Catholic vs. Other - 2017-09-21 - Tino

Author Recorded Thursday September 21st, 2017

There are 41 episodes in the Versus:Other series.

Recorded September 21st, 2017

Catholic vs. Other - 2017-09-21 - Tino

Recorded September 10th, 2017

Catholic vs. Other - 2017-09-10 - Judah

Recorded September 2nd, 2017

Catholic vs. Other - 2017-09-02 - William

Recorded October 21st, 2016

Catholic vs. Other - 2016-10-21 - Ben

I met Tino more than a decade ago, through mutual friends. He lives in Belgium. Tino describes his religion as tribal gatherings and psychedelic medicines. He believes that we can access ultimate reality through altered states of consciousness. • Support the CVS Podcast: • Be a guest on a livestream:

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hi I'm Tino and you're listening to Catholic vs. other so just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself who you are what you believe and why you believe it I'm do you know working since twenty years and a mine and I believe in tribal gatherings and psychedelic medicines interesting how did you come to believe that because I tried them all okay can you talk before we get into the sex drugs and rock and roll we talked a little bit about your childhood like when you first encountered this idea of religion that there's a such a thing as religion Christianity Judaism Islam a sort of thing yeah so I'm born as a Christian my dad and my mom were not practicing Christians only when there was like something special we would go to the church for a wedding or funeral and I got baptized and later when I was seven years or eight years old I got my communion oh you're you're in the Catholic Church yeah okay which country were you raised in Belgium what about your grandparents all four believed I all knew one of my grandparents and I was a German know me and she believed she was like Christian she would go to church what did you think as a five year old six-year-old seven year old about God I was a big fan of Jesus Jesus was my guy number one I looked every Easter at all movies from Moses to Jesus and I liked the Roman movies and and I got the the feeling for Christianity like wow that this is a belief to to to to practice or to follow or to even read the Bible as it was a child I had this feeling to do that but then when I was eight years old my father died and I got in conflict with religion with God like why did he take my father and all this was so not fair yeah that was in short where I sort of turn my back towards the image of Jesus and the church and I had a brother 10 years older and he was already in the 70s Rolling Stones fan and deep purple and all this Pink Floyd and he was smoking hash when he was 17 so I was 7 he was 17 I saw my father finding it out trying to beat him to death and I was witnessing that then my brother ran away and this was about the next thing I wanted to investigate why he would risk his life to smoke hash what was making it so attractive to do that I was 7 years old then and then by the time I was 14 I smoked it and I found out what the purpose of it was and I was good and I continued to smoke it till now and I'm now 49 were there any spiritual experiences you had because of hashish or marijuana we are plenty because I would find a soul of a piece and I had to do it in nature I couldn't do it at home so my mom couldn't find out so we would hang out in nature first and then after we would hang out and he would plop smoking at a nun go in the youth club have a beer from 69 we could drink beer so then I found out that I couldn't mix alcohol and hash and luckily that this was the case otherwise I would have been alcoholist oh really yeah because when I was 18 I had to go an army it was obligated and then the army would get beer almost for free so I could drink 20 beer and still stand with a straight face talking to and I did that like everybody did at an army and when I came out of the army I turned my back to alcohol again because I went to travel and I went to Thailand and beer in Thailand cost 60 baht and to have a bungalow on the beach for a night cost also 60 baht so the choice is quickly made if you're on a low budget so alcohol was anyhow nobody drink alcohol there because everybody was psycho noting like I say so can you can you just describe in brief terms the journey into the tribalist worldview that you have yeah in short it's so powerful that I believe that our society is not really working as it's supposed to be should be our society is not but there is society on earth where where it's working and that's called a tribal society and these people gather and parties all over the world the the discoveries you make there with people they're so moving and life changing that this became a way of life for me in a way and you can maintain a career or work life and have your tribal religion on the side that was my big dilemma 20 years ago when I discovered two tribal families I didn't want to go away anymore I wanted to stay with them but on the other hand I still have strong family feelings and my mother was there alone and I would say as long as my mom is alive I would stay around her in any case something would happen I would be there so I turned my back to the tribal family in a way of saying no I cannot stay because they wanted me to stay and and I came back to the reality as we know it and that was 20 years a big dilemma for me but I had to accept it because my mom is still alive and as long as that is I stay around her and around her staying means I have to work for money I cannot