Catholic vs. Jew - 2017-02-04 - Natalie

Author Recorded Saturday February 4th, 2017

There are 5 episodes in the Versus:Jew series.

Recorded January 11th, 2018

Catholic vs. Jew - 2018-01-11 - Jana

Recorded February 4th, 2017

Catholic vs. Jew - 2017-02-04 - Natalie

Natalie and I know each other. She welcomed me into her home for this friendly chat. I was just coming down with a cold, and so my voice is a little off.

Catholic vs. Jew - 2017-02-04 - Natalie

Author Recorded November 6th, 2016



These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
hi this is Natalie and you're listening to Catholic vs. jus I'm just going to ask you to tell the audience a little bit about yourself who you are what you believe and why you believe it okay um I was born and raised Jewish I went to Jewish school since the age of five since kindergarten so I learned three languages english hebrew and french my family was more secular certainly my father was my mother and my brother were more into the religion and into going to synagogue and and my brother has often toyed with the idea of becoming a rabbi as for myself I was always interested in religion and different religions and I was also very worldly so I was interested more in other religions not just Judaism and also I studied history so of course i always like to know the context of religion and how it came about and what was before and during and after so what branch or what form of Judaism was most present in your childhood we were conservative I belong to a conservative synagogue the women in the men sat separately we went mostly for high holidays I'm Ashkenazi Jewish so it was I don't know if it is still but at the time it was mostly in ashkenazi jewish synagogue did you ever pray of your own free will like when he went to bed at night would you say a little prayer to God did you ever did you have a connection to God at all no I didn't really think about God when I went went to bed I thought more about the universe and I thought more about chaos and what the world looked like before you know it was created or what the solar system looked like or our galaxy or other galaxies I would also do this weird exercise where I imagine my parents weren't my parents and I do this like dissociation detachment I would close my eyes and look at patterns that form in the darkness in my eyes so I wasn't really thinking about God I mean I wasn't really thinking about him since your childhood like during adolescence in your life have there been times where uncharacteristically maybe you reached out to go out of desperation no but there was this one time where my long-term boyfriend and I broke up and it was a bad breakup and I was really depressed for about a month but the first week it was like really acute and nothing could call my anxiety and my depression at that point and then it was weird but just one day I said to myself okay well you don't have this you don't have that you don't have him anymore okay so what do you have what's always there what's always good to be there and then I realized it's God who's always there and religion is always there and that I could rely on that and I could fall back on that and that's when I realized that this is probably why a lot of people become religious later in life they have traumatic experiences and they figure it out so that was the only time where I contemplated it it was just more of a realization like oh god is always there God is there if if I'm feeling this way I can do something for God and it'll make me feel better so that was the only real time the thing is I could be more religious and I could be more I mean observant but the reason I'm not is that because God is both good and bad everything seems to be based on fear of God not just love of God but fear of God and I don't want to do something for God because I fear him I want to do something because i purely love him I don't want to think of him and be good to him and pray to Him in this net for selfish reasons which are caused by fear Judaism teaches that God has a good side and a bad side are you sure about that not a hundred percent sure but I know in the Bible he just does things that are both good and bad okay it's not really written probably but it just never says God is bad but I could tell you without any doubt whatsoever that God is not capable of any evil ever so I think if you talk to a Muslim a Jew or Christian if they practice their faith they will all agree that God is all capable of error and he's not capable of evil he's not capable of sin he's not capable even anger or jealousy these are condescension Xin the Bible it's hard to put into words what God is so we use human language so I think it might change your relationship with God to investigate that side of god if god is all good and all loving and incapable of evil and how to explain certain writings in the bible and how do you explain evil in the world what do you think about the idea that God allows evil to happen because he can bring good out of it that's how powerful he is how does that idea strike you is that a good solution to the problems okay yeah that makes sense I guess it's similar to a trauma where a trauma being a negative experience but there's good that comes out of it because if you grow from it which a lot of people do then it's a good thing so then it you can like turn the negative into a positive you sent me a link to a video with the rabbi can you tell me a little bit about how that impacted you that story of the sister experience he was a very wild guy we went to a