CVS Live - 2021-10-01 - Gatzu

Author Streamed Friday October 1st, 2021


Gatzu is a protestant of some sort who has been commenting on my Kent Hovid interview (and the corresponding Meta episode I made in response to that interview.) Gatzu was quite antagonistic and accused me of deleting his comments (which I did not do). When I asked him to email me the allegedly missing comments he said he refused to do so because I would benefit from moving our discussion into a private forum. He then challenged me to a public discussion of the doctrine of justification, and so I agreed to send him a Google Meet link at 7:50 pm tonight, which I did.


CVS Live - 2021-10-01 - Gatzu

Author Streamed March 13th, 2021

audio


video

transcript
These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
today i was supposed to be interviewing this character here who goes by the name not sure what that means we had some interactions on the kent holland interview that i made some years back two years ago i interviewed may 25th 2019 and then i did a little meta episode responses to kent hovind in uh anyway in the comments this guy has been replying a lot let me see if i can find the actual here we go sorry i'm just i'm not good at multitasking but i'll just get this up on the screen and we'll just see what what this guy's i don't know if these are the first comments that he made because a bunch of them got deleted and but i do have an email notification that i get from youtube even if the comments get deleted so i'll go and i'll take a look at those two i'm just trying to figure out what happened with this guy gatsu and why is he not here now so anyway i'll start by looking at this thread that still is public on the kent hovind interview it says gatsu one day ago kent did a great ken did a great explaining the falseness and i joked yeah pope kent is the ultimate authority for sure lol referring there to the private judgment that protestants use everyone's their own pope right and gatsu replied not kent god's word is the final authority well how do you know where god's word is and that there is an infallible list of infallible books how do you know that without using without resorting to private judgment that so he's saying god's word is the final authority not can't hovent you missed kent's entire point he says we ought to follow god's word only not catholic inventions of new doctrines kent pretty much dismantled catholic teaching with scripture well and i responded i responded you were wrong pope kent hovind like every other protestant is using private judgment here's a little analysis i did of the kent hovind interview and then i gave the link you can find that on my channel easily um so so i pointed to my med episode he says that's how you know kent was telling the truth okay so yeah here he's making reference to the fact that he can't see it because they were deleted but he tried and tried and tried to post something but it kept getting deleted not by me because i don't delete comments this one's stuck it says again lol that's how you know kent was telling the truth the implication being that i'm censoring but i'm not censoring anyone i don't delete comments i replied gatsu i got an email notification with this comment from you quote catholic verses why are you deleting my reply lol unquote but it does not appear in the thread when i click on the reply button try again google google may be deleting it i allow comments i allow all comments and never delete comments read the comments of my most viewed videos and and then i said if google is not allowing your comment then email me at cvs.podcast gmail.com his reply to that is what is weird is that it only deletes my objection to your video the implication being that i'm deleting things that i find objections i found i find difficult or insurmountable which is laughable in all my years as a catholic i've never come up against one objection that was insurmountable or that was even he goes on to say my post asking why doesn't get deleted my post asking why does doesn't get deleted just if it's an objection to the link you gave and he's look got the little curious emoji there well i can assure you i did not delete any comments and then he says no it's not google lol it benefits you more to make this private through email instead of public on the comment section so everyone can see so this guy obviously thinks that i want to like screw him over to uh hush them up and get them on to so i could have the privacy i can hide my shame that this uh that i got owned by kent hovind by and by all these protestant arguments this your channel so you are free to do whatever you want with it to me all this shows kent was in the right okay well i'm not deleting your comments so it's completely relevant either you should check try to find a correlation like is it every time you try to put a link or is it when you use a certain kinds of inflammatory language i don't know i don't know what google uh how google does their censorship i have no idea and i know that they do censorship that's for sure but i don't because i have nothing to fear i'm not trying to control anyone i reply got to this time i do not have any email notification for any missing comments on this thread perhaps you are playing games with me now because i'm starting to think that's the case god only knows but rest assured that i do not delete any comments ever email me the missing comment or comments and i will post them here as i have done with your other mysteriously deleted comments for example up here right i put it in quotes catholic versus why are you deleting my reply lol i posted it for all to see because i don't care if people could say whatever they want i've had a lot worse things said to me when you email me we can arrange a date and time to have you come chat on my video lime street live stream some and now he says he replies now you're trying to switch blame onto me laugh my ass off i'm not the owner of this channel nor do i have the power to tell people tell google to delete post shifting blame is not a good look i'm not blaming i'm speculating are you playing games god only knows is it that freaky of a