Catholic vs. Atheist - 2017-02-18 - Alex Steer

Author Recorded Saturday February 18th, 2017

There are 47 episodes in the Versus:Atheist series.

Recorded February 9th, 2019

Catholic vs. Atheist - 2019-02-09 - Greg

Recorded September 11th, 2016

Catholic vs. Atheist - 2016-09-11 - Renaud

Alex is from Australia. We met for the first time at a 'Skeptics in the Pub' meetup, and then he joined my Catholic vs. meetup group. For this interview we chatted in his kitchen while drinking beer and eating chips.


Catholic vs. Atheist - 2017-02-18 - Alex Steer

Author Recorded July 30th, 2016

audio


video

transcript
These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
hi I'm Alex and you're listening to Catholic versus atheist tell the audience a little bit about yourself who you are what you believe in why you believe it sure well my name is Alex steer I grew up in melbourne australia but then it almost my entire life 24 years and i am an atheist now how I got to be in an atheist let something to hear of a Christian or something like that right and then the first thing has its really hard time transitioning to a season because they've got these precious and their parents and whatnot but for me my parents didn't raise me to be an atheist but they didn't raise me to be anything we just we never talked about God once not even once even though there were what three churches and a mosque on the street that I think it's ridiculous so when my friends talked about it even like 10 again I was like what am I talking about like they must be right climb the Christmas is real and these guys were talking about I know there's someone up in the clouds God in heaven up there like okay they must be true yeah sure I really hadn't explored that world at all right so then I think when I was about 16 and high school I was actually rejected by a girl because well because she said her parents weren't a letter because she was a Christian like apparently she really wanted to choose cry afterwards and she's like our current dead cards because of the Christian my trying to allow me and I was like what that's crazy that's not looked into a bit more and i was like classical to actually believe that is crazy as to be crazy then I researched it more like I had ice and I can atheist chemicals gone through sorry go on their stories going so have you ever stepped inside of a church or synagogue or a mosque or anything like that yes yeah a few times the first time on to a church was youth group in high schools probably about 14 or 15 so my very good friends from primary school has n I went to high school with no ago I always come to youth group which in Australia is just a group of young people who go to a church and they just do different fun activities like go rollerblading and ice skating throw darts eight party pods you know all those typically and sometimes we did read from the Bible but i just i think i was looking at it just like as complete scan offices like this is like this is so weird because like the Secession trust refined oils i could gain something and the pages are so it's in there really like that women in the Bible like once we classify my attention that most i was in leading i'm just a fast got the tapered so said so it may call me oblivious but when they were talking about Moses and married stuff like that I was just like please like I that fun i'm here for doc after that yeah so how would you describe your philosophical journey from 15 year old to today and it's actually only nine years tray yes absolutely did you become a hardcore atheist at any point yeah so there's no question so yeah I think there's a comedian who said there are two types of a CSO and there really are the bad atheist and the good ideas oh and he said the bad ACS is someone who doesn't want to go to see his church friends and I don't want to go inside a church and I don't intend to do with religion at all alright so they're like very close-minded I would say and very like like religion or phobic they don't want anything to do with it yes I was probably one of those for a while but then the good atheist for the ones who like more you know like am now going to converse with people go inside churches and you know talk about you know rationally and not get into arguments every small time and I became you know this more lovey WACS I guess oh my hair I guess I could say from watching the show called the atheist experience at all ever seen it before no yeah it's a wonderful show calls go in asking their questions and know how to squeeze their answers and that's pretty much it I'm going to fly balls of episode it's it's fantastic so I watch that and I was like yes the right like their rights disturbance what role did book learning and philosophy in particular play in your worldview has it played anymore yeah I would say absolutely not because the Atheist position is basically it's like the null position we don't have to do anything okay historicity to see us who have to give me their arguments and back up their items of evidence and reason enough for me to believe it how do you view science mathematics logic reasoning and critical thinking these sorts of things how do you them well as a math and science teacher I think that they are these things that we should be worrying about today they should be more of a focus on stem subjects which is science technology engineering your maps in schools because that's what's going to progress for mankind and I can contrast that with religions which I don't think it going to improve mankind I want to contrast your perspective on science and technology and last a little bit of thing with your perspective on your mother's love for you how do you see those two worlds well I would say that they are completely different unfortunately my mom passed away a few months ago and I chose all I'm sure yeah no that's okay so that was a bit of an experience which is it was very seventh so you know I thought about that as well and how that comes into a tease and minutes harder as an atheist to deal with death because to me she is just gone you know but she had managed to help 40 people by donating her organs and tissues so that's great but probably to you as somebody dies they would be up in the heaven looking down on you is that right or purgatory or in hell purgatory suppose like on a very difficult help i fergit not you once you're in purgatory you're in you're safe you're going to you just being purified but yet so I like to think that most people go to heaven but the church does not say what the relative populations of having it right at all will not comment on that because the church doesn't know and books two dozen years old how could it be the selfish purposes we and we we're not a Bible a long church we have a living Magisterium which is connected to tradition their Sacred Scripture and the sacred tradition the Protestant Christians only have the dusty old book that they rely on our fundamentals I'm Catholic fundamentalist custom I don't know what that means ok ok I take everything the Bible is little fat there's no error in the Bible and there is no contradiction in the level in terms of faith and morals of course there's plenty of stuff in the Bible like people doing around thing people making mistakes and just people being people you know but in terms of faith and morals there's no error now how I I just think morals behind you at 2,000 years ago it was a lot different today absolutely entirely there are differences there also similarities the sort of level of historical and cultural knowledge that you would need to assess some of these stories is beyond our capability so there is a certain amount of ignorance that we have when faced with the problem with interpretation and there are layers and layers of meaning so there's a lot of freedom there's more