Catholic vs. Catholic - 2019-02-23 - Matthew Murdock

Author Recorded Saturday February 23rd, 2019

There are 45 episodes in the Versus:Catholic series.

Recorded September 13th, 2017

Catholic vs. Catholic - 2017-09-13 - Thomas

Matthew reached out via email back in February, and since that time we have grown close. In this first episode Matthew talks about his checkered past and asks a few questions about the Catholic faith. I can't wait to see how his exciting journey into Catholicism unfolds. • Support the CVS Podcast: • Be a guest on a livestream:

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These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
hello this is Matthew and you're listening to Catholic verses other tell us a little bit about yourself if you would please who you are what you believe and why you believe it well I grew up in a small town Carson City Nevada I was raised Catholic but I didn't really know any of the Catholic doctrine even though I went through the classes and stuff I don't know if that's common but they didn't really teach us the distinctives really it was very basic and so at an early age I got into music I was into like acid rock Jimi Hendrix when I was like a little kid then Guns and Roses and then started getting and uh you know harder music like Metallica and Pantera and all that and that music I remember was a turning point started I started to idolize these rock stars and you know they were long-haired doing drugs and partying and all that stuff my parents were very straight-laced you know Catholic people you know so I kind of started rebelling even then I would be sneaking in tapes that they had told me I'm not allowed to listen to and all that stuff and sneaking in magazines idolizing these people and just the evil aspect of it and the evil music I started getting too you know Marilyn Manson when he first came out and stuff like that just the kind of satanic music and so I started thinking well that looks like fun I started using drugs by the time I was about 12 years old meth and acid and all that you know twelve years old and my parents were very naive because they never experienced that growing up in a small town and all they didn't know that was you know becoming a full-blown drug addict runnin their nose as a child so um anyway so that made me feel confused some some weird sexual things happened to me when I was kid not liked by my parents or anything but and this is prior to drugs prior to anything else I remember I was a kid I was maybe 11 years old nice listening to too low I don't know if you know who that is it's his and they're buried anti Jesus stuff and I remember listening to in my room and just feeling this presence of Darkness come over me as a kid and I jumped up out of my bed and I was screaming and crying I didn't even know what was going on I couldn't tell my parents about it and I think something happened to me then you know like that music and like I told you something I also think that something happened to me when when some weird sexual stuff happened to me when I was a kid some demonic activity happening in my life and I can remember a few things like that happening that's when I really started getting into the dark side of things and being infatuated with that and I felt bad and I felt tainted anyways and I felt like if God is there I'm going to hell anyways because of the stuff that I'm into so I might as well go all the way and just rebel like I'll just be you know we're double worshipper or something you know but it ended up getting more serious as time went by so anyways and by the time I'm in high school maybe maybe sophomore year I'm a full-blown meth addict started injecting methamphetamines doing all sorts of you know sexual misconduct you know chasing girls and doing all that all that type of stuff and in the Satanic metal bands you know just making music and everything I'd write was just as terrible anti Jesus stuff and everyone thought you know we're cool when we were partying and it was all good and then the drugs bye-bye my senior year in high school had just completely destroyed me destroyed my life like you know my parents wouldn't have anything to do with me and I was just out there just I I think I don't know you know I look back and I doubt but I think there was a demonic presence in my life and I think maybe I was even possessed or something like that or maybe it was just the drugs I don't know but I know that God was pursuing me throughout that time because all these weird things would happen when I was just in the thick of it I remember this lady I'm just in Walmart in the middle of the night just strung out and this lady just comes and grabs me was like Jesus loves you no my god Lamia uh you know I had made myself hate Jesus and hate Christians and I hated God but just weird stuff like that would happen to me and I think he was trying to reach out to me but then fast forward a little bit and I'm homeless and strung out my dad takes me to the homeless shelter in Reno and I'm like I can't believe I'm here with all these losers these bums you know I like I thought I was better than them somehow you know but then I I wound up getting dropped over there have absolutely nothing I have no friends everyone's terrified of me because I'm you know I just turned into a ghoul you know I was I was just not a good dude so everyone was afraid of me none of my friends even my drug addict friends were like dude you can't hang out this anymore brah you gotta go you know I was tripping people out and I was just I felt so empty you know and I and I I just I was like I'm gonna kill myself or