I cannot do other than work for money but at work I'm working with computers since 20 years but for me the technological revolution it's not a revolution it's a program to program people to program society and that's very scary that's what changed in the last 25 years that I see that people don't have contact with each other anymore but they have contact with their iPhone and they take they have contact with other human but still they have contact with an intelligence inside a phone and that's wrong and the consequences of all this is not being seen yet because there's going to be in the next generation all the kids that grow up now will run around with spectacles on their face they need glasses because their eyes get ruined by the blue light of the screens and that's also very scary and you see governments are promoting this stuff because they want to control people and the ultimate control is like this book of Orson Welles 1984 it's happening now it's it's happening full-on and he saw that already in the 60s happening for me this new world order is there already it's not it's not a future image anymore it's there like if you see what kind of people are running the planet it's ridiculous I cannot say it otherwise they want to find out what we see okay they want to find out with what we have contact and they want to find out what the power behind this is and they want to find out who is actually running the planet and that's the thing it sounds unbelievable but it is there it's all around us that we don't see it do you believe in a supernatural world like a realm that parallel to this or above this yeah very much I believe in multiple universes where we are coexisting at the same time like I can give you a small example the strongest house Janak drug on the planet is called DMT and it's also called to God molecule it's for me when I take it I go to the other side I go there where I when I die I go there so I've been through the tunnel I've seen the light I come to the other end it was very scary the first time and I thought I was dead it was black and then the blackness disappeared and it became all eyes and the eyes took the fear and the panic away and I was instantly happy and then the eyes disappeared again it came dark but from the darkness came colors and I was in sort of a cave system and this was my first time there and as soon as I realized that I was there I opened my eyes and I wasn't in the reality anymore that I was normally sitting 10 minutes before I was in a reality of energy and light and colors and my brother was sitting there with a face only one color was shining out of it then I knew that I was still in the same room so I closed my eyes again and I was back there so to realize this - to be able to do this while you're living it makes you very curious and you want to do this more and at the right time you will find more because you cannot find it easily and it took me from 95 96 from the first time though 99 the second time with the dmt yeah it's coming from a plant they crystallise it they put some chemical compound to it to make it split so the the crystal comes floating on top they take that off they dry the crystal and you can smoke it okay and DMT is also naturally in your brain and your pineal gland and when you die the moment you die your pineal gland will send the DMT molecule out and it will flush your brain and you will be there a derivative DMT is called Changa and it's you can find this at 50% GMT or 30% DMT and it's a milder trip you also get hallucinations but you still can see the world around you DMT only takes 10-15 minutes and then you become a normal person again but with an experience you know will never forget because it doesn't stay for six or eight hours working actively it goes 10 minutes 15 minutes you're there and then you come back and the after of factors maybe for one hour or two hours you feel very powerful very energetic very fit and healthy because it's sort of the same time it's also a strong medicine like ayahuasca as a medicine have you tried that ayahuasca yeah I tried that in 1999 is it similar it's very similar but extremely much longer oh and more scary Oh darker that depends on the person if a person is more a positive person it will be pleasant but if the prayer if there is a negative presence in a person it will break out and it will not be nice with ayahuasca it's too dark for that it's not a party drug at all it's a medicine to get every poison every inch of poison out of your body and soon you drink it half an hour later you're puking and - me - right yeah incredible yeah everything comes out of you and then you are like free free to go into your dream of what you see do people usually wash some people have to be taken care of because they are crying on the floor for a couple of hours of anxieties stress that's coming out other people are enjoying it more and they can refresh themselves after of courses and then the the the shaman will come with the rose water also to wash you with rose water and then he has a bush of herbes he will beat you with a cushion of herbes and then he will sing to you or whistle to you in this way the whistle I never forgot I don't know if I'm able to do it now that's it when he was going around from person to person you would wrestle that you know whistle as you work you know I have the holy an almond oil you do yeah holy a friend of mine makes it what is it Catholic I don't know about that if you see Catholic but he's a he's a let's say the pagan okay maybe he was born Catholic it's possible