hi I'm Steve pokorny and you're listening to Catholic versus Catholic tell the listeners if you would just a little bit about yourself who you are what you believe and how you came to believe it sure I am Steve Pokorny I am been married for nine years with two beautiful daughters on earth and one in heaven I believe that every single person on the planet is a child of God that we are created and redeemed made for greatness called living freedom to pursue the deepest desires of his heart and that the greatest purpose of our life is to become a saint can you talk about your childhood how you were raised what exposure you had to religion and that sort of thing that's an interesting point my um my life was greatly shaped by the fact that my father tried to commit suicide when I was five years old and it was my mom who actually pulled him out of the garage after he tried to kill himself through carbon monoxide poisoning so growing up with that lens I grew up hating myself not believing that I was good and I remembered journaling when I was seven that I wish that I should just kill myself you know like father like like son and I was raised Catholic but like many Catholics there's no living breathing relationship with Jesus Christ it's not every Catholic but there's a lot of them that's the accusation that's flowing around certain that was true for me we wouldn't we go to Mass and we pray before meals but it wasn't something that was something that I panted for something I longed for something that I would give and give my eyeteeth or my very life for do you recall a first early encounter with someone that was on fire for the faith maybe a priest may be a religious known maybe a teacher maybe a relative can you just talk about some of the inspiration that you saw in a living example of the faith on fire I would say as my grandfather my grandfather became a pseudo father to me in helping helping me to see kind of what life is all about I saw with living him his his desire to want to serve others he had been a basica warden of a prison for for some years or or caretaker shall we say he also was military men so had served in World War two that had greatly impacted his own his own life they involved heavily in the VFW but also just seeing the way in which he loved and served my grandmother and they were married for 58 years when he would pass away but inside and outside a I mean I prayer was integrated in there I distinctly remember being at their home and she would be on the exercise bike and he he'd be praying the rosary so saying that I don't know if I ever enjoined him and praying the rosary on that but that was that was a clarion call there and I think it was his faith he was he didn't shy away from shining the faith but it was more of a lived experience even through his body really being involved in the community and wanting to bring about the values that mm that we we proclaim so I think that witness went when deep in me and feeling feeling the comfort a comfort of God were so many times we're growing up feeling very much alone he helped to be kind of a souls on that I want you to touch if you would I know it's very delicate but if you could talk about the dark years personally what you went through in terms of straying from God maybe you went into atheism or maybe you rebelled or had some hatred or anger against God at some point in your adolescence or early 20s it's typical it may not be the case for you but can you talk about your dark years sure absolutely so a big part of this you know growing up without a father doesn't great deal of negative affect on a boy's psyche and I know very clearly we're living in a that's kind of a fatherless generation so many people are growing up without this or they they haven't received a healthy male formation they were supposed to both men and women and this affects us profoundly and so I grew up my father would pass away actually to cancer when I was in when I was 17 I was brain and lung cancer and I recall going into there into the hospice going to the room and saying with all by myself and saying you know guy who left us you abandoned mom you weren't there I was angry I had a lot a ton of anger here and that would impact me back the way in which I would kind of relate here but but I did I was able to get to a point in expressing this to to my dad so much of his life his eyes had kind of glazed over I didn't really understand it when saying those kind of adorable in speech but he made a very clear statement he said I know that was his way of saying I'm sorry and and so this is the first time I was able to really start forgiving my father and there's kind of kind of bookends who to talk about because it was in seventh grade I got exposed to pornography before the internet came out but video pornography was when that happened but seeing women doing things that I know that or there's an attraction here right because I had never had a lived experience of seeing the body appropriate okay and when so when pornography is exposed to me it was exciting it was something new but on the other hand there was also this guilt and shame that was building up in me I knew something was wrong there didn't wasn't sure what to articulate it or how to articulate it were true than truthfully now it's the way in which the body was being presented and so seeing men and women certain actions and having no context really because this wasn't discussed in our home I I took the bait hook line and sinker and this pretty much became a way in which of defining my life and so