meda as you know my name is David I'm the creator and host of CBS in this episode of Mehta I am going to offer a few responses to Kent Hovind I recently interviewed Kent Hovind and he said a lot of things that were contrary to the teaching of the church and I've had a couple of people recommend that I go into a little bit more depth to respond and to defend the teachings of the church and so I'll focus in this episode only on the Catholic versus Protestant content and I'll leave aside all of a question about special creation Genesis and all that good stuff there are two schools of thought among Christians one is that you can lose your salvation and the other is that you cannot possibly lose your salvation I would be in the second category of course the church teaches that we can lose our salvation and holy scripture and backs this teaching up but the underlying issue really is one which has been resolved but which many people haven't bothered to check out which is the hairy issue of faith versus works where the caricature is that Protestants say faith alone and Catholics say faith and works so this is the underlying issue it has to do with justification it has to do with sanctification what do these words mean for the Protestants what do these words mean for the Catholic Church and if you take the time to read the documents of the Council of Trent you'll see that there is no possibility of working toward the grace of justification we cannot do it of our own power it's all Grace and we merely say yes by God's grace we say yes to God's grace and we begin to cooperate and so the Catholic point of view of justification is an ongoing dance it's a cooperation we are a dance partner with God Almighty he is a perfect dance and he's elegant and graceful and gentle and humble and kind and we are arrogant proud rebellious and sinful and we step on God's toes constantly but it is a dance nonetheless God is Dancing with us he's allowing us to cooperate with his Grace's and so for the Catholic justification is not a one-time event as it is seen by most Protestants whereby they are justified and along with that justification comes a sort of instantaneous sanctification they've been forgiven once saved always saved and so on and so forth everything flows from that initial conversion experience giving their lives to Jesus Christ well we Catholics give our lives to Jesus Christ - and we - come to this conversion by unmerited grace even Mary had her conversion by unmerited grace she had prevenient grace it's a special case of grace but even Mary the mother of God who gave her flesh to God's son even she did not merit the graces of conversion and the graces to cooperate so perfectly with God there's only two religions in the whole world and that's Cain and Abel from the gardener from Genesis 4 Cain brought his fruit and vegetables and said God look what I did for you and God would not take it Abel brought a lamb and said God would you take this substitute in my place and God accepted it so most religions and I would certainly put the Catholics in this category most religions are trying very hard to please God with their works and they think that salvation is something that can be earned it's just exactly what Cain did God look what I did for you I brought all this fruit and vegetables I worked hard and they really are trying hard it makes some good neighbors I like living next to those folks they probably won't steal from you cuz they'll go to hell but no salvation is completely a gift of God it's by grace that we're saved it's by faith Ephesians 2:8 and it's not of works lest a man and should boast we are in complete agreement I've everything he said there is 100 percent Catholic even the part about Catholics thinking that they can earn their way to heaven there are some Catholics who think that right but what the church actually teaches is that everything is Grace and we do give gifts to God but those gifts were given to us by God in the first place when God crowns our merits he's crowning his own gifts to us this is st. a custom so we we are in complete agreement and like I said if you read the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification you'll see that there is no issue here but people don't want the issue to be resolved because they love hating the Catholic Church and so they want to hold on to this prejudice and they love having this boogeyman that they can pull out but it's a straw man argument and it's been resolved and everything his grace everything without exception everything his grace have you ever read the joint declaration between the Lutheran's and the Catholics on justification I have not I don't study I guess too much what they believe I study the Bible avidly I'll compare anything you yea with that have you ever read the documents of the Council of Trent I've read about some of ayran some of those and not I was not not of any interest to me again it doesn't matter what a group of people teach you what what does the Bible say the Bible's real clear on most topics what's interesting here is Kent Hovind seems to be suggesting that we only need one book to guide us in Christianity it's the Bible so we don't need to write books about the Bible we don't need to write books explaining the Bible we don't need to write books about once saved always saved we don't need to write books about Sola scriptura we don't need to write any of these books and we certainly don't need to buy them and have them on our bookshelves because we only need the Bible right well I'm pretty sure if I were to look on Kent Hovind bookshelf I'd see lots and lots and lots of books that purport to expand upon and explain the teachings of Jesus Christ the Word of God in Holy Scripture so this idea that only the Bible is worth reading I think is a little bit laughable I don't find that convincing but if Kent Hovind were to take the time to read the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification and to read the documents of Trent then I think he would drop a lot of his anti-catholic rhetoric because the faith verses works justification and sanctification issue really is a non-issue where do you think the Bible came from the Canon of Scripture do you think that we have an infallible list of infallible books I do now there's quite a controversy especially between the Catholics and others about which book should be in there to be steeped in history is to cease to be Protestant and to examine the history of the cannon which Kent Hovind admits is an infallible canon to look at that process a historical process by which the Canon was hammered out over centuries to examine that with an open mind and a sincere love of truth to examine that is to cease to be Protestant there are many many countless ex Protestants who found their way home to the fullness of the Christian truth by confronting the history of the Canon of Scripture it all has to do with authority this is really the central and the key issue for every non Catholic Christian you have to examine this question honestly don't brush it off don't just say that it's self-evident which books are in which books are out because that's private judgment and if you compare your private judgment with the private judgment of Kent Hovind you will find differences so it cannot be