100:00:02,333 --> 00:00:06,539�The wind blows where it wills.� (John 3: 8)200:00:06,539 --> 00:00:11,901>>Fr. Martin: Hello David, and thanks for being with us.300:00:12,694 --> 00:00:16,939�Before I formed you in the womb I knew you.� (Jeremiah 1: 5)400:00:17,179 --> 00:00:20,418>>Fr. Martin: Divine providence has its ways and its designs,500:00:20,703 --> 00:00:22,387and it is by chance that we first met600:00:22,661 --> 00:00:25,740at the Monastic Fraternity of Jerusalem.700:00:35,540 --> 00:00:42,128�Deliver me according to your promise.� (Psalm 119: 170)800:00:48,466 --> 00:00:53,171�Let my lips overflow with praise.� (Psalm 119: 171)900:01:10,593 --> 00:01:12,910>>Fr. Martin: It was a great pleasure to meet you1000:01:13,369 --> 00:01:17,256there among the monks. So now you have agreed to this1100:01:17,403 --> 00:01:26,771informal interview. David, tell me a little about yourself,1200:01:26,978 --> 00:01:32,645and about your life prior to your conversion.1300:01:32,940 --> 00:01:41,022>>David: Ok. Well, thank you for having me. My name is David.1400:01:41,255 --> 00:01:46,254I was born in Ontario into an ordinary family.1500:01:46,483 --> 00:01:50,410Ontario is very Protestant, so I was born into a Protestant family.1600:01:50,722 --> 00:01:58,209It was a good family, a normal family; my mother loved me,1700:01:58,515 --> 00:02:01,569my father loved me�we all loved each other.1800:02:01,709 --> 00:02:08,403I had a faith in Jesus Christ�a completely naive faith,1900:02:08,546 --> 00:02:12,139I could say, because I didn't intellectualize it,2000:02:12,322 --> 00:02:13,690I didn't think too much about it,2100:02:13,971 --> 00:02:16,922I simply accepted the love of God. I prayed nightly,2200:02:17,209 --> 00:02:21,169as I was taught to do by my Mother and by the Protestant church.2300:02:21,453 --> 00:02:25,139I also have two sisters. Actually, I have three sisters2400:02:25,424 --> 00:02:32,565but one died just after childbirth and consequently2500:02:32,851 --> 00:02:34,721a third girl was adopted into our family�and so I still have2600:02:35,010 --> 00:02:39,113two sisters. But it's a normal family�it's true that my mother2700:02:39,409 --> 00:02:42,347suffered great pain and suffers from depression and other2800:02:42,631 --> 00:02:45,677psychological problems because she lost her daughter, which is2900:02:45,964 --> 00:02:48,491very painful, so she had difficulty with that,3000:02:48,774 --> 00:02:50,522but otherwise it's an ordinary family.3100:02:50,806 --> 00:02:58,784But as concerns my faith, I lost my faith at the age of 14.3200:03:00,272 --> 00:03:02,132�I have engraved you on the palms of my hands.� (Isaiah 49: 16)3300:03:02,794 --> 00:03:07,290...and so I remember the precise moment when I lost my faith in3400:03:07,579 --> 00:03:12,067Jesus Christ�in God, in fact�and with that my rebellion began.3500:03:12,323 --> 00:03:15,618I think it's entirely normal, we see it everywhere,3600:03:15,851 --> 00:03:18,008in every corner of the world, people who begin3700:03:18,291 --> 00:03:24,067their rebellious years at age 14, 15, or 16,3800:03:24,353 --> 00:03:30,162but for me it lasted a very long time. In fact, for me it lasted3900:03:30,448 --> 00:03:33,885right up until my adult conversion at thirty-nine years of age,4000:03:34,172 --> 00:03:39,193so, it was a long rebellion, and I am ashamed of that.4100:03:39,477 --> 00:03:44,366But I have read somewhere that it's like a contract.4200:03:44,652 --> 00:03:49,025All my rebellion and such is like a contract that I have with4300:03:49,306 --> 00:03:53,002Jesus, with God, in order that I never forget what He did for me,4400:03:53,283 --> 00:03:57,604and that it's clear that I am weak and poor4500:03:57,862 --> 00:03:59,618and that I need to be saved.4600:03:59,898 --> 00:04:07,874So that's it. I lived a total of 39 years before my conversion,4700:04:08,154 --> 00:04:12,387but I lived 25 of those years as an atheist.4800:04:14,303 --> 00:04:16,594�Who then is God to love us so, son of the Earth?