that his parents are Catholic oh no because the church has holy oil for anointing he took the recipe out of Genesis verse I don't know the whole recipe is in there except they don't say marijuana flour they just say flour but it's the marijuana that's one of this and he took the exact recipe with the mirror and everything he puts in there and it's 90 percent THC and if you take three drops of that you have a religious experience I tell you it's like LSD it's like oh let's get everything gets more vibrant little little h more color you know like it's not hallucination but everything gets more clear and your body gets totally relaxed and you get focused on using it big smile and tres falls off of you and I believe that 2000 years ago when they start baptizing people they were giving them wholly alone or non-middle they would wash them with it a man it can go through this slit a higher it goes to your skin it it also when you have skin cancer for instance you put a drop of this oil every day on that skin cancer two weeks later it's gone oh so powerful it is yeah so I want you to talk a little bit about mental illness of course there are people who are aggressively dangerous and they have to be locked away from normal people because it's too dangerous to keep them there but I mean the whole psychiatric adventure is for me very ashaming the whole industry behind it is even more criminal and drives people into more craziness than they have to have and we are suffering under it if if you just look at it at the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest it tells you enough that was a reality then but it's still now like that and they have to change the whole system by instead of using these horrible medicines give people psychedelics and give them the psychedelics they need for their disease to become a little bit functional and usable in society that's why I choose for tribal and not for a system like we have now if you live tribal the community will take care of you because there is no other way even a killer wouldn't get locked up in a tribal situation you would get punished in a way but they would still accept him he made a mistake but he could continue to live in that village and tribal circumstances and it would be ok what do they do now with people they locked him up and the worst circumstances with the worst psychopaths and they come out even more crazy mmm what do you expect of that this is ridiculous what is depression what do you think depression is chronic oppression for me depression is when you are angry and you cannot tell it to anybody and you take your anger for a couple of years with you and all of a sudden it takes over and you're depressed so when you're angry and you cannot get rid of your anger you will get depressed so from your perspective the answer is the opposite of repression its expression yeah yeah can you talk just just a story not maybe about yourself but maybe someone you know that was allowed to express themselves and got out of a dark hole where they didn't have hope and why you might think it went that way I mean for the positive transformations like I said like with these parties comes a certain side circus with people who are doing meditation yoga healing massages you name it it's there and one of the things is Vipassana meditation and mostly people who were taking too much parties in a row they would lose touch with reality and then they would go to Vipassana and have a silent treatment for ten days they would come back as a changed person they would most of the time found themselves again but in a way they never found themselves before so they don't want to be the old person anymore and they come out and they rip up their passports and they don't want to go back to wherever they come from and they want to stay there in paradise I would say in in Utopia so you believe in Buddhism to a certain extent yeah I can find myself in a lot of this it's not a religion it's a moral philosophy of life yeah but I'm not like practicing Buddhist I would say I try to be as good person everyday as I can be and that's it for me did you do the ten day silence I just it on my own I did it on my own I didn't go to a ashram or shrine or anything that's a step too far for me because I'm like how you can say i saw ganga in a way all my life and what does happen like you don't need anybody else to be happy with things you can be happy on your own and you don't need a bunch of friends to feel good you you just are on your own good and that's it it's a German word and so Ganga okay I don't know how to translate it to English in the 25 years of that I'm following in this scene you see newcomers coming and people change within a year they're a different person most of them to the good but some of them are left over with bad habits the wrong drugs that came from to thousands on people who were influenced in the scene by the wrong drugs and after three four years they disappear you don't see them anymore but that's that's the downside of it what are some of these dark drugs GHB that's a liquid substance made out of chemicals and one of the chemicals is toilet cleaner they used and the other two chemicals I don't know exactly because it's not my kind of thing but it's three chemicals you can get in a hardware shop so everybody can make this and you take a little bit too much of it and you get in a coma you lie there for eight hours in a coma and you don't know what's happening with you because you don't know you don't know it anymore you're in a coma and that's very sad to