good morning Catholic versus Catholic my name is Taylor cyril and you're listening to catholic vs. catholics so just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself if you would please who you are what you believe and how you came to believe it so my name is Taylor's role I am a full-time missionary in Central Texas with a blazed ministries working in youth ministry as I have been doing for the last ten years or so also in my spare time I am the founder of fort a Catholic fo RTE catholic forte meaning loud which being loud is one of the few things that I'm very very good at and there I have a podcast called force a Catholic I travel the country speak and lead worship that's who I am I'm a husband of one a father of three got a five-year-old I just started kindergarten I've got a three-year-old who wants to be in school but isn't and I've got a ten month old that doesn't want anything because she's not smart enough to have desires speaking of youngsters can you just talk about some of the earliest impressions you had of God and religion please oh absolutely so right when you said first memory I immediately thought of my actual first memory it wasn't in church or anything but I got a juice box from my neighbor that's actually my first memory ever and it wasn't that a church or anything but I think it was a very spiritual moment I was so blissful that I'm pretty sure that's what heaven feels like the less than two-year-old me drinking a free juice I mean if that's not heavenly I don't know what is but that's a great question because I don't I see what is my first memory was in a church I remember being bored a lot there's a young child I remember going to CCE and not enjoying it those are probably my first experiences in the church that I remember what about the earliest point in time where you said to yourself I choose to believe in this God that everyone's talking about do you remember accepting the faith as a really young person I do I do remember that moment because yeah I was grew up in the church it was sighs Catholic my parents took me to Mass every week I was in CC bored out of my mind with both of them until junior high and then I started going to a nondenominational church that had just opened up across the city and my mom made a deal with me and she said hey I'll take you to that church but you have to go to Mass with me in the morning first and I was like okay fine she's like it's at 8 a.m. and I was like uh-uh because she knows I hate waking up early so in all of her brilliance she wanted to see how much I actually wanted to go over there and to her surprise I believe I I went with her to 8 a.m. mass she brought me over to the non-denominational Church for their service later in the morning and it was there that I really I think had my first experience with Christ I really encountered him in the community that they had at this non-denominational Church as a bunch of young people who are actually excited about their faith the music was amazing the preaching was amazing and I truly encountered Christ in the scriptures there and that was the first time that I really started caring about my faith in a real way and then the summer after my eighth grade year was when like everything changed I went to a student values conference right before I went to high school and I realized that okay this Jesus that I've learned about my entire life I have a list knowledge from the Catholic Church I have this experience of him in community and in the scriptures that Jesus is present in the Eucharist that was my first real experience in the Catholic Church of being like one with Christ and like truly giving my life to Christ there at that moment on my knees and a stadium with 3,500 other teams in it I'd like you to talk without getting too personal of course but I'd like you to talk about your family your parents your grandparents your siblings and just sort of the ups and downs of family life in relation to this whole Catholic or religious experience yeah so it's a mix all across the board I have some atheists in my family I have some diehard Catholics in my family I have some diehard Protestants in my family and I have a lot of cultural Catholics so a lot of the generations before really got a disservice from the church where it was all about knowledge and memorization there was no connection to the why or what why should this mean anything to me and I think that's what my parents experienced growing up that's what my grandparents experienced growing up it was all just hey you go to Mass because that's a requirement and that's about it you know and that was that's kind of the most prevalent thing in my family and my mom was a huge catalyst in my spiritual life so she was very very very Christian grew up Catholic went to Catholic school very Christian very holy likes prayed for me like she is the only reason that I think I'm anywhere near being a decent person because my mom continues to pray for me and has since day one and when I had my conversion within the Catholic Church she had to stay one step ahead of me because she was in a lot of Bible studies truly loved Jesus truly was into her prayer was like okay I need to get more into this whole Catholic thing and I really started diving into that so it was kind of cool that we got to do that journey together she always stayed a few steps ahead of me in that department but she was one of the biggest catalysts in and reasons for me being any part of a spiritual life her faith and what about emphasis like some people are into the charismatic movement some people are into Opus Dei some people have a very Marian type of devotion I think that's common I think that's ubiquitous the Marian devotion but some people shy away from Mary even within the Catholic Church I think that's exceptional though but can you just talk about the flavor was there any particular flavor that you were drawn to yeah so the two big things for me in high school and and even in junior high were community praise and worship in the scriptures those were the big things that really spoke to me and have formed me at a young age and continue