freedom actually in Dublin interpretation than you probably think we have a living Church which means that they have a lot of stuff that was handed on orally that's not written and that gets passed along down to the present day sounds like Chinese whispers hey yeah that's why we need infallibility because otherwise what happens with Chinese whispers my pointer yeah without divine protection it's impossible that the truth will be maintained for 2,000 years plus right so there is divine protection is divine protecting because the church tells me the church tells me that it's infallible before we get too deep into my Lisa fact I'd like to talk about your legal failure you comfortable with that yeah I don't have a later phase yes you do the place that you take is into what the philosopher called naive realism okay naive realism is well yeah the world is real of course the other is real of course my mother is real my father's we owe my dog is real my cats real there's absolutely no scientific basis for that it's not a scientific conclusion it is a leap of faith there is absolutely no scientific basis for believing in the other and in real world the only thing you can doubt your senses can you not yes have you ever dreamt dreams yeah all you can talk about it your strength is but that's what's being questioned how senses are function about Brian how do you know that you have a break because I'm alive but set with my own brother who's having his first baby boy and very excited to be an uncle in a few months taking watch as his body develops inside his fiancee swim but they're watching with the census that's my point you have heard through your ears that you have a brain you've seen textbooks with your eyes that say you have a brain you've also seen with your eyes pictures of this alleged brain maybe you've licked the brain if you ask you have the opportunity I don't know maybe you've pasted bringing I have to have such principal you touch bring it in an enemy lives absolutely okay yeah so you have lots and lots of sensory so-called evidence right but you can't affirm the evidence for the expenses on the basis of your sentences that that is absurd that that's a very funny comic which is a picture of someone's brain and at the top it says the brain is the most important part of the body at the bottom it was according to the brain hahaha it feels like a booty like a brains like protect me i'm going to support a more intense i can think a regular reason absolutely this but it's a very true comic but the thing is we are so intelligent we nearly near infinitely intelligent but you're telling me that if you cut up in someone's head and there might be a chance they have no brain that's the 1i very wrong have you seen the truman show yes okay so there's this idea that it's all a lie and you know what socialism is so what solecism is is not a human that has a brain and a head and the neck and a torso and for limb it's not a biological human that says hey I'm the only one no it's a disembodied existence that has a fantasy that life entails biological component to the Buddhist only the mind Israel among the Buddha the one mind separation is an illusion that's one of the causes of suffering we have to escape sufferings we have to get beyond this illusion of separateness let's go to reality what is reality there's one mind the mind of Buddha and that one mind has this fragmented dream and those fragments which we call Alex and David ready into those fragments are suffering and if leadless let's go back to the one mind let's get back integrated and that to me is indistinguishable from solecism solecism says there's one mind it's my mind I am the one I am God you know and there is no heaven and hell for the solid sisters will heaven and hell for the Buddhists ultimately there's only God and therefore there's only heaven there is no morality there is no consequence no lasting consequences or real consequence to any of the choices that we make so my point was talking to you about Buddhism is to say that look we're all in the same boat you have a worldview you have a story oh of course the brain is real i went to the more going to cut his head off and i saw bring but the Buddhist have a story too and the Catholics have a story too and it's all based on that initial question what is real and what is not which one is more evidence which story what is evidence that's the question is for the Buddha evidence for the Buddhist that's all part of the show that's all part of the grand illusion that doesn't have a scientific evidence of what are you talking about scientific evidence is precisely part of the separation illusion that is part of suffering that they want to escape from the Buddhist wants to speak to the science because science is part of that seduction into okay the real world is real look I don't get the core can you smell the death can you touch the brains look this is reality right and they're saying oh my god I'm getting seduced into the dark side and I almost want to believe that it's real because there's a theist secular Western man is showing me a corpse that it's so overwhelming it seems real yes so they need to go back and center and meditate and say that was all just illusion that soldiers separation that's all just the source of suffering okay let's just make nothing mind about something that's wrong record exists it does it's self-evident for you we should be self-evident for everybody yeah okay yeah okay so you really neva Lucien I believe in certain times of evolution yeah yeah the part the grace of evolution so the church hasn't come down on a really hard stance on it they're they're open about it I'm skeptical but the church is very adamant that there's no contradiction possible in principle there's no contradiction possible between faith and reason between science and religion or about the Bible there's no contradiction possible it is an apparent contradiction it has to be resolved it doesn't have to be resolved but in crucible it is revolver will what about the first few words God created everything I believe that but that is in conflict in science how so even the big bang theory yeah that's a Catholic priest licking off specter do we assume that there is a rational explanation for that or do we just say oh it just happened what's the more scientific attitude whoa Russia yeah right there must be a sufficient cause to explain that it doesn't just happen right you don't believe in the supernatural God you believe in a natural absolute you believe that what's taking place in your mind is the natural effect of the natural causes going back in a chain all the way to that first cause and that first cause they done cause and that first cause is what we call God Wow yeah that was a huge leap but what I'm thinking is what ninety five to seven scientists agree with that something like the Big Bang happened yeah right and that's where the letter came from Oh or you think there's a scientific explanation for all matter came from you really live it the big bang theory yeah you think that the big bang theory posits an explanation for how something came from nothing use the first person I met who are really good ol independent scientific said yes everything came from this one point here but what they're trying to do now is determine how that happened and that's where quantum physics has also come in lawrence krauss is going to book called something from nothing like how we can get something from nothing quantum fluctuations which is a beautiful thing to study in science do you know by the way that quantum fields are not nothing I haven't researched if i told you that there's a quantum field and that in that quantum field when the conditions are right particles can arise do you see the quantum field as nothing or do you see it as something i don't know i