the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit does not contradict himself this is the principle of unity by which we are able to recognize the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church so unity is one of the four marks of the church and the Protestants don't have that unity so it really behooves you as a non Catholic Christian to examine the Canon of Scripture and this underlying question of authority because the Catholic Church alone has the three attributes of authority that's a god-given supernatural Authority infallibility which is the protection against teaching error concerning faith and morals and in defect ability which says that the Catholic Church will always be with us we will always have a living Magisterium Kent Hovind is alive he teaches interpretation of the Holy Scriptures but other Protestants are also alive and they also have their own interpretation of those same passages in Scripture which contradict the living teaching of the living man Kent Hovind so obviously they can't both be right obviously it's not the Holy Spirit contradicting himself obviously we need a living Magisterium and it's not Kent Hovind it's not Ken Ham it's not Jim Baker it's not Joel Olsteen it's not Kirk Cameron it's not Ravi Zacharias there's only one Church of Jesus Christ there's only one living Magisterium if God is going to be the judge one day as he claims then it's his obligation to publish his words and to post them and to preserve them so we both agree that there is a divine economy and economy of salvation God has his way of distributing his Grace's God is sovereign so he can choose how he's going to communicate his Grace's to us how and when and where he will distribute his Grace's how he will condescend to communicate his essential saving truths to us through the Word of God the sacred deposit of faith which includes not only sacred scripture but also sacred tradition as the Evangelist John clearly states at the end of his gospel and so there is no argument between myself and Kent Hovind that there is in place a divine economy an economy of salvation whereby God is giving each human sufficient grace to be saved and so we agree about that but we disagree about how God goes about it obviously God communicated to us that he was founding a church that he was building a church that he was giving the keys to st. Peter he gave the power to the Prince of the Apostles and to all of the apostles to bind and to loose and to forgive sins and God also established through His Son Jesus Christ this seven sacraments so we have the church in the seven sacraments and we have Sacred Scripture and sacred tradition both included in the sacred deposit of faith which is guarded and protected and preserved and developed in an organic and non-destructive way by the Living Magisterium which is to say the successor to st. Peter and the successors of the Apostles which we have today in the person and the office of the Pope and those faithful bishops who teach in union with the Pope but Kent Hovind is his own Pope he is his own living Magisterium when he weighs the ideas of other reformers and other Protestants all of these ideas are coming to Kent Hovind bowing to him and submitting their ideas and he is judging some as sound some as unsound some as good and some as evil so he is the ultimate judge just as every Protestant has to be because it's forbidden for a Protestant to bow to any mere mortal human the Protestant is obliged to believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding him into all truth and if he consults with other Christians it's only for edification he can take what's good and leave what he judges to be evil this is the sad tragedy of our wounded unity the solution of course is for everyone to come into full communion with the one true church and to submit in docile obedience to living Magisterium there is no other way there are two different completely different families of manuscripts that the Bibles are translated from there's what's called the majority text of which there are 5000 documents that the King James translators compared and used and then there's the Alexandrian text coming out of Alexandria Egypt of which there are primarily three complete Bibles all of which are different from each other and corrupted in many ways and so the King James translators definitely avoided that they knew about them so what is Kent Hovind saying here is he bowing is he really bending his knee to the scholars and those who did all the work that went into deciding that the King James Version is the best translation is he really submitting to this living Magisterium that is above him and outside of him or is he the judge is he the authority is he the living legend cerium is he the Pope of his worldview either way it's not good it doesn't look good to say because if there is a church if there is a living Magisterium that gave him the Bible then why doesn't he join it why is he considering himself a tentative Baptist Kent Hovind admits that the Baptist's are wrong it's a compromised position he says the Baptist's are not right about everything but they're as close as I've been able to find if I could find better I would join it right now but he admits it's a corrupted man-made religion and it doesn't have authority so who is this body where is this church that gave him the King James Bible where is it and why doesn't he join it why can't he find it why can't he find it and join it and help me to find it and to join it where is the church this is the basic question that I've asked to every Protestant where is the church the Catholic Bible the douay-rheims that do a Confraternity is translated from the Alexandrian manuscript which is why it has quite a few verses missing compared to the King James and the apocryphal books included actually the Alexandrian translation is the oldest translation and because of that it's actually used by scholars to correct the Hebrew text the Masoretic text and this Alexandrian translation is commonly referred to as the Septuagint because of the legend which may contain much truth but which has certainly been embellished a lot the legend of the 72 scholars the Jewish scholars that were summoned by ptolemy ii philadelphus the king of egypt who lived in the 3rd century BC and who established that library that famous library at Alexandria his chief librarian convinced him to get a copy of the sacred book of the Jews so he sent delegates to the Jewish high priest and 72 Israelites were sent 6 from each tribe there are lots of legends about how the translation took place and how perfect it was and so on and so forth but the essential historical fact is that it's the most ancient translation of the Old Testament and it's actually used to correct the Masoretic texts we have complete manuscripts from the 4th and 5th centuries we have the famous Vatican manuscript the Alexandrian manuscript and the sinai manuscript and the purest of the three is generally agreed to be the most ancient of the three and that's the Vaticanus the codex Vaticanus there are of course impurities to be found in all of the manuscripts and this really is what I find fascinating about Protestantism is that they want to have a purity in their faith and they want to have Sola Scripture but they