Catholic vs. Catholic - 2017-11-20 - Pope Michael

Author Recorded Monday November 20th, 2017

There are 44 episodes in the Versus:Catholic series.

Recorded September 13th, 2017

Catholic vs. Catholic - 2017-09-13 - Thomas

Pope Michael was elected by a small group of people who had come to believe that the Catholic Church has seceded from the Catholic faith with Vatican II, and that there have been no legitimate Novus Ordo Popes since the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958.To be my guest, email me at :

Catholic vs. Catholic - 2017-11-20 - Pope Michael

Author Recorded July 26th, 2017



These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
hi I'm Michael and you're listening to you Catholic versus Catholic how should I address you your holiness would be good okay so your holiness thank you very much for your taking the call this is an amateur podcast I'm a Roman Catholic I'm faithful to the Magisterium that's in the Vatican Pope Francis I don't know you I don't know anything about you and I if I ever do or say anything disrespectful just please stop me and just correct me okay that sounds great okay so if you could just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself who you are what you believe and how you came to believe it okay I was born David Baden in 1959 I was raised a Catholic in 1965 I was a victim of First Communion before first confession that was one of the experiments in the spirit of Vatican 2 one that actually they repealed a few years later and at that time my mother of course became concerned and found that another bunch of parents had already gotten together and we're teaching their children the catechism themselves rather than using the modernist ones that were coming out at the time they were teaching from the old Baltimore Catechism so as educated in the Catholic faith from the traditional Catechism but at the same time this is when the changes were going on they're changing from the Tritton teen Mass through the message on the 23rd and eventually to the Novus Ordo in any case in 1972 my family among others decided that we could no longer stay with the Novus Ordo our with the teachings that came out as a result of vatican ii which do not square with a match staring with the church and that's when we joined the traditionalist movement when the 1970s the positions were not as clear-cut as they are today because there was a lot we had not yet discovered but everybody in the traditions movement was in practice 84 contests in the 70s it was in the early 80s that the physicians were finally made concrete Archbishop Lefebvre position in favor of accepting they claim at the papacy at that time john paul ii as pope but resisting his orders which that position came to find out is inconsistent with catholic teaching the john paul ii was Pope and we should accept the Novus Ordo we should accept everything that he was doing I mean we could object to some of the minor things but still the virtual obedience is there that's why many of us went on and became state of acontece because we could not square the teachings of Paul the sixth and John Paul the second with the teachings of the Catholic faith and that's how we got there but at the same time in the mid-80s I discovered there is a substantial problem with the whole traditionalist movement and that's when I became what is now come to be called the home alone are you familiar with that term well basically it got that name because these Catholics stay home alone and avoid demonstration of the tradition was priests and bishops because we believe that they do not have authority from the church which in fact they themselves with a couple of minor exceptions admit that despite of st. Pius the tenth immensity of say on their website the see MRI with the bishop in rooms he admits it's Bishop Daniel Dolan was quoted in a book that spoke of Satan saying yes we don't have ordinary authority in the church so the traditions have no authority and I went on from there and was confronted by the teaching from but it's called the first Vatican Council I believe is the only Vatican Council that Peter or have perpetual successors in the papacy that's when I began actually I joined a movement than been running for about 15 years already to elect a pope started with the father Saenz areata in Mexico in the early 1970s fact he and two other priests visited personally with Archbishop of Evan the election oh now you're saint of a contest bishops RunAs Doland sanborn etc all descend from Bishop Peter Martin kneeled in took of Vietnam he and his first bishops held several meetings discussing the election of the Pope what torpedoed that is the two American bishops at the time vicious museun vecinos who I knew personally got into some argument with each other what they got an argument over I really don't remember because that's the time I was becoming home alone and they split but that's where ended it took bishops pursuing the election of a pope instead they were just kept consecrating bishops and that's why we have the state of the contest movement in fact the state of a countess movement is not truly United I just found out yesterday bishop Sanborn is planning on consecrating a father Selway as bishop so my first question is what bishops are going to show up at that consecration since the consecration I presume be in the United States I would expect Bishop Patronus Bishop don't love and I've heard a mention of a bishop Neville who lives near bishops and Bohr they all should be together their consecration two of them assisting Bishop Sanborn and third just in attendance to show their unity what I find is they even the sight of a contests argue with each other they have chapels and each other's territories if you will although according to the Catholic Church they have no authority to operate and that's that's how I came to where I'm at pursuing a papal election and we contacted all the state of acontece in the world that we could find