don't know i know i know that a quantum fields is not nothing i know that you know how I know it you're a quantum physicist well I've studied quantum physics at the University true but that's not the reason I know it I know it as it just as a rational eighth-grader I know that a quantum field is not nothing a corn field is not nothing electromagnetic field is not nothing right these are not nothing they're not nothing you don't need a PhD to understand that a question I hope it's not another thing I've never heard of the term quantum field okay well well this is where something comes from nothing quote unquote semin you ate yet well they're desperate to find an explanation for how something came from nothing why because they don't want God so they have to have a scientific explanation I a problem is that there is no scientific explanation because it's not a scientific question the domain of science doesn't permit asking that question we only deal with the stuff wanted here and we start with that thing that expands and this is how it expands and this is what we observe and it's not going to thank for us but it's a philosophical religious question how it got there from nothing and deposit the quantum field as nothing is completely dishonest well what gives you the right to say it's not scientific it's the same thing as anything you know what it's only time so definitely it's philosophy or religion at all what is saying tell me what factors not letting you answer your own question what is x what do you think it's the sampling and collection of data that when trial and repeated you get the same result what is data well I just answered sandwich idris information that we've gathered through doings back would you consider nothing data by definition the original data in nothing there is no data there we don't it's outside the realm of science because science deals with why the inside there are more philosophy it is nothing there why do you because philosophy transcends science philosophy is a higher science than the physical sciences any in your world view is natural science the highest science in a natural fire where the most all the ice is the natural there's no social science well thats i'm sure that's a different side when you think about mathematics and anything about music sure is one subordinate to the other yes or no i don't think we can determine we know for a fact that music drivers principles from mathematics we know that it's the same thing with biology and physics which one is higher which one is the higher science biology or physics they say that which one of you is applied physics and biology is applied chemistry you nut yeah so there is a hierarchy there's a hierarchy of sciences right so this is my point and above the natural sciences is philosophy and above philosophy is theology and involves theology is God Almighty what are the exceptions to cause an effect and how are they scientific for you this is not something that I excuse have to think about I'm asking you to think about it right because the reason lasting there think about it is because it leaves you to believing in God and if you don't want to believe in God then don't think about it but if you're open minded if you're skeptical then just find a reasonable answer to my question doesn't have to be today it could be in 10 years now but think about it and find out is everything one hundred percent determined by natural cause and effect or not and if you say not then you're introducing the supernatural by definition can I do what my body lesson to the vs well it's all obeying the principle of natural cotton effect what is the vein biological fine yeah there's no exception you're not violating any of the laws of biology chemistry physics or any other science show that let's go on to the next one and let's just say yeah you agree so you're a hard determine if you don't believe in real freedom there's just the illusion of freedom no I can seem like these days whenever I want to check your hot pink district office there is it was it was rise to that decision inside it was in a closed okay so there is a natural cause so that's my point okay so Adam and AIDS what's that the church obliges us to believe that we descend from one human couple that's preposterous if we all had to inbreed from two people we would have died out the years ago that's what would happen we both got all those bad traits because we have a higher chance of getting bad traits and we would have died off a couple of generations in right so that view is ridiculous and it's unscientific and impossible can ask you a simple question in general about science has science ever corrected itself in other words they thought something was true and then they discovered that there was more nuanced than that they were all the time okay so in principle you want to admit that maybe you're not on a percent certain about your argument that we can't come from on human bear no sighs has come a long way in the past 100 years now we have the tools which we didn't have it in pop what percentage are certainly do you have that we don't come from one human pair it's a hundred percent approaching hundred or really 100 1100 I there is simply no that doesn't seem scientific to me doesn't seem skeptical to me it is right because there is no way you can have the genetic diversity we have today from just two human being that's what you keep saying yes yeah there was no possible yeah kind of present sir okay okay it's simply impossible and you have to present your argument in ways that can be scientifically proven which they can't be sorry the prison god first example where did God come from he is uncaused hmm convenient it's not convenient you have to admit that there is a first cause an uncaused cause you have to admit that because you admitted reluctantly and ambiguous lee that everything is natural Kozma fecht and that if you go back and back and back and back and back and back there are two alternatives it can keep going intimately or there's a first cause which is itself I'm cause from which all the other causing effects slow right that chain and closet and effect have to hang on a first cause which is on cause that is what we call God and you have to admit that that is necessary because if you deny it in denying it you're positing that there's an infinite chain of cause and effect which is untenable because of entropy because we're approaching he dead and a finite amount of time will accomplish that heat death and therefore if there's an infinite amount of time behind us which you would have to pause it to say that there's an infinite chain of cause and effect right why I haven't said that at all ok so you acknowledge the first us which is the God that I worship and it's anything that it was called well you just need you said it's not an infinite changing of cause and effect therefore there's a first cause it's either there's a first cause or there's not a first college miss there's not a first cause it's an infinite chain of cause and effect so so one day ninety-five percent of scientists agree that's something similar to the Big Bang hacked I believe in the Big Bang so God is just and he created the Big Bang yeah God created the universe and the universe let me live in many other because otherwise I would have to pause it and in turn the channel positive effect why and that's untenable because every effect has a cause and if we say this effect was caused by this and that in turn was the effective the thing that came before it either that goes on infinitely back in time or there's a first part and that first cause is what we call God and if you deny there's first cause then you are necessarily logically saying that there's an infinite chain of cause and effect and that is logically untenable leads contradiction therefore we rejected