don't even have a pure text they don't have a pure Word of God they don't have a Bible they don't have a manuscript the earliest manuscript that they could come up with is going to be full of impurities and there will be discrepancy and there's a lot of scholarship and there's a lot of speculation that goes into these scholarly decisions about what the original text might have said we don't know we can have a lot of certainty about most of the writings of the Old Testament and certainly most of the writings of the New Testament but we can't know everything there's a lot of doubt there a lot of questions this is what keeps the scholars busy today there are many many many many many questions and many impurities that need to be sorted out and if possible get closer to the original texts the original Word of God but we don't have it this cries out for a living lattice terraeum this cries out for a living sacred tradition if we don't have the living tradition then it's my word against yours it's my manuscript against yours it's my scholarship against yours and it's my Holy Spirit in my heart telling me what's right against your holy spirit in your heart telling you what's right we need a god-given infallibility we need a god-given Authority and we need a god-given in defect ability for the church that Jesus Christ built without that we're lost because as san agustin famously said if we can have doubt about one part of Scripture then we can have doubt about the whole thing we may as well chuck it in the garbage we need a living legend cerium and we need sacred tradition which is promoted and protected and published as Kent Hovind himself said do we have any original writings or are they all copies of copies of copies that we have used to make our Bibles yeah I think God made sure there were not any originals because if there was original piece of paper that Paul wrote a letter on or that you know Moses wrote on the people would worship the paper instead of reading the words on it so ironically Kent's talking about idolatry and how we can be tempted to turn the Living Word of God into a dead idol Kent Hovind is absolutely right we can turn Bible into an idol we can we can worship it as a fixed static thing but it is the Living Word of God the Word of God is not subject to corruption the Word of God is perfect the Word of God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow just Kent Hovind have that or just Kent Hovind have a very recent development the King James Version which King James Version does he adhere to Kent Hovind has ears and a mouth and eyes so he can hear he can speak and he can see but Kent Hovind Sola scriptura Idol is dead it's deaf it's dumb and it's blind it's dead and it does not impart life the Bible that he's idolized does contain life it's the Living Word of God there's much truth in the King James Version I have a King James Version I can read it I can be edified by it why not because it's Protestant not because it teaches me soul or scripture it doesn't but because it's the Living Word of God and I have a living Magisterium that puts limits on my private judgment yes I'm allowed to explore yes I'm allowed to interpret yes I'm allowed to speculate in a pious way but there are limits there are dogmas I can't speculate beyond those limits I have to stay within bounds who sets the bounds Kent Hovind no the god man Jesus Christ through his spotless bride his mystical body the living Magisterium the Pope and the bishops who teach in union with the Pope they said the limits they set the balance they preserve they protect and they publish those balance those dogmas and those doctrines those disciplines so get into the church in Psalm 12 it says the words of the Lord are pure like silver purified in the furnace of Earth purified seven times thou shalt keep them O Lord thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever so God is promising in Psalms 12:6 and 7 to preserve his words but if you read that identical same verse in a Catholic Bible they have changed it where God has promised to protect us from evil people which is not at all what it says but the reason the Alexandrian manuscript made those changes was because they changed thousands of things so like I said before the Septuagint is the oldest translation of the Old Testament and it's used to correct the Masoretic text the oldest Masoretic text we have is from the ninth century so I don't I really don't understand why can't Holand is balking at the Septuagint especially since Jesus quoted the Septuagint version more often there was one Protestant writer who said that they counted three hundred and forty places where the New Testament cites the sub to urgent but only thirty-three places where it cites the Masoretic text rather than the Satou Junt but the whole question really is moot because the underlying question is one of authority who has the authority to interpret the scriptures given the fact that there's so many hairy questions revolving around original the original texts the oldest manuscripts the impurities that have crept in not to mention English translations which are very problematic and so where is the authority to interpret this infallibly where does that authority come from is it is it the Holy Spirit dwelling in the heart of Kent Hovind that interprets or is it the Living Magisterium of the church st. Peter who was given the keys by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ the Word of God made flesh which do you think it might be so I've weighed the teachings of Kent Hovind believe me I've weighed them against the teachings of Jesus Christ and his church and I've decided to Catholic in Acts chapter 8 verse 36 this eunuch is talking to Philip and he said hey here's some water can I get baptized okay now do you have verse 37 what does that say no it's in parenthesis there's nothing correct because verse 37 says Philips answer to the guy's question you know cases can I get baptized the answer was if you believe you may and he said I believe Jesus Christ is the son of God see according to the Bible you have to be a believer to get baptized well the Catholics baptize babies they can't be believers the Lutheran's baptize babies that's why they take that verse out it doesn't fit their doctrine so I know it's very tempting to pull out the proof texts and say well actually there is a justification for infant baptism in Holy Scripture and these are the passages that support it and this is why the church and follow Blee defined the dogma that infant baptism is ordained positively by God and so on and so forth it's tempting to pull out these proof texts and it's tempting to want to debate on that level it's tempting I say not for me but for many people I'm not tempted in that way I'm tempted to go to the underlying issue where is the authority with what authority do you speak with what authority do you interpret Scripture with what authority do you decide which interpretation is best and which translation of Scripture is best which set of manuscripts is the best by what authority this cuts the Gordian knot of all the scholarship that would be required do you know how many lifetimes it would take to master the scholarship of every Harry question that separates the non Catholic Christians from the fullness of