speculation to think that a troll on youtube is playing mind games have you spent any time on social media or on youtube anyway let's take a look at the actual that i get oh there's a new one just maybe what i'll do is i'll adjust my view here because this isn't working out too well let's adjust my view i can hide my little logo come over here okay that was youtube telling me that i'm live you already know that i'm live so let's go through these we'll start with the i think this was this original one can degrade explaining of falseness of catholic here he's commenting on my meta episode my post gets deleted here too huh seems quote unquote google is targeting me lol well i'm not deleting it so either you are or google is those are the two options because google owns youtube oops oh there's another one here here's okay this is a pertinent uh comment that he made on the meta episode he says first point in that video is already wrong you said catholicism agrees with kent that salvation is by faith not of our own work catholicism does believe you need works to be saved the bible says very clearly that we are not saved by faith alone works do have something to do with our salvation and that citation comes from a catholic website so you can read the whole thing for yourself but the pertinent phrase is this as catholics we believe that we are saved by god's grace alone we can do nothing apart from god's grace to receive the free gift of salvation we also believe however that we have to hello so that's uh that's a very catholic statement there oh continuing with the email thread let's go back to the previous one here see what what was missing why are you deleting my reply i'm not again this is how you know kent was telling the this we saw i'm not sure if i saw this one catholic versus great as soon as i edited my post to make an objection in the other video deleted since this one still stands i won't edit it i'll carry carrying from the other thread do you think that the statement i quoted from the cut from that source the bible says very clearly we're not saved by faith alone works do have something to do with our salvation right or wrong and i agreed with it's very catholic statement uh my my uh responses obviously are not included in these uh email notifications i get i'm just going through the history to see and to prove that i didn't delete anything i'm showing everything that i catholic versus okay just to be clear before i go on so i don't create a straw man you do agree with this statement right if you could just answer my question real quick so i won't have to create a potential straw man i'll try to join the stream if i can the stream that i promised to set up at 8 pm today i'll try to join the stream if i can that's the promise he made me and the promise he broke because i was just chatting with him i know he's on i invited him again and he says i'll let you know but can you just reply to the question i asked you real quick about that catholic statement i've already agreed with it three times if we do this discussion i don't want to make a straw man argument against you you said you agree with the link i gave yesterday yeah i agree with it how many times i have to tell you i agree with it so is it safe to conclude you also agree with a statement made in that link the bible says very works do have something to do with our salvation yeah how many times do i have to tell you yes i agree with that it's a catholic statement and he replies okay i only asked because in your other video rebutting kent hovind you said catholics agree with him that salvation is by faith not of ourselves or works yeah that's what i sent you the the sixth session document on justification in the council of trent that's what it says we cannot merit either by faith or by works we cannot merit the grace of justification that's what the council of trent teaches so gatsu continues but as i suspected catholics don't exactly believe that sure we do just wanted to confirm so if i have that discussion with you and i mentioned that catholics believe they have to earn salvation by their works it won't be a strong straw man argument since you admit you agree the bible says very clearly that we are not saved by faith alone works do have something to do with our salvation yeah we need to understand the nuanced position of the catholic church which is that we cannot marry everything is grace we cannot merit the grace of justification everything is grace we cannot merit either by faith or by grace excuse me by faith or by works the graces of justification right but as christians we also have to work out our salvation in fear and trembling right that means living the christian life of faith and hope and charity that's what it means and otherwise our sanctification will never deepen and we could even lose our sanctification we can lose our uh our spot in heaven right we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling but we can't merit the grace of here in response to my uh thing from i i quoted i sent a citation from the joint declaration on the doctrine of in which it says that we cannot merit the grace of justification and he gatsu misunderstood or misread or for whatever reason he's confused and this is what he says yeah it agrees it doubles down on the link i sent you quote works merit the grace of justification no the text that i gave you from the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification says the opposite of that that we cannot merit the grace of justification we cannot marry that grace by works and we cannot even merit it by faith it's unmerited it's a free gift the grace of justification is a free gift it's otherwise it would not be called grace right gatsu goes on nonetheless after misinterpreting that uh very simple phrase he goes on to and distorting it for whatever reason he goes on to say catholics believe they have to earn salvation as opposed to salvation being brought bought and paid for them by jesus on the cross nothing to be further from the truth he doesn't understand the catholic doctrine so i shouldn't get uh any puts in quotes but catholics don't since you've confirmed two times that oh here