party one night and some friends passed around a bar or something and he started not feeling well after and him and I think it was his current girlfriend at the time decided to leave and they took a cab and in the cab he collapsed unconscious and during that episode he experienced death and he was first looking at himself from like a ceiling like he felt he was floating and he was about ceiling height and he saw him lying on his female friends legs in the back of the cab and and after that he rose higher kept rising and then he saw like the taxi driving through Manhattan and then he would rise even more and he saw like all of Manhattan and then he rose even higher where he could see the whole world like he was orbiting in space or something and then once that happened he felt something pull him down just pulled him and then he was in this place where it was pitch black and he was there for a very very long time and the whole time he was praying to God to get out of it and he he said the first thing he did when he died when he realized he was dying and he had this out-of-body experience he immediately said a prayer Jewish prayer culture morale it's a form of chuva it means forgive me and I will become religious I will pray to you I will do good deeds I will that's what chuva is it's kind of like a return you notice I got born again it's and this was very much like a rebirth so he was in this purgatory for 2 billion years as he describes it was dark he was in pain there were blades finally he sees a little speck of light and he knew like okay there's an opening you know there's an out so he was just praying and and praying and and and then eventually it was all light it was all white and then there appeared all these like angels before him and millions of them as some I guess were demons because every time he's explained every time you sin you create a demon and the angels they said let's look at your good deals let's look at your bad deeds and let's see like with the result is and then they realized they said you cut the cord which is the 613 meets wat you cut that cord and you have like one strand maybe and he he realized oh my god I I really didn't do anything good I hora didn't do enough good to you know overshadow the bad and basically they said the only good deeds you did well one was circumcision but that was more your father's deed and the second was you had a Bar Mitzvah because your grandfather made you have it after this lake led the judgment final judgment process first he had two options he was like you could die or you could go back to the real world and then you have two conditions one is being a Jew when one is spreading the word and telling everyone what you experienced so he of course he chose he said I want to go back and then the next thing he I was back in his body in a hospital bed so that was his out-of-body experience when I listened to the rabbi talk about his near-death experience it kind of reminded me of when I broke my wrist when I was biking and it's the first time I've broken a bone and it's the first time that I had to go under general anesthesia for surgery and I was very scared I didn't know what's gonna happen I was an atheist I had nothing on the other side it's just the end if I die and when I woke up I was a changed man it was a kind of death for me and I did experience something on the other side I did I just had no memory of it I have zero memory of anything but everything changed from that point forward I started becoming interested in religion I had always been interested in philosophy that's what led me to religion but my interest increased and there was a sort of peace and a joy that came when I came out of the general anesthesia and looking back I always make a connection between that sort of quasi death that I underwent and my conversion who knows what deal I made with God you know cuz he could list sins a mile long for me and say this is your last chance so probably I'm not doing enough that's the feeling I get back to life as usual my will be done what do I want what's in it for me that's the status quo I'm a convert to Christianity and I still feel that I just have this layer of religion over top saying no David no not your will God's will I think that's how these things happen like I said before it's always a trauma right and it's really hard to change and this rabbi innova his first hour is more fixed on explaining what happened to him his second hour is partially explaining how hard it was for him to make these changes like he started incorporating things and he started making changes but he was still doing certain things in his old way and you know it's like me okay every time I get really sick okay I'm going to take care of myself I'm going to eat properly after I'm going to exercise I'm going to stop eating this and that and then it becomes I want to look good for me and and you learn to love yourself but now it's about God loving me and it's about me loving God and me not just doing this for myself or to please my doctor this is for God because if I don't take care of myself I'm shortening my life span and I don't have time to do all these good deeds if I'm not well and i'm going to die sooner than i should which also is related to the free will because the dilemma and the Jewish religion is that there is free will but God knows what you're going to do in the end God knows the path god has chosen a path for you but you can change it if you're on the wrong path sort of thing if you're on the bad path you can change it so I feel a bit like