Catholic vs. Muslim - 2017-10-06 - Post-Mortem

Author Recorded Friday October 6th, 2017

There are 2 episodes in the Versus:Muslim series.

This interview was vetoed by my guest, a Muslim man who shall remain unnamed to protect his identity. In this, my first ever post-mortem episode, I dissect the interview in an attempt to understand why it was killed. • Support the CVS Podcast: • Be a guest on a livestream:

Under Construction

Under Construction

These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
so sadly I don't have a guest for you today to listen to you're just gonna have to listen to me I'm gonna give a post-mortem on an interview that was vetoed this particular man agreed to be interviewed by me knowing that my podcast is called Catholic versus Muslim knowing that the entire point of the podcast is to compare and more importantly to contrast my Catholic worldview with his non Catholic worldview with his Muslim world view he knew that after five months of consistent reminders have you listened to it is it okay to publish is there anything you don't approve of do you want any further edits finally I think he managed to communicate to me that he just doesn't want his long being compared with another worldview why why did he find this threatening I barely got a word in edgewise during the interview so what what did I say that had such a powerful damaging impact on his religion let's take a look at some as some listening to the interview now but about seven minutes in I haven't said one word when I asked him to tell us a little bit about himself he said no this is what we're going to do I'm going to talk and you're going to listen so he took control and for seven minutes he talked about God his god and my god by the way and everything he said was wonderful and beautiful and I was enjoying it and after seven minutes of praising and glorifying God and making it perfectly clear that God is sovereign God is perfect and God is transcendent and that nothing resembles God after seven minutes of that I said okay well now tell me something I don't know what is unique about Islam because everything you've said aligns perfectly with all three monotheistic religions Judaism Christianity and Islam so why don't you tell me now something about your religion that makes it different from the other monotheistic religions and he just came back to this idea this monotheistic idea that God does not resemble his creation God is transcendent God is sovereign God is not a man and I said I agree with you God is not a man and so he started talking about Jesus Jesus is a man yes I agree Jesus is a man God does not resemble a man I agreed God does not resemble a man but Jesus is a man yes Jesus is a man I agree my ways are not your ways says the Lord we can't make God in our image we can't force God into a box or make God conform to our ideas about him he is transcendent he is sovereign he will surprise us so I was curious if he would actually dig a little bit deeper into what is very paradoxical namely the Trinity and the Incarnation what will this Muslim man do when confronted with the mystery of God will he bow will he prostrate himself will he submit or will he tell God no you can't Trinity you can't incarnate you can't die for my sins is that what he's gonna do I don't know all I know is that he was baffled by my answer because I was atheist for 25 years and had come to God through philosophy I knew to expect apparent contradiction I knew to expect paradox because there is no other way God is necessarily beyond our comprehension it's the characteristic of God God is incomprehensible God cannot be named I thought the Muslims knew this I'm sorry to say that I did lose respect for Islam because of this interview even if it had been approved for publication and especially because it wasn't god is controversial God is not conformable to our human ways and our human ideas and our human categorizations I thought all monotheists knew that so I I finally relieved the tension a little bit I thought I did by revealing the Catholic doctrine that Jesus Christ is fully God fully man and he has two natures divine and human and that the human nature is different from the divine nature I think that goes without saying I then changed the subject slightly I asked him to talk a little bit about Judaism from his perspective what differentiates Islam from Judaism theologically and the first thing he said was quite shocking to me I'd never heard it before I've since looked it up and it's a real thing Islam apparently teaches that the Jews believe that God has a son Ezra now we all know about Ezra but I'd never heard anyone say that the Jews believe in a son of God not in any divine sense I haven't looked into it too deeply so I don't know exactly what the nuance teaching is and I certainly don't know what the Jewish perspective is but in the next Jew I interview I'll certainly ask that he continued talking about the unacceptable teachings of Judaism from his perspective talking about how God is for the Jews an old man up in the clouds and he sits up there on his throne and he got tired after the six days of creation and so he laid down in his bed in the clouds and he took a little nap and he started talking like this taking at face value what we Catholics understand to be condescension or another word for that literary technique is attribution for God who is pure spirit all anthropomorphism for the divine nature is condescension in holy scripture talking in a way that we humans can understand and relate to as finite beings right there is no other way to communicate with us other than through attribution when it comes to the unknowable and incomprehensible and unnameable ineffable eternal God I thought that was a given in all of monotheism so I was surprised by his very low opinion of his fellow monotheists another funny thing that he accused the Jews of believing is that Abraham overpowered God intellectually that he argued with God and he won the argument now if