Catholic vs. Catholic - 2019-04-20 - Matthew Murdock Part 4

Author Recorded Saturday April 20th, 2019

There are 45 episodes in the Versus:Catholic series.

Recorded September 13th, 2017

Catholic vs. Catholic - 2017-09-13 - Thomas

In this fourth segment we discuss some concerns that have been weighing on Matthew since his recent and somewhat apprehensive re-entry into full communion with Rome. As always, it was a fun and edifying chat.

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Under Construction

These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
Matthieu part four so um Matthew chapter four that's when Jesus is let out into the wilderness by the holy spirit to be tested by the devil and did you know if you go back to Deuteronomy chapter eight God is talking about why he led the Israelites through the desert to be tented I can read it to you if you want if that's something you're interested in there's all of the the quotes that Jesus says what man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God he's quoting because that's when the devil was like oh you're hungry I'll make some food you know and he said any any quotes Deuteronomy chapter eight so there's a very interesting parallel there that unlocks what Matthew for why Jesus is saying that you know he's not just quoting verses pulling him out of thin air just like oh you know I got your devil but he's actually showing something and God says that he led them in the wilderness to test them to see if they would obey Him right they grumbled over food right they said we wish would you bring us out here just to kill us in the starve us to death where's the food where's the water and that's why they kept getting in trouble because they had and like in Psalm 1:14 it says you had a wanton craving in the desert which provoked God to anger you know so in Deuteronomy 8 he says remember that the Lord your God led you on the entire journey these 40 years in the wilderness so that he might humble you and test you to know what was in your heart whether you would keep his commands he humbled you by letting you go hungry then he gave you manna to eat what your fathers had not known so that you might learn that man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord your clothing didn't wear out and your feet did not swell those 40 years keep in mind that the Lord your God has been disciplining you just as a man disciplines his son so keep the commands of the Lord your God by walking in his ways and fearing him right so he said he deprived the Israelites in the desert of food to test them for 40 years just that and so Jesus walked through the the wilderness for 40 days deprived of food God testing him to says the Holy Spirit led him out after he was baptized into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil to be tested so he's like a little microcosm of Israel walking through the wilderness for 40 years but he did it for 40 days yet when he was tempted he passed the test he wouldn't eat food and tell God told him to write so where Israel had failed and fallen Jesus fulfilled yeah I really like entering into that that mystical interpretation of history and placing myself in that history do you remember when I sent you an email and I said to picture a bunch of kids at Sunday School listening attentively to your story yeah that's what I'm talking about like the mystery of history like you have a time in a place you're born here you live there you moved over there and you married this woman you had these kids you you know you did this job you went to this church and you you know all this stuff is being written down it's being written down by good angels it's been written down by fallen angels they're all keeping track both sides of the bottle are keeping track and then at your particular judgment you're gonna see all that right so it's very powerful and it's very very mystical so I always think about mystery the mystery of salvation history in terms of your role your particular role in the story and I don't you know about virtual reality but if that headset gets pulled off you abruptly suddenly you don't want to be caught doing something that is disrespectful to the author of that virtual reality game that you were playing that you were so engrossed in that you started to get selfish about it the virtual reality can really suck you in to the point where you start disrespecting the creator of that world and the enemy wants you to get distracted the enemy wants you to look at the shiny objects and all the beauty of it and get sucked into sexual pleasure and the pleasure of food money and power and everything else so that when that virtual reality headset gets pulled off you abruptly like a thief in the night you're sitting there next to Jesus Christ and you're in a very an embarrassing situation where you have lost touch with your Creator and you've lost touch with your Savior it's a very dangerous game and you have a role to play and you also been given the freedom to stray from that role so that's how I think about mystery salvation history yeah that's amazing just like you know we read the narratives of these people's lives in the Bible because they highlight a certain thing that God was doing but there's a story like that for all of us yeah yeah like in the in the reckoning