we had a list of all of the state of accomplice chapels throughout the world that was compiled in 1989 that's the list we used the contact concerning the papal election very few actually showed up at the election although there's much discussion about the existence of Pope Michael today I'm not quite sure why they're discussing that in fact there are two subsequent elections organized by people who were connected in some respect within blue that led to my own election they were all well aware of it in 1994 the victor von pence who had been in a society st. Pius 10 seminary he was elected Pope in fact a couple of took bishops even participated in that election in 1998 you have a father Earl Lucien over mocker you might have heard of his brother father father Carl pull the mocker who worked on the Angelus press forever in case he had left the novus ordo same time his brother did in about seven 1974-75 he worked beside his st. Pius 1/10 for about three months they left them and then he was an independent priests visiting people all over the country eventually in 1998 he got a small group together who elected him as Pope he's now subsequently died and left no successor victor von pants to the best of my knowledge has virtually resigned last I heard and this was years ago he was a bank guard in northern England that's where he's from and then I've heard of a group that elected a pope and what about 2007-2008 somewhere along in there in South America and there was a line of three claimants in that the third one resigned so that line is also died out how do you approach sort of accumulation and bringing people to the truth how do you approach that basically we're open to bring anyone into the church if you look at the website you see our main thrust is not about proving Glenny the papacy yes we have you know questions and answers and we're working out to better present the case but our main thrust is to educate people how to become Saints get them to pray take a look at st. Vincent prayer who preached during the Western sysm he didn't preach about who was spoken who wasn't he come to town and say you've got to stop standing you've got to convert you got to live the Catholic Way of life and that's our main focus but what do you say about people on the left like the Catholics that are very lackadaisical about morality sexual morality abortion contraception how do you view those people because it's very rampant in my church today see that's one of the problems that came out in the spirit of Vatican 2 people came to be lacks in both faith and morals you can take a look online and see the statistics how many believe in the real presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and Blessed Sacrament well to be Catholic you have to believe that if you don't believe that you're a heretic so that places you outside the church ok the same is true of abortion birth control in the church's teaching is clear on these subjects so if they're going to start rejecting any of the doctrines or morals of the Catholic Church which go back to the time of Christ they are rejecting Catholic Church they are not Catholics what was it about 1958 I'm assuming that that is sort of the date for you like Pius the 12th was a legitimate Pope in your understanding right Angelo Roncalli who became the second John the 23rd in history we believe the second daddy pope john xxiii had committed public notorious heresy prior to his apparent election oh what was that uh he was weak on communism he was weak on religious liberty feel praising other religions as a way to God as Catholics we believe outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation now we don't judge individuals and why they're outside the church but objectively speaking if you ought to get to heaven we believe you have to become a Catholic and live the Catholic Way of life and you need to submit to the Pope right exactly that's part of it yeah that's an unum somtum that's a bit of a problem for the set of a contests well see they wipe it out by saying we have no Pope so we are in a long anti Ragman long history and they've got one book that makes a statement that says that this is theoretically possible I wish they read the rest of the book cause it's actually quite a good book are you talking about Robert Bellarmine no it's not saying Robert Bellarmine because it ain't Robert Bellarmine doesn't talk about long interregnum I think cingrani bellman may have held the position that's not possible for the Pope to become a heretic the dancing Robert bellman and they were monopod Fe she takes every case of alleged papal heresy from the beginning up to his time improves that none of them were actually heretics he goes into the Tories case of malarious etc he goes into every alleged case of papal hair steam disproves them all anyone who mentions the possibility of papal heresy st. will say this is only a theory it has never happened in the history of the church and then we get to the other proposition which is why everyone now focuses on the 1958 date whom ex apostle itis off it's you the Pope all the four states that a heretic cannot become Pope and that's still in force today because the 1917 code of canon law did not consider the question of a heretic trying to gain an office in the church so that code of canon law says are there no provision concerning something in the code of canon law you go back to the old law max apostle also Fitzhugh the case of a pope becoming a heretic there's a question can you judge the Pope can't you there are a lot of questions about this and that's what bowed me in the early 1980s until someone presented to max post also picture I said now we're considering not whether or not a pope became a heretic who can you judge the Pope we're considering out whether someone became Pope in the first place when there is good reason to believe he didn't and that's why everyone's focus now in 1958 because they were discussing the other proposition in the late 