Catholic vs. Protestant - 2019-01-26 - Post Mortem

Author Recorded Saturday January 26th, 2019

There are 31 episodes in the Versus:Protestant series.


I never expected a self-proclaimed Christian, much less one who has experience debating, to hang up on me mid conversation, but that's what happened when I asked this guy why he rejects the doctrine of the Real Presence.


Catholic vs. Protestant - 2019-01-26 - Post Mortem

Author Recorded August 14th, 2016

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These YouTube transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
this was supposed to be an interview I was really looking forward to this interview with this Protestant guy pretty well-known I reached out to this guy because someone compared my quote/unquote apologetics approach with his apologetics approach I don't know much about America yes it's probably better that way since I want to protect his privacy his anonymity protect his dignity because I love and respect him but 40 minutes into what I thought was a very normal and pleasant interview he hung up on me he talked a little bit about how to debate atheists and then how to debate non-christian monotheists and then he mentioned that he has also debated Christians so having discussed these different levels of debate starting with the atheist and then the monotheistic finally the Christian it seemed to me that we were ready to go to the next level and to talk about some of the differences that separate his Protestant worldview from my Catholic worldview I think he knew that we were going to discuss it the show is called Catholic versus Protestant so I am pretty sure that he knew that because we had exchanged emails he mentioned that he doesn't agree with the Catholic Church and that he has some things to say about that and I said it should be a fun discussion but the very first question that I asked was about the real presence in the Eucharist I wanted to talk about the real presence and especially in the early church fathers where they talk about the real presence and John 6 of course just talk about why you reject the doctrine of the real presence I don't do debates on Roman Catholicism so I am not prepared to debate we don't need to debate I can't just talk but in John 6 I see the bread and the wine as metaphors Jesus also uses other men like I am the gate for the sheep in John 10 for example I don't see any reason to take it literally what about the early church fathers have you looked into it I don't have them in front of me I'm not prepared to debate on this topic had you ever been surprised at how they believe in the real presence early church fathers some of them do or some of them seem to use that sort of language what about Paul what about him do you think that he believed in the real presence I don't have any reason to think that he did do you yeah I think he said we have to eat word the Lea and if he unworthily that's why we have the sick and the dying among you and all this or thing but where does that indicate or Express the real presence do you know the passage I'm talking about yeah 1st Corinthians 11 so what does he say for I received from the Lord but I also handed on to you that the Lord Jesus on the night he was handed over took bread and after he had given thanks broke it and said this is my body that is for you do this in remembrance of me in the same way also the cup after supper saying this cup is the New Covenant in my blood do this as often as you drink it in remembrance of me for as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord a person should examine himself and so eat the bread and to drink the cup for anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself that is why many among you are ill and infirm and a considerable number are dying so how do you interpret that in the context of the real presence what do you think he's talking about the breaking of bread at communion okay where does this address the real presence so explain to me what the warning is that if they eat and drink in an unworthy manner in other words perhaps they have unconfessed sin before the Lord perhaps they are at enmity with their fellow brother they should put those right before eating and drinking of the Lord's Supper okay we are obliged to attend Mass every Sunday and other days of obligation if you're not in a state of grace you're not allowed to take Union so some people choose to remain in a state of mortal sin and they attend the Sunday Mass until such time as they gather up the courage to go into the confessional and then they're in a state of grace and then that following Sunday they take communion so their two options don't partake or get ready and then you can partake so you don't have to partake of the communion but if you're going to partake of the communion you better be ready you better be in a state of grace and that's what Paul's saying and so there I think you have to admit that people were Christian in a state of sin there at these meal times with the prayers and the readings and everything else right you have to admit some of them were in a state of grace and they partook of the meal some of them were not in a state of grace and they did not particular meal why because it's not allowed it's dangerous that's what Paul's saying I'm trying to understand why you think this communicates the real presence how does that express the real presence well in order to say that there's no real presence then what you're saying is it's a completely arbitrary taboo on breaking bread and drinking wine at these gatherings it's okay to be the gathering just don't partake of the bread at the gathering right whereas from my point of view as a Catholic point of view it's like there's no it's not just an arbitrary taboo against eating bread when you're not in he ended the call so I tried to call him back four times in a row and then he messaged me on Facebook he said do not call me stop calling me I do not want to talk with you I am not prepared to discuss Roman Catholicism I'm not prepared to debate with you about Roman Catholicism and I would prefer to just cancel the whole thing oh I just thanked him for his time and that was it this guy obviously was traumatized by one simple question about first Corinthians chapter 11 aren't we just two followers of Christ striving to improve in our faith journey or our walk with God when we examine the Scriptures together is there an immediate judgment that's gonna come down on one of us because one of us is wrong or is God patient and kind and long-suffering and does God put up with our ignorance and will God guide us as we discuss the Scriptures together will he guide us to a common understanding a common view of Jesus Christ or is it just a battle of who knows what who is memorized more of the scriptures who has the Pat answer who has the convincing argument the winning argument is that what my guests thought was happening a competition doesn't Jesus tell us that when we're being tested not to prepare what we're gonna answer but that the Holy Spirit will guide us and give us the right words at the right time isn't that what Jesus says so why do you feel the need to abruptly end this call in the middle of my question to you about Holy Scripture and go off and study and memorize your answer so that you're prepared when the next person asks you because you're not ready to debate on this one particular point and you had no idea that I was going to ask you this so you have to hang up and go and study is that what this is all about wouldn't it be better to just keep silent and respond in docile and submissive obedience to God Almighty who in your heart if you don't know you say I don't know if it's perplexing you can say it's perplexing if you don't want to talk about it you can say I don't want to talk about it if you feel like your entire Protestant worldview is crumbling under your feet you can say I'm not feeling well can we continue this conversation in another day there are many ways for a mature adult to communicate his discomfort when discussing Holy Scripture with a fellow Christian but earlier in our conversation during the first 40 minutes he did reveal to me that he does not consider me Christian because I submit to the doctrinal teachings of the infallible ecumenical council of trent which he considers anti-christian so maybe he ended the call because he thought there's no point in speaking with this person this person is an enemy of Jesus Christ because this person has freely chosen to unite himself with the horror the horror of Babylon the Catholic Church there's no need to treat this person with respect I'll just end that might be his approach I have no idea how would I know how would I know all I know is he said don't call me I don't want to discuss Roman Catholicism don't publish the interview and that was it so I just thanked him for his time and I am disappointed I am a little bit surprised that a Christian would treat another human being like that but perhaps he saw something in me that terrified him to the depths of his soul and I should say that I hadn't prepared for this interview because I don't there's that old saying I don't get ready I stay ready well it's always on my mind Jesus Christ is always on my mind I don't get ready I am ready I am ready at any time to give reasons for the hope that's in me because of Jesus Christ I'm always ready but it seems that my guest was not sufficiently prepared and so he ended the call anyway I wish him well I'm praying for him every day I bought a perpetual Mass for him and so he and his family will be receiving the infinite graces of the Holy Sacrifice of the mass every day until Jesus comes again so that's it we'll talk soon take care god bless

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