man it scares me though man because you know in Christ he says you know like everything that was done in darkness is gonna be revealed like we're naked we're in front of everything and we and like in Hebrews talks about we're surrounded by a cloud of witnesses in Christ says every idle word that you've spoken will be held against you sigh oh man every idle word I think of how many idle words this stupid stuff I'm just mumbling to myself all day all the obscenities scary man because in first John it talks about if we do sin we have an advocate before the father Jesus Christ the righteous so is that like God's bringing down the hammer on you and Jesus steps and whoa whoa let's talk about this do you think it's like that I've read very graphic images of the judgment where there is that very legalistic structure where you've got your enemies on one side presenting these very damning facts and then you've got your advocates on the other side which include everyone from God Almighty the second person of the Holy Trinity interceding for you all the way down to that little sinner who is in heaven because of your prayers okay so if you make it into heaven it will be perfectly just and if you don't make it into heaven it will be perfectly just I mean wherever you end up it'll be perfectly just but the point is to trust in Jesus Christ and to not be attached to sin and that it really is quite simple as long as you can detach from sin he doesn't matter what you think the enemies have against you in the books already it doesn't matter that's all insignificant that's nothing compared to the resources you have among your friends the Saints and of course Mary and God and himself so it's all about having confidence it's all about having trust in Jesus Christ once you have that then the threat of the skeletons in your closet coming out they can be seen for what they are which is nothing really your sins are nothing and that's awesome that's peace and stuff but I was just reading you know first John and chapter 2 begins with my children i'm writing you these things for the may not sin but if anyone does sin we have an advocate with the father Jesus Christ the righteous he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins not for ours only for also for the whole world then it says this is how we know that we know him if we keep his commands the one who says I have come to know him and yet doesn't keep his commands is a liar and the truth is not in him whoever keeps his word truly in him the love of God has made complete and then he goes on saying things like if you continue on in sin you're a child of the devil and you're not of God you know so I know that I'm a sinner man every day so it says everyone who remains in him does not sin everyone who sins has not seen him or know him children let no one deceive you the one who does what is right is righteous just as he is righteous the one who commits sin is of the devil for the devil has sinned from the beginning the Son of God was revealed for this purpose to destroy the devil's works everyone who has been born of God does not sin it's like I want to wish wash around that but it's so point-blank in your face like how do you interpret that right away the intuition that comes to me is Paul's conversation with God take this thorn away from me and God says my grace is sufficient for you so imitate Paul recognize the thorn that you have and you know you too will pray for that thorn to be removed and God will give you the same answer my grace is sufficient so the the thing I want you to remember is that you are a sinner but you are a different kind of sinner now you are striving to always say yes to grace and always say no to sin and I think you know by now that there's a distinction a very powerful and real distinction between venial sin and mortal sin and so it's actually a lot harder for you to sin now than it was before because in order for you to have sin the kind of sin that causes death in you in order for you to do that you need to disrespect your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in a conscious way where you know it's wrong you know what grapes in but you're gonna do it anyway and I don't think you're doing that I think that there's an inner tension now that is the surest sign that you are striving to always say yes to grace and noticing and never sin again so when you feel the tension that oh my god even today I sinned Lord why why did you allow me to sin I don't want us in carry that tension and that desire to be better at day after day that's a pledge that you are committed to always saying yes to grace and notice in and you don't ever want to sin again but be patient with yourself yeah right and that does help you saying that it's just man I was John would've said that these Christian guys and you know I love how you point out you know the Protestant deal is one guy's opinion private interpretation against another and it's so true and that's what was driving me nuts but I mean some of these guys are like look your sin and they say that they're sinless they say they believe in sinless perfection which is crazy I know but they believe it but they're like that's what the Bible says if you're sinning you're not of God I am well then you look it up and I've heard and I just hear these weak arguments