oh if I've come to that fork and it's now time to go to the gym and to eat properly into this and that because God it's it's for God because I wasn't able to do it for myself I wasn't able to do it for someone else but maybe I can do it for God people tend to overvalue themselves and undervalue themselves in all the wrong ways absolutely so what Jesus Christ brings or what God brings is this idea that you are his creature you're nothing because compared to God nothing is anything so you are nothing so you can't undervalue yourself you're nothing you're worthless even if you do everything perfectly to please him you're nothing but a worthless slave on the other hand you're a creature about your child of God God loves you God created you God is watching you as I was converting to God the Father from atheism one of the most powerful and moving things I read was a book called the vision of God and I thought this is interesting I'm going to learn about what it's like to have a vision of God turns out the book is not about me having a vision of God it's about God's vision of me God is watching me that gave me chills as an atheist that put my hair on end even as an atheist that was so powerful think that you even though you may not worship God in a traditional sense i think you know yeah i have a spiritual side and he also talks out of something about doing the blessings on the friday night with the candles it's supposed to bring you closer to God and most people of course don't feel the closest to God they don't feel anything like they don't feel a change and they're looking for this change to happen he tells a funny story about a woman who came over after he became religious and married and and and he said we're gonna light would you like to light the candles and she was like no no no no no and finally she agreed and then she looked up at the ceiling after slipping cabals so he looked up at the ceiling too because he was like what's she looking at and then she and then finally she said he asked her what are you why are you looking at the ceiling she's like I'm waiting for something to happen you said I'd be feel closer to God after but that things happening so I think in some way I felt closer to God like I explained this to a friend of mine who is an atheist and he asked me he do believe in God and I said yeah yeah I do he goes why and I go I lost a lot of relatives in a very short amount of time I lost my mother my father my grandfather his brother my grandmother and my uncle within the span of seven years so I felt some kind of protection weird protection after like they were watching me and if they're watching me then God's watching me and that's why I believe in God and he was like whoa I've never heard something so deep like if I that happen to me i think i would also believe in God sort of thing but it hasn't happened to him so that's why you know that's why you need an in a trauma that will change you and whether it's change converting from one religion to another whether it's just becoming more religious what your whatever your religion is or you could be in two different religions you know I think it takes a when things are going well why would you want to change when things are going badly of course you want to change so I think it's connected to that I had another friend who was an atheist late friend god bless his soul and one day after we had gone for coffee with another friend him and for his friend were were just going on and seriously bashing God like I hate God and God is this and God is that and I looked at him and I said well you say you're an atheist because yeah I go how could you hate God if you don't believe in him doesn't make any sense if you were to become religious as opposed to being just spiritual are you leaning towards Judaism or not at all would you be just as comfortable as a hare Krishna or as a Catholic or I pretty much would stay what I am but I like taking the good out of every religion and I like anything that's in common with all religions it's good so I mean I have my own Christian tendencies as I would call it and this took a while for me to think like this but very recently I realized that I had matured and grown emotionally finally able to love myself and I reached a level where i could really forgive my enemies and wish them well so long as they stay away from me the sort of thing and then I said I think that's a Christian concept but I was like hey I've Christian tendencies that's pretty cool that's ok so i love that i can love my enemy I love that feels good it feels good now i want it to talk a little bit about heroes of the faith in the catholic church we have saints and our calendar celebrates them year round the Jews have holy men they have these rabbis that are so famous a rabbi to me is someone who not only is the holy man it's more it comes from rough it's more of an educator a teacher a do-gooder but with it influence on others it's a teacher it's a yes haha smart man and then and Rob is like a smart man and a holy man whereas a holy man sure it's a rabbi but I really see it more as the prophets I know I look up to Abraham I know I look up to Moses I know that I look up to certain ones for different things do you remember sitting and being taught with the children's version of the Torah and there's a simplified story about Moses or something like that was that part of your experience of school I don't think it was so simplified as much as you think we learned it in the original language well in old Hebrew oh and the class was in Hebrew it