� (prayer)4900:04:16,878 --> 00:04:22,106>>Fr. Martin: How, then, do you see the atheist life?5000:04:22,388 --> 00:04:23,994Tell me a little about that.5100:04:24,274 --> 00:04:30,778>>David: I see the atheist life very clearly, now. In the past5200:04:31,064 --> 00:04:34,777I lived the atheist life in a state of complete confusion.5300:04:35,056 --> 00:04:42,202To be an atheist, as I myself was, is to say that the world is5400:04:42,485 --> 00:04:47,459absurd. �I am. I am the source of my own existence.5500:04:47,743 --> 00:04:50,260I am god, in a certain sense, and there is no explanation.5600:04:50,542 --> 00:04:54,330I am a lost god, a god who is dreaming,5700:04:54,613 --> 00:04:58,673I am a god who imagines, who creates. I am a god, and5800:04:58,989 --> 00:05:03,317all the suffering on the news and so forth is not real.5900:05:03,553 --> 00:05:07,138There is no suffering. I am not suffering. I exist,6000:05:07,417 --> 00:05:10,730and the world around me is just a video game.�6100:05:11,014 --> 00:05:19,083That is the absurdity of the atheist life. I lived in this absurdity6200:05:19,393 --> 00:05:24,930and for me it was magnificent because it was reality�the6300:05:25,210 --> 00:05:29,874fundamental reality was absurdity. Now I am converted to God,6400:05:30,152 --> 00:05:35,037thanks to philosophy and much reading.6500:05:35,317 --> 00:05:42,412And I attacked the Christian Church, I targeted the bible6600:05:42,687 --> 00:05:46,098saying to myself �Oh, this really is nonsense, it's so stupid.�6700:05:46,374 --> 00:05:50,333And so I attacked the bible, God, Jesus and the Church.6800:05:50,607 --> 00:05:54,666I read a lot about the history of the Catholic Church6900:05:54,944 --> 00:05:58,402and the Popes and all kinds of things, in order to target them,7000:05:58,681 --> 00:06:04,761to mock them, to undermine all this bull. Excuse my language.7100:06:05,041 --> 00:06:10,042But, that's it; it was a hatred of these so called truths,7200:06:10,321 --> 00:06:14,481because for me the only truth was absurdity.7300:06:16,698 --> 00:06:18,779�I am God and not a man.� (Hosea 11: 9)7400:06:19,090 --> 00:06:23,922...Now I am converted to God, so I see atheism differently.7500:06:24,201 --> 00:06:29,105I see atheism all around me�it's everywhere.7600:06:29,391 --> 00:06:36,890I see it as a lack of hope, a lack of faith, and a lack7700:06:37,174 --> 00:06:43,949�just that, a lack. So, that's it. I see it differently.7800:06:46,572 --> 00:06:50,041�God created man in his own image.� (Genesis 1: 27)7900:06:50,324 --> 00:06:54,666>>Fr. Martin: Give me a concrete example8000:06:54,949 --> 00:06:56,826of this absurdity that you lived, a concrete event�8100:06:57,110 --> 00:06:58,842>>David: Sin! In a word, sin. I do what I will.8200:06:59,077 --> 00:07:06,954�My will be done� was my daily prayer.8300:07:07,247 --> 00:07:11,537�My will be done on Earth and there is no Heaven.�8400:07:11,799 --> 00:07:20,900Heaven is a myth, God is a myth, and Satan is a myth.8500:07:21,182 --> 00:07:25,234So I played with these myths, saying,8600:07:25,544 --> 00:07:30,497�Well, I think that Christianity is a lie, God is a lie,8700:07:30,778 --> 00:07:35,676and Satan is a lie�but at least Satan has power over the Earth.8800:07:35,918 --> 00:07:41,801And I know the Earth, I live on Earth. I have pleasure, I have food,8900:07:42,088 --> 00:07:47,225I have drink, I have sex�I have everything here on Earth.9000:07:47,509 --> 00:07:50,382So hail Satan!