Christian truth which is the mystical body of Jesus Christ do you know how many lifetimes I don't have time I'm not even interested in that I'm interested in submitting to Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ said it's better for you if I go because if I don't go I won't send you the Holy Spirit who will lead you into all truth he did not leave us orphans I don't need Kent Hovind I do not need his teaching I don't consider his teaching to be authoritative to be infallible or to be in defective all he himself admitted that he will switch from Baptist to the next best thing if he can find it he'll switch to it am I gonna hook my wagon to that train I don't think so I've got an infallible church with god-given Authority I've got Noah at the helm of the ark and I kiss his feet with tears of joy and I've entered in to that low stooping doorway into the side of the pitch-black Ark and I'm in his Kent Hovind in is he submitting and docile obedience I don't think he's in how am i concerned about his salvation yes I am concerned about his salvation but I haven't forbidden by the church I'm forbidden by Jesus Christ to despair of Kent Hovind eternal salvation I'm forbidden to despair I'm commanded to love him I'm commanded to share the good news with him and those who follow him Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life if you're mocking and ridiculing the Ark you're probably not disposed to get into the Ark if you're mocking and ridiculing Noah you're probably not disposed to kiss his feet and to stoop and bend into that narrow and low and lowly dark doorway which leads in to life get in the art so if you put together all the bits of data on the the Bibles and the partial information like that it points it real clearly to the King James Bible being exactly where God preserved his words he's obligated to do that someplace and so yeah I think that if you're gonna start a discussion on any spiritual topic you first need to decide which Bible are we gonna compare it's just like if you're talking to somebody in Europe you know you're doing measurements are you doing it in metric or standard there have been a lot of serious mistakes maybe as some German engineer sends the measurements in metric and some American engineer thinks it's in standard and messes things up so Kent Hovind acknowledges here that there is only one standard of truth and that we need to bend and bow and humble ourselves and to acknowledge that one standard because there aren't two standards and there's a great danger as he said there's a great danger of being confused about which is the standard what is the authority what who is our sovereign ruler and whenever I think about a standard I think about a king's iron rod that is of a fixed length by which we measure everything this is the rod the iron rod of the god man Jesus Christ and it can protect us if we're with him but if we're not with him it will destroy us so we need to get in line we need to submit and it seems that in principle Kent Hovind is amenable to this idea he brought up the idea of the one standard so where is it where is his church where is the church where is the authority to be found where is that infallibility that he so clearly craves and if he wants to elevate King James to the status of Pope or the status of God Almighty then he will have to point me to King James where is King James today where is this King James Church so it's all about Authority I am completely convinced and I'm willing to debate it or discuss it with anybody that God preserved his words in the King James and yours does not have verse 37 it probably does not have mark chapter 9 verse 42 or 44 or 46 one of those two of those are missing in mark chapter 9 it talks about you know those who are not saved go to hell where the fire burns and the fire is not quenched you know I'm not sure what his point is here I mean obviously the Catholic Church teaches very clearly that hell is real and that you can go there I mean Kent Hovind by his own private judgment has to himself to be immune from hell that he is once saved always saved and so that he himself is guaranteed to go to heaven immediately after death so I think it's clear which one of us is wrong about the reality of hell and the danger of hell he's been deceived by Satan into thinking that he is saved that he is guaranteed salvation that heaven is already his that he has the crown he has the victory and he can sin and sin boldly this is what Luther said the irony is that those who believe that are in great danger of burning in hell so no the church is not wrong about Hell the church is not changing the Bible in order to deceive people about Hell the church is very clear about hell and Kent Hovind needs to meditate on the reality of Hell and the place that is prepared there for him it is prepared for him by Satan and the demons it's a very special place just for him designed especially for Kent Hovind it's there it's prepared it's ready it's waiting just like there's a place prepared for each and every one of us we need to know that we need to meditate on that we need to avoid that we need to strive with God's help to cooperate with all the graces that we have available and Kent Hovind seems to be ignorant of the fact there's a place ready for him and that he's in great danger but about two hundred verses missing from your Catholic Bible because they don't match the teaching of the Catholic Church that's why they take out what was the church doing for the first few centuries when I didn't have a canon of Scripture it didn't have an authoritative and infallible definition of a Canon of Scripture what was it leaning on it was leaning on tradition sacred tradition infallible sacred tradition and it used that tradition to judge the scriptures it used the god-given Authority and the god-given infallibility to define dogmatically the Canon of Scripture by leaning on tradition and leaning on the doctrines leaning on the oral teachings of Jesus Christ which if they were all written could not be contained in all the books of the world so there is a connection between doctrine and Sacred Scripture but it's not the perverse connection that's being made in the paranoid mind of Kent Hovind here it's not the conspiracy that Kent Hovind is making it out to be it's the church defining the Canon of holy scripture based on holy tradition and the doctrines are precisely what allowed the church to come to the understanding of which books were in which books were out and Kent Hovind is bowing and submitting to the Canon of Scripture and what he's inadvertently doing is he's admitting that there's a consistency between the doctrine of the Catholic Church and the Holy Scriptures as given to us by that same church just because somebody believes in Christ does not make them a Christian you have to be born again how exactly do you get born again baptism no that's just water if baptism washes away your sins then why on earth did Jesus die on the cross his death on the cross is what saves us it's a blood my ways are not your ways says the Lord my thoughts are not your thoughts we need to respect God and His ways we don't need to understand his ways but we need to submit to his ways because his ways are not our ways if God's ways are mysterious to us then thank God