1970s and into the 1980s and so that is a pious tenth brings up he can't judge the Pope although Archbishop Lefebvre Mary clothes it's clearing the papacy vacant I mean he called john paul ii an antichrist are you familiar with the history of the Arian heresy and where any of the popes tempted to embrace that heresy no now the Pope's were attempted to embrace that heresy that's Pope Honorius he was weak on punishing the Arian heretics at most it was weakness okay this is the fourth century or fifth century or what somewhere in that area were there a lot of bishops that didn't brace the area in heresy I would say a large number of bishops embrace their in heresy for a time until some view of the bishops came toward said hey wait just a minute arias is wrong once they got in council they realized we've been fooled what's your impression about this sort of role of politics in the church unfortunately politics has had all too much of an influence in the church one should have none we should be seeking only the will of God because if we all would try to conform ourselves completely to God's will then be the end of strife on earth if everybody on earth did that and that's the message needs to get out it's not about me versus this bishop over here or Pope Francis it's about teaching people how to conform themselves to will of God and that's our major thrust here when I speak to the set of the Kansas they give me the distinct impression that I'm way too soft in my ecumenical approach to other religions because I interview not only Catholics that I disagree with but Protestants atheists Muslims Buddhists Jews and so on and so forth and I have to admit that I'm touched by the love of God that I find in some of these people not all obviously but there is a genuine love of God I think in a good Muslim or a good Jew or a good Protestant what is your perspective on humanism and religious liberty and am i too soft in my view of these wayward sheep you might not be too soft in your view they're trying to do good no we still want them to conform to the will of God which it is ultimately their conversion but if I come up to one of these people who I see some good in say you're going straight to hell how much is he gonna listen to me he's not no I'm gonna work from okay you're trying to do what you believe God wants you to do now I do think you're wrong if you would like to discuss that here is where we differ and here's why I believe what I believe and that's what I did when I became convinced first the home alone position I wrote to all of my friends which includes the traditionalist priests now total here's the position I'm taking and here's why I'm taking it and if you find any fault with my reasoning I'd like to hear about no one got back to me and found fault with my reason now the proposition on religious liberty is that not only do we as individuals have a duty to Almighty God the state does as well so the ideal state is a Catholic state where only the Catholic Church is promoted the state can limit you like the building of churches by other religions when the street cannot force someone to convert because the force conversion is no conversion it's worse than worthless because let's say I could force a Muslim to convert isn't it possible that he might work against the church whereas if I left him alone out there he would not be an enemy of the church no but the state as well has a duty to Almighty God what is the traditional interpretation of separation of church and state I've never understood historically what happened in the development of that idea can you explain that to me okay the Catholic position is that ideally the church and state should be united the Catholic Church with the Catholic state that's the ideal situation separation of church and state came about first here in the United States because mainly Protestants that founded it most of them came over here because problems back home specially in England where there was an official Church but wasn't their church and they were persecuted so we have all these different denominations when they come together it's like we can't put any one of them in charge that's when they separated church and state can you talk a little bit about Luther and that so-called Reformation just in overview what's so how do you characterize the man because I see him as an evil man or at least a deluded insane man certainly not a good man in his later life after he left the church what's the truth about Luther from your perspective well I was reading something many years ago this is from a letter of his to someone I forget who he's talking about all this work he has to you know he's doing a commentary on the st. Paul and he is dealing with some squabble or a fishpond or something all these things he has to do they says I don't have time to pray hey you had stopped making the time for prayer he's like get rid of the stupid fish vomits so what else deal with that squabble but you don't have to do a commentary on Paul right now you don't have time we have to get our prayer life in order first and that's what led to his eventual departure from the faith so yes he was an evil man but the evil was in his heart I was in there long before he left the church because he stopped putting first things first in his life if that's the main thing we're wanting to preach you got to get your heart right with God you got to take and make time for prayer you've got to take time to learn the faith you've got to live the Catholic Way of life by the commandments be virtues better because if you don't you could become likely I could become worse than Luther and the second I forget that I'm in trouble because I have to remember that without God's help I could make them Luther look like a saint we have to remember who we are and come to God and say God you've got to keep me straight and Luther failed to do that and that's what led him to eventually start the Protestant revolt I don't call it a Reformation