therefore we admit there's a first cause and that's what we call God so I had a friend once and she was sexually active in high school I think Alana joints were very Catholic and when her parents thought that she was having sex in high school they put her in a circle of people at church and cast the demon syllabus verbally which i think is charlie b's imagine have any urges as a young woman right even told you I'm trial after suppress these could you above the Catholic faith but these natural biological urges that you feel to help your species reproduce and that's what our function is the lightest to reproduce you want to have sex with every guy but then your parents shame you and then you're in a circle of people and thanking as a demon inside you that is beyond immoral to a young girl who is cisco entered puberty and wants to have sex because she's a human being and it's one of the problems of faith which is sexual suppression insane sexual oppression people get married too quickly because they wanted sex at least they can and he had religion telling them to do the exact opposite I ever catch the guy view the world as fallen which means that we were made perfect in the perfect paradise with Garden of Eden so am I am i evil in the mile you're good by nature evil by choice just like in a while did this imposter Adams semen which is actually what they think no I don't think it passes Cuba actually never heard that well how would i get into the baby it's a supernatural thing supernatural silicon yeah scientifically it's supernatural and suspect you believe in the supernatural too but you haven't admitted it to me okay it's supernatural outside of the natural world above I like to think about it like when I program a video game you go on my website and claim a little game and their interactions and you have certain amount of freedom that you can do we make choices and get results and you can get points and stuff like that okay but as the programmer I have a lot of power and a lot of freedom so that's how I think about God and supernatural in relation to his creation God can like make it a little exception that i can walk through the wall and i can fly in the air and i can walk on water and i can raise you from the dead and i can do all the sort of stuff because he's at that high level you know just like the programmer with the game and there's a perfectly reasonable explanation but it's a higher order it's a higher level then most people want to playing the game they don't get to experience that because it's like the programmer did some trick you know so that's the supernatural it's not some kind of so anti science thing know that God is the source of science but he's above science and he can make these little exceptions you know so I just wanted to clarify that about the supernatural okay I think all that BS but she has expected now I just wanted to talk a little bit about Catholicism sexuality if you have any questions about it no I add for most of it is that they have one sec Charlie they say no give me an example well for one no sex before marriage I think is that point okay I don't know what to say in response I think it's a wholesome and healthy doctrine that protects the family how do you see family well we're probably the best way that I'm kidding draw basic education before they go up to school stuff like that you would agree that there's all that opportunity for growth protection love absolutely yeah that's deeply and intimately connected to old the Church's teachings about family about sexuality everything that you love and cherish of a family the church is fighting for you to have more of that in society and it's not popular why because like you said biology we have instincts and we want to we want to reproduce we want to do but sure there's a first of all there's this thing called self control and there's this thing called reason and we can't just indulge every urge that we have we can't on the other hand I have to admit that we live in a fallen world and that we're not marrying as young as we used to and that creates a lot of tension and a lot of problems and we have problems with our education system we have problems with their families you look at the problem and nightmarish scenario is arise where little girls are getting these fake exorcisms or whatever they are and people maybe have good intentions maybe they don't but it ain't workin out too well for that kid you know she's traumatized she can be messed up for life she could end up killing yourself so I admit that there are all kinds of ways to go wrong and a lot of that can be blamed on the sinners in the church for example the pedophile priests sure they weren't living up to the standards that they sign up that were unreal Catholics like there could be two pedophile priests one could be repentant in the shower and one doesn't think he did anything wrong he says I going to be a Catholic always on Catholic so which one is he god only knows but the duct test is do I believe what the church proposes from my belief do I pray with the church and as the church proposes but I say do I follow the 10 commandments and the moral teachings of the church in principle and my agreement with them they do I strive to follow them with those three checkmarks I can say with confidence understand a confidence that I'm a Catholic how did you think your particular sect of Christianity well I had studied the history of the church and so I had already come to the conclusion as an enemy of control why aren't you a moment because I know the history of the church and I'd already come to the conclusion as may theists as my enemy of Christianity that Christianity is Catholicism and that everything else is a departure from that Mormonism is a departure from a departure from a departure so moment isn't complete there's truth in everything this is one of the Catholic teachings is that evil does not exist evil is the deprivation of the good it's like a it's like cold calls within if it's just a big legacy and when you have a healthy apple and you compare it with the rotten apple you see the rotten one it's almost like a place been taken out of it by those bacteria by demands by everything else and that is a good image of the evil the evil is like a parasite on the good and it's the lack of good and the Apple itself is good and it's the same thing with health and sickness health is the positive sickness is a lack of health and like you said with heat and cold I'm sort of thing so that's that's a basic principle of Catholic philosophy now men because I ask you some general questions about religion like do you have a favorite religion i annoy you put it on but I've always thought Buddhism because my calls every individual but did some research that have done killings before and then a new Buddhism so that's like wow that religions now okay because I've told the name of the gods comparatively everything has been any atheists who have killed someone because there isn't a god like in the name of there being no God yeah kind of kills more people though yeah but all that's been in the name because there is no god but yes I don't believe so yeah yeah I'll get into it I don't believe in rayray yeah it they kill people because they say doesn't know god I want to kill you yeah because it's a social engineering let's just clearing the slate and let's do it right this is killing in the name of atheistic materialism it's always the case this is built in to the philosophy of socialism and communism is built into it oh I'm an 80s I've never heard of a key signature your lips before let's talk about your debt what is the best case scenario that everything one of my organs can go to other people to help them survive that's the best case scenario how is that not the best case scenario you can't think of anything better