and ask God in all humility to have your eyes open to understand his ways and if you can't understand them at least to have faith that there's a reason there's a good reason why why god uses water to confer grace on those that will be saved and there is no possibility of salvation without baptism so we need faith to be saved and Kent Hovind needs faith and he has a lot of faith but he doesn't have the fullness of the faith and so he is in very real teacher and I'm praying for him I'm praying for him and his family every day until the end of time so there is hope I don't I'm not in despair I do have hope for Kent Hovind and for those who listen to his teachings in Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden when they sinned they made themselves aprons out of fig leaves and God said no no no something has to die and he made them coats out of skins something died so that's the difference the Catholics are still making aprons out of fig leaves they're still trying to cover their stand with their own works no the church clearly teaches there's no salvation without the shedding of blood there's no forgiveness of sins and everything in the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ the church itself is the mystical body of Jesus Christ as st. Paul said right it's a deep mystery that they are one flesh yeah I completely disagree with that but I know that's what the Catholics teach their people I'd be very curious to know how Kent Hovind interprets Ephesians 532 where st. Paul talks about Christ and the church being one flesh joined together as a matrimony I think that this one truth is enough to condemn all disunity and all attempts to claim don't see any way of escaping the truth that Jesus Christ and his bride the church are one it's only a willing blindness that can keep people from seeing that the Holy Roman Catholic Church is the mystical body of Christ it's the spotless Bride of Christ and if anyone says that it isn't all their own Catholic Church then it is incumbent upon them to point me to the church where's the church show me with the churches Kent Hovind admits that it's not the Baptist Church but it's good enough for now because the Baptist Church conforms most closely with Kent Hovind interpretation of the King James Version of the Bible which King James Version I don't know there are many versions of the King James Bible I'm sure he has his reasons why his preferred version of the King James Bible is the best version is it the best for now is the closest one that he's been able to find so far and there's a better one out there for him or is it objectively and eternally perfect and pure and without any error I'd be curious to know but the underlying issue here as always is authority and infallibility where is the church where is the church God has an obligation to give us what we need to be saved so where is the church but Jesus was talking to Peter and he said thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church well first of all that's the only verse anything near that topic anywhere in the Bible and the Bible is clear that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word is established there should be three verses at least on a topic like there are probably a hundred verses on the topic of salvation so perhaps the reason Kent Hovind is unable to find three proof texts for the primacy of Peter is because he's unwilling to find three proof texts to support the primacy of Peter he can look at Matthew 16:18 1619 Luke 22 32 john 21 17 mark 16 7 luke 24 31 or acts 113 226 acts 2:14 acts 2:41 acts three six to seven acts 5 1 to 11 acts 821 acts 10:44 to 46 acts 15 7 acts 1519 Galatians 1:18 Galatians 2 11 to 14 Matthew 10 1 to 4 mark 3 16 to 19 Luke 6 14 to 16 acts 1:13 Luke 9 32 mark 16 7 Matthew 18:21 mark 8 29 Luke 845 Luke 845 Luke 12 41 and John 6 69 and Peters name occurs 195 times more than all of the other references to the other apostles put together now it is a literary technique that's employed in parts of the Bible where emphasis is given through repetition this is undeniable but I wonder how far Kent Hovind would take this idea and I wonder how Kent Hovind has knit together his web of doctrine how he's knit together his particular hierarchy of dogmas if he's using this weight of repetition only or if that's the primary tool that he uses or is he using other tools is he mentioning this only in an in an offhand way to dismiss this one topic of the primacy of Peter or is he applying it consistently everywhere is he applying this for example to the doctrine of Sola scriptura are there three references to the teaching of Sola scriptura in the scriptures are there two passages in Holy Scripture that talk about Sola scriptura or is there even one single solitary passage in all of Scripture that explicitly states the doctrine of Sola scriptura the teaching of Sola scriptura is not reinforced by three passages it's not the slogan of Sola scriptura that is the pillar and foundation of truth it's not Sola scriptura which Jesus built upon the rock st. Peter it is not sola scriptura that we must obey and listen to lest we be shunned as pagan or tax collector it is the church that is the pillar and foundation of the truth it is the church that is built by Christ on the rock of st. Peter and it is the church that we must obey and listen to lest we be shunned as pagan or tax collector it's the church and whoever here's the church here's Jesus Christ this is what Jesus Christ taught so get into the church what about John 6 with the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and then the early church fathers who very very clearly taught that if you didn't believe in the real presence then you are in grave danger even st. Paul talks about that know what I'll think Paul talks about that but I know the early church fathers if by that you mean that Catholic Church Fathers yes in first Corinthians 1129 st. Paul says very clearly each one must examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup for anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body eats and drinks judgment on himself that is why many among you are weak and sick and a number of you have died so this is pretty dramatic I think we'd have a hard time as a Protestant justifying this sort of imagery where the Lord's Supper is that dangerous so I'd be interested to hear Kent Hovind interpretation of this the last time I confronted a prostitute this verse in the context of the real presence he abruptly ended the conversation and unfriended me on Facebook and refused to have any further communication with me I made a post mortem episode about that Catholic versus Protestant post mortem for anyone that's interested you can check that out and as for the early church fathers how many writings do we have of non Catholic Church Fathers that I'd like to see that I'd love to I'd love to have a list of those and if Kent Hovind had a church perhaps then they could publish a list of the early church fathers of the true church as opposed to the early church fathers of the Catholic Church but Kent Hovind doesn't have a church he has only temporarily and tentatively adopted the Baptist Church the false Baptist Church as his interim Church which is as close as he's ever found to the truth but it's admittedly