pretty quickly became became hooked on us and I wasn't sure was they do in in the high school even into college this quickly became a compulsion and I definitively remember you know I was my I knew somewhere along the line lust was a sin so I remember actually in seventh or eighth grade going to going to confession and I confessed that I had as I don't put a confessed I had adultery or something like that or I had no idea what pornography was no idea what masturbation was how to articulate that at that point and so I got I think I said at fornicated I think that's what I said so not having there was no religious education on that point I mean catechesis was very poor I was never really articulated with my mom so this kind of became my my world here but I knew they must was a problem so my typical week was you know pornography masturbate feel guilty go to confession feel free for a little bit but there's so many drugs in pornography news that I was just drawn back into it so this ugliness what was was definitely over mine over my heart and my mind I thought this is my cross that we'll have to carry this to rest my life so this government shame was so deep on me and when we abused our emotions long enough our emotions kind of shut off I think definitively remember somewhere on college years about two years my emotions shut off i expense the numbness which kept me from having real empathy with others which locked me in a actually kind of a self hatred mode and I'm the sun's shining I'm feeling nothing it's a good day feeling nothing and it's a very very hard place because when that gets in a think it's a the positive side God loves it as a kind of a protective mental to protect us so I was kind of entry like god I think it allows us to happen because if we feel the full weight of that guilt and shame it's too devastating it's emotionally devastating so here I think God protected me from that so that no when I was able to actually cope right as I was living from a place of coping instead of a place of thriving and because my emotions were so disintegrated that ability to really enter into relationship with others was very challenging I'm an extrovert so I you know from the outside the whole dr. Jekyll mr. Hyde the outside I'm a great guy Steve pokorny is amazing guys he knows how to speak it's saying can app dance very talented but inside of me kind of like what I can imagine like with a Chris Farley or you know other people who are in the community room who are have this drugs going on inside of the background right they use use humor to deflect what's really going on and that's kind of what I use and use humor as a protective mental instead of letting other people here so a lot of my relationships could be described as very surface and not letting people get close not letting people get near to me and it's based on that fear that if you really know who I really am then you won't like me if you really saw this and and a lot of that came from the notion no I'm going to church I started actually my my mom would actually pass away when I was in junior to cancer as well so when I was 16 and that was around that time that I started first praying but a lot of it was kind of I'm kind of just doing this it wasn't letting him in and letting him do what he wants to do and revealing allowing him to reveal reveal my goodness and reveal my sonship there and so I was I would live that for for many many years your story is a common one it's just not commonly shared openly I wish that more men I don't know about women but I wish more men would let the light shine on this deep deep wound that we many of us have I mean I certainly do my story in your story aren't that different my mother attempted suicide many times she's still alive but she still wants to die two of my aunts on her side have successfully killed themselves there's a lot of darkness there's a lot of ancestral pain there's a lot of guilt there's a lot of shame in not only in my family but in all in all kinds of families I mean this is we're in a fallen world right the power of repentance is under so underrated in our society I wonder what can we do to open the beautiful world the spacious and airy and breezy world of the confessional to people that have been staying away for decades and to non Catholics that have no idea that this world of forgiveness and repentance breathes fresh life into you how can we bring positive attention on to the sacraments of the Catholic Church where should we be laboring now to bring people to forgiveness and repentance that is a multi-faceted question right so let's try to unpack it again I didn't even express this I is the founder of freedom coaching freedom - coaching net I work with clients constantly especially devoted focused on the issue of choreography attraction compulsion break them up so this issue cuts near and dear in the heart here because if you build on what I talked about in my own life not really buying mercy not really accepting the unlovable not accepting that I am I am the son who is worthy to be in the kingdom that I'm called to that I simply need to drop my pride and let go of of what I think is gonna satisfy and go to what will actually satisfy so you don't know that you need mercy unless you know there's a problem so I think on one hand we do need a little more of the heavy handed to Catholics I'm speaking directly to Catholics here that there are sins that they're real that these needs to be preached more right not as to not to beat us up but as a calling right when Jesus says you've