something's got to happen here so I like I knew that I was missing something spiritual but I did not want it to be Christianity so I was I looked into Taoism and Buddhism and then I had a Bible like three spiritual books or something and I'm sitting there coming off with drugs in the homeless shelter and I'm trying to get into these books on Taoism oh man I'm trying to find something in there and have the Bible off to the side I'm like it's not gonna do that check that out and then and it was just emptiness I didn't see anything in the the Taoist literature it just seemed it seemed ridiculous to me for whatever reason and so I go up to the front desk and I'm like I need to go to a rehab is there any rehab anywhere around that I can go to for free I got no money and they're like well you just happen to be right next door to one and it's free and it's called arena sparks gospel mission and I was like now you know I end up going over there so I got quote-unquote saved when I was in there because after a few weeks in there because you're going to these places you're going to church six days a week you know every morning you go to Chapel and you hear her sermon and then you go and work and then you come go sleep you just repeat that and after about three weeks I'm like fine God if you're real I can't remember I prayed some ridiculous stupid selfish prayers like gotta feel real make so such-and-such happened and then it did and I'm like okay that was coincidence you know do it again and he did it like three times in a row and it was some it was so stupid I can't remember what it was I know it was just ridiculous and it kept happening so I'm like fine I'll believe you know and so I next time at Chapel when they do like the thing you knows anybody want to come forward except Jesus Christ type of thing you know in the like the Pentecostal type places or whatever so I I just started I instantly started crying you know I felt him come over me like oh you know raise my hand and they prayed over me and stuff and then I picked up the Bible and I was just devouring it you know but I had no clue what I was looking at no clue what I was doing but I was just devouring the Bible and I loved it and I started to change for the better but after a few months I skipped out of that place I went back to drugs for years but then I considered myself a Christian but then when I got out you know started working I was living with the girls I wasn't married to was going to church and you know it's doing a lot of weird stuffs that I had no real conviction it's like I didn't know it was wrong I'm like well I'm not shooting up meth anymore son I must be fine you know like anyway so I led you know I got clean for a little while went back to drugs and kept cycling into that until I got into drugs so deeply again that I basically became an atheist again because when I started doing the drugs it brought up all that old stuff and I just was in rebellion against invincible and talking other people who believed in God out of it you know like just confusing him we're both losers were both duh you know so I don't know if I was ever a true Christian if I could have turned around and just spit in God's face that way I have no idea and then after that I wind up at the gospel mission again and I'm in the same bed the same bunk and there's like a hundred bucks I'm in that same bunk of where I bailed out last time like years before and I'm like do I'm right back to square one cuz ya cuz I woke up in jail and I was like this is before I went to the second time I woke up in jail and I'm like I got I got clean cuz I was in jail and I was like wait a minute I'm supposed to be a Christian or something right I was like what I was like someone gave me a Bible and it took me like three weeks in jail just to get a hold of a Bible Mike come on give me a Bible I give me a Bible because it's like I'd so closed my heart off to all all of that stuff thing I forgot I totally forgot about it I was just I don't know is crazy so I pick up the Bible and I was just like oh and it just felt so great just to devour it and I thought oh I'm gonna get my act together this time and I get out of jail and I'm out of jail for like not even 24 hours and I called my old buddy to say bye Mike I'm gonna go to rehab again going back to the mission and they're like where are you lookin for some dope I'm like yeah I'm lookin so I wouldn't got high again it was terrible so now I wind up in the mission again same bunk that I was before and I just felt like God was like you're gonna start over again so anyways so I make it like halfway through the program and I feel like you know and I had my daughter was actually taken away from me when she was about five months old because my my drug addiction we got busted and stuff like that so my parents had my daughter with them and they were visiting me and I just wanted to go take care of her or whatever so I bailed out on the program again and got with my daughter's mom we moved out of town to Bishop California which is Way just middle of nowhere and I thought I was gonna start our lives over and then get custody of our daughter and all that but it didn't work out of course we went back on drugs and I've spent a year out there and I got back into shooting up drugs and I felt a spiritual presence I just felt this weight on me like oh it's like you're going to hell you're going to die and you're gonna go to hell this is what you've chosen you know and I was just freaking out but I kept getting high every day and it kept getting worse and worse and I just felt like I was just being suffocated it was crazy so finally