you don't know that that's condescension you need to check I don't even know how to respond to that I just find that so funny and of course no offense is intended here I love and respect my guests my mind is boggling that he could be so ignorant about monotheism given that he's among atheist but when I suggested that this is just a literary technique I challenged him and I said are you telling me that if I look in the Koran I won't find any anthropomorphism I won't find talk of gods tongue or his arm or his hand or his lips or his head or his body his waist his breasts are you telling me that I won't find any of these attributions in the Koran is that what you're telling me the obvious implication of my question being that if there are examples in the Quran of this anthropomorphic language attributing to God what is human attributing attributes of the creation to the Creator if there's even one example of that in the Quran then we've got a clear case of hypocritical double standard because and again I'm not I'm not attacking this man's character I'm just saying that from the point of view of Islam if he's presenting Islam and Islam says Judaism attributes the characteristics of a creature to the Creator based on these they don't ever like to stand on with that criticism if the Quran does the same thing and I've since found out that the Quran does contain anthropomorphic descriptions of God so I asked him directly is there an example of the crime of this same anthropomorphism he immediately changes subject he started talking about the Old Testament the Gospels how Islam respects the Old Testament Islam respects the Gospels and my response was yes Islam respects them they don't exist Islam clearly teaches that yes the holy books are holy but we don't have access to them they've been corrupted lies have been introduced they're not inerrant not the copies that the Jews and the Christians have and as far as I know the Muslims don't claim to have the originals if they did certainly I think it would make sense to come forward with them since they are revered these non-existent scriptures since they are revered as holy texts of Islam I think it would make sense to bring them forth if they had them in the possession but this brought to mind the questions of authority and infallibility which are so near and dear to my heart as a Catholic and as a mafia stymie Nye won't settle for anything less even if Christianity turns out to be a false religion I will not settle for less than authority infallibility and defect ability so God's religion is the one true religion and it has to have those three attributes his since God does so when I asked him about Authority and infallibility I was a little bit surprised to find out that he does believe in infallibility and authority and they reside in Proffitt messengers like Muhammad was a prophet messenger it's more than just a prophet so they have the Quran which is infallible inerrant they have Muhammad they have God of course they have angels that are infallible but they don't get directly involved in transmitting these messages day-to-day in Islam the angels of course communicated with Muhammad allegedly but there's another layer which has to do with interpretation because what with mom it's no longer here there are the what they call qualified scholars who are able to interpret the texts because there's not just the Quran there's also the life of Muhammad and the writings of Muhammad his life this needs to be it has to be interpreted infallibly obviously and so the Muslims don't claim to have access to Muhammad directly but they do have access to his book the Quran and they do have access to the life of Muhammad and they do have wise scholars that can give us the correct interpretation of any question concerning faith in walls so either that's an fallible Catholic sort of arrangement where there's a living Magisterium which cannot err went teaches faith in morals for the whole body of the faithful or it's a Protestant sort of outfit where Islam says look every every truth is in this book and it's sort of self-evident if you're smart enough and this is the Protestant idea of private judgment you go to your Quran and the truth is there just go if God wants you to see the truth the truth is there and if you have a quarrel with your neighbour about interpretation look at all the wise men what the wise men have said these scholars the Protestants that I speak with they're not shy to draw on the wisdom of the fathers the wisdom of the scholars they have the freedom ultimately to choose which interpretation to go with because obviously they're different scholars with different opinions and we've got many many thousands of denominations in Christianity and we've got different denominations in Islam because without an authoritative unified teaching body people will come to different conclusions so in any case the interview continues and we talked about some interesting stuff but it's not really relevant the post mortem as such because it wasn't controversial that as I said earlier the only thing that's controversial is God we can grasp a lot of philosophical truths even eternal unchanging truths with the light of natural reason we can for example the existence of the god of monotheism that can be known by the light of natural reason we can know that he's a mystery we can know that he's not a man up in the clouds sitting on his throne resting after work because he's tired we can know all of that with our natural reason we can't know the Trinity that way though we need supernatural divine revelation to know the Trinity the same thing for the Incarnation and everything that flows from that the Catholic Church the Holy Roman Catholic Church it's one it's holy it's Catholic its apostolic we can't know that without divine revelation we just can't I do love and respect my guest and I sympathize with his fear it would seem to be theologically inevitable that the fear of God for the Muslim is a servile fear it's not a