not the true church so he can't point me to the true church fathers because he has not yet found the true church so this is why I'm suggesting and I'm advising and I'm sternly warning anyone that's like Kent Hovind to acknowledge the reality of Christ's Church that he did build a church he was not frustrated in his design he is fully man but he's also fully God so he's not frustrated in his design when he wanted to build a church he built a church and he said that the Holy Spirit would lead that church into all truth and he said that the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth and he said that he would not leave us orphans so we have a church and it's not hard to identify the church there are four marks to identify the church the church is one Holy Catholic and apostolic so all humans have a moral obligation to seek the truth to find the truth to seek the true church and to find the true church and to get in to the true church so this is my Stern warning and it's my friendly advice to friend and foe alike take it or leave it but right from the beginning when the Catholic Church really got going with Constantine in the early 300s they persecuted those who resisted anything that they taught they even taught I think it was Augustine of Hippo I've got the quote here someplace said you know if someone does not believe like we believe this is an embarrassment to the world and these people should not be allowed to live you should take all means necessary to stop any doctrine against what the Church teaches I don't know what document he's quoting there I'd like to get the reference for that but I do agree generally with this sentiment that we should be embarrassed of every deviation from our Saviour Jesus Christ I agree that that is an embarrassment I agree also that death is the punishment for that the wages of sin is death so when we knowingly and willingly turn away from God the wages of that sin is death it is a sin to knowingly and willingly refused to join the Catholic Church or to leave the church if you are a member it is a mortal sin it is a domina belen death is the price so yes death to all who stray from the Catholic Church and death to all who stray from the Ark of Noah this is the way there are two cities there's a City of God in the city of man they're characterized by two loves the love of self unto contempt of God leads to death and the love of God unto contempt of self leads to life because it leads to God who is life and who is every infinite perfection which we can enjoy if we orient ourselves toward God and the way to do that in the economy of salvation is to get onto the ark the one Ark which is black yes and Girish on the otherwise beautiful landscape but if you refuse to get in you're doomed the beauty of the landscape will be wiped out by the coming flood so you just need to get in don't judge her by her appearance get in because God said to get in because you're doomed if you don't get in and so although I don't know where st. Augustine might have said this and if he did say it I do agree with the sentiment that death is the punishment for the sin of heresy and the sin of apostasy there is invincible ignorance though Kent Hovind may be invincible in his ignorance he may be without the visible Church he may be outside of the arc outside of the visible church for no fault of his own I don't know I can't judge his heart God alone can judge the hurt but I can judge objectively that he is outside of the visible structure of the Church Saint Agustin famously said that many of those who are outside of the visible Church and appear to be separated from the church are actually to be found ultimately within and those who appeared to be within ultimately will be found without so there's a great mystery there as well and this is because of the mystery of the heart only God can read the heart only God knows but objectively we can judge and we can say that Kent Hovind is rejecting the Catholic Church he's rejecting the fullness of the truth and so he is in danger so that's why I'm warning him and I'm warning you the listener if you're not in the Catholic Church or if you're in the Catholic Church in name only then get in fully get on board and all you gotta do is look at the history of your church to see how many tens of thousands of Bible believers they killed in various ways you know cut off their heads torture them it was unreal this stuff they did anything they would probably still do it if they had the power so you have to be Catholic you have to be part of the Mother Church the Muslims do the same with their religion anybody who's non-muslim has to be killed I mean that's what they that's in the Quran there 109 verses in the Quran that basically teach you have to kill anybody who won't who won't agree with you it would they won't they won't bow to Allah and say Muhammad was a prophet they have to be killed I wonder if Kent Hovind really thinks that we are commanded to kill our enemies I wonder if he believes that and I wonder if he could Google that question and find out the answer how long it would take for him to find the answer to that question Kent Hovind here is teaching that there's a sort of bloodthirsty Jihad mentality in the Catholic Church if not today then at least in the Middle Ages we can picture along with him all the black legends coming to life because the propaganda has been with us for a long time we can really paint a picture but if you actually ask someone to Google the teachings the official teachings of the church the perennial teachings the long standing tradition the teachings in the Bible the teachings of the Apostles the teaching of the early church fathers the teachings reinforced by councils and by papal bulls what's the official position of the church none of the anti-catholic propaganda sticks ever and it's the same with this bloodthirsty Jihad mentality it's a complete joke it's a complete fantasy if you're interested in the truth google it it's not hurt if you're interested so again with this idea of the just punishment for those who are unwilling to see the truth they will be unable to see the truth their little fingers can't type in those words into the Google search engine because they are unwilling to type those words into the Google search engine I think we'd have more luck with a million monkeys sitting at keyboards we'd get more Catholic doctrine out of that experiment than a million anti-catholic sitting at the same keyboards with the same Wi-Fi connection we'd get more Catholic doctrine out of the random bashing of the keywords of a bunch of apes because where there's a will there's a way and when there's no will there's no way that's what they teach mm-hmm what do you think about the Virgin Mary just generally well she was a virgin until Jesus was born and Joseph knew her not until Jesus was born after that they had at least seven more children she was not she's not the perpetual virgin that's a ridiculous doctrine that makes its object is of course to deify her like wow look at that she's above sex even Luther Calvin and Zwingli all believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary it's one of the most well supported dogmas of the Catholic Church if you want to find out what the Church teaches there's a great series called Mary