Ott's Fundamentals (Ep.06) - 1.2.9 to 1.2.18

Author Streamed Saturday October 16th, 2021

There are 18 episodes in the Live:Fundamentals series.

Streamed September 23rd, 2021

Ott's Fundamentals (Ep.02) - 1.1.1 to 1.1.7

Streamed September 19th, 2021

Ott's Fundamentals (Ep.01) - Introduction

From:Book 1, Part 2, Item 9to:Book 1, Part 2, Item 18of:Fundamentals of Catholic Dogmaby:Dr. Ludwig Ott


Ott's Fundamentals (Ep.06) - 1.2.9 to 1.2.18

Author Streamed September 12th, 2021

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so i'm gonna pick right up where i left off last time we read book one part two up to item eight now we're gonna do book one part two item nine and following last time we covered the trinity in scripture and now we're just finishing up this chapter with the tradition section 9 the testimony of tradition for the trinity of god one testimonies from the liturgy of the a the ancient christian baptismal liturgy contains a clear confession of the belief in the trinity according to the testimony of the decay baptism was already administered in ancient christian times quote in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit end quote through the triple dipping or triple pouring of water compare saint justin apologia 161 saint irenaeus against all heresies tertullian origen saint ciprian the b the apostles creed which in its older form is identical with the ancient roman symbol used in baptism is built up on the trinitarian formula of baptism the rules of faith handed down by the church authors of the second and third centuries are an extension and paraphrase of the trinitarian symbol of baptism see irenaeus tertullian origen novak novation and that references are there if you want to look those up the whole doctrine of the trinity is extraordinarily in the private statement of faith directed against paul of samosata by saint gregory saint gregory thou matt turgos who died about see the belief in the trinity is also expressed by the ancient christian doxologies last time i think it was last time or the time before we saw that greek word voxo which meant glory giving glory to god see the belief in the trinity is also expressed by the ancient christian doxologies christian antiquity knows two forms the coordinating form glory be to the father and to the son and to the holy ghost and the subordinating form glory be to the father through the son in the holy ghost as the latter was misinterpreted by the aryans in a heretical subordination sense saint basil altered it as follows glory be to the father with the son together with the holy ghost then here we have the greek and you can compare with the martyrium is that the martyrium of saint polycarp or i'm not sure i guess that might be the martyrium of st polycarp you can look two the anti-nicine fathers saint clement of rome writes about 96 80 to the community of corinth quote have we not one god and one christ and one spirit of grace end he designates god and the lord jesus christ and the holy ghost as the belief and the hope of the elect saint ignatius of antioch who died about 107 not only teaches the deity of christ in the midst in the most definite fashion but also and here we have a citation from a work abbreviated magn it was a mag something so restart this phrase saint ignatius of antioch not only teaches the date of christ in the most definite fashion but also employs trinitarian formulas quote be subject to the bishop and to one another as jesus christ to the father according to the flesh and the apostles to christ reference is given there the apologists sought with the aid of philosophy and the concept of the logos to win a scientific understanding of the mystery of the trinity but did not always keep themselves free from subordination expressions saint justin teaches that christians adore that the christians adore jesus christ the son of the true god in the second place after the creator of the universe athan agoras about 177 replies to the reproach of atheism quote who should not wonder when one when he hears those called atheists who acknowledge god the father and god the son and the holy ghost and teach their power in unity as well as their distinction in order more exact expositions of the church belief in the trinity are to be found in saint irenaeus references are given there and especially in tertullian the last mention teaches against sibelianism the father and the son and the spirit are distinct he says but holds just as but holds just as decisively to the unity of the substance the one god is one in substance one and status one origen already uses the expression omo in this reference here his book about against his book talking about the hebrews i guess as the designation of the tri-personal nature of god is first used by theophilus of antioch the corresponding latin expression trinitas is first used by tertullian in pre-nicene times the roman church most clearly expressed belief in the tri-personality and consubstantiality of god in the famous dogmatic doctrinal composition of pope dionysius who reigned from 259 to 268 addressed to bishop dionysius of alexandria in which the pope rejects tritheism sibelianism and subordinationism the decision of the niacin council was no novelty but an organic development of the primitive trinitarian doctrine which was in the deposit of faith of the church from the very beginning and the implications of which were gradually developed and made clear by scientific number three the post nicene fathers the post-19 fathers especially had the task of scientifically establishing and defending against arianism and semi-arianism the consubstantiality of the son with the father and against macedonianism the identity of essence of the holy ghost with that of the father and the son those