he's saying he he told me at what time was it 8 p.m on the dot he told me at 8 pm on the dot oh i can't personally go on live i work i thought you're going to go live and we're going to communicate that way do i look stupid i mean maybe i do look stupid but i'm not that stupid i know what i proposed because you didn't want to talk on email it's too private you wanted to be a public discussion and i told you several times we can go on a live stream any weekend and i suggested what about tomorrow night friday night which is now right now 8pm we can go live and we can chat live on a video stream and he said oh yeah i'll try to do that whatever i mean maybe this guy is on call and he got called into work i don't but why not say that why just suddenly when it's exactly eight o'clock say oh i can't i can't personally go on live oh well what did you think the invitation was when i said if you don't want to do email because it's too private you want to go on a public discussion there's nothing more public i said there's nothing more public than chatting live discussing live on a video live stream on my channel there's nothing more public than that so are you willing and able to do that and he said oh yeah but there is no try there's just do you can do it you do it or you don't and if you have a valid excuse i'd like to hear it but coming right at eight o'clock on the dot and saying that oh i can't personally go on live i didn't know that's what you meant oh well i'm sorry to say but you're fibbing let's put it in a very polite he's responding now to some more of my reiteration of the same text that i keep giving him to explain the catholic nuanced position on justification and sanctification and faith and works and these are subtle nuanced ideas that need to be carefully examined and balanced right but i keep bringing his attention to these summary statements which are very clear they're designed to be very crystal clear the documents of trent and the document of the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification they were painstakingly put together to be crystal clear that's why i cited them time and time again to him anyway he responded here now that i read it more closely there's a contradiction quote works merit the grace of justification no that's not what the document says the joint declaration says the exact opposite of that you cannot merit the grace of and then he goes on to say none of those from quoting from my citation from the joint declaration he says none of those things that perceive justification meaning among other things faith and works as the two broadcast two broad categories but anything that we do even if it doesn't fall under those two broad categories of faith and works anything that we do nothing we can do nothing that we do nothing that we think or say or do preceding justification can merit the grace of justification nothing there's no song there's no dance there's no letter there's no poem there's nothing nothing that we can think say or do can ever merit the grace of justification which part of that don't you understand gatsu which part do you find complicated and he asks which one is it well it's it's your works merit meaning earn your salvation or your works don't proceed come before salvation you can do works before justification you could do works you could do works as an atheist you can have natural virtue as an atheist those are works and they merit they do not merit the grace of salvation but they do prepare the ground for the actual graces they don't merit the grace of justification but the prayer there are many stories of atheists who pray they reach out to god in desperation they reach out to god if you're there send me a sign tell me that right and some of these people get the grace and they cooperate with the grace now did they merit trent says no the catholic church says no that atheist was fortunate enough to receive the grace of justification and to cooperate with it everything is grace so you have the grace as an atheist to pray to reach out to god you have the grace of justification being offered to you you have the grace to say yes to that grace and then you have the grace to cooperate with all the other graces that come your way actual graces sanctifying grace and you participate in all these graces through a sort of cooperation you're sort of a secondary cause in this dance but god gets all the all of the credit and you get all of the blame that's how it works you do not get merit right when we speak of the merits of your works it's just as saint the when god rewards your your works he's just rewarding so there's no way out of this you have to understand the catholic doctrine that everything is grace there is no meriting the grace of justification but we can cooperate once we're justified we can cooperate in the sanctification that god is offering us but to make that sanctification sanctification real and to deepen our faith to grow in the faith and to not backslide in our faith we have to cooperate now we need grace even to cooperate even to begin to think that maybe it might be a good idea to begin being open to the possibility that maybe one day i will cooperate with grace you need a grace just for that you think about elapsed catholic who's thinking well i've been to the sacraments maybe i should go back to the sacraments that's a grace okay that disposition that little nagging doubt in the back of that lapsed catholics mind that's a grace everything is grace okay sin is not grace because sin is evil and evil has no substance evil is not a thing it's a way it's a way of falling away from grace right so everything to the extent that it is a thing and not just a way of being or a way of falling away from grace everything to the extent that it has ontological being substance moving on he reiterates i can't i'm at work why do i not believe him and then he says was very skeptical of his uh i asked him about lying if lying is okay or if it's you know what does the bible say what does king james say about lying since these people worship king james that's the infallible source king james is the infallible king who gave us the infallible canon of