see with young people we started using this and another thing is kept them in they use it as a party drug and dance up and in very bad addiction yeah is that the date-rape drug or one of the date-rape drugs I would say GHB okay GHB is more the date-rape drug because captain man gets you out of your body but you are crystal clear in this other dimension so if something happens with your body you will notice and you will react on it so you have the ability to come back and defend yourself go back again but GHB doesn't do that GHB puts you in a coma and you don't know they can do anything with you and that's that's more the date-rape drug does this happen unfortunately in your scene not so much luckily in our scene not so much actually you hear it happening on the mega mega big festivals the commercial ones there this can happen but in now seeing it doesn't happen really awful bad things do you know anyone that was well balanced and then because of drugs became imbalanced permanently oh yeah plenty of people can you recognize beforehand that they might be in a risky situation yeah yeah especially people who have a mental disorder and they can still function in reality in the norm reality of everyday but sometimes they have outburst of you say psychosis psycho they are not Prosecco mania mania or especially bipolar or people bipolar people shouldn't mess with psychedelics without somebody there who can help them it can get really out of hand okay what about the afterlife you said you mentioned with DMT that you've been to the other side mm-hmm in my worldview Catholicism there's an extreme difference between the best-case-scenario heaven and the worst-case-scenario hell and you don't want to go to hell no one wants to go to hell they might think they want to but they don't want to does your worldview give you two extremely different outcomes or does everyone end up in a nice place mmm everybody ends up in the same place and it will feel free for the first time it's a happy ending for everybody oh yeah yeah okay you feel free for the first time because here on earth we all change chained to something to consumer to a partner to two children to two property to whatever we are chained to everything and we are not really feeling freedom or happiness in the afterlife does it last forever this happiness and fulfillment yeah so it sounds to me like the best advice you could give anyone ever is kill yourself because there's no downside it's just when we only wait life is a gift this we should realize all that life is a gift for everybody it doesn't matter where you are born but kill yourself is not an option because if there's one thing you have to respect its life and if you kill yourself you don't respect life and you end up somewhere in a dark place oh so you can end up in a dark place you can end up in a dark place for a long time till you're ready to go where you are free everyone goes to heaven but it's a really long and painful journey for those who went the wrong way exactly I think the Hindus say the same thing do you believe in reincarnation the other thing I'm still thinking about what will be after this eternal freedom and happiness there must be another way to get out of this because I can imagine that eternal freedom and happiness will start boring after a while and you want to get out of that I disagree I think that happiness freedom fulfillment love joy and peace and all these things are good and that's why we craved them and that's why when we when we get to heaven if we get to heaven we're going to enjoy those things without boredom don't take me wrong with getting bored saying getting bored because that's the wrong word it's it's getting to another planet for instance yeah you get to heaven you stay there for a while you happy you have to accomplish these good things and good things and you have to work with the universe to create these things and then at one point you get a task again but on another planet in another universe and then it's knots all over again like an example is when me and my wife we smoked the first time Changa by accident and after she is like coming back and I see she's like in the real world again and then I asked her what did you see and then she said I saw who you are in the other world like what do you mean yeah you were full of tattoos in your face lines and a different color you had and you looked like you were a warrior in another world I'm like are you serious and then I sort of realized that there are multi verses and maybe we are already active in different planets because it's so complex we cannot categorize it dying heaven and reincarnation or staying in heaven I don't know it's much more complex once you've been there you realize oh this is actually what does make us do things this here are not not your boss on earth but this up here is leading us is making things with us without us realizing it we think we are the super intelligent but it's coming from somewhere else it's not us that are doing this all here do you believe the you and I are two separate beings or ultimately are we one being that's fragmented in a dream yeah that's what it is yeah yeah like our planet is a brain on itself and we are living on it and we are under influence of it your brain is now interacting with my brain it's not just because I'm talking which is just the frequencies our brains are producing these waves this magnetic field around us is colliding with each other and I think ancient civilizations had telepathy and we are not able anymore since maybe bubble oh I've