Hey, what's up? This is Chris Dyer and you're listening to Catholic vs other. Just introduce yourself if he wanted to the audience, talk a little bit about yourself. Who you are what you believe and how you came to believe it. I am an artist. I paint the paintings and murals, and I do graphics drawings and a bunch of fun projects that keep you busy. I guess. I believe that everything is everything whatever people call God. Is the maximum expression of a consciousness that runs through everything and all of us? So we all have potential to become? That is God. All that there is, or is there also something separate from God. What do you think? Well? That's a good question. Once again. It's like the definition of what is God. Cause Like When I think why God created everything they had to be God absolute. You know just existing and everything ness whatever that means, and then he had to create the non God in order for him to become God as a, in contrast, because without something else other than himself, there's just nothing in a way. There's everything, but everything becomes nothing. If there's nothing else to kind of create the difference between one thing and the next saw. I could imagine that there is what once again. What we think of God is kind of like you know, create are kind of consciousness that knows everything, and you know it just as unlimited powers or whatever you know, we personify him. Don't know of it's a person, or is this like a code or just some kind of quiet intelligence, but whatever that is, he had to create kind of like the opposite, but still that opposite was created with the Juilliard you. Well themselves. It's like you can disconnect him from what is not himself. What were the first experiences that you had with God and religion. If you had any at all, Yeah, Well, I grew up in Lima, Peru, till age seventeen saw, though I had moments of self awareness and spirituality, and neither there is something like special within me when you asked the adults what's up with that? They'd all goes down to like a religion and of Peru. It's you know Catholicism or some kind of Christianity and Jesus, so I went with it, yet Also I am you know throughout most of my childhood and teen years ago to go to church every Sunday, and I try to make a good way of what I was told God was about the funny part ways that. Good intentions like I wanted to be down with God. It'd be a good person that I'm going to church every Sunday and my parents were going, but then I'm doing bad things on the side. I was part of the street gang and was like you know a drunken person, and so going to church and hearing somebody speak wasn't that experiential spiritual kind of living that really made me want to be good other than an intention cause. If you're still doing bad things on the side, then it's just all like theory. So once I moved to Canada, I kept on you know my Kotalik path, Because it's all and you are on a way to connect with that, but it wasn't until I went through a tree planning adult. I was like age twenty one, and I just gone through like a couple of really heavy alcoholic years. Us is drunk most of the week and doing a lotta bad things and the got tired of it and went tree planting in Norfolk, Ontario. And I just sorta learned things from the beginning. In a way. I. I didn't really go with any friends, so I could just be who it was at the time, and I just you know plant trees and nature where there was no city or masks or lies or construct their reality to tell me how things were supposed to be how I was supposed to be so again, Just like let go a little bit and trying to rediscover who I was and. We thought he was so yep, so true nature. I got to discover you know that silence spirituality that exist within us that is not attached to a culture like religions. After that, I kept on my path, and I guess I'm a spiritual person, but not of any specific religion or. What is the worst case scenario for ultimate reality Because it seems like you subscribed to Catholicism in a sort of by default without really thinking about it or accepting it fully. That was what you grew up with and then you found spirituality. I guess you would say that's the true path or at least a more true path for you, But on that path that you find yourself on now the spiritual holiday is there any difference between the best case scenario ultimately and the worst case scenario. Because in Catholicism, we have heaven and hell and those are two drastically different outcomes for every individual based on whether they say yes or no to God, But in your spirituality is there a difference between the best case scenario and the worst case scenario And how does that play out? If there is a difference? Well, I am a believer of karma, and yes, I believe in Helens and the hills, but I don't believe. It's only after death, I believe they can be experienced while in the physical plane. As well as the physical plane, I don't believe that there would be eternal. You know, say you gotta get get punished in the astral plane. I don't believe that last forever. It might seem like an eternity compared to time on this plane, but you know eventually you pay your karma either there or here or somewhere else, and so yeah, I believe that if you do something bad and something bad will happen to you. But I also believe that if you do a bunch of good stuff, you still gotta come back to Planet Earth, dig Get good stuff happened to you. You know that whole law of karma has got a lot of loopholes and stuff, so I don't I really like believe on it Like you know like one