episode 10 live from Montreal Quebec Canada this is CBS and now here's your host David Ross welcome back it's my first triple header here three in a row bing-bang-boom like I said I'm snowed in today so I'm taking advantage and plowing through a lot of this Vatican 2 we're still on the dogmatic Constitution on the church we just talked last time about Blessed Virgin Mary and how she represents the church she is the model of the church and I was sort of rushing through that last paragraph so I'll just read it again or merry prefigured profoundly in the history of salvation and in a certain way excuse me for Mary figured profoundly in history of salvation and in a certain way unites and mirrors within herself meditate on that hence when she is being preached and venerated she summons the faithful to her son and his sacrifice and to love for the father seeking after the glory of Christ the church becomes more like her exalted model and continually progresses in faith hope and charity searching out and doing the will of God in all things hence the church in her apostolic work also rightly looks to her who brought forth Christ Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin so that through the church Christ may be born and grow in the hearts of the faithful also the Virgin Mary in her own life lived an example of that maternal love by which all should be fittingly animated who cooperate in the apostolic mission of the church on behalf of the rebirth of men beautiful sentiments we should meditate on Mary we should meditate on the church and above all we should seek to find the church and get into the church and stay in the church and help moving on now we're talking about devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary still here but this Synod earnestly exhorts theologians down at the bottom here this Synod urgent earnestly exhorts theologians and preachers of the Divine Word that in treating of the unique dignity of the mother of God they carefully and equally avoid the falsity of exaggeration on the one hand and the pursuing the study of Sacred Scripture the Holy Fathers the doctors and liturgies of the church and under the guidance of the church's teaching authority let them rightly explain the offices and privileges of the Blessed Virgin which are always related to Christ the source of all truth sanctity and piety let them painstakingly guard against any word or deed which could lead separated brethren or anyone else into error regarding the true doctrine of the church let the faithful remember moreover that true devotion consists neither in fruitless and passing emotion nor in a certain vain credulity rather it proceeds from true faith by which we are led to know the excellence of the mother of God and are moved to a filial love toward our mother and to the imitation of her virtues so balanced so continuing and this chapter 5 is about Mary a sign of sure hope and of the solace and of solace for God's people in pilgrimage my next highlight here in the bodily and spiritual glory which she possesses in heaven a mother of Jesus continues in this present world as the image and first flowering of the church as she is to be perfected in the world to come likewise Mary shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come as a sign of sure hope and solace for the pilgrim People of God it gives great joy and comfort to this Most Holy Synod that among the separated brother among the separated brethren - there are those who give due due honor to the mother of our Lord and Savior this is especially so among the Easterners who with ardent emotion and devote mind concur in reverencing the mother of God ever virgin let the entire body of the faithful pour forth persevering prayer to the mother of God and mother of men let them implore that she who aided the beginnings of the church by her prayers may now exalted us she is in heaven above all the saints and angels intercede with her son in the fellowship of all the saints may she do so until all the peoples of the human family whether they are honored with the name of Christian or whether they still do not know their Savior are happily gathered together in peace and harmony into the one people of God or the glory of the most holy and undivided Trinity how can you not be moved by this how can you not be inspired by this how can you not be set on fire your Christian faith your Catholic faith my words such as these I don't understand how anyone can critique Second Vatican Council not anyone that's read it prayerfully and lovingly in docile submission you can't be an enemy of an ecumenical council because it's God Almighty who pretty who protects who guarantees the infallible truths that are taught therein and it's not just doctrine per se it's not just definitions of dogma explicit definitions of dogma that are protected by God in the church it's not we owe all of the teachings of the sacred council the assent of mind and will if you are not ready to give a cent of mind and will you are removing yourself whether you know it or not you're removing yourself from the bosom of the church so moving on let's go back and see what context we are in here I think what I'm it's a footnote from the paragraph I the Constitution here takes up the very delicate point of the relationship of the Catholic Church as it presently exists governed by the Roman pontiff and the bishops in communion with him to the Church of Christ according to the Constitution the Church of Christ survives in the world today in its institutional fullness in the Catholic Church okay so what we're looking at here is the footnote 23 that subsists in Martian Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church so this is from a couple of episodes ago so going back to that footnote now I'll reread it knowing that it comes from that subsists in portion of this document so we're in the footnote