had telepathic experiences me too what is most real to you if it's not this physical world obviously what is most real to you to me it would be God God Almighty who always was always as no it will be to me for me it is also God but I don't go call it God anymore and I find it in my psychedelic experience it loads my battery tremendous I do it mainly in summertime one time in the winter maybe and four times in the summers and five times a year I do something I take some classes or some MDMA or I smoke the occasional DMV or chuggabug this became my religion because this opens up reality and for me it is every time a religious experience it is tremendous overpowering are there dark forces in that other route yeah but it's separate it's like yin and yang it's like said there is a border where the bad is there is a light of good where you can escape again okay and where the good is there is a light of bad where you can escape again like this I see have you gone to the dark side yeah but not long because it's very scary hmm why would anyone remain there cuz they're kept there oh because when I got there all of a sudden all these eyes were looking at me and all these eyes were the same I Archer but they were there a million times and they decide about you they look at you they decide about you in an instant you got happy or I don't know what happens you stay in a panic and it closes again and stays dark and you stay in a panic you cannot escape it only these eyes can take it away from you and when they close again and they take it away from me and they close again then it changes into a colorful environment cave system whatever way you get mm-hmm what do you think love is true love something you not only know but you've your body feels and your body tells you it's good and only when your body tells you it's good and your brain is along with that then you have love okay it's a holistic thing yeah organic yeah it's this interaction also what the brain waves what I was talking about we are producing electricity we are making sparks in our brain and we are producing electricity so we have a magnetic field and our brain has certain hearts producing also this vibrant energy and we tap on it what is the connection between sex and love hmm I don't feel like having sex if I don't have the feeling of love it's like these guys going to a hooker and paying for it and disappearing after I don't believe in that I rather would make love with myself and masturbate than doing that so then I have a feeling of love so for me love is connected with sex it's an illusion otherwise it's a lie could it be the person is just so damaged that they don't want the intimacy they would rather just have a pleasure yeah you're honest for them it's an escape to block that off but I don't know if it works you know in a lifetime it will work for five years ten years but then when you get unattractive and older it gets more difficult to have these tender dates and then it doesn't work anymore then you need somebody who loves you but then you owe them most times more ugly or unhealthy and you're not able to do that anymore then it's too late mm-hmm your story with your mother's love touch me because it involves sacrifice you sacrificed a lot to stay with your mother right so your mother gave up a lot for you and you gave up a lot for her ultimately sacrifice I think is a big part of love is that fit in with your worldview - yeah yeah sacrifice yeah like I'm 15 years married now and every year I come to Canada to spend my holiday with old people yeah and that's sort of a little bit of sacrifice on my side to spend my holidays with old people but meanwhile I have the time of my life I learn a lot from old people and Canada for instance just by being in Canada just by being yeah Canada is a very beautiful country but it's not nice for its people and summertime you get eaten by box and then wintertime you freeze to that you cannot smoke outside so you have to stop smoking that is good for you though but for the rest very unfriendly for your body I agree and I'm born where you shouldn't complain today 25 degrees today and no skeeters around September 21st is it already I think it's a September 20 happy solstice yeah usually I give my guests a little chance to question my faith just because there are a lot of critics of the Catholic faith are you ready yeah so if you have any questions about my faith this would be the time how do you feel about going on accusations that a lot of Catholic priests are involved in pedophilia and affairs between men and women yeah I don't like it I don't like it it's it's disgusting when religious hypocrites are pretending to be something they're not and god only knows what's inside someone's heart but it's pretty obvious to me knowing the church as I do that the remedies are all there the remedies are there in the sacraments the remedies are there in the in prayer and there's so there's so much grace in the church that I don't see how you can maintain that sickness for too long maybe they have mental illness but I would say that that's rare would say most of the time it's just people that are pretending to be religious and that are using the church as a cover and in some cases people that want to destroy the church from within there's always been infiltration in the church from the Freemasons from different enemies of the church that want to bring it down with a long game where its generations of people entering the church with decades of work going into this infiltration the ultimate goal being to rise