hundred percent, but in general I know that I not supposed to do bad things, because if not that will happen to me and I seen that happen in my life, so if anything, I, I use that belief. If you do a bunch of good stuff so then my life is just full of blessings, and that's almost like a selfish way to go about it, But you know why not just make people happy and people make me happy. I think. If we all just went about it that way, the world would be in a better place, so as for your ultimate consequences. If I did bad things, You know we're allowed to make mistakes in these lies. I don't think life's a test like there's no like Oh you pass, or you didn't pass, but. It's always like virtual reality game that we play for eighty to one hundred years and we learn from it and from those lessons we keep on improving and polishing the diamond of ourselves and I, yeah, it's all blast, you know. In the end the bad lifetimes will teach you a lesson, and you know, ideally we all just enjoy all the time. That's what I would want for myself and that's what I wish to to a else, but I guess. Sometimes suffering is part of the equation, and there's a lot of growth that comes out of it. Are you a separate self or are you and I to different people, or are we all one and the separation is an illusion, As some of the Eastern mysticism described, That's a tricky question. I like it, Because Yes, I believe we're all one like we're all drops of the same ocean that we navigate, and, but yes, I'm a separate entity. I got my own personality. I got my own idea, so it's like to let the same time the way that I was taught to understand eternity within the limitations of the physical plane was true sacred geometry. You know when you draw a triangle, and then you draw another triangle inside a triangle, but upside down wood. That's my way of understanding eternity within a limited finite body, cause the first triangle you drew. As its age and outside of that, there's no more triangle, so that it's an individual triangle, but then when you draw that little triangle inside and then you draw another little triangle inside that one, and then again and again and again, As long as he can, you know, go down in size enough you can keep on going forever so that helps me see like I had a turtle after all, but you know in one direction, I guess, do you think that you will persist as you? Forever or do you think that you will come to an end and your energies will transform into some other form. Whether it's human or nonhuman, once again, It comes down to the the ignition of what it is you or I and Daddy's a bunch of different things. I got my human personality and quirks I learned in my forty eight years as a human being. I brought in maybe some own personality and quirks from past lives and past traumas pass rewards, and you know do cause. Really. I don't really understand what really is the sole at the end of the day, and if at the big, get like, say God just made the earth and he's gonna throw in some souls onto Planet Earth or the brand new soul with zero life. Do they have no personality or do they have a personality is closer to God's personality since they're sprung out of him, or do they still have that unique configuration all of ways that you know like we can see in astrology or something like that that I. I really don't know, but you know I do feel like you know there's uniqueness to everything. That's what makes it so special, and as in the same way, it makes me feel like God in itself. Because there's only one Chris Iron and I think that's that's a godly thing. In a way, what I'm what I'm really driving out with the questions about enduring consequences, and whether you exist indefinitely into the future or not, it all comes down to morality. I'm just wondering if you believe in objective morality, and if you do what is the philosophical basis for morality. I do believe in good and bad. I believe that at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because it's once again just a virtual reality kind of like. You know we learn from the good and the bad we learned from the shiloh from the life. There's no bad at you know. As long as we're evolving, even if we did have a lifetime or we did bad things, but once again the karma. You know if you'd like if your lifetimes all about like you know killing people. You're probably not going to meet up with a lotta people who love you or you might get punished, so you know there is consequences to a reaction and I personally want. Nothing but goodness in my life, so I try to do nothing but goodness onto others, but I dunno. This is like a normal thing for all humans also have love and have love for humanity and other people. Even if I don't not know them, and I wish that we all were happy and I wish that noise suffered in this planet. That's I mean that I feel and I. I would like to think that every human being feels that way deep inside and if they don't is. Just because they'd been traumatized or disillusioned or you know, but I like to think that Yeah, inside we're all good. We're all ethical were all moral once again, Who's to say what is good or bad, but I guess as long as you're making people happy, it's good, and if you're making people sad, that's not good, So other end that at that too is not good nor bad, or if I, you know, do drugs or you know have a smoke weed. It's up to me to decide if that's good or bad because I'm the one doing it to myself, so there's a lot of little things we could go over that or what ethical, my non -technical but once again if you're not hurting anyway, making