Catholic vs. Catholic - 2019-04-17 - Robert Haddad

Author Recorded Wednesday April 17th, 2019

There are 45 episodes in the Versus:Catholic series.

Recorded September 13th, 2017

Catholic vs. Catholic - 2017-09-13 - Thomas

Robert Haddad has studied law, theology, philosophy and religious education. He has authored ten books including 1001 Reasons Why It’s Great to be Catholic! Robert is currently the Head of New Evangelization for the Sydney Catholic Schools Office. I enjoyed our chat. • Support the CVS Podcast: • Be a guest on a livestream:

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hello my name is Robert had at the initiative Catholic versus Catholic tell the listeners a little bit about yourself if you would please who you are what you believe and how you came to believe what you believe sure what I do at the moment I work in Catholic education in the a Diocese of Sydney I have a position called head of New Evangelization which involves faith formation of staff we have a benign problems of analysis of schools 152 primary and secondary schools I was I don't have primary disability for youth ministry and what we call family educators that is people who work with parents and work with students and who work with staff overall and now in this linear and irrelevant farming enjoy it it's a wonderful job previous to that I was director of the conservative Christian doctrine in the Archdiocese of Sydney and I looked after and responsibilities for 3,500 categories that went into a public school system I know that might be a surprise to Americans but in Sydney Utley knew each other now state we still had access to public schools once a week prior to that I was director of University chaplain seed the archdiocese had set up various personnel working on the secular campus of the University of Sydney University of New South Wales University of Technology and Macquarie University it's very fruitful apostille and prior to that I worked for 15 years at the Catholic school teaching with education coordinator and assistant principal it's in Charles College here in South Sydney on some wonderful times it's where I began my work in Catholic education evangelization exception prior to that I worked in law I'm a little graduate and I did a few odd jobs in law but that was for the first eight years of my professional career as a hobby I engage in captain apologetics I've written 10 books and my youtube channel a website etc I try to do what the good American apologists do down here in Australia and I have a partnership the parousia media which also partners with a lot of my patients in the United States such as Catholic Answers etc I love my work I thank God I have this type of work I don't really consider it work I think it's working for the church working for God trying to bring people to the full knowledge and understanding of Catholic faith and to come to relationship with God and Jesus Christ through the church Jesus found that which is a cup of church nice you know you don't lean left and right you just have like you're not a rad treasurer or anything like that well look I actually avoid political rivals I think that can be used in a in a way that brings about the original criticism of particular people I'm fully aware of the politics within the church and that right modern and progressive right-wing conservative traditional exception I want to do what's right I want to be Catholic I call myself a Catholic can that I call myself why or except it's Maronite Catholic my background is Marin I I would go to the old nuts on occasions I'm not someone who's a red thread I want someone who's just a conservative I support whatever is good whether I say it like some Thomas Aquinas whoever he saw truth employed that in his argumentation in his writings now I have the side I'm sorry much truth to the left of the spectrum because I'm pursuing what is Catholic truth I don't have any eyes against the old mess and I mother rat trap so yeah are you as Nikoli Lebanese originally I was born in Australia I'm 55 years of age now I'm born in Sydney Australia my parents migrated Australia that and on folding on my mother not 50 yeah I was born and bred in Sydney which is why most people think I'm just a native it's reading I'm very proud to be in struggling I'm very proud to have a Maronite background I like to notice it to the best of both within myself you know I'm heading up tomorrow night mass in an hour and a half and I also attend a local Roman Rite parishes whether it would Orthodox priests you're not preaching and teaching well I mean and same a liturgy according to the mind of the church nice I attended my first-ever Maronite mass just a couple of weeks ago it was beautiful that's not what she did Montreal Quebec Canada all right here Canada not the site okay so on a completely random topic I heard some of your talks and you do talk about foodie is that AFL or is that soccer or what are you talking about Oh Australia particularly it will vary I mean clearly this Agreement comes so no Melbourne no but very one on opening I was reading rules football that's where we United fun and that's the hot line live in Sydney well firstly its rugby league which is small sort but it's very very popular on the HD console hysteria Queensland and New South Wales of course we also have high protein slice in Sydney we have like the Union we have what we call soccer my wife's on general about wanting