scripture and the infallible scriptures themselves in their perfect form right don't ask please don't ask which version of the kings james bible you're going to embarrass my friend gatsu here but just trust and believe that king james has the god-given authority to define the canon and to give the original version of all the biblical texts that's what kent hovind believes and that's in any case when i implied that perhaps gatsu should rethink his cheap excuses because it might be construed as lying he responded you know my post getting deleted is starting to make more sense well i didn't delete any of your posts i don't delete any i made a google meet he still hasn't shown up here i don't know what else to tell you i mean i could i should maybe what i should do because it got deleted i didn't delete it i don't know how it got deleted but everything i posted that was interesting got deleted including the council of trent i'm gonna pull that up now i mean this is just a really loose keep going with the messiness of it pull up and where am i what am i looking at my brain freezes as soon as i touch the mouse okay so i'm going to look for cannons and decrees of the council of trent wow who knew it was that easy i bought this today for for my how do i do that go to how do i go to this link chapter this is session six chapter 8 how the gratuitous justification of the when the apostle says that a man in case you can't follow me this is where i'm reading here okay so this is the council of trent sixth session chapter 8 when the apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the catholic church has held and expressed them namely that we are therefore said to be justified by faith because faith is the beginning of human salvation the foundation and root of all justification without which it is impossible to please god and to come to the fellowship of his sons and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously because none of those things that precede justification whether faith or works merit the grace of justification for if by grace it is not now by works otherwise as the none of those things that precede justification whether faith or works merit the grace of justification i think i may have said uh mistakenly i may have said earlier that um this citation came from the um joint declaration so um i apologize if that's if i misspoke if that's what i said earlier this is the citation from the council of trent which is all about justification okay giving a little shout out here to my did you make it private so gatsu can't see it no i did not it's public lol i've thought you have deleted some of my comments before never never why would i do that lord mozart 308 why would i do that to you my brother even though he refused to come on my live stream ha ha my old friend converse contender hey aren't we supposed to uh are we supposed to uh do another live stream together sometime soon congress contender i can't remember i like your content thumbs up thank you very much converse contender i like you i appreciate you uh listening this is a real ragtag session here because i was supposed to have a guest i don't have my guess my guest didn't show up what if they throw a party and no one uh lord mozart 308 says gatsu btfo i'm not sure what that means btfo buzz the f off i don't know what that means lord mozart through eight i'm too ugly to come on no you're not you're not ugly you're beautiful inside note i've never seen you but i'm just imagining that's how i picture you like uh who's that who's a handsome man i could uh compare you to uh nothing comes to mind but i'm sure you're a great looking guy okay so anyway back to the documents that i cited to my my frenemy gatsu other citation that i made which is the boom okay so let's first of all find it find a citation oh did i find it what is the keyword i um i'm trying to see if i can remember any of the here we go so it's 4.7 that's it 4.7 the good works of the justified here we go let's see what the joint declaration has i don't know if you if you're able to read this on the screen let me make the okay i'm going to read all of this i must be getting all my brain is so let's read the whole thing we confess this is the joint declaration i don't i don't even know where we are in this book but somewhere near the middle we confess together the catholics and the lutherans and many other protestant groups have signed on to this document since okay we confess together protestants and catholics that good works that is to say a christian life lived in faith hope and love these good works follow justification and are its fruits we confess together that good works follow justification and are its fruits when the justified live in christ and act in the grace they receive they bring forth in biblical terms good fruit since christians struggle against sin their entire lives this consequence of justification is also an obligation they must fulfill work out your salvation in fear and trembling thus both jesus and the apostolic scriptures admonish christians to bring forth the works of love hard to argue with this isn't it according to catholic understanding good works made possible by grace and the working of the holy spirit see that good works made possible by grace and the working of the holy spirit so according to the catholic understanding good works made possible by grace and the working of the holy spirit contribute to growth in grace so that the righteousness that comes from god is preserved and communion with christ is deepened okay this is the cooperation i'm talking about it's all grace but we cooperate we say yes and then more grace comes and we say yes to that and more grace comes and we say yes and more grace comes and then boom we're in heaven okay contrast that with the person that says no the grace comes and they say no or anything but yes and then more grace comes and they say no meaning anything but yes and then more graces come and they say no meaning anything but yes to grace because anything but yes to grace is a no to grace okay compare and contrast where does that person end up that person ends up burning in hell for all eternity okay so according