people happy, I think it's all good. Now, Do you think that life is natural, or do you think that life is supernatural in other words? Do you think that life depends on a physical material component or do you believe as I do that God is life and that God is above and beyond and transcends his creation. Yeah, Yeah, No, definitely, I believe there's life and matter. Even that matter. I believe there's like, But does does life depend on the matter, or can we have life. Even without a material universe. This is the question when I'm dead and I must spirit. Flying above my the party that my friends will throw. Once I'm there, I'll still be alive. I'll be the live somewhere else, but you know I still live even though the physical body that was assigned to me during this period is not alive, so I do believe that a maternal. I also believe that when going to die, so and I believe there's life in everything. Even in Iraq, You know how crystal for me has live. And now has a higher consciousness life than a normal rock, but they also have life is a very dense, slow vibration to be Iraq, but there is something in there as everything else, like what makes matter apparently is vacuum, and so it's like just like a code. So if a codes making everything it like everything is alive through it if we look at the mainstream scientific model of our universe, it seems to have a beginning the Big Bang. And it seems to be destined for some kind of ending, which is not hospitable to biological life, So there's this brief window where biological life can arise, and you see life even in a cork or an item or Iraq, So how how do you see that? Either I? I look at the numbers and it looks beautiful to me. It looks alive. It looks like you know like the inside of our bodies. Maybe it is the inside of some gigantic ball when you kind of realize the whole big Bang thing. I'm not saying it didn't happen because there seems to be like you know physical evidence that something sprung from something else, but nobody knows what it was before that explosion areas. Like, Oh, there's nothing There was some things like Well, How you know you weren't there before you can see something happen, But you know what they exploded from me. It was a pimple. I dunno. Like so, there's a lot of things that I just don't know and accept them as it is and I just view life through my own set of beliefs. You're comfortable with a physical universe that is infinite in both directions that has no beginning and has no end and things are just transforming and moving. Are you comfortable philosophically with that? Yeah. I'm not. I don't see why. Just because I'm finite, does anything else in the universe as the finite well, there's the the argument that I draw on when I'm arguing with atheist. I'm not saying you're an atheist, but I can use the same argument. Which is the second law of thermodynamics and entropy. Basically things tend to disorder spontaneously, so there's a movement in our universe towards disorder, Always in Net, Really, Yep, who says that? This is the second law of Thermodynamics. There's a principle of conservation of energy and matter that means that things can only transform, But when you combine that principle with the second law of thermodynamics, you end up with a picture where there's no biological life possible. That idea proves that there is a beginning of the universe because there's only a finite amount of time that would accomplish this pending heat death. And so therefore there cannot be infinite time behind us. I never really looked empty that theory, and what's going to happen to the universe. As has so much time that it is like. By the time it destroys or heats up, We won't even be physical beings anymore. I won't matter that. If my body got too hot cause my dad and I won't need a physical body by then I'll be like I'll have Christ consciousness hopefully. Are we all will like Jesus? Not the only one Buddha wasn't the only one. It's they're just trying to be like. Dude. It's possible. I can do it. Now All of you do it, and then we ascend to like a like a level where we just enjoying, and the universe can keyed up and cold and whatever else wants to do, and we'll be chilling, Cause we're on a different vibe when it comes to like the universe is bound to destroy itself. Well, Yeah, I guess things change but. From my observation, it seems like at least this planet in a very beautiful, harmonious intelligent way, Like so when you look at nature shows, I cannot believe my eyes. When I see all these creatures that evolved into being so intelligently designed. You know just the fact that we all grew eyes and learn how to see. Because that's what we needed to do. It's also magic can call you and every put it inside didn't fall turned. It seems to me like the world is beautifully designed. Them the only one destroying it, and it's us dumb humans. He can like get out of our immature ways, but Yeah, Nah, I observe as everything very beautifully done and my art is just a way to reflect that look towards that. Do you believe that your that your actions are free and that you're not constrained by the past and that you can make choices that really are free? The way I see reality is that every action I do creates a different parallel dimensions. I think there's like endless parallel dimensions right now where I took different choices and Chris is doing something else based on that I think you mentioned earlier in our interview, something about happiness, and in my worldview. That's the entire point is true and lasting happiness. That's the point