what's better than helping human lives eternal joy fulfillment blues pleasure everything you could possibly want and more and more and more and more right how do you compare that scenario with your scenario you're annihilated and a couple of people get your organ which one's better my one of course what because we get to help humanity but I came to I have what you have and then more so which you refer given the fact that I have what you have em anymore if you see a loved one down in hell you're not going to be happy you're going to be said you're not going to be sad looking down people on hell what if my buttons there every person in hell chose to go to help okay the choice of the individual is not God saying you're good you're bad you call me go you know it's the choice of the individual if you are the love God you say yes to God and you had on him can you possibly know that the church kitchens me that and what we really live in the show Chelsea well it's a choice I can either believe or not believe I choose to believe right now is the leap of faith to go to God because he's everything that's good is a source of everything that's good i think it's a natural choice i'm surprised that you don't ignore my god i think is a dick that's why i want to go to his head let's talk about God for a little bit what is it you don't like about God okay well worn I don't hate him because he doesn't exist but if he did exist and he's the one giving us cancer he's not the sort some I'm evil oh well that's not the source of any evil a convenient it's by definition he is all good who made the Sun God who made our DNA god made us got perfect in the perfect garden of eden and we when we fell from grace we what may not have what is falling from grace digital bang God and then the consequences def disease or strife selfishness anchor well I'm disobeying God right to do so why it's not happening to me there is stuff happening to you like what I'm saying to happen to minor well you do you only believe what you can see when you rebel against God when you willingly decide to do the wrong thing you're choosing a lesser good like you know what the good thing is to do but you make it more selfish choice right there's damage being done to you when you do that and I do you know about karma in Hinduism yes it's a real thing it's not a row it's a real thing how do you know pot is causing effect I can't leave that at all of course you do you stick your finger in the fire what happens well yes you get burned it's cos gonna track that's Karma if that's where you define camera yeah then sure but karma in the sense that I learned to believe it is if you did something bad something bad happen to you later if you do something good or something good happen to you later that's what I just said it so why they go hand in the fire doing that it's just because I'm an idiot right now it's not bad though it's just me sticking my hand in boiling what I'm getting burned in fact you defined cameras then I guess that's common in your point of view sure it's just causing effect so I'm using a very concrete simple example where it's just you and a flame and you choose to do something stupid and you pay the price immediately but there are lots of situations where you're like oh I have a sexual urge and I'm going to act on it even though it's taboo it may not be an immediate punishment quote unquote and you know like when you stick your finger in the flame it may take years for that to manifest I mean are the tulip thing at all in principle I know it created a son right is the greatest humans in DNA so why do you make the Sun that negatively affect our DNA such that cause mutations it didn't originally mankind's do the two in films yeah what's an atom anees do that was so bad that it was unnecessarily June the rest of mankind with his play called cancer it's not enough wondering that was so bad nothing unnecessary there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything good and but it happens everything there's nothing happening by accident there's nothing random and everything that happens to you good and bad there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for all that in all makes sense and it's all God's grace all the good stuff is God's great and all the bad stuff comes from sin original sin your actual sin your parents actual sin your grandparents actual thing ever all it's all fitting together in this jigsaw puzzle perfectly and when you go to heaven and I hope you do and I think you will you will see all of that how it fits together beautifully magically and how you had freedom and at the same time everything oh what were quickly into place once i'm in heaven and i say a 10 year old who died because she was hit by car why did she get hit by a car why did God allow it to happen because he can bring good out of it that's the reason why God allows evil so my mother dying was a good thing from God's perspective yeah I don't have my god your perspective I acknowledge the subjective depths of sorrow and the heaviness of the evils of the world I acknowledge it I'm the human being I also acknowledge that whatever happens is good there's a dividing line between the past and the future and we're in the now and this applies also to sin when we look at the future we should not want to fall into temptation but once we do it's too late there's no point in building a complex about it forget it it's done go to confession and move on you don't need to build it into some kind of a big deal it's not a big deal a murderer could you get Vicki's repentance that fixed it but the dead person is back to work and everything so move over the world No the consequence is continued this is karma there are no consequence it comes with good according to you evil is not good evil is not a thing right for lack of good but the in the big story from God's point of view it's all playing out just as it should and once that murderer repents and gets forgiven it's done but there are still consequences that need to play out you know he's still going to suffer because of it I mean I hope he does not be well I and pretty natural isn't it like a sticky feel kinda fire each other system menu go to the jail just as it was a real thing yeah and in my I think we should talk about justice because in my world view and justice is perfectly achieved in your world view is just this achieved is that balance achieved perfectly as in my world it's a very complex issue and it's one that we should not derive from biblical sources is one that we should derive from talking rationally with a group of people there's no comments no faithless no ultimate thing that means everything will go back to just not right there's no mechanism to punish the guilty and to reward the good no absolutely not so let's talk about someone that you probably look down on us some kind of sick perverted monster criminal okay show he has engineered in a very genius clever way his whole life so that he appears to be a saint and a hero and the pillar of the community while at the same time secretly hiding every evidence that would expose the fact that he's driving all kinds of sexual pleasure power domination pleasure so he's getting all the stuff that we want pleasure money for a hour fame reputation love from the family and from the community he's getting everything that we want and a lot more than you're getting out of your life and a lot more than I'm getting out of my life and he lives a long life he died quietly in his bed at night and without God and without objective morality it's kind of hard to argue with the choices that this creature made because he can read Darwin too and he could say you know what this is fascinating I believe it or I don't believe it doesn't matter I'm not gonna do what I want to do anyway sure what so I think this is easy