who were especially notable in this connection were saint athanasius the great who died in 373 and the three outstanding cappadocians say basil the great who died in 379 saint gregory nazianzus who died about 390 and who's called the theologian and saint gregory of nisa who died in 394 saint cyril of alexandria who died in 444 and among the latin fathers saint hillary of poitiers who died in 37 367 quote the athanasius of the west unquote and saint ambrose of milan who died in 397. primitive christian doctrine on the trinity reaches its apex in the outstanding work of saint augustine who died in 4 30. day trinitate that's his work on the trinity i've yet to read that in its entirety but i do have it on my kindle i've read chapter 3 the triple personality of god section 10 the internal divine processions in general one concept and reality in god there are two eternal divine processions in god there are two internal divine processions by procession is understood the origin of one from another one distinguishes external procession processio add extra or processio pair transients and internal procession inwards processio ad intra or processio pair immanance a procession is said to be external when the terminus of the procession goes outside the principle from which it proceeds thus creatures proceed by external procession from god their primary origin but the processions of the sun and the holy ghost are an imminent act of the most holy trinity an internal divine procession signifies the origin of a divine person from another through the communication of the the creeds teach us that there are two internal divine processions the beginning of the sun and the procession of the holy ghost by reason of these processions there are in god three hypostases or persons really distinct from one another the expression quote procession and quote or quote issue unquote comes from holy writ procession and issue uh we have a parenthesis here uh the greek ek porefess so these expressions procession and issue come from holy writ john 8 42 says quote from god i proceed end quote john 15 26 says quote the spirit of truth who proceedeth from the father end according to the context however both passages are to be referred not to the eternal processions of the sun and the holy ghost but to their temporal mission missions into this world these missions however are the reflected two the subject of the internal divine processions and here we have a dogma the divine persons not the divine nature are the subject of the internal divine processions in parenthesis in the active and in the passive sense so this is a de fide dogma the divine the divine persons not the divine nature are the subject of the internal divine the fourth lateran council 1215 espoused the teaching of peter the lombard against the attacks of the abbot the divine substance does not generate nor is it generated nor does it proceed it is the father who generates the son who is generated and the holy ghost who proceeds that's the end of that citation holy writ always refers to the producing and the being produced to a person rationally the doctrine derives from the axiom end quote actions are to be predicated of supposita you can compare that reference to the summa theologica of saint thomas aquinas moving on now section 11 the procession of the son from the father by way of here we have a dog where the second divine person proceeds from the first divine person by generation and therefore is related to him as son to a father this is a defeated dogma the second divine person proceeds from the first divine person by generation and it and therefore is related to him the athanasian creed confesses the son is from the father alone not made not created but generated according to the testimony of holy writ the first and second persons stand to each other in the relationship of a true and proper fatherhood and sonship the characteristic biblical name for the first person is the name father that of the second person the name son the father is more closely designated as own father pater evios the son as quote own son like my own son yos means only and yanis is uh generated yanis must be more like it must mean beloved and as quote true son end quote verus filius in latin thus the son is distinguished from the adopted children of god a true and proper affiliation is however based on a true generation only the eternal generation of the son from the father is directly expressed in psalm 2 7 and hebrews 1 5. quote thou art my son this day i have begotten the end quote compare psalm 109 3 according to the vulgate and then the latin is given there but in english it is rendered before the day star i the fathers and the councils of excuse me the fathers and the councils of the fourth century established the consubstantiality of the son with the father from the moving on section 12 the procession of the holy ghost from the father and the son by way of the procession of the third person is with reference to its biblical proper name called spiration nevsis in greek or spiratio in latin number one the teaching of the church and here we have a dogma the holy ghost proceeds from the father and from the son as from a single principle through a single spiration the holy ghost proceeds from the father and from the sun from a single principle through a single since the 9th century the greek orthodox church has taught that the holy ghost proceeds from the father alone a synod at constantinople in the year 879 under the patriarch photius rejected the feliloquy so-called quote feliloque unquote of the latins as heretical in contrast to this the second general council of leo in 1274 declared the holy ghost eternally proceeds from father and son as from one principle and by one spiration the creed of the