heard it said you should not commit adultery but I say to you if you even look with lust at that maxim magazine you've already committed adultery in your heart I have enough trouble not committing adultery I understand I can even look at her without lust ah screw it I'm becoming a pagan they give this up right but his his notion of bringing that up was not seeing them but call to call us here but how are we supposed to feel called if we don't know that the way we're living our life isn't the right way I mean if the statistics they're out that like when it's a severely high number of Catholics are contracepting the most common confessed sin in the confessional is pornography you have various things in which even using social media where we are we're not treating people as human beings but how many homilies do we actually hear preach on these these issues like I think I've heard the issue of pornography preached from the pulpit me four or five times in my entire life and I'm 38 years old so we know something's wrong we feel this guilt and shame we don't know what to do about and so what we do we've normalized that everybody's miserable that's just the way in the world and let's just numb the pain through you know sex food rock-and-roll entertainment video game whatever but it's not actually solving the problem what's the problem is that we're called to a radical love or call to receive this and there are things in life that inhibit this objective and if Catholics don't know that there's objective problems here and how are we supposed to come to the banquet if we only think that all we have to drink is should we use the analogy the septic tank if we think that's normal that's all there is and nobody ever proposes the other side that there's actually fresh water they can satisfy the deepest desire of my heart and then drinking the second tank is going to kill me emotionally psychologically sometimes physically then I'm not going to tell the difference so within this right well first of all most has to be the objective there's something wrong here these are things that are wrong in the world but then right after that is saying I'm not sure to condemn you I'm here to call you to receive mercy and we as Catholics the normal ordinary way in which we do this is return the sacrament confession we're all we have to do is be honest speak honestly and we'll hear the most beautiful words all and i absolve you in the name of the Father Son and the Holy Spirit those sins are gone there's healing there's genuine real forgiveness so any of us who have the continual habit of going to confession and I once and it was once a month or something like that in couple weeks we know there's an objective difference if we are not being unscrupulous or really allowing God to come in there so not only the first answer for the Catholic culture and we and then we can go from receiving mercy we can give mercy to the world and in the secular world there's a notion I think social media is a perfect example David about how there's this emotional vomiting everywhere right and this anger and bitterness is just it's epidemic I mean you just bring up the issues of politics right now oh my lord do we need mercy so from this is we can only give what we don't have we first have to recognize I need mercy those things that are broken I go to heal I go to healing so I can heal us this is the way in which after the fall God is designed this and especially giving us his church so that we can enter into this pattern of mercy and forgiveness and to call others to their greatness because if you take the notion of our culture is simply to talk about things rather than to resolve them and to heal them so we need to especially take an examination if we're gonna be the ones to bring this mercy to the world we got to get our own houses in order and many of us as Catholics we want to hold a grudge we gotta let that go and first and foremost will you let go of the wounds that you are walking will you let go of the things that are continued to impale you will you let you pull out that stake from your heart so he can heal you otherwise we're just work word or The Walking Dead and we're we're bringing forth death instead we're called it and for the culture of life and loss there's this notion of guilt and blame and what my experience is when I confront people with my Catholic perspective on sexual sin in particular because that seems to be a very touchy issue today with the prominence and acceptability of homosexuality and now transgender and all sorts of things not to mention adultery which is commonplace and fornication which is very commonplace and expected and you're in a shameful position if you're not fornicating as a young person if you're a virgin according to the world's definition it's not a virgin according to Jesus Christ's definition these people are not virgins by any stretch of the imagination they just haven't had genital penetration but they're not virgins you know but there's this idea of when I try to speak to people about my Catholic perspective on sexual morality I'm shut down immediately and I'm given a whole list of crimes that the church has committed against Aboriginal peoples against children and the list goes on and on and on and on there's sort of a reaction which is to blame the church to blame priests to blame religious and to point the finger at all kinds of evils that are objectively evil and horrendous and regrettable within the church so I wonder what your experience is with this tendency to play the blame