� Because here, according to the9100:07:50,670 --> 00:07:56,841Christian mythology, I said to myself, it's the domain of Satan9200:07:57,124 --> 00:08:00,962here on Earth, so hail Satan! Because it is here that we have life.9300:08:01,254 --> 00:08:06,274The good life is not in Heaven; it's boring up there,9400:08:06,516 --> 00:08:10,826because God is stupid, and so on. So, having all this in my head,9500:08:11,116 --> 00:08:15,466this atheistic philosophy, created in me9600:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,433a sort of tongue-in-cheek Satanism.9700:08:20,703 --> 00:08:26,025Because only I existed�only I was God. So it is sin,9800:08:26,308 --> 00:08:32,275but it's not referred to as sin, it's simply my will. I do what I will.9900:08:33,786 --> 00:08:36,898�The lost sheep I will seek, until found.� (Ezekiel 34: 16)10000:08:37,434 --> 00:08:41,460And, in fact, we can see this attitude in the atheists of our day;10100:08:41,743 --> 00:08:47,955they don't have any solid reason to be good. If I ask them,10200:08:48,235 --> 00:08:51,427�Why are you good?� they will answer,10300:08:51,706 --> 00:08:57,029�Because if I choose actions which are criminal or hurtful,10400:08:57,312 --> 00:09:03,683there will be negative reactions and consequences.10500:09:03,963 --> 00:09:08,962So it's hazardous.� It�s just a pragmatic choice, really.10600:09:09,236 --> 00:09:15,761And when I was atheist I didn't kill anyone or do any big crimes,10700:09:16,041 --> 00:09:18,337or huge sins. I committed the ordinary little sins,10800:09:18,585 --> 00:09:21,842because I knew that, even though life is a merely a game,10900:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,729there are consequences to my actions,11000:09:24,957 --> 00:09:28,032and that it's not worth committing great evil11100:09:28,310 --> 00:09:30,347because it will have a negative reaction.11200:09:30,623 --> 00:09:36,196So, I believed, somehow, in science and in consequences11300:09:36,475 --> 00:09:39,401and all that. But, to put it in rough terms, I can say that11400:09:39,681 --> 00:09:45,138the absurdity of atheism is sin.11500:09:48,106 --> 00:09:52,809�Even if your sins are as red as scarlet...�11600:09:53,363 --> 00:09:56,402�...I will make them as white as snow.� (Isaiah 1: 18)11700:10:00,698 --> 00:10:01,915�Come, Holy Spirit of consolation.� (Catholic prayer)11800:10:02,242 --> 00:10:06,451After having found God: - and I remember exactly11900:10:06,696 --> 00:10:10,179and precisely the moment when I changed12000:10:10,459 --> 00:10:15,620from atheist to monotheist; it was a precise moment in time,12100:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,196I was in bed with my wife reading, because I always read in bed12200:10:19,430 --> 00:10:24,842before going to sleep. I was reading my book,12300:10:25,115 --> 00:10:27,675which happened to be Rene Descartes.12400:10:28,250 --> 00:10:30,607�I think, therefore I am.� (Ren� Descartes)12500:10:30,888 --> 00:10:35,826I remember that moment when I found God.12600:10:36,119 --> 00:10:37,706I finally understood who God is.12700:10:37,990 --> 00:10:44,625And just like that I was converted. Afterwards it took me12800:10:44,907 --> 00:10:50,772a couple of weeks to understand because, ok, I have God,12900:10:51,061 --> 00:10:54,636but what do I do now? Am I Muslim? Am I Jewish?13000:10:54,916 --> 00:10:58,399Am I Christian? Above all I didn't want to be Christian...13100:11:02,118 --> 00:11:04,198�I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink.� (Matthew 25: 42)13200:11:04,481 --> 00:11:07,299But I read The Confessions of Saint Augustine.13300:11:07,625 --> 00:11:11,953�Our hearts are restless until they rest in you.� (St. Augustine)13400:11:12,231 --> 00:11:16,322A friend of mine had an upstairs neighbour13500:11:16,605 --> 00:11:19,298who died in a fire when his apartment burned�13600:11:19,689 --> 00:11:27,682They found a box of religious books, and my friend gave it to me,13700:11:27,967 --> 00:11:30,338so I had all of these books.13800:11:30,620 --> 00:11:33,282They were all covered with black ashes.13900:11:33,566 --> 00:11:38,642And one of those books I was reading after having found God;14000:11:38,921 --> 00:11:42,145it was the Confessions of St-Augustine.14100:11:43,659 --> 00:11:46,665And so, when I read that I was really bowled over14200:11:46,949 --> 