senate of toledo in the year 447 the athanasian creed the creed of the elephants the eleventh council of toledo the kaput inferior meter infer meter of the fourth lateran council and the decretum pro greckies as well as the decretum pro jacobites in the niceno constantinople cree the edition et philio was first added by the third synod of toledo in the year a the holy ghost according to the teaching of holy writ is not merely the spirit of the father compare matthew 10 20 quote it is the spirit of the father that speaketh in you end quote and references are given if you want to compare john 15 26 first corinthians 2 and then we have galatians 4 6 quote god sent the spirit of his son into your hearts end quote the spirit of jesus acts 16 7 says quote and the spirit of jesus suffered them not end quote there's a little errata there you can see i might a note in the margin wasn't apostles 16 7 but acts 16 7 as i said the first time the spirit of christ romans 8 9 says quote now if any man have not the spirit of christ he is none of his end quote the spirit of jesus christ philippians 1 19 says quote through the supply of the spirit of jesus christ end quote if the designation quote spirit of the father unquote expresses an original reference to to the father as the greeks admit then the expression spirit of the sun must anal animal analog and analogously must analogously express an original connection with the and there was a reference to what did i not read i didn't read the greek there i just leave that for you to moving on now b the holy ghost is sent not only from the father see john 14 16 and 26 but also from the son john 15 26 reads quote paraclete whom i will send you from the father end quote this external mission at extra is to a certain extent the continuation of the so we have the eternal procession and then a continuation of that from the mission one can therefore infer the eternal procession the eternal production corresponds to the mission and the eternal being produced the eternal being produced corresponds to the eternal being sent as according to the testimony of holy scripture the holy ghost is sent from the father and from the son it must be inferred that he is produced by the father and by the son see the holy ghost receives his knowledge from the son see john 16 13 and following which says quote what things soever he shall hear he shall speak he shall glorify me because he shall receive of mine and shall show it to you end quote the hearing and receiving of knowledge can be understood of a divine person only in the sense that he receives the divine knowledge and with it the identical divine essence from all eternity from another divine person as the holy ghost receives his knowledge from the son he must proceed from the son as the son who receives his knowledge from the father see john 8 26 and following proceeds from the father saint augustine comments on this passage quote from each he will hear it from whom he proceeds hearing is for him knowing but knowing his being end quote that the holy ghost proceeds from the father and from the son as from one single principle and through one single spiration is clear from john 16 15 quote all that the father has is mine end quote if the son by virtue of his eternal generation from the father possesses everything that the father possesses except the fatherhood and the ungeneratedness which are not communicable then he must also possess the power of spiration and with it the being a principle in three proof from tradition the latin fathers preferred the coordinating formula expatre etfilio in brackets they have filioque the greek the subordinating formula so the latins preferred the coordinating formula and the greek the subordinating formula the subordinating formula which tertullian employs both forms but explains the coordinating formula in the sense of the subordinating one he says quote i do not derive the spirit otherwise than from the father through unquote and quote the third is the spirit proceeding from god the father and from the son as the third from the root through the bud is the fruit end quote saint hillary under greek influence uses the subordinating formula quote from thee meaning the father through him meaning the son is the holy spirit end quote saint ambrose teaches that quote the holy ghost since he proceeds from the father and the son cannot be separated from the father nor from the son end quote saint augustine establishes the procession of the holy ghost from the father and the son by a detailed scriptural proof references are given for all those citations there origen uses the subordination phrase quote the holy ghost is the first of everything by the father through the son end quote and quote the son gives to his hypostasis not only that he is but also that he is wise understanding and just end quote references are given there saint athanasius declares quote the same peculiar relationship in which we know the son to be with the father governs as we shall find also that which is between the spirit and the son and as the son speaks quote all things whatsoever the father hath are mine and quote so we shall find that all this is also through the sun in the spirit and quote i had quotes within quotes there but i didn't know how to do specify that hopefully we can figure that out saint basil teaches that quote the goodness and the sanctity of excuse me the goodness and the sanctity and the kingly dignity characteristic of god the father is transmitted from the father through the only begotten to the spirit and quote the three capped oceans basil gregory and asians gregory of nisa compare the relationship of the three persons to each other with the links of a chain the example is based on the subordinating formula quote from