because it's not a reforming of anything it's a formation not a Reformation and the Catholic counter-reformation more a lot of good fruit no oh it certainly did that's the benefit that comes from heretics true it's it very great evil but if we has the proper reaction and fix what's wrong with us because Luther I haven't read his 95 theses I probably should I know not all of them were condemned by the church there was some things that needed work on a lot of things and this brought it to light unfortunately a lot of souls were lost in the process but if it hadn't happened a lot of difference --all would have been lost then they being recalled to their duty you know the bishops the priests and even the faithful became truly faithful again can you just talk briefly about some of your favorite heroes of the Catholic faith why the Saints I like is st. John huge he was around early 1600s in fact he is the founder of the devotions to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary they wrote a book on the Sacred Heart and he wrote a book on the Immaculate Heart both which are in English translation he also wrote a book the kingdom of Jesus and Christian Souls which is a very good spiritual book he's a very devout priest he found the you 'test fathers he was part of the continuation of the Counter Reformation you have st. John use st. Vincent DePaul st. Francis DeSales Saint Alphonsus they were all encouraging people to live a spiritual life in fact st. Vincent DePaul especially called for Reformation and preaching but I believe all four saints wrote on I believe oath so their writings are in English translation on how priests should preach the st. Vincent DePaul's and we don't need flowery sermons that people forget before they even get out of the pew we need sermons that strike the heart that teach the people how to become Saints you get a lot of your preachers at that time they wanted to be you know well thought oh I don't care from well thought of as long as people are practicing what they should and that's what I'm preaching in fact what we need to do and then is where you come to the reform of the clergy we have to practice what we preach and a lot of us don't some of the best sermons that I may have preached or the ones I needed to hear - I need to take to her that's that's what's important so I've named all four Saints there I like what about coax Pope st. Pius the tenth he he really had it together because he foresaw what was coming I mean well grew up in a modernist world our last really good proper Saints come from the mid-1800s st. John Bosco and goes with the fossil Saint John Vianney the Curie of ours st. Joseph's professor wrote a book on the priesthood which has been translated and you can get a hold of st. John Vianney sermons then you come to the last crop of thanks and the latest mid-1800s and then we slid downhill and they're not really it many priests or people whose life stand out what did you think of st. mother Theresa she's been canonized by my church recently did you admire her did you think like Christopher Hitchens that she was a fraud actually I think she was a fraud I've seen some stuff that makes me question her sanctity she was too equitable you wanted to encourage a Muslim to become a better Muslim well ideally I want that Muslim to convert and become a Catholic it will be very careful how I deal with them I'm not going to put pressure on but if I see an opening to bring the truth to him that's part of our evangelization which Vatican to kind of put on hold they got thank you meaningful rather than evangelizing and converting the world in fact a lot of people have now conformed to the world I fear for their salvation and so have you reached out to the Vatican this I guess you call it a Novus Ordo Church have you ever reached out or have they ever contacted you are you even on their radar I believe them on their radar I've never reached out and had a formal contact since 1992 when I sent a letter into the Vatican to notify them of some of the various heresies of Vatican 2 and I've discovered more since then but haven't had a real connection but I do know that they are aware of us 1990 Ken City Star called the Vatican when they did an article about my election then the reply was no common Wow when I had better cite statistics way back there was a visit from Vatican City State to the Vatican exile website no I think I believe they are aware of our existence but they're trying ignore us and hopefully just die out you like nice a second etc these others have died out can you talk a little bit about the heresies that are being taught since Vatican 2 things that I take for granted as Catholic that you say are not Catholic because I would be putting myself in danger if I'm believing in heresy no yes you would be one of the biggest ones is their position concerning false religions that they are actually means of grace can be found in false religion which the Church does not teach it's in several the decrees go on to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website and look at Vatican 2 and paper pronouncements on Islam where they say the Moslems worship the one true God I believe that well see that's wrong the Koran tells us that the is false they deny the divinity of Christ and then in I the Holy Ghost so they're got two different God than ours so their God which they call Allah is not God the Father Son and Holy Ghost therefore we worship different gods well we believe we worship the true God therefore they worship a false god and therefore back into is wrong on that statement and so our Paul the sixth john paul ii bandik 16th and now francis but do you not agree that God is a mystery and that you yourself don't even know everything about and not only do you not know everything about God there are things that you think you know about God that you're wrong and yet you still worship that God I like to think of it as an apprehension you apprehend this God the same way