of all philosophy. Is that that we can find out what is the good life and that we can make choices to live the good life and have the most happiness possible? Is that compatible with your way of seeing everything. Yeah, I'm surprised there. If you want human being on planet Earth. There would not be compatible with that philosophy. It's really not that complicated this whole human being thing, and you know we all need food to eat shelter to not be cold clothes, and you know. You know, and that's why I like Canada like it's kind of tries its best to sue, or at least got their basics. You know. I like to think. At least that's what kind of once everybody's got their food or he's got their their winter jacket, or has got there. You know spot to sleep. Everyone should be rendered. What's due to them. This is the idea of justice. The ancient Greeks talked about the same thing justice giving people what to do to them and giving God would do to him, which is true worship. So is justice achieved. We're not do the good guys get rewarded. And the bad guys finally pay. Are the accounts reckoned or is there an imbalance there when something goes wrong today in the news, and you see that there's an injustice. Is that putting a black mark forever on your on your beautiful canvas, or is that black mark beautiful because it adds contrast or how do you view the whole idea of justice? Well I feel right now, humanity in general is in an unjust situation. Because of the people who had power for a long time, kind of created a system where we're the ones who got like work super hard to barely survive, while they just kind of like chill back and take advantage of us that seems to be like something that's been going on for most of the modern history, but we're talking about thousands of years, so in general, we've all been in and injustice. The situation, but once again, I'm talking about a couple of thousand years, and what happened before that? Maybe things were just back in the day like ten thousand years ago. When like I know pyramids, and you know the ancient culture of the world, who had more wisdom or mayor a different level of consciousness and vibration, may then you what's up and how to treat each other with respect. We know how to do that, But because of these you know some people call them Aliens, maybe. I know I'm gonna get into that topics, but the people in power seem to like have less lug. Maybe it's time to just chill out and be nice and share and be wise. You know that the wisdom exists. We're just not embracing it. Do you think that life has peaked in the past? And that it's reached the apex of what's possible in the potential dimensions that you talked about all the possibilities branching off simultaneously from every point in time for infinity. Do you think we've peaked at some point in terms of life achieving the high watermark of what's possible, Na, Na. I think there's always more. I mean there's more for us. I think there's more for like any animal, I guess I don't believe in the theory of evolution, you know. I don't see why was I in nature. I'd be like okay. We're good enough now and let's just leave everything. As it is. Not. I think there's always ways to keep on improving each other. Is especially at the humans turned to be this horrible thing on planet. Earth Is just like wiping out array else. Maybe nature will turn toxic towards us. Do like clean out the the epidemic of humans. That's killing the planet. I dunno. I don't. I wouldn't want that because I'm a human, but. You know it nature has an intelligence or added. It keeps on evolving. Maybe that could happen, and if that happens, I guess it's meant to be because we brought upon ourselves, And if I die will I don't really die because we're just spirits and something else will happen later and etc. The idea that we have infinite time behind us. I think that's what you believe right Infinite time. Kinda sure. I think the idea that we have infinite time behind us means that we can say with confidence that if that's true. Then we have experienced, and when I say we, I mean life, we've experienced everything that can be experienced by definition, because however much time it would take to evolve into this configuration or that configuration, whether it's the best or the worst or the most mediocre enough time lies behind us. To accommodate all of those things to have played out in their fullness Do you not agree? Yeah, it's tiny so long like when you when I go to a lot of ruins around the world. I mean I depend on the truth and I admit that I'm fallible. I could be wrong. I may belong to a false religion. That is a possibility. Obviously. I don't think that I'm wrong about Jesus Christ and Christianity. If I. If I thought I was wrong, I would I would leave. I would abandon Christianity. Do you think that God is a trinity. I like I like Freeze. I was born the Fertile March, and I'd Trinity is a thing that like you know tickles me nicely in my life. I think is a is a. Special mystical number, and so am not against the Christian Trinity. I. I don't understand. I guess like from the Christian Trent Trinity, Understand who the father is supposed to be the ultimate creator part of soul. That everything sprung out from sook that I get, and the sun is. I guess like you know Jesus, but then again we're all sons of God too and maybe he got to enlighten me people. We're so then he's closer to God, but we all can do it to the Holy spirit. That one. I don't really understand so much. Maybe you can tell me more. It's beyond comprehension. It will always be beyond