wasn't hebrew english it was old Hebrew Hebrew so we learn everything yeah we learn lie in my line we learned the laws we learned that this and that but we didn't learn the context there was nothing to apply it to and I'm only finding out the context slowly and especially now so usually in the second half of the interview I asked my guests to sort of direct questions I mean anything you want to know about what I believe why i believe it is there anything you would want to know about my faith I don't know much about Christianity or Catholicism but I think Christianity came first and Catholicism keep later no no Christianity is Catholicism there is no difference you could find the same thing in Judaism you could find one sect of Judaism where they'd say it's just Judaism and those people over there that are claiming to be Reform Judaism or whatever they've just deviated from Judaism they've given it a fancy name that's all you know and they love their brother that's fallen onto this wayward path they loved the brother and they would love their brother to come back to the fullness of Judaism so that's what Catholicism is it's the fullness of Christianity and those who are born into a Protestant form of Christianity we still consider them Christian they still have baptism they still have Jesus Christ but they're missing all kinds of things when it comes to faith and morals and if you look at the history of the Catholic Church all the way back to Jesus Christ you'll see that it is not changing if it is changing in terms of its dogmatic teachings then it's a false religion period that's why when I convert it to God and I decided to be Christian I became Catholic not Southern Baptist you know I just figured that because Christianity first spread to Greece and it was established there and then then with the Pope in Italy I thought that's when the schism occurred and the Greek side became Orthodox and the Italian side became Catholic the the Orthodox would not agree that they became or Thugs they claim that the church is the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church has deviated from orthodoxy that's their point of view and I admire them for that point of view I think they're wrong obviously if I agreed with them I would be Orthodox but i think that the true religion is catholicism this is the divisive power of God God is truth and the truth divides and every deviation from truth and there's so many that are possible all of them are missing something they all contain truth or they wouldn't exist right there's truth in everything try to come up with a sentence now that is pure lie with no truth in it you can't because you're going to reference reality otherwise it's just mumbo jumbo so the Orthodox Catholic split both sides claimed no we go back to Jesus Christ we are apostolic we are the true religion and the other diverged and that is the hallmark of any self-consistent coherent worldview I think you have to believe that you're right you can't say my religion is compromised my religions based on half-truths and lies you can't be satisfied with that you have to believe that you found the truth so when you talked earlier about well you know I can take bits and pieces from different truths and different religions so can i but it's only because I believe that all of those truths are Catholic truth all truth belongs to us Christians that's what I believe and I think that any self-respecting person whatever the world view is even if they're an atheist I think that they have to say all truth is atheist truth because science has the answer for everything don't you agree I I guess so I try to be more objective about religion and about personal preferences and things like that your preference for chocolate ice cream doesn't contradict my preference for vanilla ice cream but when I say geez Christ is God Almighty that's a position that can't be reconciled with the Jewish position who is Jesus Christ that is the question it's not do you like chocolate or vanilla ice cream it's who is Jesus Christ is he a lunatic a liar or Lord and that is a question that you can't shrug off and you can't pretend like it doesn't affect everything else in your world view you know because everyone has an answer to that question whether it's implicit explicit whatever you're doing built into that there is an answer to the question who is Jesus Christ but I just have a problem with absolutism and I think maybe the only thing that I would accept as being absolute is God not Jesus and D but you've just absolutely categorically said that Jesus is not God you've just said that you can't avoid it yeah yes I said no you can't you can't have it both ways you are absolute estuvo Jesus he's not God he's not for you right it's not like I'm more absolutist than you you just don't recognize that you are being absolutist about Jesus he's not God for you he's not and I'm comfortable with I don't think that your rigid or that you're pushing your ideas on my throat I think it's just a position he's not God well here's the thing there's hypocrisy in it because people say God is in you so God is in you God was in Jesus too so as jesus god that's worse than lying that's called equivocation that's where you say I guarantee I'll give you that thousand dollars i owe you by the time the Sun rises and then you come knock on my door and say look the Sun has already risen now so no it hasn't The Sun has it the earth Rohit oh we that's called equivocation the Sun does not actually rise the earth is spinning right so you can twist words all you