I broke and I like started running into all of these churches that were out there there's a few of them you know like I don't know not quite Pentecostal but kind of I don't know just your average nondenominational church there was a Calvary Chapel out there I went to this other one and I was just crying out to these people like look I'm going to hell I need help I'm living in sin I know I'm going to hell and they're like oh don't worry brother you're not going to hell don't think that way cheer up you know and then didn't help me didn't didn't offer me any help didn't tell me the gospel didn't do anything there's oh no you're good let's pray on you and they did some weird prayer circle thing and it was just it was a joke you know and I was like okay I'm just gonna go to hell then I'm gonna just resign myself to this lifestyle and that's it I can't I can't stop doing what I'm doing and I'm done you know so then I kind of just resigned to that for a little while and then I got fired from my job and I was gonna go get my my unemployment at the public library over there using their computer and and I'm just depressed and just a black hole you know resigned to okay I'm just gonna live a miserable life and just die and I'm going to hell I know it nothing I can do about it screw it and then some guy just randomly quotes a Bible verse to the librarian for whatever reason so I jump up and grab a hold of them like I need help man he's like are you on drugs I'm like yes he's just like well why don't you come to this Bible study we're having tonight and come talk to some people I was like fine I'll do anything I don't care you know and I feel like that was a total divine appointment but it was crazy it's just right in front of everyone than this little library is just staring at me I'm just making a scene you know I'm like I don't care so I show up at this Bible study at this Calvary Chapel and it's like a bunch of Old Farmer's going through some book you know like a Bible study guide thing they're just probably meet every Tuesday or something drink coffee and go through some Bible stuff and and they have never seen a deed like me come in they're just all whacked out you know so that deed brought me in and I totally disrupted their whole little deal they had going on but they're really nice and they just they just took me in there and they prayed for me and one of the old guys was just like hey if you need me you give me a call tonight and I've heard that as a drug addict a million times you never call you know you go do all the drugs you have and then you call new twenty bucks man or something like that you know so I was just like yeah whatever and then one of the other guys grabbed me he's just like God's gonna deliver you tonight and I'm just like I'm like no he's not I have dope at home I'm gonna go home I'm gonna get high tomorrow's gonna be the same as yesterday and repeat die hell so then I went home look at my bad a big old bag of drugs sitting there all nice and neat just ready for me and I couldn't touch it for whatever reason you know I was just pacing back and forth back and forth until I kill Evan or 12:00 at night and I'm like what's wrong with me so I called the old man he comes out and picks me up and I just met him that night he does not this dude has no idea who I am I know and I was totally a weirdo just whack out just you know so I can only imagine what it looked like to him and he came and got me I gave him my needles my drugs and stuff and and he took my my meth and dumped it out and prayed for me and then from that night on this was seven and a half years ago I haven't had one craving for drugs meth marijuana anything since that day and my life really turned around from that point then I had to leave my daughter's mom out there and Bishop because she was still running around doing her thing getting high and I was like I was totally transformed and she was just like what's wrong with you I'm like I got to get out of here so I come back to Carson City talked to my parents I moved in with someone got a job and started going to church started at like these people who I'd had run-ins with before this church that was like a very charismatic type of church I got plugged in with them started rebuilding my life I met my wife over the internet cuz my wife when I was at the gospel mission she was volunteering there and I was living there and I worked in the kitchen and you know churches will come in and like fill in and come and feed the homeless because it's it's a homeless rehab you know it's a gospel mission we knew each other in high school well it didn't know each other but we we went to high school together and we knew of each other and so she saw me and she's like oh how long have you been a Kris you know leave here like well I live here you know anyway so there's like a spark there but I felt like such a loser like and she was just a sprite shouting perfect like little Christian girl you know I'm like no way anyone like that would ever have anything to do with me so I left and went back with baby's mama and all that stuff but I contacted her when I came back I found her on Facebook and we hooked up and we got married like three months later cuz we were keeping it holy you know and all that so we got my daughter back you know she was three years old at that at that point so that's and I've had we've had my daughter with us since then she's now 10 so about seven years so and all of that but I mean I bounced around from I was in the charismatic circles that were like in like this speaking in tongues type of stuff Christianity is I had no idea you know so I've kind