to be three of the biggest parts of the face for me now our youth group was a amazing community of young people so many people striving to live for Christ and going to us we lived in a small town so we lived we all went to a public school so trying to figure all that out how do we live out our faith in a public school setting how do we live out our faith in our sports and all these kinds of things and we as a community did some good things and then we all struggled as we all do and but praise and worship was a huge deal I started loving praise and worship at the nondenominational church it became a big deal in our youth group after we started going to the Steubenville youth conferences and that's just I mean that's been a huge part of my life ever since because now I'm a worship leader and travel around and and help lead people in prayer through music as well and it's interesting that you mentioned the Marian thing because that is one of the ones that I've always kind of struggled with it's it's one of us I absolutely agree with what the church says but the rosary for me personally I get bored by the rosary it's just not the thing for me I'd rather be doing a Bible study I'd rather be doing lectio divina something like that with the scriptures that's just what speaks to me more so I made a deal with Mary when I was in college I was like mama I can't do this rosary saying all it does is put me to sleep but I want to like you know show my love for you and and to ask you to pray for me what are we gonna do and that week I think was that week or that month for the first time in my life in college I heard the Angelus prayed and I said ha this is it so every day at noon for since college probably 10 years now I've been saying the Angelus and that is my little Marian devotion every day at noon takes about a minute that's where me and Mary are at I'm someone that fell away really hard and fast I've aged 14 and I didn't come back for 25 years most people don't have that big of a break but I just want you to talk even if it was for five minutes your darkest moments I want you to talk about what that was like for you as a cradle Catholic yeah so the the thing right after I went to that Stephens it's like okay everything in my life is for Jesus now I was throwing away all of my like secular music break the CDs throw them away get everything that's bad out of here and that lasts for about three weeks you know yeah I think a lot of people who have had experience with Christ especially at that young age in junior high or high school have had that same experience like everything's changing now I started going like all for God but all throughout high school and even into college like essentially what I was doing was living to lunch I was youth group kid I was the kid helping out with music helping out with retreats like retreat junky going to all the conference's that's like what I was on Sunday and like maybe like four days out of the week but still struggling with sexual sin still struggling with pride still struggling with like not putting God first at all like sports was my number one I was an athlete from the age of five I was a for sport athlete in high school I'd ran track in college like sports was what I was all about and all of that stuff it's like if I had the choice at the time to work out to get better my sport or to pray like I was going to work out like that was the whole first commandment no other guys before me I absolutely had them so all throughout those times just absolutely struggling kind of behind the scenes right like in the light I looked like I was a good you know practicing Catholic and I really was striving for that but there were so many dark days amidst all of this time where I'd be you know struggling with porn or struggling with girls or I had a girl that I was dating one time we were hanging out just the two of us and she looked me in the eye after we did some things we shouldn't have and she said you know what I like about you you're one person at church and one person with me and I said oh no and I broke up with her and I never talked to her I was just like that was a huge realization for me it's like she's right like I can't be a split person I have to be one person I have to like I have to make a choice which one am I gonna be and thank God because my mom is prayers I picked the following Christ you mentioned earlier this sort of dichotomy between knowledge and experience and how Catholicism was maybe a little bit too cerebral and the nondenominational ISM was very experiential can you talk from your own experience what have you learned what have you learned from the Protestants what have you learned from the Catholics and how do you bridge that gap yeah I think we bridged the gap with looking at the example of Jesus I mean Jesus absolutely was balint in a - you know he had his Sermon on the Mount he had the John 6 he has these great teaching moments but he is involved intimately in the lives of his followers involved intimately in the lives of the people he's healing involved intimately in the lives of the pharisees and sadducees who follow him around and get berated by our lord I mean I love his interactions with the Pharisees and Sadducees but I think what the what the Catholic Church did for me like my home parish and I think that this is systemic throughout at least all of America and throughout many many years in the past is that like Catholic Church wants to impart this knowledge in part the fluence of truth in part the teachings of the church into people with really struggling to make it okay what does this mean for my last what did it mean for me as a young man with my struggle with girls with my struggle with pride like I learned all these things but how does this connect much how do we share that in a way that's connecting to our real life I think it's it's interfaith communities like in discussion groups in small group systems I have like I'm in a men's Bible study with other the guys my age we break open the scriptures we talked about the scriptures for like 10 minutes and then we're applying it to our lives it's like you