Catholic vs. Protestant - 2019-08-07 - Jennifer Murdock

Author Recorded Wednesday August 7th, 2019

There are 31 episodes in the Versus:Protestant series.


Jennifer had misgivings but finally agreed to talk to me because her husband Matthew (who introduces this episode) encouraged her to hear me out. I was very moved and touched by her sweetness and innocence. I also admire her staunch defense of the sovereignty of God in the face of what she probably sees as a Satanic cesspool of Idolatry, Mariolatry, and Sacrilege. I assured her that God is good. God alone.


Catholic vs. Protestant - 2019-08-07 - Jennifer Murdock

Author Recorded August 14th, 2016

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These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
My name is Matthew Murdock this conversation is a recording of my wife reaching out to my best friend David Ross in total desperation over the last several weeks she's been struggling with intense waves of anxiety and panic attacks and severe depression along with spiritual despair she's been troubled by certain verses of Scripture that she's sure is condemning her to hell over her past sins part of this is due to a chemical imbalance she's also pregnant so having these hormones and these attacks and it's just rendering her nearly incapacitated and she didn't know what to do she's a Protestant anti-catholic and it was a lot for her to reach out to my friend who she knows is a Catholic and who she disagrees with theologically but she agreed to speak with them and I think this is one of the most beautiful conversations I've ever heard I love my wife even more just listening to it and my brother David appreciate him so much so if anyone is out there struggling with depression this will really be abused to you I believe hi sorry not a problem but so you've been a little bit stressed out or what yeah I have a history of depression and anxiety that tends to get a lot worse than I'm pregnant and then perseverating I'm certain verses of the Bible and that's not a healthy thing to do I realize it just feels very hopeless at the moment I really I hesitate to talk to you because I really don't believe a lot of the Catholic doctrine I certainly don't agree with worshiping Mary and confessing to a priest oh yeah well you don't have to do that you don't worship Mary no you you Jennifer you don't have to do any of that you don't have to do anything you don't wanna do you understand but do you worship Mary I see the worth of Mary so in that sense yeah I worship her in that sense but not as God she's not God you believe she have a role in salvation yes all graces come through our hands well yeah I don't know how so sorry I missed me well just consider me like a human being I mean obviously I'm fallible just like any other human being but someone who cares and might be able to give you some kind of support you know that's all there is to it you don't need to convince me to abandon the Catholic Church no I'm not trying to do that I just you know it's hard to trust somebody's judgement if you know they're not like my face yeah I would suggest that you don't trust my judgement I would suggest it you don't trust me at all but you can talk to me so I mean if you want to talk I'm here for you if you don't that's fine but we don't need to turn it into a battle obviously we disagree but I've never met anyone on the planet that I agree 100% about everything everyone everyone believes different things even you believe differently from the people that you trust the most like your postures and your friends and colleagues you have a different set of beliefs that's just reality you know well I guess I'll tell you what I'm dealing with and you can have been gone I listen to your opinion you know just take that for what it is a human if anything that's it I mean I don't know what you told my husband when he was having a crisis of faith it seems to a greatly impacted him I um I thought I was saved you know when I was a child and went to church and study the word and stuff and for reasons I don't you know well I can't understand that my was double minded I was not relying on Christ for my complete identity I was seeking after worldly things kind of having one foot the world with her in church and I think and during that period I believe I effect another people's salvation and I don't really do scriptural room for repentance from that and certain verses primarily matthew 18:6 and i don't know if that's because my thinking is very distorted because of the state of depression and anxiety and hormones that i'm in but it feels very real and the winnings of Jesus are very stern and I can't claim ignorance because I knew better you know and I reached out to these people and you know one girl in particular she doesn't follow the Lord anymore and whosoever cause was one of these little ones to stumble better for them to have a millstone hung about their neck could be thrown into the sea and most of the commentaries I read I thought speaks of eternal damnation so that's kind of where I'm at you know yet well God is good and God is infinite in His goodness he's infinite in his mercy and you are not God so God already knows you he knows everything about you your strengths which he gave you and all the weaknesses which come from you and which come from sin original and actual so he knows he already knows you are surprised but God is not surprised so right now you find yourself in a state where you are taken aback and you are shocked and horrified by yourself but God knew before he created you he knew every sin that you would do God created everything and he said that it is good and he created humanity and he said it is very good he knew that the fall would happen he knew that Adam and Eve would betray God but Adam and Eve are saved they're in heaven can you honestly tell me you really feel like you've ever affected someone foliation them even if it was only for sure I can think of many instances and I have to go to the mercy of God I have to throw myself at the mercy of God and I have to remind myself that yes I'm weak but God is strong and yes I'm a sinner but God is perfectly good and just and holy and merciful he does not want anyone to be lost he wants all men to be saved and all you have to do is