the father through the son end quote saint didis of alexandria saint epis of salamis and saint cyril of alexandria employ even if not exclusively the coordinating formula the filioque compare saint epiphanius which says quote the holy ghost is from the same essence of the father and of the son end quote and another quote from the father and the son the third according to his name end quote and there's some references given there if you want to follow those up saint john of damascus rejects the notion that the holy ghost is from the son nevertheless he teaches that he is the spirit of the son and that he proceeds through the son from the father in saying this he does not deny that the son is a principle of the holy spirit but only that unlike the father he is not the primitive principle the coordinating formula bilioquay and the subordinating formula peripherium concur essentially insofar as they both attest that both the father and the son are the principle of the holy ghost and they also complement each other while in the former the unicity and the individual indivisibility of the principle are above all expressed the latter effectively stresses that the father is the primitive principle compare saint augustine and that the son as quote god from god unquote is the derived principle insofar as he with his essence also receives the number four scholastic proof as the real difference of the divine persons derives exclusively from an opposition of the original relationships there would exist no basis for the hypostatic distinction between the sun and the holy ghost if the holy ghost did not also proceed and you can see the summa moving on now to section two book one section two the spec is it book one section two what is this let's see i was getting lost with these of these sessions speculative explanation of the dogma of the trinity chapter one speculative explanation of the internal divine and here we have the son proceeds from the intellect of the father by way of generation this is a cent certa the son proceeds from the intellect of the father by way of generation one teaching of the church the roman catechism teaches quote of all examples which are induced with a view to an explanation of the nature and manner of this eternal generation that appears most nearly to approach the matter which is taken from the intellectual activity of our soul for which reason still saint john calls the son of god the quote word end quote for just as our spirit knowing itself produces a picture of itself which theologians have called a quote-unquote word so god also insofar as human as a as human can be compared to the divine knowing himself generates the end quote thus the generation of the son from the father is to be conceived purely as an intellectual generation or as an act of intellect generation intellectuals to positive foundation the second person is called the quote word of god end quote in holy writ this name indicates that the son is the word generated by an act of cognition or the product of the knowledge of the father the name wisdom in quotes which is an which is a personal name of the second person and therefore indicates the mode of his origin indicates that the sun is generated through an act of cognition of the father paramotum intellectus the designation quote image of the invisible god and quote see colossians 1 15 or a quote figure of the substance of god and quote see hebrews 1 3 indicates that the generation of the sun occurs through that activity of the father which tends to produce a likeness of himself that is through saint ignatius of antioch applies to christ the designation quote word of god rendered in greek and he says quote disposition of the father end quote and then it's rendered in and quote knowledge of god end quote so that's where we get not gnosticism from with ggn gamma knee interesting justin compares the generation of the sun with the coming of the word from the intellect of athens calls the son of god quote the thought rendered in greek noos and the word rendered in greek logos of the father and quote that's from athanagaris of athens he calls the son of god the thought and the word of the father augustine explains the divine generation as an act of the divine self-knowledge saying quote the father generated by uttering his word who is equal to him in all things end quote that from his work on the city of uh on uh the trinity excuse me number three speculative foundation the trinitarian quote unquote processions are the activities of a spirit i.e knowing or willing in the divine act of cognition every reality is present which is essential to the concept of generation generation is defined according to aristotle as blah blah blah in latin and then rendered in english the origin from a conjoined living principle of a living being with a like nature so generation is defined by aristotle as the origin from a conjoined living principle of a living being with a like nature interesting the likeness which is essential to the concept of generation pertains to the act of knowledge only for by knowledge there is produced an image or similitude of the object known an act of will on the contrary presupposes a certain similarity between its object and the person willing see the sumo for on that god the father by knowing himself produces the perfect image of himself that is the son who is identical in nature with what the object of the divine act of cognition is by which the father generated the son is disputed according to saint thomas it is everything which is contained in the knowledge of the father primarily which is it that which is the object of the necessary divine knowledge that is the divine essence the divine persons possible things and secondarily that which is the object of free