game is there a psychological connection there that prevents people from looking at the doctrines of the church which are very clear and simple and easy to understand difficult to apply but easy to understand and logical and consistent and coherent they look at that and they don't see truth what they see is maybe something that just aggravates them or annoys them and they respond by blaming can have you experienced this and what do you think the psychological mechanism is behind that and well I mean I wanna make it very clear not a psychologist no coach but with the way in which we define it freedom - coaching net is guilt is I've done a bad thing shame is I'm a bad person and we all know that experience if we are honest and I think what we have to use it's firm John Paul X uses the ology is called a master of suspicion and the master suspicion is this notion in a nutshell I'm a bad person so you must be one too I have these broken experiences and so we project this brokenness unto others and there's that build up on me the old phrase mystery likes company this is the cycle goes around around around the only way out of this cycle is forgiveness is mercy and it's calling upon the need first to be forgiven right and a lot of us we again because the latter world or postmodern world what everybody is there is no sin right the only sin maybe is harming the environment or being quote-unquote judgmental then there and there is no objective morality it's just basically what I believe it is or what is of pop culture then we never really can be healed from this all we can hope for is coping mechanisms is crutch or to numb the pain whereas we as Christians should be living from every day or should we say hashtag day zero to live this every day this perspective of things are always new that Redemption is always always present to us even their most brokenness that freedom is real that we can be set free from guilt and shame but but the problem is in many cases we as Catholics we as Christians we are the anti sign we're supposed to be a living vibrant witness of this joy and hope but many times especially because there's a huge failure coming from the top of proclaiming the full beautiful vision of man and woman that truth about sexuality the truth about love we've never heard the story and and this is where I like to say right we're not oversexed were way under sexed we've never learned what sex means in the first place you've never learned what God's glorious plan is and this is starting with starting with a hierarchy of the church then starting what this is not proclaimed in May and and seeing that like the fall out what's happening with like cardova purity this is where those who are supposed to defend us these Shepherds have not and there is a righteous anger that's coming out here because what is gonna cut Austin is making a the bigger you are the heart of your fall right that's the phrase and so Catholicism proclaims me to have the answer white we have Jesus Christ who gave us the church but when they see that we're not living it you're just hypocrites and you look around here that nobody's proclaiming this truth nobody's speaking for what is supposed to be the way we live out our body in sexuality and then it's further exemplified by those who would harm children who would do things I can understand where they're coming from with that said it does not deny the message though the message is still true because the ache and pain that we all feel is not being resolved by secular means we must we must redouble our efforts to proclaim mercy we got to redouble efforts to get our own houses in order so that others can can see clearly aha that's what I was looking for that's what's gonna satisfy my quench for love I want it I want to go get it I know that you are an example and you've touched briefly on your own story but to see another human being go through that maybe you have seen the transformations and you could just give one brief example that would inspire me and inspire the listeners please sure I am privileged to do I like to say that and I get to see transformation all the time because I get these I get very broken broken people community both men and women Catholics and non-catholics through a very Catholic lens is which which we redirect this work and some of these come in with so much so much fear some machine and guilt there they're actually terrified and reaching out to me because they think oh my gosh if anybody knew I would die that's know cuz that's the neat roof that's the nature of of when we misuse our sexuality that is its crippling but it's only exposing a lie to the light that they're gonna be healing here so just one example at some client who came in and was I lived many many years in the very lustful lifestyle actually his desire if you know anything about how the brain is structured and how things work out with that you know the dopamine receptors right to just one chemical brain jakka buttons that you know gives us great high this is especially influence of sexual arousal a lot of the crack cokie and so when we try to flood that these endogenous chemicals are flood our brain but what happens is the more and more we do that on the same same experience it becomes not as interesting to us so it actually shrinks the receptors and so in order to get that high or even a higher high we have to seek out more new tantalizing images new 10,000 experiences - attempting it to that high but in the meantime what it's doing its spraying our emotions because we were never meant to