where they're just being contortionists and bending every which way and oh he's practicing that means you're practicing trying to get better at it but no it says if you send that and I look up the original language and everything it just means if you sin you are blank you know ya tired dude that's why you need help that's why that you are sick that's why you placed yourself in the hospital it's not easy so this is the thing I mean you know even the greatest Saints knew that they barely escaped condemnation they barely escaped eternal punishment and hell and they knew the mercy of Jesus Christ on them because they knew that they were sinners so imagine we're supposed to look to the Saints as an example right as heroic virtue and the saintliness and holiness and all this sort of thing well they know that they're sinners they're going to confession often they are falling they are sinning and they're reading the same passages that the Bible that you're reading and they are mortified by their weakness and this is what makes them Saints is because they know they know they're sinners they know they're pathetic they know they're sick and that's why they avail themselves of the perfect doctor the perfect surgeon Jesus Christ this is what it means you're not a Puritan you don't you do not belong to a Puritan religion period give it up you are a sick and ugly and pathetic and disgusting and smelly sinner but you placed yourself in the hospital you are there you're in and you just thank God that I by the grace of God I had the freewill to make the reasonable choice the only reasonable choice there is to make which is to say yes to Jesus Christ and to put yourself in that waiting room so that one day you'll be purified you make it to heaven it's cause for celebration and someone I interviewed today gave me a really interesting analogy where he went to a charismatic Catholic Church where everyone's like throwing their arms up in the air and the singing and there's like corny music and all this sort of stuff and he said I hated it I was embarrassed by all these idiots and then I got an inspiration from God he said put your arms up in the air like everyone else is doing and he said no I'm not gonna do that he said okay well I can't force you but why don't you just trust me and try it and so he stuck his arms up in the air like an idiot like all the other people with the corny music playing and he said he was completely released from all his guilt all its shame because he was a really horrible center at the time and from that day forward he's been free he's been free from anxiety free from fear yeah he still has problems in his life but he has the joy of Jesus Christ in his hurt now just because he surrendered he really did surrender so yeah a charismatic Catholic thing that sounds insane I mean I wish there was something like that around I'd go man I'd go check it out and then my other and my other buddy I was just talking to you that I've known forever that he knew me and Isaac old demon-possessed crazy person and from way back and he was my drummer eyes from like a speed metal band you know back in the day and we both became Christians and stuff later on life now we're hanging out again but like I was talking to him about you know my my trip and Catholicism you know and he's just saying wow you know he's gonna I think he's gonna jump on board too because he's like I think that we've been lied to about what Catholics believe because I was telling him I'm like yeah I got this guy talking to you and all these mischaracterizations of the it's like oh you worship Mary you know you this and that and it's just like no those are those are just caricatures of something they're it's false you know it's like straumann so um because he loves all the saints like he's like reading you know aquinas and reading all those guys all the time and it's just like if you if you want to see some wisdom and learn some stuff you go to the church fathers and they all just happen to be Catholic say oh okay you know to me and even in the Protestant things they quote from these guys all-time like in the Puritans like John Calvin said everything that I teach I got from Augustine that's what he claims he you know yeah he said I didn't come up with any this is all you know our guessing or whatever so I don't know why he wanted a be a reformer then and it's funny because the Reformers they were trying to reform the Catholic Church they weren't trying to start a movement they saw some problems in the church like Luther he didn't want to leave Catholicism he just wanted to change a couple of things and they're like no they kicked him out so then he started his own deal but he was not kind of leave you know he did he was pretty pretty hair taken all that but I'm just saying you know I mean he was trying to reform the Catholic Church and just make it better but I don't know I just think it's funny and and then and the big thing too like the Bible the Bible's Bible the Protestant thing you know and with my wife it's like who canonized the scripture like you're all about the Bible good who gave that to you I don't know it's just funny yeah well we're short-sighted people were very blind very blind but the riches that we have in the Catholic Church are just mind-boggling if anyone could get a taste of