ology for everyone you can find it on YouTube it's quite a long series of talks and if you're not interested it doesn't matter what I say I've got loads of scripture verses the early church fathers ecumenical councils writings of popes the writings of the saints this is one of the most well supported teachings in Christianity the perpetual virginity there's so much typology involved it is so beautiful and it is so convincing if you open your mind to Jesus Christ and it's church but if your mind is closed if you are in private judgment mode if you are your own Pope and it doesn't matter what you read it doesn't matter what you hear it doesn't matter what I say you will refuse to humble yourself you will refuse to see the beauty of the truth so I won't go into all the arguments but I can tell you that it's one of the most powerful and beautiful teachings of the church the perpetual virginity of Mary and if you're Mary ology is wrong or impoverished then your Christ ology also is wrong and impoverished the two go together Mary is there obviously for Jesus Christ and everything that Mary has in terms of grace comes from God Mary does not merit the graces but she cooperated with those graces she is the highest of the saints if you're a Protestant Christian and you're listening to this and you're turned off by Mary Allah ji you're turned off by the dogmas surrounding Mary it's only because you don't understand Christology if you don't have a deep and abiding love of Mary the mother of God it's because you don't yet know her you need to meditate on Mary's role in relation to Jesus Christ in the mystery of the annunciation the visitation the nativity the presentation and the finding of the child chooses in the temple how did she respond to getting her son back after three days meditate on those Joyful Mysteries meditate on Mary's role in the baptism of Jesus and her intercessory role at the miracle at Cana meditate on her role in the proclamation of Jesus during his public life meditate on Mary's role in the Transfiguration where was she what was she doing meditate on Mary's role at the Last Supper of the institution of the Eucharist think about Mary when her son Jesus was in the agony in the garden think about Mary as Jesus is being whipped and scourge dat the pillar or being crowned with thorns or carrying his cross or as he's hanging there on the cross crucified think about Mary standing there at the foot of the cross think about the role she's played think about how she stands at the foot of the cross and think about how Jesus said to his beloved disciple behold your mother and how he said to his mother woman behold your son think about that meditate on that think about what that might mean for you as a Christian as a follower of Jesus Christ think about those words think about those scenes those mysteries think about Mary's reaction to the resurrection of our Lord how did she respond to getting her son back after three days what was she feeling how did her son treat her after the resurrection think that picture that encounter between the resurrected Savior and his mother Mary put yourself in that scene think about the Ascension of Jesus Christ in heaven where was Mary at that time what was she doing what was she seeing what was she thinking what was she feeling as her son her flesh ascended to the father and promised to send her spouse the holy spirit down to inhabit the church think about the descent of the holy spirit in the upper room think about Mary in the midst of the apostles think about what she was teaching the Apostles in the upper room think about the hidden life of Jesus Christ and how she had been the protector and the mother of the Godman Jesus Christ for thirty years he lived in strict obedience to her think about that think about what she was able to impart the sacred tradition she was able to impart to the Apostles in that Upper Room at Pentecost but during all of the time that she spent with think about her assumption her bodily assumption when Jesus came to take her with a host of angels and all the saints who had gone before up to heaven think about her bodily assumption how she is their body and soul there's only a thin veil that keeps us that prevents us from seeing their flesh but they're not far they're not far from each and every one of us and finally think about the mystery of the coronation of Mary in heaven as Queen of the universe she's the Queen of Heaven she's the queen of all the saints and all the murderers so I want you to think about the life of Mary and think about her relationship with the god man Jesus Christ and bear in mind that you're Mary ology is a litmus test for your Christology you cannot have a sound and rich and full Christology without a sound and rich and full mary ology this is the economy of salvation Christ is the head we are the body Mary is the neck all graces come through Mary this has been ordained by God nothing wrong with sex God created it if he's first thing he said to Adam it's not good that the man be and somehow to get this idea that if they can somehow make the people believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin a that that's possible which I don't think it is she was married to Joseph who's probably a normal man like everybody else and and it clearly names brothers and sisters it gives their names a James was one of his half-brothers he wrote sanctity of sex and the sanctity of the family these are key teachings of the Catholic Church the church elevates sex like no other religion so no Kent Hovind has nothing to say against the church with respect to its teachings on sexuality on virginity and certainly Kent Hovind interpretation of the Brothers of Jesus would not stand up to scrutiny this James for example that's talked of as the brother of the Lord his parents are clearly identified if you want to look into this question of the brothers and sisters you will be able to find the truth if you don't want to find the truth because you like being where you are then just stay where you are I'm not here to convince you I'm here to warn you if you willfully keep yourself outside of the church knowing it to be true and you resist learning the truth about the Catholic Church if you resist if you can't be bothered to find out the truth there are many people that have an invincible ignorance they've never really thought about it but those who are conscious of an anti-catholic sentiment and that don't investigate both sides of the story that don't look up what the Church teaches those who refuse to examine what the Church teaches on this question or on any other question that keeps our separated brethren from being in full communion with the Catholic Church those who refuse to look at what the Church teaches they are in great danger I'm not speaking here of those who are invincibly ignorant I'm just speaking of those who hate the church because of doctrines x y&z but who have refused to look at the church's actual teaching on doctrines x y&z it's a grave danger so if you have concerns then find out what the Church teaches it's not hurt she probably was a fourteen or fifteen or sixteen year old girl that loved God was a virgin was impregnated by the Holy Spirit at bored Jesus Christ and then went on and was married and had seven more children