to be obsessed fight I support Liverpool FC in English Premier League I support Boston Red Sox in and Major League Baseball I don't know who to support in NBA but you know I like them as pastimes I don't want to get obsessed by them because it's not healthy spiritually did you hear the Pope's recent interview he said that Leonel Messi is not God well that's good to hear just two days ago he scored a couple of goals against Manchester United but for me as a Liverpool supporter that's something that's very good yeah one more cultural question and then I'll move on to serious topics but what is that dessert eat that's a big fluffy kind of marshmallow thing yeah that would be lava it's a culturally australian invention and really it's wonderful it is my wife makes very good pavlova well it's originally like Pavlov is a Russian name so I must have been someone who came to Australia from Eastern Europe or something or and strandings have just developed it now that's very good speaking of Australian things what about Cardinal Pell I have a sneaking suspicion that he's innocent you have any opinion or what the deal with you can have more than a suspicion if you really look at all the facts and I've read a lot on this and I have no call personally because he me at University chaplain she'd say she being in the current job of God so I owe him a lot so I have to declare that I might have a bias towards you but we look at the facts and from a legal perspective there's no way shape or form that he could have been convicted beyond reasonable doubt well I go further than that I actually said that the allegation against him are impossible they could not have occurred I think there's a conspiracy involved it just simply to destroy a conservative Cardinal and his notorious for being conservative for over the last 30 years and he's made a lot of enemies in Australia both in the secular realm and in the church particularly in his home state of Victoria and Melbourne when he was a bishop for five years in the late 90s up and put two guards on the one before he came to Sydney I think it's complete concoction his appeal will be heard on the fifth and sixth of June coming up and I would be completely shocked and staggered and lose all confidence in our judiciary if he's found still to be guilty now recently last year we have another Archbishop Philip Wilson from Adelaide he was convicted and then on appeal was exonerated I expect the same for Cardinal Pell yeah I read a book that sort of put together many many many examples of false accusations people convicted that were innocent not to downplay the actual reality of sick perverts that are predators within the hierarchy in the church but of course and I sure be rooted out and condemned without mercy but the reality is is that it when Pell was appointed to his position in Rome and he was uncovering hidden to secret bank accounts containing over 300 million euros adversely sneaking suspicion that there were people involved with corruption with respect to the Vatican Bank and finances who wanted them out of the job it's something that you need to know is that the Victorian police actually advert publicly for anyone had information regarding sexual abuse committed around some Patrick's Cathedral in Melbourne I didn't name Pope specifically but this was the first time in Australian police history but police would actually seek to find evidence or to create evidence to create a case they didn't receive any complaints against Powell actually solicited the public for anyone who'd come forward to say anything against him which is outrageous you don't get that happen anywhere in the Westminster system or Western legal or judicial systems where you get police who have received no complaints actively looking for evidence to destroy someone that's not me sounding off on some conspiracy theory that is public record yeah speaking of conspiracy theories and wacky weirdness do you have any opinions about a theistic evolution versus creationism look I believe in the evolutionary process I don't think it's ever been proven that we can get extra information added to the genome of any creature through the process of positive mutations I think even Richard Dawkins on the record of admitting that I don't believe in the evolutionary process I believe in punctuated equilibrium I believe that new life forms appeared in the world through the direct intervention of God I don't have a problem and I do actually teach publicly that it's okay to believe in the universe it's fourteen point eight billion years of age I don't think that is the essential issue what is the essential issue is whether there is a God his Almighty who created everything by his own infinite power seen and unseen visible and invisible by his word out of nothing X Nikola we must believe in that we must believe God the first source of everything that exists and then debates about the age of the earth for me come in second place I'm willing to listen to all the arguments of pros and cons about the age of evil the age of the solar system the age of the universe the origin of life I think I don't go to war against college you believe in younger creationism I just think they want me here what their scientific evidence is for them I don't believe in the evolution of why people live species where one higher life-form can emerge from a lower life-form I don't believe that Adam and Eve emerged from pre-human