be living merely on a brain or it never meant to me living our sexuality out in that way this is the world we live and so this client of mine and even gotten to the point of going out on the street in the middle the night going to homeless people and exposing himself to them and many of us were like whoa but when when we travel down this path of I need more and more and more and something more and more exciting what seems so abnormal and so disgusting becomes countless this becomes the next I obviously I need to get a hit and this is uncontrollable within me I don't do this I'm gonna die that's the feeling but because it's not real love it never satisfies so through this process like being able to recover a sense of intimacy sense of identity to know that I am loved and then was soaked in that entering to receiving the mercy forgiveness of Christ and allowing that to shape the right of me miss client I saw them I a video was sent to me of him jumping out of a perfectly good airplane and the joy that was coming from there and he related to me that his mom took a look from this because he had gone to a very very dark place about six miles prior to this and said you look like yourself and some of his friends commented yeah you were whirling back to being annoying again he is he's able to who's been able to see the body directly being trained that the body is not meant for use or loss was meant as a revelation to the mystery of the person and the ultimate mystery of God and then going into real-life situations seeing people that know there's nothing quote-unquote special about them from the outside as our social media would say but seeing there's somebody tremendous here and maybe they've got some broken the screen and I want to enter into their world now I want to know how I could love and serve them and so even just further conversations here seeing how that widening of the heart as deep in his empathy and is allowed the sanctification really to take place here and what what's here even though life's not perfect right because nobody is perfect there's always issues at my disposal right now that needs to be replaced so I got things I knew so here they're still enjoy in a calm and peace and that's a that's a beautiful difference so you know if we're how we can tell if it's something that right if we don't have an interior calm and peace then that should be a clarion call to ask okay what's going on here what do I need to do to get me the reference I I want your perspective please on the nature of sexual sin because I've read different things by different Saints st. Augustine was famous for saying that sexual sins aren't the biggest sins but they're among the most frequent sins and I think it was st. Catherine of Siena or st. Teresa of Avila who said that she saw souls falling like snowflakes into hell because of sexual sin and that most people are in hell because of sexual sin what is your perspective on the reality of sexual sin in terms of its place in the damnation of those who do end up in hell so here's what I would say obviously hell was real it is a in existence it does exist and the quote you recording for the amount of seeing snow is descending the hell like the snowflake that was actually already near that and so and obviously that was nearly the three children that was an intial operation I had been blessed to go to Fatima and either deep or Lady Fatima is a big place in my heart and I needed my spirituality I'm saying so that is a reality there and within this I mean let's like let's look at this right it's not the most seriously okay mismos common most most serious would be big that one a proc and also especially the most unforgivable seeing as the sin against the Holy Spirit where we refused mercy I refuse to accept the mercy I am so bad I am so wretched God cannot do anything with me and God cannot do anything with us if we do not let him do something with us but he is the Hound of heaven II will continuously try to get to us even up to our last dying breath he's constantly trying to get us general relationship but he will always just because he's a bridegroom he is a gentleman he will always guide us back into his heart there's something called the law of the gift we will find happiness and fulfillment in joy true the degree that we live our life as a gift well our sexuality are being created male or female instance our bodies a man's body does not make sometimes own a woman's body does not make sense on its own but only in light of each other that it makes them full like we're called to reveal ultimately the love of the Trinity and our sexuality points to making a genuine sincere gift here and it's not simply a marriage but that's where it's supposed to be most profoundly witnessed but in all of our interactions that when I see a woman I don't see her as somebody to use or something to do that but I see this as a person a dog a lot of daughter that most high then hold the serve she is supposed to see me is the son of God son of the Most High and I'm called here to enter into a relationship here obviously appropriately so whatever that type of relationship is whether it's for a reason is he isn't or lifetime so it's very easy to have that twisted because of computers right a desire to want to be selfish and happens especially on the on the physical level we must remember though that computer sense doesn't have the last word that we have the ability through grace to overcome computers not our own power but we're being told in so many different areas you know if this was