it they would never look back anyone who tastes the rich treasures that we have not only in terminals of sacraments but in terms of the Saints in terms of the writings in terms of the history in terms of Education in terms of science in terms of everything it's just like so rich so diverse it really is a blessing I mean once once you see the treasure we have in the church I really don't understand why anyone would stay out and once they're in I don't understand why they leave yeah and another thing too I always thought it was just some dead empty faith you know just some dry religious dead empty faith because that's kind of what I witnessed growing up but now that I'm going there I see people pouring out their heart to God and just in this truth devotion I don't know it's going on in their heart but you can tell did you know and the more that talked to my parents I had a mischaracterization of them too in their faith it's like they actually do believe I'm just like oh we're just here to be seen by everyone that we're here and it's just a traditional family thing but no dude and shame on me for think of that with my parents you know like my mom and my dad you know it's like they didn't really talk about it at home but I mean I don't know I I do see some devotion I see people there pouring out their hearts and people being so kind to me cuz I go in there like a total idiot they'll stop with their deal and you know and they'll show me where to you know look in the books and stuff and where the prayers are and what I'm supposed to say and everything I'm just like total idiot and they're but they're also I just found some kindness and some just loving godly people man yeah this is true religion we're just not truly attracted to that once you make the decision that this is the church this is Jesus Christ this is how you worship then you can see with your eyes open you can see the good examples you can follow they're good examples and you can just place yourself in their presence and just absorb it there's a lot of stuff in life that is just unspoken where you just soak it up put yourself in the presence of good and avoid evil yeah like Pope Francis one of his prayers it's just like whenever there's strife help me to bring peace to that situation or when there's do you know what I'm talking about are you talking about Saint Francis of Assisi prayer oh I don't even know where there is discord let me so yeah Lord make me an instrument of your peace where there's hatred let me sow love where there is injury pardon where there is doubt faith where there's despair hope where there is darkness light where there is sadness joy Oh divine master grant that I might not much seek to be consoled as to console to be understood as to understand to be loved as to love for it is in giving that we receive it is in pardoning that we are and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life amen boo that's good huh hey I want that Saint Francis of Assisi and he's a good guy he's got Saint in front of his name was he a recent guy though no 13th century oh cool man I go check them out I gonna see more of this stuff because isn't that it though like in your small circle of influence that you have even if it's just like your own family if you're just that little influence of Christ that's being that little bit of peace I mean and all of us out there worldwide and our little spheres the whole world will be changed and like when Jesus said that little mustard seed that grows into the biggest what everyone is talking about the kingdom starts with something very tiny minuscule nothing it was 12 guys standing there staring at the sky and the angels like Chris Tarrant the sky you morons he's gonna come back just go do what he just told you to do and it's like BAM look at it now man we're global all of that stuff that Jesus said came true all of those things the kingdom was like this and and and then Daniel when Daniel is prophesying about the kingdom becoming is prophesying about the Messiah coming in the kingdom that will never fall it talks about that stone that was cut without hands it gets thrown at that statue that's made of the gold bronze and iron you know that was Nebuchadnezzar and he said that that rock that broke that statue became a mountain that overtook the entire world that's the kingdom of God that's the mustard seed that's the little leaven that goes into the whole thing it's already happening man it's amazing huh you got your preach on today huh we're supposed to be in the world but not of the world that means we're supposed to live our simple human nature we're supposed to be fully human but not get sucked into worshipping the creature in any way whether it be sex food power or whatever it is so it's amazing to think about God being so humble and so patient and being so natural and he took on our humanity and look at the mother of God look at the foster father of God you know Mary and Joseph look at the example so calm so peaceful and so patient it's really really inspirational if you meet regular normal Catholics who are good people it really is a peek into heaven I think yeah that's amazing that's great and it's Christ in them like you just said that was that just hit me that person that thing that he is that I see in Ernie of us you know the people like that