of like faked it and oh yeah I'm speaking you know do all that weird stuff people prophesy over each other and their prophecies were always wrong but like they didn't care so um I kind of got disillusioned with that after I cuz I'm like well is there something wrong with me am I just not a real Christian if I don't feel the Holy Spirit making me do this stuff or and you know it was just weird so I thought well maybe I'm weird but then my wife she was more she went to like a Calvary Chapel which is a non-denominational dispensationalist they were more conservative than you know the the real whack II charismatic place that I was at so that seemed a little more safe or whatever so I started moving more toward the conservative side which was all right you know but then I was all about dispensationalism all about the end times and they teach you to interpret the Bible in such a way that everything is about end times all the old prophecies are about us now and everything and you get into this tailspin and you're like oh man it's open anytime you know and Israel every time anything happens with Israel Oh get ready man we're going Jesus is coming back and then that started getting weird to me because then I'm reading the Bible a lot myself like I'm poor into it and I'm not seeing what they're saying once I because they they can cherry-pick verses that make it sound like what they're saying and make kind of like a Frankenstein systematic theology out of the Bible and take stuff out of context but so I started feeling well I'm not seeing this stuff anymore in the Bible maybe I'm not a Christian you know I always feel that because they make you feel like that way and if you question it then you're deceived or something you know but anyways so then I left that went to like the hardcore Puritan Calvinist Augustinian churches that are cessationist they're like now we don't believe in the all those guys are a bunch of fools they don't have the spirit you know because they're kind of against the charismatic guys and I kind of like that they're more intellectual reformed Christianity and then you know I started seeing a bunch of holes in their systematic theology and how they talk about how they're interpreting the Bible I I found out that they're doing the same thing that the rapture guys are doing that the charismatic SAR doing that they all have these these filters that they're looking through the Bible with and they're kind of twisting it to fit their mold but there's all these other passages that you could easily counteract them with they could totally contradict it but they just ignore all of that stuff it's like confirmation bias like you only focus on the things that back up your point and completely disregard everything else so then I found that out in all of these different camps so I've gone from here to there my wife I'm driving her crazy because I get so involved in these systems and I love it and I'm all about it's all about this and I'm just driving or nothing I'm debating everybody I'm just crazy you know just hit and I was doing that for all those other positions too and I totally flip-flop and go to the opposite opposite side and people I'm a weirdo I guess I don't know cuz I'm looking for the truth and I just see holes and all these guys things and it's like what Who am I I'm an idiot I don't know anything but I know enough to say I've read the Bible through and through now a lot and I'm just like what they are saying doesn't line up like so I just don't know where to go so now I've been struggling with holiness because I had that maduk conversion that that crazy experience of like a life-transforming thing right but I still have struggled with anger I've had I'm an angry guy I'm angry I mean to my my kids like I don't have patience with them I should say my wife I'm I mean I'm selfish and all of these things are becoming more clear to me now and I feel like I'm getting worse I'm wait I'm worse now than when I was that experience happened and and when I go to get counsel from people that I just read your Bible and pray read your Bible and pray I'm reading my Bible every day I've I'm in it all right I'm in it and I was pouring myself out in prayer and nothing's getting better nothing's changing you know and now I'm just like I don't know where to go to get answers because everyone's like oh we have the answers over here those guys are idiots don't listen to them you know and I don't know I don't know what's supposed to happen and and I and I'm sinning and I'm giving in to it you know cussing swearing I work in construction so I used to be the guy that stood out like a sore thumb getting made fun of because they'd start talking about sexual stuff and I just back out of the room you know you square and stuff but now it's like I don't even care it doesn't bother me I'm just blowing it dude like and I don't know what to do and I can't get a satisfying answer and and and I started doubting in Christianity altogether because I'm like if nobody agrees on anything and everyone says oh we have the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit says he's gonna lead and guide us into the truth I'm like well how come well where's the truth that then how come nobody agrees if we all have the same spirit he can't contradict himself if what I'm talking about who the Holy Spirit is and all of this stuff is right then it makes no sense that all these guys have these completely contrary opinions and no one's getting along and there's all this disunity when when Paul says as maturity is unity like he we're supposed I think God hates the divisive miss you know what I mean it's bad