comprehension to us even in heaven for eternity, but I can tell you some of the poetic imagery that the saints use One of the examples I think is is useful is in your own personal life, you can say that I am. I know that I am and I love that I am. I love the fact that I am. I know the fact that I am, and I simply am, so the father is that being. I am the knowing that you are is the sun in the loving that you are, and that you know that you are, is the Holy spirit. Another image that we can use for the Trinity is God, the father. We start with God, the Father as the the ultimate creator and ultimate source and the self existent being the only being who is necessary ultimately. Cause, we're all contingent, so we start with that God, the father, and he speaks a word, and that word that he speaks comes from him, and it is him, and that word is the second person that's Jesus, and that breath that carries that word is the Holy Spirit and the all of the root words for breath and spirit etymologically go back to the same the same source where they're connected in our languages, typically, so there's this. There's this image of God, speaking one word and one word only. And that that word being uttered with a brass, which it all words necessarily are accompanied by breath, and this is very poetic image. The reality of it obviously will surpass all of these images and these analogies where we try to grasp the mystery of God. Well, We're from what you're explaining to me. It sounds to me like you're describing the source field or what I would consider the source field, and for me it's like God is the messenger. Worried that the gun or something shooting at it or likes what what's a beer analogy? So like yeah, I know it sounds like this that that way you described the Holy spirit is just a channel for the God power to reach almost the death. The the Sun level. It's almost like the conduit or the ether for, or that invisible net that connects us all and transports. The vibrations or whatever you wanna call it, so yeah, I don't fully understand what the Holy Ghost is. Because as he said is this like an untenable thing, but really none of us can really explain really what enlightenment is, or you know what a source feels like these are things that are invisible or not even measurable through science, so we're sorta like stuck with just like you know metaphors, so it's really hard to relate. Be certain on anything or that respect, but you know from what you tell me sounds fine with either that the trinity and down with the trinity Like your sounds good to me. I know it's just different words for the same thing at the end of the day and that's not like I'm going around picking like the religions like a bear. Is that what that religion called an apple that religion call it tomato? I just want to grab it and eat it and it sounds tastes delicious in my mouth for twenty five years as A. As an adult, I was atheist, but when I converted back to God, I was compelled in my very soul to worship God to to praise that God. Just like when you meet the love of your life, a beautiful woman, and you just want to give yourself to her and you want to tell her how beautiful she is. She Doesn't need you telling her that, but you know you're compelled to do that, so I'm wondering in your life. How do you worship and do you feel the need to worship? And are you satisfied with the modes of worship that you've discovered so far I worship? Wow. Worship Is a tricky were like bowing down to something bigger than you. Yeah, everything's bigger than me. There were a lot of things are smaller and me. Too. I, I wouldn't say I worship anything, but I'm super grateful and appreciative of a lot of things including God or. I dunno I I, I, I dunno. I'd like God has lost personality to be with the years. The more like for me, he's less of this character and more of this like you know thing I don't even understand, and I don't even want to talk to him anymore, because I just don't know if I'm talking to myself or to enlighten Chris in the future. Once I make it, so I I'm in a really big I dunno about that one. Do you think there is a possibility of false religion leading you down a bad path? Oh, I do not want to judge or put down anybody's paths, the paths or maybe even interpretation of good paths that lead people down a path of hate. And us against them well. That's what I don't like our religion. It's very much like. Oh, well, I'm right and he's wrong, so that means I got the right to like do something against him and that is against my personal beliefs of what's right and wrong and I wish that wouldn't happen. I usually. A near the end of my interview. I ask my guests if they have any questions about my worldview evoke about catholicism. I think you are raised with it. You know a lot already. But there might be questions you have since I converted it, and you knew me before my conversion, Any questions at all, it could be a trivial question, or can be something heavy and existential. Any questions you have for me, How come so many like priests, and that like raping children, You know God is ultimately in control and he's allowing evil because he can bring good out of it, but he's given dominion to Satan over this world. And famous statement by Pope Paul The sixth, he said Satan. The smoke of Satan has entered into the Vatican. There is an infiltration in the church, and Satan hates the church, and he's attacking the church and a lot of people entered the church to destroy the church. There are freemasons who infiltrated the church all with the set goal