so I say it's a most of it it's easy what do you say about him you say the monster let's just sour grapes he's living the dream he is maximized his pleasure in all kinds of way that you never dreamed of like I mean you have never tasted the pleasures this guy's hat well he sounds like it is not the culture at all you do respect your conscience you do respect it because of you basically are you're a good Christian boy a lot of things I go to would hate especially not believing in him you're a mixed bag like all of us no I'm not the same as you no no no no no don't for the Solomon we're not in the same back here we know anywhere no I know you think that your ridden with mistakes and false yet but you're not right so stop looking down yourself that's one thing i hate about religious I view myself as a love label go but don't you feel derogatory that you think you're explain no well there's you can see who I think that run dingy there's a danger it's a danger to undermine myself in the wrong way yeah but there's another way where it's impossible to undervalue myself because I am absolutely nothing and are completely dependent on God for everything that's good I think that's very sad but it's just reality depend on God's everything you want me to the reality of stolen you need milk every on every breath every heartbeat is a gift from God no they get from your muscles and your nerves even Jesus says to himself I'm not a man I'm a worm God Almighty empty themselves and became human in all things in all weaknesses except for sir very weird yes we yeah i mean like it makes it a sensible it's the incarnation wow that's so it makes a lip sense now yeah I recession place is because got a man no the second person incarnated as a man right but there are many people who claim that God's in their God the hollers not a map go out he with other Christians that's what the radio shows for a bad it versus Catholic as inertial properties anything is the problem that many different religious sects have different opinions why do people have different opinions about everything it's because we're ignorant this one truth right well when it comes in the Bible it's thousands of these all written by different people who interpret it that's the question is there an authority is there an infallible authority that can tell you the interpretation of certain passages or not if there is then we have divine protection if there's not it's just human opinion if your opinion against mine as product sentence why don't you a Muslim they say Jesus was Muslim he didn't died on the cross there's plenty of evidence so you did dive across they say that the Christian writings are fabrications and corruption of the true teachings of Islam so there's a sort of rewriting of history it's just too much to believe as a scientific skeptical person I wouldn't call you a scientific skeptic if you believe the things you do believe about God you are dirtying the name of scientific skepticism that's what you think you are well I'm very skeptical science I'm physical science you're not a skeptic of religion I also i am skeptical of Catholicism are the things that you believe which at the same time that you believe it you're also watching and waiting for the possibility that you might be wrong so you can change your mind yes or no absolutely okay that's how I am with Christianity what if you read the death of Socrates I think you'll understand my Christian perspective better he was going to his death and he has in principle this idea that God is one I was not many that's why they killed him because they considered him an atheist because he wouldn't worship the many gods of the state he believed on principle that the good man cannot be harmed by evil and those who unjustly condemned him and killed him he were harming not him with themselves why is it on jobs if everything's good there is a lack of justice in the stolen world I've never denied that but he rose above it because he saw the light the light of God he knew that virtue is all that matters His goodness his clinging to the good is not tarnished in any way by the fact that he was unjustly tried and killed by the people of Athens it would in no way tarnished by that and that's why his story resonates with me as a Christian it's very similar no III more into a psychic evidence and I don't really care about the difference between good and evil I really don't I think that only anywhere close that I believe it in not just a deity which is already a huge claim and as we know huge claims require extraordinary evidence but your particular daily which is distinct from the day leah's or the other major religions when I talk about the god of Judaism the God of Islam of the god of Christianity to me they're one in the same and the distinct missions that are made our full distinction so Muhammad didn't get talking to you about angel Gabriel not according to Christian enough how to push any nose because that book was written 604 for the Quran this ring yeah but I'm not a Bible along Christian I'm not Protestant I'm a Catholic I have the living voice of the church i have an infallible Pope today Pope Francis who is teaching me today what the Church teaches but it sounds like the the Quran it has 600 years more on the death of Jesus Christ well there's a new realizing that the new updated to point out of Christianity because the truth is eternal and unchanging yes but the determination all it's a determined yeah I would say so that's pretty cool yeah it doesn't 80 your arguments that's good by the way God's truth yeah what I mean they just weren't but how about its freakin what did just words when you said truth is eternal without just words or sure yeah oh it was just words sure okay sure it's right now we're still sitting here on my table and with something that anyways posted wards they'll button go ahead that eternal truth that you believe in that's got of course Simon please no that's really not you just told me that you do believe it you believe in the other is something is true then it's true yes that'd be ternary independent of space and time well I mean it's a weird because if I asked what's the current prime minister of australia i'll send off in terms in kenya's time if you have to be the same questions if I Minnesota Australia it'll be a different answer yeah but I view as one great big piece and if you look at life like a film strip so the truth of that frame is still there even our ten frames over you know from God's point of view he's outside of time so he sees everything at once and he sees all this session of popes all this expression of prime minister's office especially with a deaths of innocent people innocent people yeah is that this another thing too there is innocence but there's also lack of innocence sure I mean that's that's true right yet i would say i'm generally innocent a murderous niacin right but there's a mixture and everybody but so there is innocence in the murderer by the way wishy washy so if someone dies in cystic fibrosis at the age of 20 right then that's okay with you I accept reality do you know how somebody gets to cigarettes or any genetic condition is simply due to genetic recombination of the two gametes the egg and sperm that happen when they collide there's no original sin and I baby don't give me that this is the most self evident doctrine in all of christianity original sin how do you explain the evils of the world come on you have to admit it's not perfect here and it seems pretty messed up with the disease and young people dying right one of the gods just fix it he not good and he doesn't and because we have this principle that he's all good anything and capable of evil we conclude that there must be a good reason why he doesn't and that there's something even better what about like Leviticus where it