and so I don't know so I'm just totally confused and I almost lost my faith completely because I'm like well maybe the whole thing's screwed up so I started listening to these atheists online because when I was a Calvinist I'd listen to a thousand Calvinist debates in like on the Calvinist side like yeah stomp that guy it's not that stupid dispensationalist I was listening to James like yeah stomp the Catholic guy you know but then when I started actually listening to the other side I like they have a point actually you know they're not just these because we like to paint the other the opposition black and say oh they're idiots and then just start taking them out but you know I start listening to the other side I'm like and there they are making just as much sense as as we are and they think they're following the word they think that they're following Christ and stuff so I'm like uh so how can I say just cuz just whatever side I happen to be honest the right one all the time you know yeah I'd love to think that but you know the more I learn it's like probably not you know yeah I see a very simple process coming to what I consider the one true church the Holy Roman Catholic Church I see it as a very simple three-step process your first step is monotheism and once you arrive there there are really only three choices Judaism Christianity and Islam and so we can use history to determine that Christianity is true I mean we can just look at the competing accounts of who was the person of Jesus Christ who was he because Judaism Christianity and Islam all have a story about who Jesus Christ was and it's not that tricky when you look at it objectively to figure out that Christianity is the true form of monotheism and then once you're in Christianity the only final step to Catholicism is the question of authority where did the Bible come from how do we know which books are in the Bible so it's a really quick and easy three-step process to get to the one true church but that's from the comfort of my position within Catholicism obviously for someone that's struggling spiritually it's not going to look as clean and simple as it looks from my privileged perspective right right and that's what's attractive to me because what I'm seeing is everyone taking some kind of a position some systematic theology where they've making the word and they chop it up to fit a certain idea what you can do and you can be very convincing and make very convincing arguments and that's what I've been and I've been totally sold out to one and then totally sold out to the one on the opposite side so I know that you can take the exact same passage even and twist it any way you want so I'm yearning for authority it is a dogma of the church that the church and Jesus Christ are one this is why I don't feel like on shaky ground all throughout the history of the church the Saints have been saying things like if and when Jesus Christ can wobble then the church can wobble because the church and Christ are one the Church of Christ is the Bride of Christ and all of the merits are imposed by Jesus Christ it's the merits of Jesus Christ that we are boasting about in the Catholic Church there's nothing that we have to bring to Jesus it's everything that Jesus gives to us the church right so we want to make a very clear distinction between God and the church that he founded that Jesus Christ founded while he was on earth we are nothing and he is everything so there's a real security that we have in the Catholic Church those of us who understand the faith who know the faith and it is an obligation on every human whether you're Catholic or not to discover the truth to discover the church and to join the church it's like I always say with Noah's Ark because I'm a simple-minded person I always simplify everything and I see the church as all the Church Fathers did as that Ark that boat that will save us from the coming flood and it's a simple image it's one that everyone can understand and you just you just want to get in right that's it yeah I love when you put it that way you're like get on the ark yeah I want to get on the sacrament of confession have you ever done it I did it one time because you know when you get confirmed and then you do your confession so I did it once when I was I don't know I don't know what grade I was a little kid so you know just lie to the guy you know you have some bishop came in and because I think the church I was that was kind of like a weak Catholic Church because like I said I didn't know any of the Catholic doctrine until I grew up and became a Protestant and heard the Protestant guys bashing the Catholic stuff I'm like the Catholic Church really please I didn't they never told me any of it there wasn't a confession booth where we were at it wasn't a thing like nobody did that I don't know I don't know I didn't I didn't so I've gone to confession one time when I was a little kid so I was it was a joke so I'm this guy Ernie that I worked with he's like some 73 year old plumber and he's a Catholic guy and he and he's just he's a godly man like you don't he doesn't he wouldn't even talk about it himself but I started prying into him you know because when I work with people I always want to try and get to a spiritual conversation somehow but then it comes out that he's a believer and stuff like that and when you're around him he never says a negative thing about anybody and our trade you know how the trade is we're a bunch of gossips it's a sewing circle can you believe he screwed the little it's it's it's pathetic it's it's backbiting it's slander you know and that's one of those things that