that whole notion I see Souls descending this hell light snowflakes it happened in 1917 if we're talking literally in time and maybe she wasn't talking about way but maybe then we should shudder at this because pornographers in their faces you know all the issues you mentioned well it seems that's activity and sleeping outside of marriage right those are commonplace this is acceptable behavior in fact we've normalized it and those who don't do this are the weirdos and so it's very easy and once that passions get up and going right and we haven't been programmed to live it as a gift instead about self pursuit bring in the brain chemicals there it is like a drug and it's very difficult to say no it's very difficult to turn the ship on and it's like building up a bank account of selfishness and if we're you know if I'm for six months we know they open a bank account of selfishness on six months plus one day we're supposed to be selfless and sacrificial it's gonna be very difficult it is so there needs to be a return to virtue and virtue meaning and I'm going up those habits that are objectively good but we've never meant what is objectively good and what we're supposed to be to go for it to me that much more difficult even if guilt and Sheen screaming at us from within all throughout the Bible if we start with Genesis and we end with revelation we see the theme of marriage we see the theme of intimacy it's a theme that I cherish in the Bible it's a theme that I cherish in reality I don't think it's just a nice story in a dusty old book I think it is reality I don't think I'm over emphasizing it but maybe from your perspective you can sort of talk a little bit about the Old Testament just because I want to place emphasis on the beginning I want to place emphasis on Genesis can you talk from your perspective about sexuality family intimacy marriage and the shame that they felt when they fell from grace sure so you're bringing back to my studies the jumbled sentence - in Washington DC so obviously from the beginning Adam and Eve were created as gift they're created there's male and female to pray naked without Sheen they make a definitive choice a choice against God we're not sure exactly what that is there's actually lots of different theories on what that was because the writer Genesis was writing symbolically that fruit in many cases is sexual sin of some nature so upset I've read it's contraception they've said no to life others and bestiality okay kind of kind of shy and they defended those propositions whatever it was they failed a little their bodies and such a lot okay it felt in everything everything everywhere in there and it was this desire to cover themselves we have to remember the problem is not the body the problem is not sexuality the problem is not nakedness the problems lust so lust invaded here they were invaded like a country being invaded and this invasion is still living at home in many ibaka and many of us we haven't we haven't had that exorcism of this and we and then it becomes commonplace it's like in the American Revolution right and you had one major claims for revolution with soldiers and so we have this computable matrix right this desire to launch me selfish so so many of the laws in the Old Testament that were set up especially surrounding sexuality were designed for marriage and family designed to protect that because this is a group of people the Israelites that it shows in people and they had a fight for the resistance well the foundation of civilization is family founded on marriage and because they lived in experiencing most of us we have houses and/or domiciles we're not fighting off invaders all the time right we're pretty well-established yeah I mean the Israelites especially went to the desert and once they got in the promised land stow the fighting off to protect their nation and they also knew protecting from exterior and interior forces interior meeting things within them the selfishness that could destroy say it's been said an enemy outside the camp you can be watchful on and be an inside the camp makes you dead and so the the power of sexuality is literally power to hit life and life brought forth new people right that's what it was supposed to be that sexual I was supposed to point them and and they were commanded by God to take over the entire world that was the commandment of God go forth and multiply from the first commandment Genesis 1:28 to the blessing that was given to Abram and Abraham right and so this was this was what life was to me and so marriage and by extension family marriage was to be protective and that's where these these laws are codified to defend it so you'll see in the Book of Leviticus like all these different laws and tons of them are about the right ordering in a home the right ordering of family the right order of marriage so like if you sleep with something outside of marriage right you could be stoned or if both of you are not married then by that action you've made the promise to marry her in some cases right so here that whole definitive - to defend them and what's the point the point is as Moses was Moses gave of though of divorce and Jesus is confronted by the Pharisees who asked this question who asked the question you know Moses gave give us permission to divorce our wives what do you say and Jesus responds is because of the hardness of your heart that Moses permitted divorce but from the beginning it was not so so if we if we take that the big message take from the Old Testament is those laws were good