says if a man lives another man should be stoned you do that no you're contradicting the Word of God no I'm not the Bible on Christian I love living many times ago tell you believing that everything that God does what do you mean don't believe in everything that God does across do you believe that say everything the word exists because of God God is not the source of anything evil God is the source of everything that's ago so gorgeous myself and everything good he's the source of everything that is but I like keep telling you evil is not hmm so God is a source that's gonna def inition of evil i'm sure people would see it more like this you know yeah and that evil is a thing it's a substance that they're like Gnosticism Gnosticism teaches that they're good and there's evil whereas Christianity teaches that there's good and then there's the deprivation on the lack of good so you believe in the old testament of course so is everything needs in the Old Testament correct there is no error and there is no contradiction in the Old Testament God is the primary author of the Old Testament right and it is a new testament that too so what I asked you before you lie to me someone else before but every way yeah in Leviticus right there's nuance that you don't appreciate which I haven't explained yet you watch a giant give a about but it's doing the videos when it says if a man lots of other men should be stoned yeah before you said no I don't believe in never knew i'd like to say but now you say it has an error so is it morally acceptable to Stonegate it let me not and let me explain why I bet it'd be good it is good good so Jesus was talking to the Jews of the day and he gave a sermon on the mount and he said you have heard it said in the old law x but I tell you why you have heard this but I tell you that so there's an augmentation and a progression of the teaching right replacement no there's no replacement he said I didn't come to replace well I came to perfect a lot but a Jew asked him a faithful Jew asked him why did Moses allow divorce because Jesus was preaching against divorce and Jesus says Moses made a confession because you're stiff-necked people because you're stubborn difficult people and he made a confession to you so the truth contained in the Bible addresses apparent contradictions in doctrinal teachings for example in the Old Testament with Moses allowing divorce so it's a lot more subtle than just saying hey Leviticus says stolen the gay people so you should do that no Jesus would say look you're missing the whole point did he say that them did he condemn that passage he did have a situation where there was a woman caught in adultery and the law says to stone her and he said the first one without sin common throw the first stone that's all he said so he was confronted with the letter of the law firm from the Old Testament and what was his reaction he didn't participate in that letter of the law he didn't he was without sin he could have picked up a stone as donor but he didn't do that he said have any of these men condemned you because they all walked away right and she said no and he says neither do i condemn you now go and sin no more and it's all recorded in the bottle and when you come as an outsider and you say well this weird things in the Bible you must believe it and you're inconsistent if you don't believe it you're not looking at the big picture you're not looking at the whole Bible you're not looking at the words of Jesus Christ and you're not looking at who he is from a Christian perspective so let's say that I had sex with a man he chases came down and said I don't condemn you but go and sin no more don't tell me what to do due to be yeah I'm a thief by Nature if he comes and tells me David I don't condemn you but don't steal anymore I won't say well who are you I mean I have these impulses and I respond to them because that's natural I can say yes to be in folder I can say no to the impulse just like when i see the hot secretary at work i can say look I'm married should i do this or not lots of justification possible right it's like hey I was drunk and she was wearing this and whatever the music of it was natural is what we're made for biology Darwin it's the wrong choice sorry don't say yes to those impulses so he would tell me to start a life with men yeah I'm telling you that right now stop having sex with men if you're having sex with men not a problem that biology says I won't have sex with my own sexy but my biology says I want to sex with the secretary but I'm married to my wife did love to one day yes and you could yeah you could if you wanted to the wrong thing to do but these people watch too you don't want it their features they desire to write the other people that they want have sex with and your holy book said that is ace what they don't believe the holy book and they're free to do what they want in your heart what do you value more god's way or your way it's God's where you and what's the easier choice to do your welder do God's well what do you think which one's easier yo will absolutely yeah right yeah but but can I get a good Catholic yay yeah yeah but are they going to finding out what the book says if they don't have a choice then there's no sin in that state of being a homosexual now acting on it is a different question and I don't know how many times we need to repeat that yeah but I can't go to that you think someone acting on their homosexual impulses is bad saying because I don't know do you think it's the best thing of course what is freedom is it license to do what you want where your impulses your animal instincts spirit and desire what is the highest freedom for you being able to punch you in the face right now maybe that's pretty frayed expat right but why why do you are well because is my religion is all about freedom right it's like because God is freedom you know God is truth god is love that is Joseph go to do because all the perfections go tues vegemite guarded 7 he's also a little bit you know all of these perfections or perfections which it is better to have it to not have it's better I think he will admit that is better to have freedom mentor not a freaking it's better to be just it's better to be good it's better to be beautiful it's better to be holy so he is he is almost perfection but he's not a circle even though the circle was perfect it's not better to be a circle and not to be a circle now can we exhaustively say what God is not we can't because he's a mystery is beyond understanding you will never be fully comprehended by near creatures but we can talk about God we can talk about God with poetic way from talk about God through analogy we can talk about what God isn't it sort of sculpt out what he is by saying what do you think you can talk about and while you're 18 ships ya know but my point is that you can encounter God and you can believe in God without exhaustively knowing everything about God we can know a lot about God mmm I can tell you a lot of stuff about the grains of sand on earth I just can't tell you everything about them I can't tell you the rotational orientation of each and every one of them they live right but we still can encounter the beach we can go to beach we can stick our hands in the sand and will feel the heat and it's the same thing with God we can encounter him and we can know that he is the best show I think people who think they have been in contact with Christ as it's diluted questionably guys you didn't believe that what would that mean not just like mistaken but actually diluted yeah I think that if I'm wrong about Christianity I am deluded I don't think that I can somehow be wrong about Christianity and not be diluted if I'm wrong I'm dilute if you're wrong you're deluded there's no difference now we can't both be right we could both be