Paul says if you're a slanderer you're not gonna inherit the kingdom of God but anyways you'll never hear anything negative out of this guy's mouth and stuff but he and he was telling me about how he how he face that he goes to confession every week I want to do that it sounded attractive so I'm seeing as I was baptized into the church as an infant and then I was confirmed do you think that even though I strayed away am i still in it am I still good yeah yeah you just need to prepare yourself I recommend you talk to a priest and tell him your situation and I think your friend at work there he could probably point you in the right direction because it sounds like he's on a pretty good path yeah and he's good but he's the same way like and a lot of Catholics that I know and my parents are the same way they don't know anything about Catholicism I want to make sure that they understand that they've repented they believed in Christ that they're whatever because that's how I've been taught that you're in the body of Christ is if you believe and repent and then you follow Christ and he's like oh yeah yeah I do well okay I can't argue with that then and he obviously is but then I asked him about Catholic stuff and he's like no I just go he just goes and does this thing you know he and my parents they don't know any of the stuff you know it's just they just go they say what they're supposed to say and then they leave and I don't understand that because the Catholic they're not encouraged to go home and read their Bibles it's not what they are encouraged to but are they yeah I mean there is an obligation from the church for us to know the Bible for us to study the Bible for us to know the church to know the doctrines we do have an obligation it's just that most people are too busy or they can't be bothered or they don't feel like they have the intellectual capacity yeah so you know we are obliged by the church and the church is Jesus Christ that's right that's really good to know because you know what I was kind of taught what obviously been myth busted now was like oh they don't want you to read the Bible cuz and you'll know that they're lying to you cuz you see like the transubstantiation thing I was never taught that I didn't even know what that was when and I was catechized and went to catechism I went to CCD I did the whole thing and I never heard of transubstantiation until I was know went to Protestant churches and they were bashing it you know what I mean so I don't know why they never taught me or maybe they did teach me I was just stupid I was drawn pictures so what I've been taught is that it's a symbolic representation that and from what I read in the Bible myself that was Jesus the new covenant meal right he said this is a covenant my blood and if you look all the way back from covenants from Abraham just covenant meant blood they were gonna slice an animal in half split it in two you walked in between and you said if I break this covenant let what happened to these animals happen to me right that was what a covenant wasn't then you'd make your vows and then you'd you'd shake hands with the blood it was kind of like a little blood oath scenario so and then Jesus saying I'm the Lamb of this covenant and this is the new covenant in my blood in my body and if you don't eat my body and drink my flesh I get he does say that that and you don't have any part in me and so I thought it's a symbolic representation of that and we partake in that meal as a remembrance as and as a memorial to to Jesus that we're part of the Covenant because we're in his body right so that's pretty much how I see it so what do you say because I because you guys believe that it actually turns into the body of Christ somehow well explain that dude it's a mystery of the faith we have to have faith like when I go to church and I see the priest holding up Jesus Christ in his hands I know that it looks like a piece of bread and when I partake of it I know that it feels and tastes like bread and so I'm not stupid but the central question is Authority if you're convinced that the Catholic Church is what the Catholic Church claims to be meaning that it is the mystical body of the Godman Jesus Christ then yeah having faith that what looks like a wafer of bread is actually the body blood soul and divinity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ you don't have a problem believing it and you know don't knock it till you've tried it and don't knock it till you've tried it with sincere faith and to have sincere faith of course you're gonna have to find a good priest brush up a little bit on education right and how about in my understanding of these things if I don't understand but I still go in faith and I know that somehow say my understanding isn't 100% clear as to like what you're saying like I don't understand transubstantiation you never you're not supposed to understand it you're just supposed to believe it you know there are wonderful theological works that talk about the mystery of the Eucharist and you can learn a lot you can expose yourself to a lot of imagery and a lot of speculation about the mystery of the Incarnation the mystery of the Trinity the mystery of the Eucharist you can read about those sorts of things what the Saints have said and so on and so forth but you're not going to understand it you're not going to completely comprehend it and that's good and that's what I want to know because we can get all twisted up and all of these distinctions and and I think it's good I look I love debating I love getting digging deep but I got so deep in a lot of the stuff that made me so