hominids I believe in a personal singular couple called Adam and Eve I believe that all human beings are derived from that original trouble I believe in original sin I believe that that impacted on humanity delicacy in many way I believe that since Adam and Eve repast said plants on a wounded human nature to us and that we need good engine food through Jesus Christ as the new Adam I believe Adam and Eve a spiritual being to directly immediately created by God according to what we read in Genesis now maybe my position is a little bit here and there because there's some things I just don't know I can't reconcile for example I don't lose sleep about it necessarily yeah neither do I I'm not gonna always ask you about controversial things but there is one thing I heard in one of your talks about apparitions you were pretty open I thought about the fact that you think that magic Oriya is demonic do you want to confirm that or you'd rather shy away from the topic yeah it's pretty it's pretty hard pretty hard one decide to sail it with this moderate my language I don't believe it's from God I've never believed in magic Oriya I don't believe the Virgin Mary has appeared every day since mid 1981 to those people who claim to see her I don't actually believe in thee that in all the messages that they are consistent with Catholic teaching I think we've had a commission that is actually of 25 theologians Archbishop's bishops exception we've actually finalized your importance incident on Pope Francis is this for a couple of years I've been probably wife Pope Francis has enacted on it is because he's probably searching for some soft landing satis fee for all the good people are many good people many faithful Calvin would heave musically to major glory and I got glue Croatian friends who will battle for and for all very fine Catholics and I don't want to have a go into conflict with from over the issue but I mean at private operations are not part of public revelation we're not obliged to believe them I mean I believe in the ones that approve I believe in the feminism the Lord's and the Guadalupe I'd and through the box and I believe in all those ones it will prove this one had never been approved in any level by the original radical bishops zanuck and Pericles lot bishops conference in the early nineties or anyone else so I don't need to follow it now if it's not from God aside from maynard's from the devil 'no sign evidence to indicate some diabolical influence you don't remember any more of the particular details at the moment but I'll leave it at that my formal position publicly that is not from God yeah well disobedience is the key I think to assessing it and there was that doctrinal blunder where Mary the gospel allegedly said that she is not the dispenser of all graces now speaking of Mary ology do you think that we're going to get what they call the fifth dogma of Mary is that something you look forward to what in the ethical negate that in the immediate present or future I think them carmine said in the Vatican would be against more dogmatic definitions that could be academically insensitive I will support any dogmatic definition but it needs to be supported by good catechesis and good apologetics so that non-catholic Christians can get to see what the Catholic Church really means by it or with all dogmatic definitions in the past relating to Mary the Immaculate Conception the Assumption which are fully not only set but I'm a defender of and a personal defender of all the Marian dogmas we need to make sure that we get them true meaning across to non Catholics and that's been our difficulty in the last couple of centuries as to plenty of non Catholic while against them at the conception and assumption on the basis of misconceptions or distortions and we need to make sure we get a fifth definition of marriage and mediatrix of all graces whose identity forthcoming in immediate term but if we ever get such a dogma we need to be prepared to defend it and give a reason explanation as to what that means visibly for example Jesus Christ is the one mediator of salvation the right hand of the father who doesn't contradict what it's impulsive and one thing would be three five or four or five and we have to understand what it means and we could be the baby with the work of the Holy Spirit in the church and each presence immediately among in Christian people and the second and the sacraments and the graces we received through the sacraments we have to have to be able to put it in put that dogma in the theological puzzle where it sits in relation to all the other teachings so that we have a clear analogy of life that it's not something that sits there as a dog member people can't connect it with other teachings of the church hmm as I said earlier I'm neither left nor right I just consider myself Catholic but I do embrace what looks to be like a very left-leaning church today this sort of progressive Pope we have and what not I do like the Pope I do love the Pope and I submit to him in all things that are not sin but I do have an image in my mind of the church as mother and the mother is just and protective but she's also loving and she gives a lot of freedom to her children and I see the arms of the church being opened up during this sort of if you want to characterize it as a progressive or a left-leaning phase I see that that God will bring good out of that by attracting people that