wrong we could both you're wrong atheism could be wrong Christianity could be wrong and Judaism could be correct I don't think it's a matter of like picking aside well there is a truth you've admitted that there's an eternal truth I have not ended it the sunchokes yeah you have you said two plus two is four eternally you said that we have it on tape yet that that is right yeah right but you're going to twist that too malcolm-a you think that now aren't twisting it what he said and eternal truth there are many internal should its then yeah just take all those truths and just put them in one nice big pile pile them up you can't do it practically it's too hard right just like the grains of sand but in principle you can say yeah truth here non truth there right oh here's my truth right that eternal unchanging and that is God Almighty that's the god of worship and not wittingly it's the God that you worship to why do you think I believe in God Oh because you believe in truth and God is truth that is the most thing I've ever heard come out of someone's mouth I'm not saying that you know you believe in God I'm saying that you do acknowledge eternal unchanging truth therefore if you see the value in that you're seeing the value in my god whether you know it or not I haven't seen evidence for any goats yet but you see the two posters for so 2 plus 3 before that's what voters but that's a proof of God how that piece is what's the proof of God if it is an eternal unchanging truth that's what God is but why you believe in Gooden two equals four the minus that also required to go into existing and why specifically your God there's only one God according to according to logic and reason because God is perfection and if there are two gods either they both have the same set of perfections which includes simplicity and image reality in which case they're one because they have nothing to distinguish them or there's something to distinguish them and in that case if there's something to distinguish them then one of them is lacking something that the other has that he doesn't have and if he's lacking something he's not good because God doesn't like any perfection of his two daughters medical if you want to make a case for two gods then you're making a case for to false gods if they differ if you're saying that they don't differ then you may be making the case for the one true God or you may be making the case for one false god because it all depends on what you're attributing to God are you attributing evil to God then it's not God the God that you are angry with that doesn't exist in your mind I agree doesn't exist he doesn't access to God that you don't like doesn't exist because he's not perfect he consciously gives people cancer according to you right no he's not the source of an evil he gave us free will it cancels unable what's good cancer is a parasite on the good it's falling away from reality it's falling away from being well then how good is cancer everything is good to the extent that it is I don't know making process that is a nice gift for using cutting things yeah so the 19th ontological be good and the cancer is ontologically good the of the extent that it is the function of a knife typically is to cut things right which is a form of a functional cancer to kill people well it has no conscious function just something that doesn't it's a very delicate and dangerous thing talking about good and evil and talking about the objective goodness of everything that is but if you know what God is and you know that he's perfectly you know that he's not capable you know but you said he can't comprehend god dad you know he's because I told you also we can apprehend god I can't chart out every cubic centimeter of the ocean but I can go to the ocean I can dive into the ocean I can feel the ocean I can touch the ocean I can be immersed in the ocean right so I don't need to have every scientific fact at my fingertips about every cubic centimeter of the ocean to encounter the ocean same thing with God I can know that God is perfect i can know that God is one I can know that God is simple i can know that God is not the source of any evil I can know that without fully comprehensively comprehending it so if you know who God is if you know what God is then everything will flow from that and all the sexual morality that confuses the atheist and the non-believer on a sexual the truly faithful Christian homosexual is tormented by his desires but he he's willing to fight but why is it a bad thing to have sex with someone from us because our human nature wasn't designed for that our human nature was designed don't you die help isn't it they shouldn't be who they are you are free to do what you want you can indulge in every impulse and every instinct and every lower base outside that you have you can you're free to do so i invite you to think about it and respond to your delicate conscience and to do the right thing and if you do fall into error it's not a big deal just repent and try not to do it again that's all and this applies to all sin it's not a big deal just try to learn from your mistakes don't do it again repent go to confession with your Catholic if you're not Catholic do whatever you do in your religion so what would you say to anyone that's listening if you wanted to sort of give them a picture of where you're coming from because everyone has their own kind of pot what I would say to any atheist out there listening is who are currently too scared to come out as atheist because their parents are very religious and your sched cooperative afraid of what your parents will do go online go find some support group to go meet like-minded atheist friends right because you're not wrong and thinking that there is no good because the other evidence isn't good enough and you're right so good on you for being a native being an atheist isn't hard because we don't have to claim anything or we're just saying look we don't believe there are any gods because if all the God claims are not sufficient enough at all the evidence you have we don't call evidence because it's not scientific evidence and scientific evidence means that you can look at it again and again repeat experiments on it if it has different people repeat the same experiments and you'll get the same results over and over right scientifically tested them so it's very easy to be an atheist and when religious people come and talk to you they won't understand they will think that these value you believe in God which is that I'm not going to say insulting because they're just wrong but just know that you're coming from the right place when you're rejecting these claims you probably have serious friends right now here you know we're being limited by their religion for example maybe they won't have sex before marriage but they're told not to so they're really frustrated and they feel angry maybe that makes them money at marriage super quickly so they rush relationships and they feel perhaps is about to say enough breaking up that happens a lot AAFES typically tend to be more accepting of homosexuals as you've seen this interview here you can do what you want really as long as you are a good person to people's well-being which is what I think Jim and kind should strive to do I don't think we should spend any time pleasing God at all even if god were real we shouldn't worry about him he's already got he doesn't need any more lot of our attention you should be helping out your fellow human being instead even if there was a god yeah you know a lot of you think it'd be really rockin questions my piano girl oh you got billionaire all you gotta do it billionaire all you gotta do it

transcript2
These ReWatch transcripts are also generated automatically and are therefore sometimes improperly unformatted and replete with errors.