confuse I didn't know which way I'm going and I was losing my faith because of it and it's like am i and like I love what you said that God's not a bunch of propositions that we actually asked to and that's what I had made him to be because it was like in the churches I was going to it was just well all you have to do is believe XY and Z exactly in this way and you're in but if you question it or have any doubts or don't understand it then you're out sorry yeah the the core of our faith is very very simple it's Jesus Christ who's the second person in the Trinity God loves you God suffered and died for your sins you turn away from your sin you turn back to God that's it yeah it's easy and it's a person right yeah it's a family and it's a person we can know yeah we're members of that body oh man that's good stuff I want to be in their round well you're in I mean you're basically in it's just a question of like I said just prepare a little bit meet a good priest and I'm gonna check it out the idea of the Magisterium is very attractive to me because there's so much wishy-washy stuff people twisting scripture in whatever way and making a case and they can make a good argument but the Eastern Church from what I understand is older right no no okay so because this is my understanding that it started somewhere in the past and then there was a split because of a disagreement of what Pope was gonna come to power or whatever so then the Roman Catholic side splintered off and the Eastern Orthodox just stayed the same this entire time is that true or no no not at all one thing I do recommend that you look into for the sake of the Eucharist for the sake of Mary and for the sake of the apostasy of the church meaning that the church is one Holy Catholic and apostolic get a Catholic book about the early church fathers it will include all the references to the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist it will include references to the Bishop of Rome being the preeminent authority and you'll see that the early church is a Catholic Church there's one arc and there's one visible head of the church Jesus Christ obviously and when Jesus Christ ascended he said it's better for me that I go because if I don't go I can't send you the helper right and the helper is the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit inhabits the church the one church and he did give the keys to Peter and he's the gatekeeper the doorkeeper into the Ark so I don't we can dispense with that all right so okay so the eastern thing okay cool if we look at the the authority then you know when we look because I have looked into the early church fathers and it seems like a lot of them didn't really agree on everything that's why how all the councils and they had all the stuff like Augustine was great but Augustine kind of won the day but he had other guys who were coming against him who had a big following who were I assume Holy Spirit filled guys who were also really smart and really knew the Scriptures just as well but they had a different take on it that there was the the Arian they called the Arian heresy and all these condemned mercies but there's a bunch of them so why do you think there's all those splits back then is it just the same as now it's always the same it's a big mess we're in a fallen world and we're selfish and we're stupid and it really does require faith to see the golden thread going back from Pope Francis all the way to Saint Peter and Jesus Christ it does require faith if you don't have the faith you're just gonna think this is just a big dumb greedy institution that's raping children and wasting everyone's time and money you know that's how the Catholic Church is seen by most people even a lot of people that call themselves Catholic say well I believe in God but I don't believe in the church they're kind of missing the point that Jesus Christ set this up to be a visible Church with the sacraments and these people yes they're sinners yes the Pope is a sinner but he's got a very important role to play here on planet earth he's protected from teaching err concerning faith in morals that's kind of a big deal so what are the questions you got for me okay all right so Peter first Pope I understand it I get what you're saying I've read the scriptures enough could know in the Protestant way of explaining like when he says your name is Peter and on this rock I'm going to build my church they'll say okay so he says Peter which means Rock but then when he says on this rock he's talking about the gospel it's like hey what you know that doesn't make any sense but there's a lot of things that you just accept it because that's what the Bible teaches this guy's up there on the podium who knows Greek and Hebrew so he knows better than I do so I'm just gonna have to accept it but I've had a problem with that so I understand okay Peter has the keys of kingdom and then that really weird thing where he's like I gave you guys the power to forgive sins I'm like what and whatever you bind in heaven will be bound on earth that because I know what that means - you can make rules and they can even if they're capable of blowing it or maybe being too stringent here or kind of missing it there he still gave them authority to set it up and our job is to submit the bat as unto Christ exactly that's exactly right oh I like that because the other way of understanding it I can't accept because it's like it's a hundred percent infallible they can't make any mistakes like the human error and you just take it as though it is Christ it's like I can't accept that because they're sinful men and you can see them blowing