divine knowledge that is to say the things of reality which god decided from eternity to fulfill the references are given to saint thomas there moving on section 14 the holy ghost proceeds from the will or from the mutual love of the father and of the son this is a dogma it's a scent certa dogma i'll say it again the holy ghost proceeds from the will or from the the roman catechism teaches that the holy ghost proceeds from the divine will beautiful image the biblical name of the third person holy ghost penevema equals wind breath respiration this biblical name of the third person designates a principle of movement or of activity as the personal name of a divine person the name pneuma indicates that the holy ghost through an activity of the divine will proceeds as the spiritual principle of divine activity again the word the verb pnein pnein again the verb nein spirari in latin expresses the relationship to the will amorem spirare odium spirare spiranz the personal name holy similarly indicates a procession from the will as holiness has its seat in the will scripture and tradition ascribe the works of love to the holy ghost compare romans 5 5 quote the charity of god is poured forth into our hearts by the holy ghost who was given to us end quote the appropriation of the works of love to the holy ghost has its basic basis in the personal character and ultimately in the origin of the holy ghost it is therefore to be inferred that the holy ghost proceeds unquote by an act of love for this reason the fathers call the holy ghost quote love unquote so proceeding by an act of love para modem amoris in latin and then uh love rendered in italian they give amor caritas de lectio those are the renderings in latin of the word love the 11th council of toledo in 675 declared quote spiritu sanctus que proces that the holy ghost proceeds from both that the holy ghost proceeds from both is seen by this that he is known as the the designation love is connected with the designation gift or donation that's the greek and dhonim monus in and we can think of the name like theodore that's where you have theo god and zoron gift gift of god theodore for example so i'll start this phrase again the designation love is connected with the designation gift or donation which the fathers ascribe to the holy ghost following holy writ see for example acts 2 38 which says quote and you shall receive the gift of the holy ghost end quote and acts 8 20 which says quote keep thy money to perish with thee because thou hast thought that the gift of god may be purchased with money end quote saint augustine in the his work on the trinity the reference is given there as a gift is the expression of love so also this personal name of the holy ghost indicates his origin per modem amoris and points to the fact that the holy ghost is the mutual love gift of the the object of the divine will by which the father and the son produce the holy ghost is primarily that which god necessarily wills and loves that is to say the divine essence and the divine persons and secondarily that which he freely wills and loves which is to say created things and according to some theologians also interesting section 15 the holy ghost does not proceed through generation but through spiration this is a de fidei dogma the holy ghost does not proceed through the symbol kim kukui the symbol probably massacring the latin as usual the symbol says of the holy ghost neck genitus said prosedens the holy ghost is therefore not the son of god scripture and tradition speak only of one or the only begotten son of god the logos in tradition generation and affiliation are not applied to the holy ghost comparison athanasius saint augustine references are given there the distinction between generation and spiration may be founded in this that the intellect out of which the sun is generated and the will out of which the holy ghost proceeds are virtually different in god and also in the fact that knowing but not willing produces that likeness to the knower which is essential to the concept of generation in knowing just as in generating the aim is similarity but in willing this like this this likeness is presupposed the holy ghost is indeed just as the son of like substance with the father but he does not possess the identity of substance by reason of his proceeding the spiration of the holy ghost does not therefore conform to the notion of um i'll read that again because it's very interesting the holy ghost the holy ghost is indeed just as the son of like substance with the father but he does not proof but he does not possess the identity of substance by reason of his proceeding the spiration of the holy ghost does not therefore conform to the notion of the distinction between the act of generation and the act of spiration is neither real nor merely logical but a virtual distinction such as exists between the divine knowing and the read that again with the parenthesis included this time the distinction between the active generation and the active spiration is neither real because there is no contrast of relation nor merely logical because the holy ghost is not generated but it is rather a virtual distinction such as exists between the divine when i did episode zero and i read the front matter back matter i had this little diagram at the back making reference to page 68 we are currently on page 67 so we're coming up to this right now there's the one god the two generations three persons four relations we have the intellectual generation with an active and passive and uh an active and passive volitional spiration proceeding from both the father and the moving on chapter two the divine relations and persons section 16 the divine relations one concept of relation by relation is understood the ordination