at least seven better named in the scripture if you could convince me that Jesus had real blood siblings than I would abandon Jesus Christ as a false messiah that's right would that matter if you had real blood siblings that makes no sense at all because it's a dogma of the church that Mary did not have any other children and so if that dog might is false the whole of Christianity comes tumbling down no no no the whole of Catholicism comes tumbling down not Christian Catholicism is Jesus Christ right there one in the same there as st. Paul famously said there one flesh and it's a deep mystery yeah I think you're in the wrong church is the problem but that's another issue but what is the church the church is the is the collective body of believers who believe Jesus Christ died on the cross rose from the dead and they've accepted his payment for their sin well that describes me well if you died today where would you go probably purgatory I am confident that I will make it to happen but I need to be purified I'm in the Ark what I need to be purified there's much suffering that I'll have to go through either here or in purgatory and it's probably going to be done in purgatory I don't want to go to purgatory I pray to God every day to purify me here in this life so that I can go straight to heaven but I'm aware of the fact that I'm so far from being a saint that it's laughable that's why I left and where do you find that in the Bible in the deuterocanonical yes there you go there's the problem again I wonder if Kent Hovind realizes that the church considers the deuterocanonical books to be inspired and inerrant because they are but do you think that you will be purified when you stand before God or do you think that something impure can stand before God oh yeah if I was trying to stand in my righteousness I would be in serious trouble but see the robe of Jesus Christ has put upon us when we receive him his blood pays for our sins all through the Bible God tried to drill this into the heart heads of the Jews it's the blood without the shedding of blood there's no remission the high priest did not appear before God without the blood he'd be struck dead and so if you try to appear before God trusting your works or your baptism or your church membership or God look what I did for you you're gonna get the same result Cain got and I'm gonna stand before God and say I want you to say anything Jesus righteousness was put onto my account all my sins are forgiven I'm cleansed I'm clean in God's eyes just like the priest was when the priest went in with the blood nothing else matters Kent Hovind probably doesn't believe in the priesthood so how does he see the priesthood of the Jews how does he see the priesthood of Melchizedek how does he see the priesthood of Jesus Christ it seems like a void just like there's a void where there should be Mary ology there's just a big nothing there's nothing there and what's going to fill that void if it's not Jesus Christ what's it gonna be if it's not of God where do his teachings come from this is something to ponder if you're outside of the Catholic Church think about the pockets and the voids doctrinally as being filled up with something if it's not filled up with the Word of God if it's not filled up with Jesus Christ and the godly infallible truth then what is it think about that it's a horrifying prospect to have these voids and to have them filled in with error and with lies and to be a slave to the father of lies does anyone want that I don't I renounce Satan and every morning and every night I renew my consecration to Jesus through Mary my slavery I renew it I renew my baptismal vows morning and night so Kent Hovind shuns baptism he's shunning slavery to Jesus Christ it's dark it's very dark so that's why I preach the church I guess you're a Baptist right is that the technical word for your form of Christianity Baptist yes I cannot find anybody closer to what the Scriptures teach than the Baptist if I could find somebody I would switch today the name means nothing to me it's the doctrine I have no doubt that people who submit to private judgment think that they're submitting to the Word of God that the Word of God is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is there all they've given themselves completely in submission to the Word of God it's a consoling thought but it's based on a lie it's a false comfort and it's based on a lie and the lie is the same lie that Satan whispered in the ear of Eve in the garden you can't trust God you know better it's better that you take control of the knowledge of good and evil take control grab the fruit reach out and grab you know you want to touch it you know you want to feel the weight of that fruit in your hand and it's tender flesh it just gives just the right amount under your touch you want to feel the skin you want to take up by you want where is God I don't see them I can see you I can see the tree I can see the fruit and you can see all that you can see me the snake I'm your friend I'm here to help you I'm here to guide you you can see me you can touch me and you can just as easily reach out touch this fruit you won't die you'll know for yourself good and evil you can judge you know you know right from wrong where is this God who told you not to eat of it where is this God that told you not to eat any of the fruit in that garden where is this God that decided you should not even look at the fruit on the trees do you see him is he behind the cloud you can trust me and you can trust me when I tell you that even if you don't think you can trust me you know you can trust yourself so see for yourself what God doesn't want you to see take a bite if you don't like the first mouthful there's no harm done because you won't have eaten the whole fruit he just took a bite you're just tasting it you're not eating it God said not to eat it but he didn't say you couldn't taste it he said not to look at it so close your eyes and and when she listened to Satan Eve fell and there's em nity between the woman and the serpent until this very day and what was lost through the disobedience of Eve he's gained for us through the obedience of the new Eve Mary Mary the mother of God Mary the mother of the church and you cannot have God for your father if you do not have the Catholic so from Genesis to Revelation marry the woman the queen-mother she's there she's pure she's holy it's her flesh that was it's the Virgin's heart that was pierced by the spear of the soldier on the cross if you are saved by the blood of Jesus to love Christ is to love Mary and to love the Scriptures is to love the church remember that Jesus Christ is both God and man but he subjected himself to the human authority of Mary and the Word of God in Scripture is under the care and protection of Holy Mother Church so get in the church you don't know how much time you've got you may go this very night tomorrow may never come so get into the church if you have questions about the church use the fingers that God gave you to type a question into this search engine and get one by one tackle the obstacles to your faith break down the barriers humble yourself kiss the feet of Noah embrace st. Peter and all since get in stay in and help others so that's it take care we'll talk soon god