it and making mistakes that's a huge problem yeah yeah yeah I always liked the idea of Pope Francis for example making a mistake and passing it down through the hierarchy and it's a mistake it's wrong but everyone has to bow to it because he's given the authority and it's not an infallible decision that he made it's a fallible a very fallible one it's a decision where he was wrong and I bowed to that I bow to that mistake that he made that to me is the most exciting part of being Catholic is that I am humbling myself to a man who is wrong but what I'm doing is I'm paying homage to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and there's nothing more flattering it's just like the wife like our wives are supposed to submit unto us even when we're being idiots even when we're not obeying the word the unbelieving husband will be won by the chaste quiet submissive conduct of his wife even when we're an idiot or were an unbeliever that's awesome you see the connection there maybe yeah yeah I got chills I that's amazing right there I love it alright so the Pope thing and that really clears up a lot for me I can accept that what you just said what that was golden right there and I've never heard anybody say it quite that way okay so Mary yeah if I'm praying to Mary who was a dead human being and say hey Mary could you maybe help me you know find my car because I've heard my parents friends say oh man st. whatever is bet in a thousand for me I prayed find my car keys and I find him every time I'm like hey like are you kidding like and they're serious I guess I don't know but isn't that divination like isn't that like conjuring a dead spirit no no there's a key concept that you haven't encountered they certainly haven't understood yet which is the communion of saints this is a key concept that you're gonna have to read about think about it's the communion of the saints the same way that we have a communion with Jesus Christ and with God the Father Son and Holy Ghost we do have a communion with each other here on the horizontal plane like I have a communion with you we're spiritually connected my guardian angel and your guardian angel hang out they hang out okay and it's the same thing on the vertical dimension we need to think about that other kingdom and that other Kingdom is alive it's thriving there are like Jesus said if I wanted I have hosts of angels that could come and fight my battles for me if I wanted to but my kingdom is not of this world so we need to be like Christ in that way we are pilgrims here we're in a fallen world we are coming from paradise but we're going back to paradise and in the meantime we need to be aware of that and not to be shy and superstitious about it now can you turn something wholesome into something superstitious of course you can you can turn God into a vending machine but we need to just be like little children and have that trusting relationship and realize that there's more you know there's much more to this life than just this worldly part and be like Christ in that way awesome I like you mentioned the image earlier about Christ being the head and we are the body yeah Mary is the neck so everything from the head flows through the neck so it's an image that you should meditate on and think about and read the early church fathers talking about the role of Mary as the neck in the mystical body of Christ it's just something I thought I'd leave you with no yeah I love that but when Jesus was out preaching and they're like Jesus your mother and your brothers are out there and he is just like who's my mother and who's my brothers and he looked out at the crowd and he said anyone who does the will of my father here is my mother and here are my brothers he didn't venerate her a lot like in his ministry I don't see him ever doing that yeah she's very quiet she's very humble and in that very scene that you just talked about there the irony of the Protestant reading of that is Mary is the one that does the will of the Father most out of any human that ever lived any human that's not divine you should always remember that the Bible is full of stumbling stones that are there to allow those to stumble that want to stumble once you are inside the church meaning that you have committed to the understanding that it is the mystical body of Jesus Christ you will see all of those passages in a very different way and in a way that is clean and refreshing it all hangs together as a peace and there's no chopping up of the Bible it all hangs together the support from Mary right from Genesis through revelation you're gonna see all of the support for Mary it's very subtle but it's always there and when you can see it through a Catholic lens I think you're gonna change your perspective on that passage on all the passages that have to do with Mary or the Queen Mother in the Old Testament or the woman in Genesis and the woman in the sky and revelation and everything in between oh man that's good stuff well thank you so much man I mean this has been and I have I have a kind of stuff still I'd love to talk with you again we'll do part two yeah part two but um at the end of my employees you know what I do I ask my guests to give a little positive message of hope so what do you think you might be able to say to anyone that's out there listening now if you fall into the doubt and spiritual depression keep seeking Christ and just if you get confused just relax in the simplicity of the gospel and and that that this whole thing is a relationship with a person who loves you so just fall back on that that's it all you got to do all you got to do is all you got to do is