loving childlike fear of disappointing a loving and merciful father it's because the theology doesn't make sense because there are contradictions in Islamic theology there's something off with their God and because there's something off with their understanding of God even the smallest error with regard to something that's infinite can be very powerful and if it's not light its darkness if it's not of God it's not so no matter how much they have in common in the theological understanding of God the Father if it's not 100% correct there's darkness and so I sympathize with the Muslims because they don't have the fullness of truth concerning God the Father how could they it's impossible for both Catholicism and Islam to both be right because they contradict each other they contradict each other on something as central as the nature of the relationship of God to man we have the Incarnation they don't have that that is no small affair when it comes to the fear of God we are commanded to have the fear of God but it means something quite different to us because of the Incarnation because of the Trinity because of the redemption because of our understanding of original sin because of our understanding of salvation because of our understanding of grace all the puzzle pieces fit together it's so comforting but if you're alone in this great dark universe on this tiny planet and God is nowhere to be seen that's lonely that's no the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom but it's only the beginning for the Christian because when you are afraid to displease God and you start to want to please God and you run into his loving arms the fears gone perfect love casts out fear that st. Paul famously said and it's true you go into the physical human arms of Jesus there's no we need to renounce ourselves and we need to go to God we need to trust in God we need to love God as a child loves his father so if there any Muslims that are out there listening if you practice your faith if you love your faith if you know your faith if you know who you are and what you believe in why you believe it please get in touch with me you don't need to know who I am you don't need to know who Jesus is you just need to know who you are and what you believe you don't need to know everything that you believe you just need to know the core essential foundational beliefs that make you say yes to Islam every Muslim should know that just as every Catholic should know why are you a Catholic what is it that you believe that makes you a Catholic what is it that the Jew believes that makes him a Jew and once you know what it is that you believe why do you believe it many things that I the Jew and the Muslim are no different there are many things that we believe because our religion that we choose to believe teaches us to believe that and I think that's rational I think that's sane I think that's healthy and I think we don't have a choice we are finite fallible creatures we need to be sincere and evaluate reality and look at some fundamental questions and come to some conclusions the only alternative is agnosticism and that's untenable philosophically we have to commit everyone makes a leap of faith so if you're a Muslim and if you're listening to this and if you have something to say as long as it's about the truth get in touch please and of course the same goes for every other worldview if you're a Scientologist listening to this if you know who you are what you believe in why you believe it get in touch please not because I have anything for you but because you have something to share with my audience which is admittedly small right now but I'm your fellow man I'm your neighbor and I'm inviting you to talk about the truth there's no higher reason needed your brother is asking you to talk about God your brother is asking you to talk about truth your brother wants to get to know you and who you are what you believe and why you believe it it's that simple there not many people listening but there are some people listening and even if there's one person listening if they could be moved by your story if they can get a little bit closer to the truth because of your journey and because of your conviction because of your love of and I always wrap up my interviews with a message for those who need hope hoist and everyone surprises me there's no preparation for any of my interviews ever I sit down with someone and I start asking them basic questions the same questions every time who are you what do you believe and why do you believe it then at the end I surprised them I put them on the spot and I asked them to talk to you the audience find something to say to that nameless faceless stranger out there and I'm always surprised by what they have to say you don't know the depths of compassion that lie and someone but you can get a little glimpse if you just ask ask someone to reach out with words of advice comfort consolation inspiration hope and you might get a little glimpse of something unique something powerful something moving so since I don't have a guest today in the spirit of Catholic versus Muslim final thought I guess what I would say to anyone that's out there listening today is don't be afraid don't be afraid of the truth and whether you believe in God or not don't be afraid of God don't cower in fear like a slave he's infinitely lovable and if the idea of God doesn't appeal to you start with truth that's where I started I can sympathize with the 80s I was atheist for 25 years I can sympathize with many many worldviews I've dabbled our hearts are restless until they repose in God so my restless heart wandered all over the place and I dabbled and I was seeking seeking truth even if I didn't know it and I don't think there's anyone out there listening now that isn't seeking the truth we are made for truth because we are made by truth so if you're honest with yourself and if you love truth and if you give yourself to that love and don't hold back even if your nicest as I