that's Christ that you're seeing in them I think there's a tendency for us to seek the novelty and that's an aberration you know it's to be more and more yourself and you're not going to lose your personality you're gonna you're gonna see your true personality coming out and like I always like to emphasize each one of us has a guardian angel and that guardian angel is absolutely unique in his species there is no one like your guardian angel and so each of us is really unique we don't need to strive to be eccentric when you love and when you're natural when you're wholesome and good you will be very very interesting more interesting than you are as a sinner who's trying to put on a show all the time you know what I mean yeah yep yeah yep and that's been pretty much my life is trying to be that guy but really before we wrap up is there anything else that's been on your mind questions concerns about Mary or concerns about yeah I'm still not you know can I and I know you're not gonna let me get out of this because like you say you say that certain truths they're truths that you have to believe us you're not a Catholic and the merit Mary and and I love how you talk about the Pope and everything but I mean I I don't get it let me just paint a picture for you let's say that God Almighty gave you the keys right now okay so this is a fantasy God gives you the keys you now hold the keys to heaven look at you as you are right now with all your faults and all your failings and all your weaknesses he gives you the keys right now so when someone comes up to you and says I heard you have the keys and then they start criticizing your personality what are you gonna say you're gonna say don't look at me just acknowledge the fact that God for whatever reason in His infinite wisdom he gave me the keys that's all you need to know you don't need to know all the details of my sin you don't need to know all my weak you don't need to know anything all you need to know friend is that I have the keys do I deserve the keys no I do not but I have the keys that's reality so it's the same thing when you look at Pope Francis you don't need to like him you don't need to admire him but you need to acknowledge he was given the keys that's it and when you ask him about his faults he'll say yes I'm a sinner but don't worry about that just look at the keys that God has given me I'm not worthy to have the keys but I have the keys do you want in yes or no I can't force you but I I'm the guy with the keys that's it it's like you can humble yourself by looking at the Pope humble yourself by saying what if I had been given the keys that's amazing yeah I never thought of that because because he was passing it on to a human so no matter which human it was there's gonna be some humaneness to it some sinfulness something stupid even yeah that's good just keep it in perspective it's a mystical thing it's a mystery and the church itself like I said at the very beginning of this is a mystery the church is a mystery we cannot understand it so certainly you're not going to understand the mystery of the Incarnation and Mary's Immaculate Conception and all the rest well that's good stuff that I can still not worry about it right like okay I'll just I trust ya just trust just trust in Jesus I trust it but I don't have to at this point in my walk I don't want to pretend or do yeah I mean God's not impressed with that no no no no no just ask Jesus when you pray pray to the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is the spouse of Mary so I don't know do we do that are we supposed to pray this way I've always wondered that to you because the Spirit I think in the scripture is kind of is like he only points to Christ like he's like don't look at me look to Christ look to Christ I don't know I'd be uncomfortable doing that to you but a lot of a lot of Protestants to do that there are songs to the Holy Spirit and I've never felt comfortable with that do you pray to the Father yes okay do you pray to their son yeah I mainly pray to the Father in the name of the son okay okay yeah so do whatever you're most comfortable with just be natural be you and don't pretend to be something you're not and pray to God the Father through Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit like you normally do and ask about Mary ask about the Pope ask about all the things you are most concerned about and asked to be given light and to understand that's it if there are any obstacles in your way ask that God will open your eyes and that will remove the obstacles and that's it you know prayer in the sacraments I wouldn't worry about it alright man alright brother well this has been great thanks for your time and and like I said keep sending me everything I'm gonna not respond as much as I would really really loved you and say a lot of things cuz all my things are being you know sacked Spyder and I don't want to you know I don't know I want my wife just know that I love her and I'm putting her first everything back but I need your dog so don't disappear and notify that I'm thinking about you're not praying for you every single day I'm listening to all your stuff and then I'm there man thanks brother I know you're there for me I know you're praying for me I can feel it and really appreciate school this alright brother