the Constitution here takes up the very delicate point of the relationship of the Catholic Church as it print as it presently exists to the Church of Christ according to the Constitution the Church of Christ survives in the world today in its institutional fullness in the Catholic Church although elements of the church are present in other churches and ecclesial communities a point which will be more fully developed in the decree on Okuma nism is ecclesial elements in other churches far from shattering the unity of the mystical body our dynamic realities which tend to bring about an ever greater measure of unity among all who believe in Christ and are baptized in him so a couple of clothes maybe two or three episodes I talked about this subsists in controversy with the set of accantus and whatnot there are saving elements outside of the church but those saving elements are designed to bring the second footnote it is called Sancta Romana ecclesia the holy catholic apostolic church in the Tritton teen profession of faith as cited in the preceding footnote and in vatican one session three of the diplomatic constitution defeat a holy moving on the comparison between the church and Christ is a reminder that the church like it's masters should not seek to be served but to serve but of course there is no complete parallelism unlike Christ the church is not a divine person in its concrete historical existence it is capable of being tarnished by sin in its concrete historical existence yes the theme of the church's continuous need for purification is no innovation but is found in various ancient liturgical prayers such as the collects for the first Sunday of Lent and the 15th Sunday after Pentecost the decree of the comunism building on this idea of inner renewal and reform in the church shows its great ecumenical importance especially for facilitating better so I just want to turn everything I've read the idea that the sense of the faithful the sensus fidelium imprinted on their hearts by the holy spirit cannot err was a favorite theme of Cardinal Newman who is now Saint Cardinal Newman he's been canonized recently Arnel newman who foresaw its importance for the theology of the lady which was in its infancy in his day if the fact that the faithful as a whole bear witness to the gospel does not makes reproof superfluous the teaching of the hierarchy then it falls to Shepherd the whole flock by clear authoritative doctrine so we're not confusing or mixing up the hierarchy with lady we're just saying that there is a certain type of holiness a certain type of infallibility that we participate we a lady to guard against a common misunderstanding the Constitution makes clear that charisms should not necessarily be identified with extraordinary inspect spectacular phenomena which are by their very nature the water here um excuse me the whole question of charisms is well treated by Karl Rahner in his book the dynamic element in the church now we have to have some degree of caution when we read the footnotes if we're being told to read Karl Rahner we need to have some level of caution slightly controversial character there are several characters bouncing around in my mind get little red flags or orange flags when I hear their names I believe Karl Rahner is one of them I would need to google him to find out just how controversial he is but a little bell going off there we need to exercise some prudence when reading the footnotes here and when being told to read Karl Rahner but he may have some very Catholic Orthodox teachings among his works even if there are other passages in his works that are straying from tradition or from the Magisterium so just be on your guard in the footnotes thirdly the people of God is considered in its relationship to Christ as king in this regard it is a fellowship of life reflecting the universal lordship of Christ the church spontaneously tends to spread everywhere thereby bringing men of every nation into intimate spiritual union with one another since the church's unity is vital and organic it does not impose rigid uniformity that's over against the radrats the set of contests in women but rather thrives note that I highlighted to indicate the importance of union with the church the council first really reiterates the traditional Catholic teaching on a necessity of the church for salvation this necessity is a double one arising both from the positive precept of Christ that men should enter the church and from the efficacy of the church's means of grace especially her proclamation of the faith and her administration of the sacrament of baptism for imparting and sustaining an authentically Christian life that the count the next footnote the council here makes it clear mm-hmm the council here makes it clear that only Catholic Christians are fully incorporated into the church but for full incorporation it is not sufficient to be externally a Catholic one most one must also be animated by the Spirit of Christ where charity is absent a bond of Union essentially to salvation essential to the next footnote san agustin baptism entre Donatists it is certainly clear that when we speak of within and without with regard to the church our consideration must be directed to what is in the heart not what is in the body I often talk about this this idea that this quotation by San Agustin will be surprised who was in the church who is out without because if we judge by appearances then we just see everyone that's ostensibly a member of the church is in everyone that's ostensibly not a member of the visible Church is oh that's not the case we have to look at the heart only God knows the heart moving on to the next footnote this paragraph gives a concise summary of the ways in which those Christians who do not have full visible union with the Catholic Church may nevertheless be linked to the church by salutary