to catholic understanding good works made possible by grace and the working of the holy spirit contribute to growth and grace so that the righteousness that comes from god is preserved and communion with christ is deepened when catholics affirm the quote-unquote meritorious character of good works they wish to say that according to the biblical witness a reward in heaven is promised to these works their intention is to emphasize the responsibility of persons for their actions not to contest the character of those works as gifts freely given or for less to deny that justification always remains the right so when catholics affirm the meritorious character of good works they wish to say that according to the biblical witness a reward in heaven is to the unmerited gift of grace that give the works right so we're emphasizing the responsibility of persons for their actions and we're not contesting the character of those and we are not trying to deny that justification always remains the unmerited gift of grace how how could they make this any then we have the lutheran perspective i won't read that but i will go and look at the sources i wonder if there's a way to jump to the sources how could i find the sources for this 4.7 here we go found it for what i just read you growth in grace perseverance in righteousness received from god and a deeper communion point one many antithesis could be overcome if the misleading word merit were simply to be viewed and thought about in connection with the true sense of the biblical term wage or i don't know what the reference is here given in parenthesis l v e 67 i'm sure i second point the lutheran confession stresses that the justified person is responsible not to lose the grace received but to live in it thus the confessions can speak of a preservation of grace and a growth in it if righteousness in canon 24 is understood in the sense that it affects human beings then it does not strike it does not strike us but if righteousness in canon 24 refers to the christian's acceptance by god it does strike us for this righteousness is always perfect compared with it the works of christians are only fruits and signs third point and final point in these sources concerning canon 26 we refer to the apology where eternal life is described as reward we grant that eternal life is a reward because it is something that is owed not because of our merits but because of the promise it's owed because of the promise not because of our merits but eternal life is a reward because it is something owed because of the promise not because of which fills scripture from genesis to revelation that promise fills the entire bible lord mozart 308 he died of a dmt overdose oh boy don't dabble with those nasty drugs people please it's demonic i know you're just joking around so this is very very powerful stuff this i i highly recommend if you're a protestant or if you're a catholic or if you're orthodox or if you're an atheist or whatever you are if you're interested in religion i recommend this document right let me go to the cover and see that's not a very fancy looking cover joint declaration on the doctrine of justification the lutheran world federation and the roman catholic church originally published in 1999 really seems late in history wow solemn confirmation of this joint declaration on 31st october 1999 in ausburg by means of the official common statement with its annex represents an ecumenical event of historical significance wow 1999 and the end of 99 that unbelievable i guess that is 21 odd years ago so i guess that uh that makes sense so we've got the preface we've got the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification the main work itself and you've got the official common statement uh how many pages is it is it location 2 of 360. i'm not sure how many actual pages this is but would it tell me it's pretty short you can see i've highlighted a bunch of stuff here there's a lot of good stuff in here i'm just reading sorry for the silence i'm in love with the church i hope you are falling in love with the church i hope that you want to be catholic i hope that you will educate yourself educate your conscience educate yourself about philosophy religion theology church history the saints ecclesiology morality everything i hope you're as excited as i am i will probably talk to you again tomorrow thanks for being here special shout out to lord mozart 308 and converse contender thanks for a fun little live chat there and uh for the rest of your listening thanks for listening and gutsu gatsu if you do end up watching this i love you i hope you go to heaven i hope you learned the error of your ways because you strayed from jesus christ and his church i have one simple question to ask you gatsu before i go you admit you must admit because your lord and savior king james teaches you in his infallible canon of scripture and in his infallible scriptures your lord and savior king james teaches you infallibly that jesus christ came to earth and he built a church so my question to you is where's the church where is the church where is the church it is october 1st 2021 where's the church god so where's the church show me where the church is show me where this church is if it's in if it's invisible then just give me the link to the website of the invisible church so that i can read all the doc documents of the essential saving truths of the church that jesus christ built where are the dogmas of the church that jesus christ built show me send me the link to the official website of the church that jesus christ built show me the link send me the link i want to read the documents of the infallible truths of god that are vouchsafed guarded and protected and interpreted infallibly by king james okay or whoever it is that runs this invisible church you belong to just show me where the church is send me the link and you might have a convert on your hands for the rest of you god bless hands for the rest of you god bless we'll talk soon thanks for being here

transcript2
These ReWatch transcripts are also generated automatically and are therefore sometimes improperly unformatted and replete with errors.