00:11:49,906because now I know who God is, and Augustine,14300:11:50,191 --> 00:11:52,618a Catholic of the fourth and fifth centuries,14400:11:52,904 --> 00:11:57,201he spoke directly to my heart, and he spoke to me frankly14500:11:57,489 --> 00:12:01,347about his sins, and it was very human. I understood immediately14600:12:01,621 --> 00:12:05,458that the God of Catholicism was my God.14700:12:08,994 --> 00:12:13,915So I converted to Catholicism. And I was particularly fortunate14800:12:14,189 --> 00:12:21,170to have a Catholic friend, a monk called Brother Benoit David,14900:12:21,460 --> 00:12:27,346who is now Father Benoit David; he's now a priest15000:12:27,616 --> 00:12:34,065in Warsaw, Poland. But in any case, one day he came into15100:12:34,343 --> 00:12:37,525the store where I was working as a computer technician.15200:12:37,808 --> 00:12:42,508I chatted with him and asked him questions, I asked if15300:12:42,791 --> 00:12:47,745I could come and visit the monastery to speak more about God.15400:12:48,026 --> 00:12:52,515And it is he who provided my religious instruction.15500:12:52,797 --> 00:12:57,178That's how I came to learn about Jesus.15600:12:59,838 --> 00:13:06,970I never stop advancing toward the Lord,15700:13:07,254 --> 00:13:11,546and toward deeper understanding and faith.15800:13:11,821 --> 00:13:14,411�But who do you say that I am?� (Luke 9: 20)15900:13:15,620 --> 00:13:18,370But it's all based on my conversion to God the Father.16000:13:20,075 --> 00:13:23,733�You shall seek me, and find me, when you shall search for me with all your heart.� (Jeremiah 29: 13)16100:13:24,771 --> 00:13:28,962>>Fr. Martin: So, this brother Benoit contributed a lot.16200:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,666Which community does he belong to?16300:13:32,943 --> 00:13:37,635>>David: He's part of the Monastic Fraternity of Jerusalem,16400:13:37,916 --> 00:13:41,901which was founded recently in France.16500:13:42,184 --> 00:13:45,851It's a very young organization, I don't know their exact history,16600:13:46,137 --> 00:13:50,050but it's an urban community, with urban monasteries.16700:13:50,334 --> 00:13:53,628They pray for the city, they live in cities, all over the world.16800:13:53,906 --> 00:14:00,041There aren't that many, maybe six or so around the world.16900:14:00,318 --> 00:14:02,740I don't know how many cities they are in, but they exist17000:14:02,966 --> 00:14:06,965here in Montreal, in Paris, in Warsaw, and a couple of17100:14:07,243 --> 00:14:11,418other cities. But they were very open and very hospitable,17200:14:11,695 --> 00:14:19,656and to this day I spend a lot of time there.17300:14:19,933 --> 00:14:25,018I love their Eucharistic celebration...17400:14:46,002 --> 00:14:49,890...When I was merely monotheist but moving17500:14:50,181 --> 00:14:59,338towards Christianity with the monks, I attended a mass17600:14:59,616 --> 00:15:02,610without participating, because I was not yet Catholic,17700:15:02,896 --> 00:15:06,673and I realized that they worship my recently discovered God.17800:15:06,955 --> 00:15:10,578�It's my God and I want to participate,17900:15:10,863 --> 00:15:16,773I want to become Catholic, I want to partake of the Eucharist,18000:15:17,067 --> 00:15:21,963and all that, even if it is so far beyond me, this mystery.�18100:15:22,251 --> 00:15:27,793Even today it's beyond me. I don't understand all the details18200:15:28,073 --> 00:15:31,524of the trinity, the incarnation, the Eucharist, the real-presence18300:15:31,805 --> 00:15:35,706of Jesus Christ under the forms of bread and wine. But I say yes.18400:15:35,985 --> 00:15:39,372I say yes to all of the doctrines of the Catholic Church.18500:15:39,649 --> 00:15:43,866I do a lot of reading, the Catechism of the Catholic Church,18600:15:44,147 --> 00:15:49,937Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, the Bible,18700:15:50,222 --> 00:15:52,754The Imitation of Christ; I read a