bonds the decree on accumulation treats this point more fully especially in article 3 which details of various elements of the church that can subsist outside of the visible boundaries of Catholicism by treating the relationship of the other Christians to the Catholic Church under the heading of the people of God rather than that of the mystical body the Constitution is able to avoid various subtle and controverted questions concerning degrees of membership which have been much discussed since the time of miss D G corporis so I have sometimes hinted at the fact that the document somatic can to of a certain amount of ambiguity built into them because of the vast number of bishops and human tendency to have a left-leaning or right Lading politic and here's an example of a compromise phrasing we just avoid committing by avoiding the word the mystical body because that would refer to many implications and it would imply a commitment one way or the other and the council fathers were not ready to make that commitment the council fathers don't know everything they don't teach everything in one ecumenical council they are dealing with their current situation usually the terraces but in this case it's a pastoral council they're dealing with the current situation where they currently know what they're currently inspired to teach and when I say inspired I just mean in the generic broad sense of the word I don't mean that the Holy Spirit inspires the bishops or the clergy that or even the Pope teach anything but the the they are inspired as every Christian is inspired by the Holy Spirit in many ways but it's not the inspiration in the narrow technical sense the way that scripture is inspired Holy Spirit wanted them to write what they wrote and he used their instrumentality while maintaining their free will that's not what I'm talking about when I talk about the holy others of the council being inspired they're just inspired in the way that you were and I are inspired if you read a nice passage in the Bible you get inspired that's it that general sense I want to make that very clear but they avoided the issue by phrasing things in a slightly ambiguous way and there's no there's nothing wrong with that there's a limitation on how much the council fathers can address how much they can teach in one council so they limit themselves and they use a certain amount of ambiguity in the documents when necessary because to say otherwise what to say would be to say that the the the the Cardinals at the council knew everything and we're ready to teach us everything that's absurd moving on now gonna mark my mark my words as they say but everything is well ordered to the extent that it can be on a live broadcast moving on to another footnote the council is careful to add that men unacquainted with the biblical revelation and even those who have not arrived at the explicit faith in God made by the grace of Christ attained salvation if they sincerely follow the lights but gives them in a footnote the council makes reference to the important 1949 letter of the Holy Office to Archbishop now Cardinal Cushing of Boston which lucidly explained how according to Catholic doctrine it can be possible Fernan for non Catholics to attain salvation through the grace of yeah so I think that goes without saying to say otherwise is completely absurd right and I am a triumphalist I think that the Catholic Church has triumphed on the cross of Christ it triumphed the Catholic Church went I am a triumphalist I do believe there's absolutely no possibility of salvation outside of the holy roman catholic church that's what vatican to achieve teaches but Vatican 2 also teaches that it's a there are means of getting into the church outside of the church and as San Agustin said we can't judge by appearances we have to judge by the heart everyone that's saved is saved by Christ everyone that's saved ultimately is Catholic we may not get to witness it it's intimate it's in the heart might be on the deathbed it might be in the final moments as I said the last episode or the episode before and frankly it's none of our business but when you see a good Jew a good Hindu a good Muslim a good good atheist don't judge their heart just think that there are means of salvation outside of the church and they have these means at their disposal if they follow the lights that God has given them they are able to come into the church eventually it doesn't need to be a public thing just want to say hello to a converse contender nice to see you he gave me a little wave wavy hand there and the 10 commandments thanks for that I think that's the 10 commandments tablets you gave me there thanks for watching thanks for listening and we come on your on your channel hit me up send me an email moving on now let me color this as red I think we're still in the footnotes here - the difficulty sometimes raised what if the Pope were to define something to which the rest of the Episcopal college or the faithful did not agree the Constitution replies that the case is a purely imaginary one since one in the same Holy Spirit directs the Pope the College of Bishops and the whole body of the faithful in practice the Pope always consults the other bishops and the faithful before making a doctrinal decision but the validity of his action is not legally depend upon any kind of ratification by them so as always a very moderate sane reasonable rational answer of course this answer is given by an editor in the footnotes but this is basically the teaching of the church is that the Pope doesn't need the approval of the church to define but the choke the Pope does consult with his fellow bishops and even with the lady in the in the case of the Assumption of Mary in 1950 Pope Pius the 12th sought the opinion of a lady and of the bishops in a very unilateral way Pope Pius the 12th said hey what what's going