know some guys are struggling with their kids some guys are struggling in their marriage some guys are struggling with whatever and we're able to sit down and talk about it and actually apply it to our lives and the beauty is really in bringing them both together yeah so a lot of like my ministry is trying to answer this is how how can I take the teachings of the church the the fullness of the teachings and apply them to young people's lives to my listeners lives and I think a lot of it is just having this Catholic worldview of like okay how can I see everything in this world through the knowledge that I have of Christ mm-hmm the answer to every question is Jesus Christ basically so that's makes sense that that's was your answer that's just what I'm gonna say for the rest of the interview every question you ask Jesus Christ what's your favorite flavor of ice cream Jesus Christ now it just sounds like I'm taking the Lord's name in vain so I I don't want to dwell on this vanilla by the way Hey French vanilla or homemade Bella from Blue Bell ice cream here in Texas mm-hmm I don't want to dwell on anything negative but there has been some talk about this sex scandal in the States can you just give your perspective maybe you've had some insight or maybe you've meditated or prayed about it can you just talk a little bit from your heart yeah man this has been consuming the lives of so many of us recently it's absolutely heartbreaking heart-wrenching it's stupid and frankly it just makes me angry like I've been so angry for the last month like barely able to hold it in the good thing is is I do have this community of people fellow Catholics parishioners the people that I work with my friends fellow podcasters that I've been able to talk with and like we're all struggling through this together like we don't know the answers were lost we don't know what's going on we don't know who to trust but the answer is Jesus Christ again right it's like the things that kind of tipped the scales for me a bit from going to this like run in one way like what is going on why are we even a part of this this is all nasty and gross like the thing that turned me back was just like an gods God so good man these readings over the last few weeks have just been so pertinent for what we've been going through and one of the big ones for me was two stories from from Peters or from the Gospels with about Peter so the one is that when he goes out to walk on the water right a couple of things that I hadn't realized until the midst of this scandal is that there's a storm going on in the middle list of this and whenever I pictured the story even though it's not what it says I pictured it being like a still lake and Jesus out there and night Peter walks on the still lake right there's a storm going on the people are afraid Jesus walks out like if it's really you and Peter walks out of the boat in the middle of the storm everything's going crazy there's Lightning flashing there's rain coming down and thunder all this stuff's going on but he steps out in faith onto the water and because he trusts Jesus and he's looking at Jesus he walks out there on the choppy water and we all know how the story goes right he looks down he takes his eyes off of Christ and starts to looking at the way he starts looking at the lightning then he starts to fear all the stuff that's going on and then he looks up at Jesus and he says the most simple prayer of all time and one of my favorite Lord helped me save me and was used to he picks him up and he's like why did you doubt and that's what a lot of us are doing right now it's what I've been doing and what I've been trying to use this story to change my focus on it's like we are all so much looking at the darkness looking at their waves looking at the lightning looking at the water when we all stepped out in faith to live for God initially and we were looking at him we were all focused on him even though there one of these waves and there was these storms going on we had our eyes on him we took them off now we feel like we're lost in drowning we're freaking out and like for real reason like I'm struggling with this as much as anybody else is but the only the only hope we have just to look up Jesus say Lord save me in the midst of the storm we need you that's the first story of Peter and then the second one is we've been in the bread of life discourse on Sunday's Gospels where it feels like an eternity I think it's been actually a month and you know reading through that and seeing how many questions Jesus has asked and he doesn't really answer on it's a time of confusion he says eat my flesh people walk away and I can feel the frustration of the people that walk away I can feel the frustration even in Peter like I don't know what's going on god but there's a there's an option I can walk away like those guys in John chapter 6 - 6 - 6 6 6 6 or I can be like Peter and throw up my hands in the same kind of exasperation like where else am I going to go you have the words of eternal life like I trust you right and like I think I've heard that story contrasted before where it's like they walked away and Peter was like pristine in his face I'm like I don't see that anymore I see an exasperated man throwing up his hands like where else am I gonna go like I've got nothing else other than you even though I don't get what's going on I'm sticking with you Jesus and like that's where I'm trying to be that's been my prayer the last few weeks mm-hmm so I want you to talk about the holiness of the Holy Roman Catholic Church what is that why do you believe in it why do you continue to believe in it or do you since this particular scandal yeah I mean it's it's been rough and I would be lying to you if I said I hadn't questioned it at some point but like Jesus founded this church he said that the gates of hell I'm not gonna prevail against it the whole like he sent His Holy Spirit to be with us in the midst of trying times like the church has been through trying times for 2,000 years this one is a huge monstrous bomb for all of us all of us in the world I mean even for non Catholics like