trust in his mercy stop dwelling so to speak on your sins because your sins before you commit your sins your sins are very serious but once your sins have been committed there in the past you can't change it all you can do is throw yourself on God's mercy ask for forgiveness and you need to trust and believe that God is good and God's mercy is so much bigger than any sin that you have committed or that you will commit and it's an act of humility to acknowledge that look God look what I did I feel bad about what I did but I can't change it God can you help me can you forgive me and of course the answer is yes he wants you to come back to him than to throw yourself on his mercy and he like I selling you over and over again he forced all all of it you know he doesn't you know I mean yeah he said the garden was good but he didn't say the thing you know that was before the fall you know sin is not good sin is evil it has no substance it's a parasite on the good so you need to think about yourself as a creature of God and everything he created is good and the choices you made yes the choices you make are yule and some of your choices you make are sinful but God foresaw all of that it's the goodness in you that is created by an all good God that you need to acknowledge you need to thank God for that and you need to turn to Him and to admit yes you deserve damnation it's true you do so do I so if there's every human that ever lived I don't think I have any goodness and me like a person I really I really I don't think people do have goodness with me no apart from God no but you know what I'm saying like I mean there's none righteous no not one you know we've altered the story so we we can't claim any goodness of our own right yeah what I like to say is that I get all of the blame and none of the credit and I wouldn't have it any other way because I worship not myself I worship God and it's a mystery that we can't comprehend but God loves us he created us and He loves us in spite of our weakness in spite of our sins and it is a dangerous battle it is a very dangerous life that we're living here in this fallen world we are prone to sin we are prone to make mistakes and we are prone also like you said to having chemical imbalances during pregnancy and hormonal changes and stresses and concerns that will make us fall into these dark pits of despair but it is a sin to despair of your own salvation you're not permitted by God to despair you're not permitted to say I'm going to hell that is a sin you need to say I deserve hell but I'm going to heaven why because in this moment right now today in spite of everything I've done which is evil all the sins that are committed right now in this moment I give my if I throw myself on the infinite mercy of God and that's it that's a situation that we're all in and this is the constant struggle that we have to be detached not only from the world we need to be detached from our own pride where we would say look what I did look at how holy I am look how good I am and look at how much progress I made in in my walk with God we really need to be humble every moment of every day and say look I can't do anything God without you please help me please have mercy on me yet again you know he loves you he's he's ready to forgive you and it's not hard but you need to swallow your pride and there's part of you I think that's holding on because of pride and I don't know you but I'm just saying in human nature we tend to cling to our sins we cling to the things our history and it's not always good so if you can try to be detached try to just throw yourself on God's mercy that's my advice I mean personally do you do you wrestle with those sorts of passages that just seem all nothing I mean do you is that a conflict for you at all or is that yeah no no it is sobering it's very sobering but we need to take a step back and we need to say well look why am I making a big fuss right now about my sins why am i making a mountain out of a molehill God already knows everything and he knows that I'm a sinner so I should not get excited if we have anxiety and we have depression that does not come from God that's not the Holy Spirit when you have peace when you have joy even amid sufferings then you know that that's from God so we need to detach from these states of mind and I know that they're beyond our control I mean it may be diet it might be the weather it might be all kinds of things that are beyond your control but you can submit and you can accept that suffering and unite it to the sufferings of Christ even if it's the sufferings of self-doubt even if it's the sufferings of anxiety even if it's the sufferings of thinking that you have led someone astray unite that suffering of helplessness and despair unite it to the sufferings of Jesus give it to him and then detach from it let go of it because you need to find peace you need to find peace with yourself and with God and you can't do that if you turn every one of your sins into a museum piece or a project or some sort of great flag that you're waving that's not the point of Christianity the point of Christianity is that Jesus Christ died for your sins he suffered for your sins and the only way for you to not be crushed by that is to give it up give it to Jesus Christ he carried it he carried that weight and you cannot carry it you'll be crushed by it so you really don't have any choice if you want to have peace you have to give it to him if you sinned greatly then you're getting more mercy and I often think about this as a convert because I was an atheist for 25 years when I think about those nice old ladies at church the nice old ladies at church that never really did big sins when I compared myself with them in the huge sins that I did in a way I feel that I'm spoiled by God that I have more because of that sin this is what Jesus said of Mary Magdalene I believe she loves much because she was forgiven much right so you don't to push that too far obviously and you don't want to sin so that Grace's can multiply as Paul says but I just want you to have peace I want you to have unity with the sufferings of Jesus Christ and I want you to detach from yourself and throw yourself into the ocean of mercy that's what I want for you and I'm gonna be praying for you and I would