on I hear a lot of clamoring for a Dogma on Mary's assumption and you put your feelers out for me what did the lady saying what are their devotions what is their popular piety doing what's going on and then he responds and he defines X catheter the Assumption of Mary so that's an example of where the Pope doesn't need the church the crew who is teaching but he does lean on the church puts his ear to the ground what's going on and he can he can be moved by the feedback that he gets from his bishops and from the another footnote here Saint Polycarp reference Christ said to have become the Deek Christ is said to have become the and I'm not sure why I highlighted that but interesting Christ is the deacon of all another footnote this article on the participation of a lady in the royal office of Christ shows a marked advance beyond anything contained in previous official documents of the church note that the lady discharged this function not only by contributing to the moral improvement of mankind but also by assisting the advance of culture and civilization so being baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit we are priest prophet and King lady and that kingly function that royal function manifests were told in the duck news American too not only in the way that we help the moral improvement of mankind but also by assisting the advance of culture and civilization it's a it's a royal duty and obligation that we have as Christians moving on another footnote a special chapters devoted to holiness or sanctity which essentially consists in separation from sin and union with God and which may be called the very cool to church both in this pretty straightforward moving on another footnote the Christian in faith should esteem the passive purification which can result from a patient acceptance of hardship and suffering to free us from the legalistic view of holiness which would overemphasize external good works and conformity to law Constitution reminds us that the true measure of holiness is a sincere and efficacious love of God and neighbor these are all points that I emphasize time and time again and my artists according to a venerable theological tradition that church this is another footnote by the way the church exists in three conditions the pilgrim the pilgrim church on earth the suffering Church in purgatory and the triumphant Church in heaven in faith the Christian should recognize his solidarity with those who as a candidate of Roman Mass expresses it have gone before us with the sign of faith and sleep asleep in the sleep of so there are three conditions I like that word conditions I have to remember to use that word conditions there are three conditions of the church there aren't three parts to the church or three zones or three territories there are three conditions but it's easy to fall back on a sort of materialistic view of places here on earth here below we talked about being here below I talked about the holy souls in purgatory I don't know if traditionally purgatory is seen as under our feet I think it might be seen as being under our feet not as deep as hell obviously but purgatory traditionally has been seen as under our feet I do believe correct me if I'm wrong moving on another footnote the manner in which God continues to give signs of his power and grace to the example of the saints in every generation makes it possible to say that without prejudice to the fullness of Revelation which has been given once and for all in Christ God continues to reveal himself and to speak to men through the church boom if you don't know that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and God the Father are speaking to you through the church through the writings of the church through these 16 beautiful documents of the Second Vatican Council for example and through other official teachings of the church if you don't know that God is speaking to you through the instrumentality of the church in these documents and in different ways of expressing teaching office the Magisterial office of the church if you don't know that then you need to read the documents of Attica too you need to educate yourself just a little bit better on what the church is and what it is to be a member of the mystical body of Christ what it is to be a Christian what it is to be a Catholic the fullness of Christianity moving on with another footnote the council of nicaea ii and florence are ecumenically important because they express points of agreement between the Greeks and the Latin Church is regarding the invocation of the Saints the veneration of sacred images and suffrages for the souls in purgatory the Council of Trent treated these questions once more in the context of the Protestant Reformation so again very nothing new here but reinforcing always another footnote here the entire text represents a skilful and prudent compromise between two tendencies in modern Catholic theology one of which would emphasize Mary's unique connection with Christ with the Redeemer the other her close connection with the church and all the redeemed that footnote obviously get referring back to the paragraphs on marrying another footnote the counsel comes very close here to calling Mary Mother of the church in this title while not bestowed by the council itself was actually conferred by Paul the sixth in his closing advocate elocution he's closing allocation at the end of the third session interesting so that's it for today I mean I may come back and do another one system snowed in today but that's it for this episode we'll talk to you soon thanks for being here god bless for as little as $1 Vermont you can support the charitable mission of CVS which has already enrolled hundreds of guests and patrons and their immediate families in the Scalabrine League of the millinery fathers of st. 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