this is just rocking so many different people and the thing that's holding me firm is the foundation of Christ and that his church that he put forth is holding but there are a lot of unholy people in the church and as we've seen here recently sadly way too many unholy men leading our church it's like Satan has taken a hold of a few of them right but even and even in the midst of this time like the gates of Hell will not prevail against the church like Satan hates the church he's gonna continue to fight against a continue to try to take down the things that we trust the most right if we trust in our priests in our bishops he's gonna try to attack that and he does this to us on a personal level as well it's like okay what am i what are the parts that he can take out within me it's kind of lower my defenses so that I can fall into sin it's like these are his tactics that he's been using absolutely forever and the only reason that I'm still Catholic despite all of these scandals and all of this ugliness is number one the Eucharist I can't leave the Eucharist just like Peter in that story I can't leave because I believe so much that that bread and that wine become the body and blood of Christ as Jesus says in the Gospels like I can't leave that even when I went to the nondenominational church in 7th and 8th grade like I had this amazing experience of community and scriptures and worship but even then I felt like this small piece was missing and that's what I found out right at that Stephenville conference like this is what I was missing it was it was the Eucharist number to the confessional because I am a dirty rotten sinner and I absolutely need that sacrament if I didn't have it I don't hide honestly don't know what I would do and the third thing that I'm like you know why I'm still Catholic and why I'm still in this faith is because man I've had so many questions I eventually get them all answered eventually I mean I had this list in my phone of hundreds and hundreds of questions like why do we believe this why do we believe this what does this verse mean how does this verse fit with the Catholic teaching of this and I just had that list since college and just narrowed it down God answers got it down got a gallon got it down got it down and like I've never been led astray by the church as a whole now there have been individuals in the church that have absolutely hurt me absolutely tried pushing me away from the church whether intentionally or unintentionally but individuals leaders this sort of thing that it's been rough man but like so many people are saying this recently and I think it really is just it's just one of the things getting us through this it's like I follow Jesus's Church I'm a part of the Bride of Christ the church as broken and as hurting as we are like Jesus is coming to save his bride and that's when I'm part I want to get your opinion on homosexuality in particular what would you say for example to a young nephew that came up to you that was apparently Catholic but that was unrepentantly homosexual that wanted to pursue the priesthood what advice would you give to a hypothetical young man that was unrepentantly homosexual what advice would you give and then just talked generally about your take on homosexuality and how it relates to the crisis please uh it's just really hard for me to talk about that one right now in the midst of this pedophilia scandal but if he was unrepentant obviously he can't be a priest but I think the real problem is the pedophilia and the homosexuality problem is a problem in and of itself but I don't know what to say like the tagline for my show is to make Catholicism fun again there's nothing fun about this it seems to be sucking out all of our joy mm-hmm what do you think of Pope Francis do you give him the benefit of the doubt always have you found it easy to love and admire him how is that ride been for you because it's been difficult for a lot of people that consider themselves on the right politically I don't know where you stand politically I don't really care either but just as a human being how does his pontificate strike you right yeah so my show fort a Catholic and the tagline I mentioned earlier make us also some fun again like I thought of that and I was like okay I want people to enjoy their time but I also want there to be this real truth like you know obviously using entertainment using joy using jokes using whatever to draw people in and then like once you have people captivated like sharing the real message of the gospel sharing the truths of the church all that sort of thing and a lot of that comes from Pope Francis's joy of the gospel cuz he talks about that that same thing that document was so influential in my life because like one of my favorite lines is in the first chapter of that letter and it talks about so many Catholics are living their lives like lens without Easter and like that's essentially what we're trying to do here make puzzles but again bring the joy back like Christ won victory for us on the cross we shouldn't be walking in our Catholic guilt or shame whatever like he won that for us go on a confession and then you're good like we should be a joyful people not moping around like it's a good Friday all the time like we have both we have Good Friday and then we have Easter so I've always loved him and there's been some of these things like you know over the last years I've all just kind of chuckled like you said something on a plane unscripted and everybody like goes crazy I'm just like whatever man like every word this guy is saying is recorded if every if every word I was saying was recorded people probably wouldn't like that either but I get it's different I'm just me and he's the Pope but this whole scandal thing has brought question to just about everybody like I'm questioning almost everything right and like this this last week has been weird I don't have enough information I haven't read all the Vigano stuff I'm just trying to keep up I don't know how this is all going to play out man with the accusations against him and like we just I think I just have to sit back and