want but the bottom line is is Jesus God in a way that you are not God in a way that your cat is not God because God is in your cat yeah that's definitely my cat's eye I see that garden yet Jesus are not to not go in bernal no they're not I think Jesus was probably a great guy who did some great things I can't even accept that he didn't exist actually I can't accept that as much as I can accept that he's god I can't I does it really say that he's God he says he's son of god I guess which is where does it say this it's in the Bible somewhere the reason i ask you that facetious question is because i'm not a Bible alone Christian if you talk to a Protestant everything that they talk about will be referenced to the Bible everything whereas i don't need the Bible as a Catholic I don't need to reference the Bible I have a church that dusty old book I believe in it and I believe that it is written by God God is a primary author of Scripture and that there is no error there is no contradiction in the Bible so I do Revere the Bible but I can leave it aside when it comes time to talk about my faith I don't need to lean on it I do lean on it because it's so full of wisdom and it is the word of god it's perfect but when you rely exclusively on it and you reject the church that gave you that Bible that's absurd that's a contradiction so when you said it doesn't say is God it says he's the son of God you were referring to that dusty old book and I can dispense with that because I have the church a living church and we have the Pope Pope Francis that Pope was ordained into the priesthood by the laying on of hands and those hands were laid on in a success of chain all the way back to Jesus Christ laying his hands on Peter so there's an unbroken chain and I'm part of that chain because I'm not ordained but I am confirmed by the laying on of hands I'm a bishop so it's a connection all the way back to Jesus Christ now speaking of Pope Francis how do you see Pope Francis I like him I mean it's really it's interesting because I actually really liked Pope John Paul but but my grandparents are all from Poland oh ok so there was an association with that he grew up during the war he saw what happened and he was very good to the Jews I think it was very good a lot of more liberal Catholics didn't like him but he was very he was really did a lot to reconcile with the Jews and so I liked him for that and he really did physically resemble my grandmother haha that was the big joke in the family that my grandmother looked like the Pope and the Queen Mother so I had a soft spot for Pope John Paul for those reasons obviously I was not as keen on him for other reasons you know like birth control homosexuality abortion that kind of thing but I understood where he was coming from then he died and we had Ratzinger Benedict the 16th right oh sorry I calm Ratzinger most people do he didn't warm up David quite so much well he's German so I guess just the way he looked and I was just like this is weird a poll succeeded by a German and his name is Ratzinger which sounds harsh and I think he was even more hardline than Pope John Paul the second he was always criticized for being too liberal and to progressive when he was younger by the time he became Pope I think he was pretty conservative yet he wasn't really well-liked like he didn't seem to have a personality or and then this guy the Pope now he's quite a character from what I've seen stirring up a lot of opinion good and bad good and bad because he is trying to acknowledge certain things about Catholicism the first thing I think he did was about the sexual abuse that went on within the Catholic Church and he really wanted to deal with that yeah no one did more by the way no one did more for that than Pope Benedict the 16th or Ratzinger no one did more and then he started to kind of warm up to homosexuals and then i'm not sure what Elsa he's good with the Jews too i'm not sure what he said really about birth control or abortion obviously there's also now with Islam and radical Islam and terrorism and all that stuff that's more of a new thing I think for this Pope then for the other popes I mean he doesn't accept terrorism but he'll you will not condemn the religion which is good yeah when you look at Islam what do you see can you see the good and the bad I have issues with Islam what is it about it that rubs you the wrong way if I look at Jesus Jesus was a peaceful guy and then you have Muhammad who was peaceful and then all of a sudden he became violent and I didn't even know that Medina was full of Jews and that he waged war on them and slaughtered a lot of them then he took a Jewish bride and he went from being married to this older woman who is 20 years older than him I don't think they had kids and then she died and then he flipped out it was almost like he flipped out and then he went to Medina and then launched his war on on the Jews and because there was some business deal gone bad they said they would do something they didn't do it and then he attacked and with his army and and and then he married a nine-year-old girl and I don't know maybe he married her and he waited until she was of a certain age to father children or to have sex with her but it was just it was just like whoa hey you know yeah and I'm trying to find someone in the Bible who was similar and the only person I can think of would be king david well there's a story of lot Sodom and Gomorrah sure well he was taken out of Sodom and Gomorrah he was rescued because he was worthy he was righteous and he went