otherwise might not come in if it were in a more conservative phase so I see the arms of Mother Church opening and closing and opening and closing and sort of gathering in as many as possible and I always think about Joseph who is thrown into that pit and then went on to be the savior of the other brothers and how he said to them don't worry you meant it for ill but God used it for the good and I think about that with some left-leaning Pope's that even if they have ill-will which I don't believe they do even if they did have ill will I think God is using all of salvation history in a way that is marvelous can you just comment on that it's very difficult area to comment on as someone who sees myself as firmly Catholic I do worry about some of the things I'm hearing in the scene at the moment sometimes I look at a certain websites which I realized can be rather pessimistic and I caution myself about what I'm reading so I don't get too depressed but I am concerned with some aspects of Francis pontificates I've recently read his exhortation on youth Christmas V bird crisis alive and many wonderful things and many beautiful things in a very inspirational there are some aspects of what he said that are open-ended and could be problematic my main concern is that Pope Francis has bigger support base our own national churches that are really entitled decay Germany the Netherlands Seoul Djem Austria and they want to inflict upon the whole church their way of thinking and acting our good conservative churches like in Poland and Africa are denigrated I'm afraid that you know radical ruptures or leanings to the left would not necessarily be healthy for the church but the National Church it'll die see if it had gone left all in radical decline where you see healthy churches that are strong or maintaining the line it could be labeled as conservative but I don't like that way they are just good with Catholic teaching and Google Catholic pastoral care and consistent with that you know Pope Benedict emeritus has recently brought out a document giving his take on the root causes of the sexual abuse crisis in the church and you get certain sections of the church chiefly again in Germany who hold them up to ridicule there's my main concern here the Beast forces these powers within the church seeing the being the ascendant today and I want to export there Modelling cherish about universal church but where their model is now operated it's actually unsuccessful utterly ruthless so what I do when it comes apart Francis I mean my friends is the Pope I painted is a legitimate pal I went abroad to our attention certain things we need to focus on from the pastoral care perspective and his right to do that and where Pope Francis has said wonderful and great things I'm all in support of that just some reservations like I think my love relative reservations are healthy I think they're loyal I think they're certainly loyal Catholic teaching in practice and I want to just be very cautious about the more left the side who are trying to advocate for the church to bless and or same-sex marriage or have no problem with people collaborating but before marriage or no problem with second or third marriages that's where my big gripe is that's where these people will drag the church again to drag the church to positions are completely in rupture with Scripture with apostolic tradition with Magisterial teachings I will no enniaa and and the results of what they will try to do will be disastrous and we see it we see these churches led by these people or and I can main countries if you like we saw the church in Belgium that's an almost evaporated and these people don't believe anymore in evangelization in conversion in seeking converts in having good numbers of children etc you don't hear these people speaking about against contraception or abortion they're not interested in that they talk about seamless garment now okay seamless garment is is fine on paper but you can talk about single salmon you want to be concerned about life in every instance those will preborn those who are after born then fine that's great but I don't hear these people talk about the plight of the unborn and abortion issues except from how many people are actually actively preaching and teaching the church's teaching against the use of artificial contraception for example these teachings need to be upheld because they uphold the family and without the family the church would be in a deleterious decline and that's why I want to be at that type of Catholic who is in staunch leaf supporting church teaching in defense of the family because that's the first line of defense when it comes to defending the church mm-hmm can you just touch really briefly on Judaism and Islam and how they fit into God's plan for Humanity well first I'll just rewrite what it says in the Catechism that in the end God judges everyone according to their conscience according to the the truth they knew and the graces they received and there of course their elements and different degrees of elements of truth in Judaism and Islam and we do have commonalities but we do have very distinct and powerful differences we can't ignore that we can't pretend that there are three ways of salvation here's one way of salvation for all of humanity and that's Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life well I meant to come ordinarily or meant to come to the Father through him