in a certain sentence some of them even being man-made because they were coping mechanisms but coping mechanisms don't change hurt what we need is a transformation of our heart mind mission to see to see our first ourselves as good as lovable even in our brokenness you're called to greatness and then to protect that message and every person you meet especially if we're married just to not view our spouse as against us but they're with us like I always tell couples whenever I have the opportunity that you're not fighting against each other you're fighting with each other you're on the same team and this again brings us right back to our conversation on mercy we need to unleash mercy in our marriages and families and wherever we find a lack of forgiveness in our own hearts then we need to repent of it we got to receive that mercy so didn't get that worse I want your perspective on this recent phenomenon which is sort of a reaction to feminism which is the men's movements which are sprouting up in the Catholic Church they're sprouting up in atheist circles they're sprouting up everywhere these men's movements men's rights and so on and so forth there's a spectrum as there is in feminism there's a spectrum from innocuous to really radically insane and everything in between I just want your perspective on that and if you could use a little bit of a historical overview to put it into perspective have there always been feminists have there always been men's rights movements or is this really unique and new to our time that's interesting I don't ask that question so let's let's give this go I would think because we have a radical dis orientation of the body we're very clueless about what it means me man what it means to be a woman and you have had you know and and some of the stuff that's come out and the term feminism is a very loaded chart because in a certain sense we should all be feminists we all should be defending the dignity and Worth and value of all women but you've had the history of humanity as born this idea coming from the fall man is gonna blame women it's gonna take advantage or and women in some element some of their weakness is gonna allow herself to be used and vice versa right we use each other and we know that this is beneath our dignity our worth and so from the I mean in 1960s speak this out the whole crunk of sexual revolution I called a sexual de evolution because it's not evolving us more into human humanists of less than and so a lot of women very angry and ticked off revolt against a false patriarchy patriarchy with has to agree with hierarchy which is a sacred order but we've in many cases have failed to do this and so these women are revolting against the false patriarchy of men not being men not stepping up using women right and so you have this then then the overcompensation is that men are all men are garbage all men are dogs and it shouldn't be involved in anything right so you've you've gone too far the other extreme cuz there are good men so the danger here we base these men's movement again I'm all for men's move out for women's movement genuine women's movements starting with a study on Lully era starting to talk to more let her go we've invited John Paul the great starting there understand your DD there if men are not locked in on who Jesus Christ is are not locked even with a relationship of a father we're going to simply repeat the errors of the world because we have first and foremost are not proof that's not who we are we're not providers for some homes we're not a paycheck or bring home the bacon we are beloved sons that's where our identity starts and that for our identity it's not starting there and we're not living from that place then I think we're gonna see a lace men's movements get off and it's gonna become more like boys clubs and then you're gonna feed more into the notion to hold me to movement of the Harvey Weinstein where does Harvey Weinstein get off of that well because he is protected it was a whole whole environment that this was normalized so again it all comes back to our true identity as beloved sons and daughter of God the Most High as revealed through Jesus Christ we start there and if that foundation is present and we continue to build organically from that then I think those can be very healthy so just as a sort of message of hope in general terms what might you be able to say to someone that might be out there listening now sure as I put in my my Instagram profile very recently and it's redeemed underscore vision if anybody wants to follow for a freedom coaching to quote st. John Paul the great we are not these total of our mistakes and failings where the sum total of our father's love for us we are loved immeasurably and the aches and pains of this world are a clarion call that were made for more that something's out written words and Christ has come to redeem us and as a practical note we're stuck in this very dark place guilt and shame pull out a sheet of paper and write down a hundred things into a single form first in place think of it okay keep it very simple and practice that for 30 days there's no way your life if you will focus on gratitude having this become your mindset there's no way you can't see beauty goodness the world but again you need to come to know them that you are loved and it's open that love and then live from that gratitude in doing this your world will change forever if you like it will do if you think it's got some questions at the end I'll tell all you've got to do is all you got to do is do is