into the mountains and his daughters tricked him into having sex with them to propagate the bloodline and there is the story also of Noah with his son walking in and taking advantage of his own father's nakedness do you know with that no I don't know about these two things okay so a little homework assignment for you can look these stories up and I'm not going to interpret them because I don't know what the church says about them specifically but there certainly is no shortage of people going astray doing the wrong thing the golden calf the worshipping of the golden calf that Aaron made from the people when Moses was up the mountain you must remember that for sure you know that's about as big a transgression as you can have in a story about worshiping God you know so there's no shortage of people doing the wrong thing the question is when are we miss judging and rash judging and judging too harshly things we just don't understand because of the it's a different time it's a different age it's hard to believe but it might be the case that if you were actually there with them at that time you wouldn't have thought twice about that behavior or this behavior which now shocks us you know I mean we're quick to judge and we're quick to judge Muhammad I think in the same way we don't know really happened we don't know the context we don't know the culture we don't know the pressures we don't know how the story was propagated and what's true and what's not so I think I like to give Mohammed the benefit of the doubt i think he was wrong i think that it's a false religion but i don't judge him because i don't know him i don't know if it was just a power grab or if he was a sincere man who had a conversion and was just following God's orders according to his interpretation now that's the problem always right is what is the proper interpretation and a classic story that comes to mind to me when I want to defend Muhammad is Isaac Abraham has to sacrifice Isaac and he say what kind of God would do that well I believe that God tested Abraham faith and that Abraham passed the test and that Isaac was not killed and it all's well that ends well yeah but it's easy to look at that story and say God's a monster it's easy to look at that story and say Abraham is a monster and it's easy to look at the story and to say Isaac's are fool because he was participating willingly he was a willing victim in that so there are two ways to look at that story you can look at it as a hellish nightmare and only a fool would believe these crazy stories about this crazy god these crazy religious people or he can look at it the way that the Jews Muslims and Christians look at it which is that it's a beautiful story of faith and that God is all good and that Abraham trusted God and his trust was credited to Abraham as righteousness that's how we see it although in the end no one got hurt except for a lamb there's a difference in second of all Muhammad if he's a prophet to be a prophet to my image of a prophet is not someone like Muhammad that's not my image of profit I know David was a warrior and then he also was a lover and he had the husband of this woman killed so he could have her that's pretty bad too you know but you know the difference is he's not the only prophet in in the Old Testament where as Muhammad is like the only prophet in Islam and that's not what they claim actually no they claim that they have all the profits from Adam all the way through a Moses and all the way up to Jesus including Jesus and Muhammad is the last prophet so they appropriate all of that which i think is to their credit because there's a lot of beauty and goodness in Judaism and Christianity that I think they need frankly yeah but at the same time then they look down on Jews and Christians so and and every religion seems to have this really it's not just Islam triumphalism yeah well I guess that's what it's called yeah so with Islam actually i was told that muhammad is the first profit for the same reason you think he's a last prophet for the Muslims he's the first profit yeah first in priority first and righteousness first of all in his first in example last in chronology that's probably what the taxi driver meant so i have you ever heard of bhai of course bhai came about I guess it was I don't know 19th century in Persia and later these people were persecuted and had to leave Iran like when it became erat and when the Shah was overthrown and maybe even before they were persecuted especially after the Revolution I mean they really all left and they're a lot of Congress to bhai as far as I can see I know there's a baha'i center here on Pine Avenue my mother when she was terminally ill with breast cancer was very very spiritual person herself and I think she really wanted to know more about what happens when when you die and I don't think she was satisfied with the Jewish answer so she started to make friends and get involved in other churches and denominations to find out what their answer how they view an end of life and afterlife in a resurrection and anything to do with that and so she became quite involved with the Baha'i at one point she was really like the Baha'i because I got the Baha'i from what I've seen they're very into love it's very positive they're very into love and God everything's about love and God love and god there's no Jesus in there no other person in there they're very into love and God and and and and writing these very poetic verses and the way it's written I mean it's very like lift your spirit roof yeah something like that