right to the top and get a pope on Peters seat yeah it's ridiculous but it's true were you thinking that Pope Francis might be a an evil man oh yeah I was one of the evil forces on earth yeah I see the evil that you see but I see that as a spiritual battle that's taking place because the churches is valuable that's why it's coveted by the nobles and a sense of a lot of money no my lord that's money and power again they are there and they stop one pyramid I see it as a struggle for souls and God wants to save souls and Satan and his demons want to destroy so horse that's how I see it yeah yeah so Satan is within the Vatican I think he's at work yeah he's at working in Attica yeah and Hollywood is always right with their silly movies and if you see their Devil Wears Prada who Wears Prada he was a fan of red vilasa I don't think he chose that he just went along with it but I mean I'm not talking bad about the Pope now for instance the word is that he dresses at night as a normal man and he goes onto the street in Rome and he helps too poor people were living on the street and he brings them to a shelter so I'm not accusing him straight of being in connection with Satan but Satan hasn't worked there also you know like yeah what do you think of the Saints the Catholic saints throughout history are there any that you admire like for example Saint Francis of Assisi yeah yeah these are nice stories oh sorry yeah are familiar with these stories yeah I'm familiar with them and I admire these people for for what they or standing for some of these things are for many people saying for this I'm a Christian for this I became a Christian for this for this for this holy man yeah inspired by the goodness of the sense of these stories of the saints okay yeah I'm Christian because of the Saints yeah yeah yeah because of love so other other than sex is there anything else he wanted to ask me about in the church okay I can go yeah like I've seen the church active in India for instance I've stayed Goa for several months every year or two a couple years in a row and the Guha is a province in India where Catholicism was brought by the Portuguese so it's already a while there and Igor became mainly Christian the Christian community and who is very I would say like it was here in the 40s and 50s that the priests had all the power in the village and you see how the system of a belief Christianity in this case can abuse other people who are not Christian and these other people who are not Christian are the workers and wha they come from other states where they are much poorer and they go to families in Goa and they are working there all their life with their family and their kids will work all their life with that family if they are lucky the Catholic Church and Angua has orphan houses they run off in houses they help kids who are without parents they picked them up the tree to grow them up until the boys are ten years old and the girls with eight years old they are getting placed in a family to live the rest of their life and work the rest of the life for the family and the working starts for the girls with eight years old then they seem to be seen mature enough and for the boys ten years old and they seem to be strong enough to work for the rest of their lives so that's kind of setting to observe in name of a religion and it's not because it's Christian religion it's many religions do that look at Mother Teresa she was in Kolkata the orphan mafia what is happy yeah they provide a business for working children child whether they provide a platform for that they pick the kids up from the street they feed them till they're strong enough and then they go get placed into some family or into factories or whatever okay I have to work for the rest of your life their childhood and when they're strong enough to work and I mean those are those are the happier ones and the ones did not get picked up from the street they end up in worst cases they end up in child prostitution and it's the church running that ring too no no okay no I wouldn't say that no no they of course they they know who's running it the police knows who's running it everybody knows who's running it and what it's happening on such a big scale that they cannot do if you're the mother of one of these gangster guys that's running a sex trade you know do you still love your son then speak to your son and have him for dinner I don't think so no maybe they were raised in the sex trade yeah most of them all um Sri Lanka Sri Lanka is an island under India and that's for me the biggest pile of fuel island in the world when not many people go on holiday but the most to go there are going for sex of course and with minors women as men and most the boys get abused and the girls are get put in golden cage by the family because they are going to marry and that means that the girl has worked more than a boy and a boy they put into prostitution from six years old or four years old I don't know and by the time they're 18 they're destroyed human beings or not even human beings anymore monsters so it's very dark at the end of my interview and the wrap things up now at the end of my interview I asked my guest to speak directly to the audience and just say something positive just a little message of hope so just to wrap up the show what would you say to anyone take one of your daily rituals and don't do them anymore I would say don't switch your TV on when it snows time skip the nospace like I love you if you got some questions all you got to do is s all you got to do is is