of one thing to another three elements belong to the concept of relation that is to say one the subject to the aim or terminus and three the basis fundamentum of the relationship the essence of the relation lies in being ordained to another a distinction is made between real and mental or logical mutual and unilateral relations between the subject and the terminus of a relationship there exists a relative two four real relations in god the two internal divine processions establishing god two pairs of real mutual relationships accordingly there exists in god there exist in god for real relations a the relationship of the father to the son the active generation or paternity be the relationship of the son to the father the passive generation or c the relation of the father and of the son to the holy ghost the act of spiration and the the relation of the holy ghost to the father and to the son the passive again with my famous okay continuing the teaching of holy writ concerning the divine relations is found in the personal names father son it was scientifically elaborated by the fathers of the fourth and fifth century in the eastern church by the cappadocians basil gregory nazanzis gregory nisa and cereal of alexandria in in the eastern church by the cappadocians and cereal of alexandria and in the western church by saint augustine following followed by fulgentius and boethius gregory nazianzus said quote father is neither a name of the being nor of the activity but a name of the relation which demonstrates the relationship of the father to the son and of the son to the father end quote and the word relation that he used there my schizoid weren't so dry i could say species like schismaticus father is neither a name of the being nor of the activity but a name of the relation which demonstrates the relationship of the father to the son saint augustine teaches quote although father and son are different this is not a difference in the substance but in the relationship end quote the official church teaching embodies this doctrine of the relationships which has been developed by the fathers and theologians compare the creed of the eleventh synod of toledo and the decretum pro jacobites of the council of florence from the dogma of the trinity of god it follows that the mutual relations in god are not merely logical or mental but real relations otherwise the trinity of persons would be reduced to a mere logical trinity the difference of the three divine persons is not founded in the divine essence but in the mutual relation three three really distinct relations in god of the four real internal divine relations three stand in opposition to one another and are therefore really distinct from one another namely the fatherhood the sonship and the passive spiration the active spiration stands in opposition to the passive spiration only but not to the fatherhood and to the sonship consequently is not really distinct from the fatherhood and the sonship i had a little note the father and the son does not become a fourth person by being the subject of active see i have the father and the son linked up together because this spiration the father and the son does not become a fourth person by being the subject of the subject of active spiration so the son is a person because of that passive relation of spiration but the father and the son do not become a person a fourth person because of that active number four and here we have a dogma the relations in god are really identical with the divine nature this is a defeated dogma the relations in god are really identical with the divine nature the synod of reams in 1148 declared against gilbert of poitiers who was accused of teaching that there is a real distinction between the divine persons and the divine relations for example between the father and the fatherhood quote that there are no realities in god whether they be called relations or properties or singularities or unities to each other uh excuse me quote that there are no realities in god whether they be called relations or properties or similarities or unities or other such which exist from eternity and which are not identical with god the council declares what whatsoever is in god is god the union council of florence declares in god everything is one except there be between the divine relations and the divine nature however so between the divine relations and the divine nature no relative opposition otherwise you just end up with an infinity of persons because every everything just has a relation right there's an opposition it just it's never ending you have an infinite regress the intrinsic basis is the absolute simplicity of the divine essence with which real composition of substance between the relations and the divine essence there exists however not merely a purely mental but a virtual distinction insofar as in the relation the ordination to the terminus of the relation is included while in the concept of the essence this ordination you can see the summa for more on that interesting section 17 the divine one the concept hypostasis and person the church in its teaching concerning the dogma of the trinity uses the philosophical concepts essence nature of the fourth ladder later in council 12 15 which says quote the concepts of essence nature and substance characterize the physical essence of god common to the three persons that is the totality of the perfections of the divine essence and hypostasis is an individual complete substance existing entirely in itself an incommunicable substance a person is a hypostasis endowed with reason the classical definition comes from that of boethius a person is the individual substance of a rational nature hypostasis and nature are related to each other in such a manner that the