so this is what she was looking more for but she never converted to bhai and she had a Jewish funeral in Jewish burial but I know that and I know that it's very flowery I almost want to say flaky but it's like you have a smile on your face the whole time I was no sharp edges anywhere no I knew someone who was by he passed away and used to write poetry okay bahay inspired poetry I think some of it was depressing just because he was a depressive kind of guy but there was a lot of God and love in it yeah so your impression of it is it's gentle yeah it seemed very gentle does that attract you or repulse you um doesn't attract me doesn't repulse me either but I don't find it very realistic I mean I see the Jewish in the Muslim as having a lot of negativity that's for sure what do you mean by negative there's a lot of I mean there's a lot of bad things God does in Judaism there's a lot of bad things people do in Judaism yeah in islam it's Muhammad did a lot of bad things so and it's allegorical to wear as Jesus is allegorical but Jesus like probably didn't even kill a fly hey you know so there are elements of the behind that almost remind me of Christianity the way they talk about God and love and stuff I think there's some kind of a Christian element to it as well the reason I brought it up I don't know anything about it I just have this vague notion that they will just sort of embrace everything is true and a good friend of mine from university is an atheist who studying to be a minister in a church called you you unitarian universalist so they believe just like the muslims and jews that God is not a Trinity there's one person in the Godhead and the Universalist aspect is that everyone goes to heaven and the rabbi that I interviewed on this podcast said that everyone goes to heaven so I lost a lot of respect I was sorry to say for Judaism when I learned that I need hell in order to have real lasting consequences to the decisions that I make otherwise I'll just go into the dark side and up and have it anyway that's the way my mind works so I did lose respect for Judaism I'm sorry to say I'll need to find out if that was this particular rabbis opinion if it that was just his sect or if that's true daisen that is Judaism and you know what that's another thing i wasn't exactly taught about heaven and hell I mean I think I was taught maybe I didn't get it that we had a kind of purgatory purgatory there's no hell it's just purgatory hey just purgatory I think we did learn that and I wasn't paying very much attention when I heard that there's no real hell I just tuned out because then i thought don't you listen to this exactly because there's no hell but it doesn't change me at all no because you are still subject to the god of catholicism and the Catholic hell is real and you can really go there you understand you are still living in God's reality and God's reality is Catholic from my point of view I could be wrong come with your counter arguments if you want but I'm convinced that the universe is a Catholic universe and there is a hell a permanent hella we need to be careful what we do and we could end up in hell I don't wish it on anyone but my Universalist friend my Unitarian Universalist friend he's studying to become a minister and he doesn't even believe in God so it's the kind of religion where I think that it's a sort of non religion and you can believe in God if you want they don't they're not all I theists so someone like you that's spiritual I thought bahay Unitarian Universalist there must be some kind of religion sort of non-religion where you could practice your spirituality without having to set one thing up over against everyone else and say no this is it and you're wrong maybe it's my own religion oh yeah maybe I'm founding a new religion I just don't want any members um no you know i love knowledge so I love learning about religion and maybe one reason to be more religious was to gain more knowledge that way because you're not going to gain it any other way but I don't think that I would turn more Jewish or more whatever just to gain this knowledge i'm reading now i'm asking my friend i'm i'm more observing the observant than being observant myself you know and learning and they say even Judaism i think in the Cibola it says it's like infinite wisdom infinite learning like you're never going to know and that's because the only thing that knows everything is god yeah so to wrap up I always ask my guests to give a little closing thought which really encapsulates your path because your path is unique everyone's path is unique what would you say to anyone that's listening I would just tell them to keep learning keep reading and to be good and to make wise decisions and learning and being good is great and it can help you love be good and learn and by being good and doing good things and thinking it's proven chemically that it's good for you with serotonin um I think this is a probably more the path to God and to love then things that are absolute and you know it says Jews have to do 613 meets foot but i think that non-jews are doing these mitzvah to even though they are not Jews and some non Jews were more Jewish than Jews you can say you know I don't know if there's one real path but I know that the more you learn and the more you do good I just know that feels really good and I'm sure God feels really good too if you like it will do if you think it's you got some questions piano tell all you gotta do is s all you got to do is you

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