that goes for Jews and Muslims God is not racist he doesn't have different covenants for different races there's one covenant in you an eternal covenant that was put in place of the last summer that's relevant and applicable and is open to everyone on the planet now with respect to people and other faced monotheistic faiths or otherwise they come before Jesus Christ and Isha Mandy in that particular judgment and Christ in his love and mercy will judge everyone according to their conscience how about faithful to the truth they were aware of even though our in error through no fault of their own and invincible ignorance is recall painful to the graces that they receive and if they were sincere and faithful to the graces that God did give them and he gives everyone sufficient grace to decide and they can be saved for that salvation is through Jesus cause it's not through any other individual exertion or belief system so that's that's putting it in a nutshell I I do find it problematic to believe that there is there's a separate government for the Jews like there is no separate covenant for the Jews as distinct from the Christians the Jews are invited into the same one an eternal covenant the new and eternal covenant that Jesus Christ established at the last summer when he said this is the blood of the new covenant said for you and for many for the remission of sins that includes all the Jewish people's now there are brothers in in the sense that we believe in the one true God the God of Abraham his land claims to live in the same God and Abraham and they hold Jesus as a great prophet and take the Islamic view of Jesus of Nazareth is greater than the Jewish view of Jesus of Nazareth and that's quite obvious but I still believe in dialogue with our brothers and sisters and the Jewish and Islamic traditions and those monotheistic faiths I still believe in open dialogue with them to proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of the entire world and to propose that to them in friendship and charity because that's our obligation that obligation that's our baptismal obligation to define the gospel to all nations in the end the natural children of God in the end God will judge everybody in the end God desires s how they shown that they come to the knowledge of truth and walk the way of salvation but it searches as an instrument of Christ in the world still proclaim Jesus Christ to Jews and Muslims I work in our CIA with my parish which is a man I parish and I've been doing that for nearly 10 years and every we have two or three people of the Muslim faith seeking to be received baptizing the Sheep into Catholicism and I believe in God and I've never been involved in any conversion process of someone from the Jewish faith or I do now Jews who converted to performance of Judaism as you aptly put it I still believe in that work I think it's outrageous for anyone to not see to welcome someone who wants to be baptized and into the Catholic Church this is what I call false ecumenism there are legitimate forms of the cumulus and an ecumenical cooperation with people of other Christian denominations and people of other religions I think that's absolutely necessary in that social context that I am a world but it's a false ecumenism to tell someone who wants to enter the Catholic Church is now nature because we are according to the Second Vatican Council the Catholic Church is the church Christ founded and has performance not only of truth but of the means of salvation so we are not enthusiastic about bringing people to the fullness of truth and the means of salvation but we're not really caring for those people and their ultimate salvation I sort of an idea I have and I have developed an idea of three steps into a Catholic Church the first step if you're an atheist is you discover that there's a first cause that's the god of classical theism or monotheism the second step is through looking at history where you ask the question who is Jesus Christ and the Jews Christmas and the Muslims all have different stories about who Jesus Christ is and I think it's very obvious that he is the promised Jewish Messiah and then the third and final step into the Catholic Church is by once we've established that there is a God and that he incarnated as Jesus Christ we need to look at the question of authority where did we get the Canon of Scripture where do we settle questions about dogma and doctrine so this is a very simplified overview of three steps into the Catholic Church but there is no alternative there is no good argument I've never ever encountered any good arguments against any of those three steps a lot and you're absolutely right you're for practical power fire of natural Christian and Catholic apologetics but the problem you're up against their arm up again so that we live in postmodernist times where young people in particular don't think logically anymore they don't believe there is true and even if they did exist true they don't believe it's discoverable now we create our own truth our own personal narratives rather than the meta-narrative of judeo-christianity that gives an explanation for things in the universe that's what we're up against or up against young generations now I'm not even that I'm not at not only they do not possess truth I haven't been given truth but they told there is no truth and they don't have a logical process in the way they think and then when they