hypostasis is the bearer of nature and the ultimate object of all being and acting while the nature is that through which i hope that's clear i'll have to listen to all this stuff i may have misplaced some emphasis some time but what can you do to the relations and the persons the three mutually opposite relations of fatherhood and sonship and of the passive spiration are the three divine hypostases or persons the fatherhood constitutes the person of the father the sonship constitutes the person of the son the passive spiration constitutes the person of the holy ghost a person is an incommunicable substance the divine relations are substantial since they are really identical with the divine essence but in communicability belongs to the three relations of fatherhood sonship and passive spiration only since the active inspiration is common to the father and to the son consequently only these three relations are persons accordingly each divine person is a subsistent incommunicable a divine person signifies a subsistent i'm just going to read that last paragraph again a person is an incommunicable substance the divine relations are substantial since they are really identical with the divine essence but in communicability belongs to the three relations of fatherhood sonship and passive spiration only since the act of spiration is common to the father and to the son so this is just reiterating what i was saying earlier with my little diagram the father-son don't become another fourth person just because of the active spiration of the holy spirit where three in god all is one except for the opposition of relations this is a defeat a dogma in god all is one except for the opposition of relations from the doctrine of the divine relations their flows the so-called basic trinitarian law which was first on the processions of the holy spirit you can see that work i've never heard of it but i'll look it up one of my favorite saints saint anselm of canterbury so i'll start again from the doctrine of the divine revelations there flows a so-called basic trinitarian law which was first formulated by saint anselm of canterbury and which was solemnly asserted by the council of florence in the decretum project jacobi's in 1441 and it says in english in god all is one where there is not an opposition of relation according to this assertion the real distinction of the person's rest exclusively section 18 the divine personal properties and notions one by proprietas is understood a distinguishing property which belongs to one divine person only and distinguishes it from the other two the proprietates are divided into personal or person forming proper proprietates personales or now rendered in greek idiomata so to the cla to the second class belongs the originlessness as a proprietars of the father the active spiration is a common property of two persons the father and the son and is therefore not a proprietars in a strict sense so this is just re-emphasizing once again there's no fourth person of the the quote unspiratedness unquote of the father and the son they quote ungeneratedness unquote and the quote unfruitfulness unquote of the holy ghost are not reckoned among the properties because the properties express an excellence or a dignity when's also the designation so when they put unspearatedness the fathers generally recognize quote ungeneratedness unquote as a proprietars of god the father only although the meaning of the word expresses the negation of generation and in this sense would apply also to the holy ghost the father's regard it the father is regarded as signifying not only quote not being generated unquote but also having no origin rendered in greek as agnes and quote being the origin of the other two persons unquote st john of damascus says quote the father alone is ungenerated for he has his being not from another two the notions the notions are distinctive characteristics of the divine persons by which they are known factually they coincide with the pro pro actually they coincide with the properties see the zuma reference when he cited here in latin and then it continues with the text the notions of the the notions of the individual person are a inaugurability and active generation as a cognitive mark of the father b passive generation as a mark of cognition of the sun and c passive spiration as a cognition mark of the holy ghost the active spiration is a common characteristic of the father and of the son and is therefore not compatible with the strict concept of the notion distinctive characteristic the notions are internal divine activities which characterize the person and district and distinguish them as contrasted with the essential acts which are common to the three persons in god there are two notional acts notional knowing through which the father generates the son and notional willing love through which the father and the son breathe the holy ghost the notional and the essential acts are factually identical they are only virtually different when speaking of notional act we think of the divine nature from the point of view of its relations when speaking of essential acts we think of the divine nature in an absolute way so some pretty subtle subtle nuances when it comes to speaking of the trinity i've done just over an hour i'm going to leave it there for now we're on section 19 the trinitarian perichoresis or circum in session and i'm really enjoying this stuff about the section 19 i'll continue uh tomorrow probably maybe later today depending on how things go so we did from 9 item 9 all the way up to 18. so i'd like to mark this off 6. that's done and we'll continue either later today or tomorrow thanks for being here take care of yourselves and you

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