you would apprehend something magnificent like the ocean you may come into contact with it and you may appreciate it without having plumbed all of its depths and you may have some misconceptions about the ocean but you can still say I've touched it and it's made me wet so I think that the Muslims and the Jews and the Christians all apprehend the same God but they're just they haven't come to the fullness of the understanding of some of these essential truths about the nature of God that he's a Trinity that the second person incarnated and so on and so forth do you not understand that sort of perspective okay they may have an apprehension of God but part of it's wrong we need to acknowledge that the scripture is clear no word says all of the gods of the Gentiles are Devils the reason I'm comfortable with all of the monotheistic religions and that they do worship my God is because they have that philosophical understanding that everything in the material universe and even the immaterial spirit world was created out of nothing by God to me that is the core and essential distinction between the god of monotheism and any of the other gods of the other religions do you not see what I see that I see okay what you're saying is the monotheistic religions all have a proper concept of God created everything out of nothing it's okay yes you're right about God creating everything he has revealed himself to us over here where you believe he's revealed himself over there that's where the problem is do you have friends and family that are not Catholic and what's the relationship like with them well that's where I was last week was visiting family which you and I do have friends as well they know where I stand do you have an objection of that and you know I'll be my friend that's fine I will talk about spiritual points when there's an opening and try to tailor it to their level of understanding can you talk a little bit about the enemies of your papacy and the enemies of the Catholic Church who are they how do they manifest their hatred of Christ's I really don't focus on the enemies of the faith I mean I know they're out there but only if I come up face-to-face with an enemy well I deal with it because I don't have time to waste on enemies anymore that I have time to waste on useless discussions with people that go nowhere yeah what can you talk a little bit about private revelation in terms of operations of Our Lady and maybe some prophecy concerning the 20th and 21st centuries I know our Lady of good success talked a lot about the 20th century maybe Fatima had something to say about our times I don't know I'm no expert but does anything come to mind oh yes there's a lot on private revelation and there is a segment of traditionalism that's usually must lay people the priests and bishops are not usually involved in focusing on private revelations although if you look up Archbishop Affairs a sermon when he consecrated the for bishops equals from Our Lady of the success he quotes from the alleged secret of La Salette and I say a legend that actually has been placed on the index of forbidden books and the public nerd is approved that's this alleged secret which can Melanie later on and in fact that's something that does need to be addressed because there's a there's a large group of people who quote often Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Antichrist you wouldn't have heard that from any of your say to Mikado's priests or bishops they wouldn't quote that the fehb quoted that in his sermon though it that's a fascinating read well we know about the secret loss that Melanie asked about two things Antichrist and infallibility well the alleged third secret La Salette doesn't have anything about infallibility that's it okay I can throw it out right there because it doesn't discuss the one thing she asked about why didn't she was riding him down to send to Pope Pius tonight well pies tonight said unless you do pass you shall all likewise perish that's all you need to know about secret La Salette so we can leave it there I mean people are looking for any clue as to how can we get out of this mess anything help us sort it out so they look at private revelations while ignoring Sacred Scripture if they look at Sacred Scripture and the Fathers of the Church they would find out the traditions movements wrong Henry Edward Cardinal Manning who lived around the time of the first Vatican Council gave up theories of for talks which are compiled in the book present crisis the Holy See when the fourth talk he said all of the fathers of church tell us that at the time of Antichrist the Holy Sacrifice for the mass will cease completely nobody talks about that they'll talk about our Lady of Good SAS and I I did I like that message it's a very good message I think I've compiled six or seven private revelations at point to the last half of the 20th century as being a time crisis and looking at what actually happened that's my opinion so in other words that part of their private revelations appears to have been fulfilled but private revelation we don't have to believe any of it we don't have to believe anything comes from Fatima the church is declared there's nothing contrary to faith and morals and that you know something did happen there but that's when you get to the third secret which I don't think we'll ever see I think that what came out of the Vatican is a fraud when it came out yeah now curiosity it did read it there did think there's anything to it I think that it may have gone up in smoke because john xxiii supposed to have read it we'll never know and if there's anything in there we need to know God will send that information to us in a manner that we can be certain though no I'm not worried about private revelation what do you think about medgie gorya because I'm very petrified of that phenomenon I think it's satanic but I could be wrong obviously have you looked at it in the opinion uh what little I've seen ah major