of destroying the church from within and there are people within the church that just treat it like a job. They may not be a explicit satanist or communists, but they just saw it like a job. So there are a lot of people in the church. They have no business being in the church. Because the priesthood to the calling you have to be called by God. You have to discern it and you need a lot of grace to live chaste lie, So that's why there's perversion in the church Because we're sinners. We live in a fallen world and people aren't discerning properly before they go into the priesthood. I I like the you cope, sounds like he doesn't like that whole like raping situation he seems like. He, he's okay with the idea that there is other intelligent. You know races on planets other than our own. He's open to the possibility several of the latest popes have been. Have you experienced anything resembling a mystical or supernatural experience? Yeah, I've had a lot of experiences I really like uplifted me. One that came to mind just as much as soon as you mentioned, it was, I used to be part of this Indian path. Qu'ils sont mots the path of the masters, and it, it had to a guru as the leader, and it wasn't like he was like the one. He was just the one right now that was still alive, and when he dies will be somebody else to energy transfer is, and you know, and you just sorta. It's all about like meditation and keeping your Carmelo, and trying to like make this lifetime your last lifetime. Because this whole like some Sarah coming back over and Oregon is the old, and and so I would go to Oregon whenever he would be coming from India would go to Oregon for like three weeks, and he tried to Oregon, and and go to that retreat, and and and meditate and listen to his speeches two times a day. I once he walked close enough to me and he looked at me in my eyes, and from that one look I dropped to my knees and started crying violently. I started remembering all these all these things from my past, you know from my childhood and all these traumatic things started popping up and I just started at such a hard time as a kid, and they all came out of nowhere just from looking at it. I probably like half an hour, so it was like a really weird thing, and the that other than his eyes again, I cried and I felt like I was just like sponge sponges, dirt, being squeezed all the dirt out, and my girl to hug me is like Don't hug me Hug me. I'm like all this crap is coming out of me right now, so so that's a couple. Times like with my old path, which I don't really follow any more. I still try to meditate every now and then, but I'm not really following any gurus anymore other than my own intuition. You know, I also these days, and more once again, I'm not going to say I'm off the path of a Alaska, but these days I started doing. I was going to jungle Peru, the country I'm from and I've had some really great sessions. And you know the I just be like. Oh was a psychedelic. It's chemicals been putting your brand, or your Dmt is released. Of course. They're going to see a lot of trippy stuff, And Yeah, I see my trip me stuff, but then the messages I get are really personal and are very like the vine, and most times I don't even really trip or hallucinate. I, it's like a psychological situation, so when you hit like a. Psychological session that comes from the chemicals in a planned, and it seems like he just hangs out with a person who just healed you and becomes like a really let whoa like what is nature made out of kind of situation, So Yep, that's more recent, so just as a final wrap up. What would you say to anyone that's listening. You know. I think everything's going to be. Okay, at the end of the day. It's all about perspective. You know. Maybe my perspective is rob me. I will not hold onto the truth, but in that perspective allows me to have like a better attitude towards it all about all the the crap that we gotta go through as humans. Then it's not a bad thing and I'd say that to anyone else. He not like you make up your own decision on what. This whole thing is about like if it's a spiritual thing, We're just a bunch of animals living on a planet for a couple of years, and then that's it it. It's up to you. I like to see things from a higher perspective. Because then like it bums me out lessons like Oh shit fat on the monitor, but yeah, but that's got to happen for people to wake up and make it better, so maybe let's just set that you know. But not enough not to the point where I'm like. Oh well, then I'm not going to like you to contribute to the good side. Now I will also try to control the bits. Ideas. I believe that it is not that it doesn't matter, but I know that everything is meant to be, and I have a bitter sentence of it, so than any comes less of a bummer Because I got I got that tool, So yeah, I dunno that will make me right or wrong, but that's how I roll and I leave a fairly happy life because of it and I, I, you know I, I. Well then I believe life is what you create from. It's like you're living life from a point where you leaves you now can make you happy. Then you're going to create an unhappy life. But if you're you leaves allow you to create anything at all like that's minor leave. I think I am unlimited on what I could manifest for myself. You know to some degree and there's where I got a new level. Don't mind has to monitor. We'll never have time to go to sleep, and so Yeah, you got power. Everybody's got power. It's in your hands and just do it. It's what I'd say that there were lots of glass. Well, you got to do is.