encounter arguments their main response when I encounter these arguments that you mentioned and some of them will respond well that's true for you but not for me and yet logic has a power you said I fear not everyone stays and when I get comments on my youtube channel about that particular videos and I mainly get non Catholic I get Protestant evangelical Baptist Pentecostal people who put comments on various videos there's a lot of lack of logic and they don't have this sequential pattern that you mentioned of you know believing first in God believing in the god of the Christians believing in Jesus Christ leaving in the church and Jesus found that they don't think that way there's a lot of a lot of Engl prejudice that they would see early on in their lives and unfortunately we've contributed to building that prejudice for our own scandal that aren't seen and then when you want to try and say you know what the reason god these are the arguments for God and which is the true God well it's a Christian God for these reasons and there's why Jesus Christ is true God and true man and that's way the truth and the life and we look historically we look at scripture and Jesus founded Church which is that church in this Oracle perspective all of the Catholic Church you can and you should put forward that hiking and get someone join this packet you you but what about all the pedophiles candles how can the Catholic Church be the true church how can we be one Holy Catholic if how could it be holy when you got all these pedophiles operating these are the type of pushback again that's that type of argument is a motive it's based on fact but it's not logical to but and argument historical arguments or scriptural arguments about the foundation of carriages with I can ones relating to scandal today but people don't think what useful it is for sure sin to scandalize but it is also a sin don't forget to be scandalized to allow yourself to be scandalized by those who commit the sin of scandalizing right that's true but unfortunately some people are just so poorly formed it going through no fault of their own it could be easily scandalized to not father their own I mean you know if I wasn't Catholic if I didn't hold what you believe I didn't I wasn't involved in Catholic teaching the last 30 years and apologetics and I looked at the Catholic Church from outside and all I'm hearing in the media if scandal after scandal after scandal little bit pedophilic or homosexual or heterosexual or this priest for that woman or that bishop with that woman or this priesthood that man or one of my special thing about the Catholic Church whether I see its holiness I can't say it's holding us in the public realm in society through the media I'm hearing and changes scandal so I can be scandalized you know follow my own because I don't have immediate access to capital T G a beauty of the Catholic Church the Saints that you mentioned the doctor the Fathers of the Church many people don't have those things on their shelves just to pull off and read and how many young Catholics and a school who still don't know themselves that never received it yeah so just very quickly a name for me if you would please three of your favorite Saints and don't include Mary because she's everyone's top favorite that's true well I don't have I can answer that but I do you know when it comes to certain signs that really stand out for me innocent Dominic is be some captain whose standards be some teresa of avila his be to the nation's like all there is big I mean they're the ones I've drawn from in my own role as a teacher as a proclaimer as an evangelist in spirituality there are many more probably should mention dozens more you know have had some influence on me it's my favorite spiritual writings imitation of Christ soul of the Apostle look it to that influenced me very heavily over the decade who knows all new muslin Dom Shore table did you get the book and read it ok I mean I should have mentioned in Shaba Makhlouf was very big in my life how could I forget him as a mariner I'm reading his homily for the land Oh st. Sharbel mmm yeah ok the greatest miracle book of the last century without a death have you heard about st. brother Andre here in Montreal no Andre % I'll send you a link he was a very lowly humble uneducated doorman and he had a vision to build a church for st. Joseph's oh yeah my favorite Saints just so you know st. Augustine st. Anselm I've always loved John the Baptist of course I love st. Paul I love in more recent times Alphonsus Liguori the Kure of ours st. John Vianney Francis DeSales yeah of course and I love the Francis the salt it's impossible to answer question my three favorite sites with any real Jocelyn yeah not three but thirty times three maybe mmm so I do ask my guests to end off my shows with a little positive message of hope so just to end the show what do you think you might be able to say to the anonymous listener who's out there listening now whoever you whatever is Jewish people to Jesus one-on-one as a friend what I'm working with staff adults educators sometimes I've said them if you take nothing from what I'm saying today just take this of Jesus Christ as your friend your best friend your personal friend that you can talk to you at anytime anywhere no matter what your situational or where you are at the moment then everything else would follow follow Jesus is your friend heaven is your best