appreciate especially during this dark time if you pray for me and my broken family my mother has mental illness she's suicidally depressed and so I'd appreciate in this dark time that you're going through if you could detach from yourself and to think about those in my family that are suffering send a prayer for me if you look please I like the other time and if there's one thing I can relate to it's being to effectively the prostatectomy and I'm so sorry that your mom is plagued by that it's horrible and yeah I have a definitely pray that graceful free her from that thank you very much I mean he seemed like a very sincere person I really don't understand the Mary thing I'm sorry I appreciate you talking to me and my husband thinks of the church I go to a satanic do you think that I think Jesus Christ built one church and if you're baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit that you are a Christian and we refer to you as our separated brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ and unity is from God and division is from Satan but Jesus Christ promised us that the weeds will be among the wheat until the very end so we need to manage our expectations and we need to love people as people not categorize them and look down on them and demonize them and it's easy it's the easiest thing in the world to demonize someone and their religion if it differs from your own right and I certainly don't want to do that either I mean I you know I believe that what you believe is important I mean I don't think all roads lead to heaven or anything like that you know yeah you talk like you know Jesus it's just I just don't know how you do that and then trust and you know even partially in another human being for your salvation that doesn't make sense to me yeah I don't trust any human being I only trust Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ told me that it's better for me if he goes and sends his Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth with the church that he built so that's who I trust I trust Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ and his mystical body the church are one flesh this is what st. Paul says it's a deep mystery but they are one flesh they are united as in matrimony as in marriage so that's why I trust the church because the church is one with Jesus Christ right yeah I think so I mean I mean you know Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except by me so I really don't see where Mary fits into that I mean it just doesn't seem to jive at all I'm not saying that she wasn't incredibly blessed you know an important figure or anything like that that she was a human being just as a news the salvation of the rest of us from my perspective yeah yeah she needed to be saved and she was saved by a special prevenient grace which means that by the merits of Jesus Christ she was preserved from original sin now why did he do that he did that so that she would not be serving two masters right she could not be a slave of Satan and the mother of Jesus Christ so a special grace was given to her to prevent her from being contaminated by original sin but we need to trust God God is able to do whatever he wants he didn't even need to incarnate and take on human flesh at all he could have just forgiven our sins from heaven or he could have let the whole human race be damned but he's good he's merciful and so he came to earth he took on flesh when the Virgin Mary and he suffered and died for us and this is this is a beautiful and wonderful thing that we can take advantage of well we have time but our time here is limited and we can't waste our time fighting with each other and worrying about our sins we need to make a firm resolution never to sin again and then stop worrying just love God and realize that on your own power you can't do anything good you get all of the blame and none of the credit do you think you've reached that point where you don't fit anywhere me myself yeah I doubt it I I don't think that I'm gonna reach that stage but god only knows what he has in store for me if you looked at my day-to-day life now you'd see lots and lots of sin they might be considered small sins but their selfishness vanity pride greed gluttony sloth I feel like I'm sinning most of the time now do I lay awake at night worrying about that no I know that I'm a sinner and I know that I don't want to sin ever again in theory I'd rather die right now than ever commit one tiny sin but that's not reality and that's not the way that my walk with God is unfolding and I need to learn how to trust God more just like I'm counseling you to trust God more I need to trust God more so I know that I'm just a little baby and when Jesus said let the children come unto me and you have to be like a little child to go to heaven he wasn't joking it's absolutely deadly serious we need to be innocent simple and have that childlike love and God is father you know we need to remember that God is father that is one things I mean that's ironic that sort of a Protestant pastor was telling me earlier I hear you and I mean as long as you can tell me that you're honestly trusting in Jesus Christ and him alone and your faith alone and him for your salvation I would consider you a brother in Christ thank you would you say that yes I would say that yes well I will certainly pray for you and I'm very glad I got the opportunity to talk it gives me a great deal of compassion for you and I appreciate you speaking your compassion into my situation we taking the time to call someone you don't know and who has been hostile toward you huh I confess that I mean I'm sorry it's okay it's nothing you know I didn't know of you and I was just trying to protect my family and yes thank you and I appreciate your thoughts and they very much coincide with what other counselors from a different perspective have been sharing with me so thank you thank you maybe we'll talk again sometime I love you okay nice talking to you okay if any of you are so inclined please pray for my wife and me so that I can comfort her and be what she needs for me to be and that she would find comfort and hope and joy and salvation and that we would all find true salvation God have mercy on us all

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