wait yeah I just want to give a little suggestion to you into every other faithful Catholic the basic idea is that I find it very improbable that Pope Francis has ill-will towards the church toward Jesus Christ toward the faithful I really find it very unlikely and that is the essential question does he have ill-will has he been operating with ill will or good will he's protected from teaching error concerning faith and morals when he does it and very well defined way or during an ecumenical council but the rest of the time he's going to make mistakes why because he's a fallen sinner in a fallen world and he's not God you know he is the Vicar of Christ I need 81 years old give him a break try I challenge anyone to keep up with his schedule I challenge anyone to do what he does and to do a better job I mean I think it's ridiculous to criticize the Pope I really do and if someone's calling for his resignation I think that's just pure emotion I don't think it's rational I don't think it's sane think it's fair I don't think it's charitable now they may have good reasons but the real pertinent question for me is does he have good will I think he does yeah I would agree with you I really would and we got into that man I'm sweating hey I'd like you to really talk to me because I've never listened to your podcast what's your format what are the highlights who have been you some of your favorite guests and what have you learned what have you learned about yourself what have you learned about your faith from doing the podcast can you just talk a little bit about that sure yeah it's called Forte Catholic it's here in Red Sea radio this is where it all started here locally in Bryan College Station Texas I did an internship in radio when I was in college at Guadalupe Radio in San Antonio and I got the bug you know the radio bug you catch it and you're like okay I have to do this I studied music industry in college so like how to work to the board all the technical stuff but I watched all these hosts and I was like I want to do that that's forward five years later I move here and essentially all I did was follow the parable of the persistent Widow I kept asking hey can I have a show on your radio station here's my pitch here's everything that I can do and they kept saying oh not yet we're busy blob of love everything was changing right and then finally they put me at like nighttime so that nobody would listen right and then after a year man it's continued to grow it's been two years now so at year one they were like okay your show is actually pretty good they've moved me to the morning slot my friends over at st. Michael radio in Tulsa Oklahoma said okay we're gonna air your show as well also a few months after that Cairo radio in North Carolina said hey we're gonna air your show it's also in the podcast so it's continuing to grow man it's been a fun we're coming up on our hundredth episode in a couple of weeks so it's been a wild ride so for people that have a listen to show yet it's it's an hour-long show but the podcast is about 54 minutes or so we do three segments the first segment me my producer we have a conversation about what's going on we have a topic we play a game we we have a mixture of having fun like we'll play like faith-based games and I'll share something that came out of the scriptures that I was reading we laugh a lot we have amazing guests man this has been one of my favorite parts about the show is I get to talk to people that absolutely shouldn't be talking to you right all the Catholic Answers people have been on so like your 10 staples your Carla Broussard Jimmy ake and all those guys like Tim staples called me bro that was like a life-changing experience like Tim staples says I'm a pro you know here recently I love being on like Catholic Twitter so the new king of Catholic Twitter father Anthony suratha up in Pittsburgh he's a good friend of mine he's been on the show we play fortnight together it's a blast a bunch of local people here like father Jared cook another podcaster Alison Sullivan have been on the show and one of the one of the biggest the biggest Catholic streamer in the world named ninja his brother his older brother is also a streamer and he is a essentially is in youth ministry is in catechesis and evangelization at his parish he streams as well his stream is all about reaching people and sharing the gospel while he's playing fortnight he's a phenomenal man that's that's been our most popular episode by far so I have a blast talking to these people it's essentially we were talking earlier about connecting the knowledge of the faith with like our actual lives and our experience that's what we're trying to do with the show Wow I usually at the end of my interviews I just ask my guests to sort of wrap up with a final thought something positive a message of hope so what might you be able to say to someone that might be out there listening now to the Catholics I would say find a little joy in your life like remember the entire point of the gospel was that we're all broken sinners and Jesus came back to teach us how to live and then to die for the times that we didn't live it out and rise again to bring us to new life like that's the Peace of Catholics that I think so many of us miss one of my favorite things to talk about is how Catholic guilt must die we need to change our guilt that we feel our shame into conviction to change move forward leave all that guilt and shame in the back go to confession if it's just a venial sin say the confiteor very mastered your good like let's live in the joy that Jesus won for us on the cross and not cheap in that victory by still beating ourselves up and saying Oh mayor Copa Maricopa like it's always me I'm always bad for those who are listening that aren't Catholic that aren't especially those who aren't of a faith man this faith thing is a journey we all have our questions - you have so many questions you know that we'd all love to answer them for you we'd love to just walk with you in this and like there's there is so much joy to be found in community and in the scriptures and in the Eucharist