glory I tend to agree there's something seriously wrong there well what I always about with Guerra Bandol we're late 50s early 60s somewhere along in there at one time or another each one of the hair bundles Sears denied to the landing operations well that's good enough for me but what you had happened about nineteen fifty or so is what I call circuses like the seed of Wisconsin Bayside New York I've heard about him there's someone that went to both oh and there's a lot to question about both though but I think the devil brought up these circuses to confuse people there is a one I think Bishop Williamson is big on is a key to Japan and I've read a stone in Massachusetts it couldn't that will write something decent as well to confuse people and so since we draw a line fifty-eight why not just reject all these operations after fifty eight until all these various questions like who is Pope and what's the true God for the church all this stuff is settled and the church can then look into these operations if it's even worth bothering with because I don't need apparitions to know the faith I need the Catholic faith it's in the council's Church the teaching as well as in the church the Saints the Pope's and we have our catechisms published before fifty eight things that give me certain truth that's what I need I don't need Appalachians if God needs tell me one of you I think all of these things are distractions got awesomely from the devil yes we just need okay what does the teaching on marriage Jesus todd said the scriptures okay everything's we need knows clear the fathers of church coming right straight down all we need to do is reaffirm the truth now the matter with them Frances permitting divorced people to receive Holy Communion this is a matter of doctor there's some in his own church including priests bishops and I think even colonel have discussed the possibility what do we do if he holds to this heresy because he's departing from the Catholic faith I mean we're taught in seminary you cannot holy communion to a notorious public center okay someone who's divorced and remarried we believe they're in a bad they're not in a marriage because this this is a marriage over here so they're probably living in sin we can't give them Holy Communion what if they live like brother and sister is that okay uh this is when they have to submit to the authority of the church and get permission to live that way and has to be made no yes they have come to the church and the church has come to an accommodation explain to them this is what you can do this what you can't do they've agreed to abide by the rules of the church well that's why we have annulments because an annulment is not dissolving a marriage it's declaring a marriage never took place there was some defect and they're listed in the code of Canon Law look if you believe you're marrying a rich woman and you find out she's a popper okay her cell that's from that could invalidate if you married her because she is a rich woman but it's a very rigorous process because we have to be certain no marriage occurred and then an annulment can be given and that's there's been some laxity on the granting of annulments and if you read some of the books written by people they say well it was legally a marriage but not sacramentally well the church teaching is clear the marriage between two baptized person is a sacrament and you can't separate the two which is what people are trying to do to soften things okay there are consequences yes the children are technically illegitimate okay we're not gonna hold that over their head but it is a technical matter and we have to admit that they sometimes in our lives that are hard sayings what Jesus in John chapter 6 after he told them they should eat my body and drink my blood and have life is lasting did he run after that no I lost often no he turned the Apostles you go and do have you ever in your younger days have you ever strayed from the Catholic faith no I never straight from the Catholic faith I have been deceived than being the wrong position like when I would tidy st. Pius 10th for a while did not realize their position was wrong but no I never willfully urban failure can you talk to us before I let you go can you talk a little bit about your most recent convert like someone that came into the church and what role you might have played in that is there any example that you could give well I've got Trotter Francis Dominique who is now living here with me and as an assistant you probably be the most recent convert to the faith he started out as a Baptist he was a Mennonite but he was always seeking he end up eventually into the Novus Ordo Church he had some contacts with a traditionalist and as he was doing research trying to fit things out he ran across the bank in exile he made contact and we exchanged letters and phone calls and eventually he decided to come and then God held that out because he had heart trouble that held him up for a year and a half but he finally made it here just over two years ago and been working with me ever since and he is in fact doing most of the work on the back of neck website because he has a lot of insights having been to all these places but into a Bible College has a great knowledge of Scripture and he was a very great benefit to the church so just to wrap up the show what would you say to anyone that might be out there listening today the main message of the apocalypse is that God wins in the end and his church wins in fact Saint John used reports that all the Fathers of the Church an agreement that after the death of Antichrist the whole world will convert to become Catholic and what's more hopeful than that when we're all striving to do God's will and we're all on the same page when we're all in agreement on the important things such as the matters of faith just think what I'll tell all you got to do it is all you got to do is you got to do is

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