lot.18800:15:53,043 --> 00:16:01,347And I have never rejected anything Catholic, not one thing.18900:16:01,630 --> 00:16:04,427I say yes to it all, because until now19000:16:04,703 --> 00:16:07,713I have never found anything in the Church which bothers me19100:16:07,994 --> 00:16:10,146or which I cannot accept.19200:16:11,013 --> 00:16:14,162>>Fr. Martin: Now, since we are discussing your conversion19300:16:14,445 --> 00:16:17,066and faith, let's address your encounter with Jesus Christ.19400:16:17,344 --> 00:16:20,995In your life-experience, in your relations with others,19500:16:21,277 --> 00:16:26,981with your neighbour�your wife, your friends, from19600:16:27,259 --> 00:16:33,620the past, present, or future, and all the people around you�19700:16:33,905 --> 00:16:38,498tell me about one of your most pleasant experiences.19800:16:38,753 --> 00:16:40,827You mean as a result of being Christian, being Catholic?19900:16:41,057 --> 00:16:43,908>>Fr. Martin: With Jesus, as a result of this encounter with Jesus.20000:16:44,190 --> 00:16:54,425>>David: Well, when I had three or four months20100:16:54,710 --> 00:16:57,807of religious instruction and I was confirmed in20200:16:58,086 --> 00:17:06,506the Catholic Church by Bishop Jude St-Antoine�20300:17:06,787 --> 00:17:08,154I'm not sure of his full name, I think that's it�20400:17:08,439 --> 00:17:15,274but, I was confirmed into the Catholic Church20500:17:15,556 --> 00:17:25,186a little over two years ago now, and it's only now that20600:17:25,466 --> 00:17:29,062I really notice the effects of the Holy Spirit in the confirmation,20700:17:29,324 --> 00:17:34,011because my faith is growing.20800:17:34,296 --> 00:17:39,297And even though I always said yes to the doctrines20900:17:39,574 --> 00:17:43,330and all the dogmas and everything I had read,21000:17:43,608 --> 00:17:46,737and although I always said yes, yes, yes to everything intellectually,21100:17:47,023 --> 00:17:51,170now with the confirmation that I received,21200:17:51,454 --> 00:17:56,511with its attendant chrismation and the laying on of hands,21300:17:56,788 --> 00:18:02,793I have a certain spiritual experience, a kind of strength or force21400:18:03,073 --> 00:18:10,578which I can't easily describe or name, but I believe that21500:18:10,860 --> 00:18:13,874it is the Holy Spirit working within me. It's very mysterious,21600:18:14,149 --> 00:18:22,387but there you go. It's an encounter with Truth.21700:18:22,666 --> 00:18:29,291That's the only way I can describe it without falling into pride,21800:18:29,512 --> 00:18:36,262and without claiming to fully understand it; I don't understand it�21900:18:36,484 --> 00:18:38,674it's God! I don't know what else to say.22000:18:38,898 --> 00:18:43,654It's difficult for me to describe. But in my personal relationships22100:18:43,883 --> 00:18:49,328I have a kind of strength, which I perhaps manage poorly22200:18:49,574 --> 00:18:53,947because I'm new to the faith, and I'm a weak human being,22300:18:54,157 --> 00:18:57,373and a sinner, and all that. So, it may be that I'm sometimes22400:18:57,590 --> 00:19:03,163out of control, and I often I see myself taking the Gospel22500:19:03,362 --> 00:19:07,986like a weapon, in order to massacre my atheist friends22600:19:08,106 --> 00:19:16,722with the spoken word, and syllogisms, medieval proofs,22700:19:16,930 --> 00:19:23,269and things like that, because I'm still in an intellectual phase,22800:19:23,393 --> 00:19:27,322even though the Spirit wants to move my heart.22900:19:27,434 --> 00:19:32,636But I pray every day that my heart may be opened23000:19:32,769 --> 00:19:36,813and touched by God's love, in order to melt the ice23100:19:36,919 --> 00:19:44,795that surrounds my heart�and that my wife may see God's love,23200:19:44,906 --> 00:19:49,810and that she may believe, as I do, in God, that God is good.23300:19:57,202 --> 00:20:00,982�I chose you before the foundation of the world.� (Ephesians 1: 4)