were to talk to him what would you say what would you do differently by pressing more on his evolutionary views and then his criticisms of our faith because their misconceptions probably almost entirely did you see did you see it yeah and then and then I would push the evidence for God's existence the arguments okay did you ever think about getting your own podcast that would be pretty cool yeah I don't really know I don't know it seems like not sure like I said I think it might just be better to stay off okay the internet in a lot of ways I'm not sure yeah yeah yeah you're probably right you're probably right but if you do get a chance to listen to my uh reaction to Erin I'll send you the link afterwards but it's pretty funny because I I make fun of him for the way that he explains biogenesis how life came from non-life like step one borrow some organelles from a living bacteria it's not Step One is step one of creating life from non-life is to find a living creature and borrow some organelles from it yeah that's like that's that's crazy it's absolutely mind-boggling like how do they How do they preach their religion with a straight face it's absolutely ridiculous and what about uh Before I Let You Go what about your uh sibling situation do you have a lot of siblings uh no not a lot I'm a couple are they Catholic Yeah Yeah well yeah yeah cool you're not considered like a freak because you're so into it uh no no even among your friends like are your friends all on the same page with you yeah really yeah wow I mean I mostly just have Catholic friends wow I mean cool like I mean you don't need a lot of friends but yeah yeah yeah deaf friends who are pretty much all Catholic yeah wow very cool I'm jealous I'm allowed to be jealous because jealousy is a good thing it's where I want what you have envies where I don't want you to have the good thing that you have but I do I do want you to have it I want you to continue on there yeah I'm in Milwaukee and there's a lot of uh Catholic the only adults here you know that you know the history of Quebec it's very Catholic in its roots and then they had a revolution a quiet Revolution and they got rid of the church which they say it was corrupt and maybe it was um and then it's just gone totally secular to the point where they want to Outlaw religious Garb and can't show across really yeah it's bad it's bad it's really bad in Canada and it's the worst probably in Quebec so if you're wondering why I don't have a lot of Catholic friends that's why I don't have any really because like I mean am I going to walk up to the 85 year old woman at church and say hey I want to be your best friend and hang out with you like no yeah you know if there aren't a lot of young people I'm not young anyway myself but uh you know what I mean it's like yeah it's a weird situation but I mean it's super weird because I mean what percent of the people believe in God would you say you go back at church no I'm saying I'm saying it in Quebec probably most of them so what do they how do they express their religion it's just a lot of them a lot of the Catholics that I meet they say I believe in God and I'm a Catholic but I don't believe in the church I don't believe in the priests I don't believe I don't trust the priests I don't believe in the Pope I don't think we need a pope but I'm a Catholic and that just doesn't add up right but they don't know that it doesn't add up because they're not well catechized as you can well imagine so uh you know yeah I'm kind of like I love God and I pray and whatever but I don't go to church I don't go to mass because basically they're jaded but like I said it's a sin to be scandalized for any reason it's a sin yeah now is it a venial sin because they don't know any better because you need you need to have full knowledge give full consent and it needs to be grave matter in order for it to be a damnable grave sin so I doubt they have that I really highly doubt that they have the knowledge you know yeah but maybe another sense it's hard to it's hard to know it's like they say it's like they say in Vatican II about the Protestants or what a lot of popes have said recently it's like we can't blame the Protestant who's born a Protestant into a Protestant family like it's not the same thing as Martin Luther like he knew I think Martin Luther knew what he was doing and that was just evil right yeah that would be a fun topic to discuss with you also protestantism we'll have to do that another time but do you have Protestant acquaintances and family uh yeah I do handful but um yeah I mean we've never really gone into it just because it's nothing I don't it's a non-issue yeah it's it's been something that hasn't come off I've never brought him out because uh more so just acquaintances yeah you know I don't wanna you don't stir the pot for no reason yeah and you're happy that they love Jesus and okay okay you have to be delicate you have to pick your battles too you have to pick your bottles and yeah so we'll talk again soon my friend thanks for taking the time and as you know as you may know I do enroll all my guests in the Perpetual Mass league so you're getting the infinite races of the mass all day every day till the end of time professional math yeah you don't know about that there's a mass being said for you and your family every day until the end of time so even if you end up in purgatory God forbid you'll be getting the benefits of the mass said how do you how do you enroll me I'll send you the link okay you can do it at your local Parish probably you could do it at chapels like if there's a dedicated Shrine like I've bought uh I shouldn't say bought I've enrolled people with a donation because you're not buying a mask but you uh you enroll people with a donation and uh I mean I've done this for over uh well over 200 people and uh I've even enrolled the I have a Perpetual Mass that's being said for the holy souls in purgatory every day there's a mass being said for the souls of purgatory every day all right so I'm benefiting from that not to be selfish again as usual but it is nice to know that there's a spiritual benefit to me that accrues to me provided I'm in the State of Grace uh for all these masses that are being said it's a small it's a small token obviously right but it is significant and uh I highly recommend it and I'll send you the link yeah appreciate it David all right my friend yeah so God bless you plea please remember me and mine in your prayers uh if not explicitly then just you know ask our lady to add me and mine to your implicit intentions every day and then it's done you know and I'll be in your uh I'll be in your prayers every day so I'd appreciate that and you're going to be in my prayers thank you definitely appreciate that and I look forward to seeing your Snappy comments in the comment section and uh we'll have you back again okay have a good evening my friend thank you God bless you bye