Catholic vs. Catholic - 2017-09-13 - Thomas

Author Recorded Wednesday September 13th, 2017

There are 44 episodes in the Versus:Catholic series.

Recorded September 13th, 2017

Catholic vs. Catholic - 2017-09-13 - Thomas

Thomas replied to a spam I sent to all the websites listed on the Wiki page on Sedevacantism. Strictly speaking, he does not consider himself a true Sedevacantist. Rather he believes that the Church has been taken over by impostors since 1958. We had a pleasant chat.To be my guest, email me at : CVS.Podcast@gmail.comOnce I have sufficient support for my nascent project, I will launch my Podcast on a dedicated service such as iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play Music, Miro, Overcast, and the like.


Catholic vs. Catholic - 2017-09-13 - Thomas

Author Recorded July 26th, 2017

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hi my name is tamas and you're listening to catholic vs. catholic so just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself if you would please who you are what you believe and how you came to believe it I come from a long line of Catholics my mother was Irish Catholic my father he was Anglican but had a bit of disdain for religion and I went to church every Sunday went to Catholic schools right through high school and I considered myself a Catholic although my my understanding of theology was was pretty limited and it seemed to me sitting in the pew at church when I was a teenager in my early 20s that it just surprised me that the church was able to create such a vast empire with such a poor product not product being the mass I do remember my mom telling me when she was a little girl that the mass was in Latin and slowly I kind of just stopped rolling all together even when I got married and I went a few times with my wife and it just I had completely lost my faith at that point even in God and yeah and I was I would say that I had become a materialist but that's just where I was at that point um but at the same time I was kind of learning also about how the world worked and like the Federal Reserve and you know some of the the terror attacks i watch some of those wind bees on how you know alternative theories so I was learning more more that you know the way that we're told the world works is not always the truth so eventually what happened the big event was I heard two Hutton Gibson which is Mel Gibson's father I heard a radio interview with him and he described how the church had been taken over I sensed very strongly that what he was saying was correct and then I ordered his books and I ordered other books and I did a lot of research on the internet and I came to the conclusion that the Catholic Church was the true Church and that it had been taken over and what year was it when it was taken over 19 eat and how long was the transitional period between hit being in the hands of Christ and then being in the hands of the enemies of Christ I guess two days everyone was explicitly taking sides within the two day period no no I think complicated issue I'll simplify it is the best I can there was there was a kind of malignant action within the church and the church has always been infiltrated to some degree there's always enemies but in the church and I'm not this is not districting my opinion there's some very prominent Catholic authors father baby was a very well-known writer in the 40s and 50s they said it was the the secret societies that would you know that we're doing so much damage the Masons the Masons the Illuminati there's a few factions there but in in the 1903 Conclave at the end of the reign of leo xiii there was a cardinal ram Pollock who was almost elected but he was vetoed by a cardinal on behalf of Franz Josef the Holy Roman Emperor at the time and so that was they hadn't come very close to capturing the papacy at that point in in RAM Pola was the secretary of state for leo xiii so it shows you just how close they were to controlling the pc at that point but Rand Paul was closest confidant was a man named Bishop Tedeschi and he had a seminarian named Angelo Roncalli in his seminary and kind of nurtured him and brought him into a position of prominence within the church he eventually became John the 23rd in 1958 so I'm just giving you a line of the most powerful group of enemies there and I'm saying 1958 is the point where the church was taken over because if you saw the film on October 26 1958 the first day of the Conclave there was a an omission of white smoke can you introduce the film because people don't know what you're talking about okay so as I learned the truth about the Catholic Church I realized that there was a lot of facts there was a lot of cool to the puzzle but they are all one was in this book and the one was in another book and what no one was in a film or on a website so I endeavor to take all those pieces of the puzzle the best I could and put it into one documentary film so I I did that movies called people imposters in its in twelve parts and it's available on YouTube the highlight of the film is actual footage from the 1958 Conclave it was the first day of the Conclave and there was a very clear mission of white smoke that lasted for a long time yeah and for the non Catholic listeners to explain the this moment in st. Peter's Square the the Cardinals get together in the Sistine Chapel they cast a ballot for the Pope and it's two thirds plus one will determine a new pope and if they get two thirds plus one they burn the ballots with the dry straw and it makes a very clear puffy looking smoke if they fail to elect a pope they burn the ballots with a damp straw and it creates a dark dense smoke so we we had a very clear signal that a pope had been elected did the crowd go out it appeared that they did go wild I do have the newspaper reports from the next day one of the Roman newspapers had a transcript from Vatican Radio the vacuum radio announcer said there is no doubt a pope has been elected and he kind of went on like that for a few minutes and then the signal changed to black and then it turns back to white but everyone into soon that a pope was going to be appearing on the balcony so they waited around for thirty minutes or so and finally the marshal of the Conclave was was in contact with the Cardinals inside and they said that it was a mistake but it was announced all over the world like people driving home and listening to the radios and the news had announced that a new pope had been elected so no Pope appeared and the Conclave continued in two days later john xxiii is announced as the new pope and he's part of the faction yeah he was you know he was allegedly a freemason working with the communists he was removed from his teaching positions because he was teaching heresy and teaching philosophies from strange characters we had a very shady background and he was in he was a Archbishop of Paris for a long time and he was very close to the well-known French freemasons so he became he got elected and one of the first things he did was to call a council which became known as Vatican two so basically he got elected and he right away started a program to destroy the church so he was neglected in 1958 and within 12 years they were coming out with a new mass that poor little resemblance to mass that they've been doing it for close to 1500 years from your perspective those that were loyal Catholics and that were not Freemasons they must have been outspoken with their outrage and they must have said something no no no unfortunately there was very little opposition to the new Mass the church was ripe for the picking a lot of the priests went along with the changes maybe not fully aware of what was happening at my own church which is which would be said to be contests where they they kind of just believed that the Pope fell into heresy and if you fall into heresy or if you preach heresy ex cathedra than you are if so facto excommunicated so that's kind of how they see their the city by contest City means the city is sede vacante his empty soul the empty seat so there is no Pope my position is slightly different where I believe that there is someone in the sea but the sea is being occupied by enemy agents okay a familiar with the Arian heresy and how rampant it ran yes are there parallels that you can draw just from your perspective on what's happening since 1958 oh yes the Saint Jerome said that at the time of the Arian heresy four and a five bishops had embraced the Arian heresy so there is a precedent and how did that resolve itself back into the 4th 5th centuries I believe they pulled the council and they condemned it is that the sort of thing that could happen from your perspective to resolve some of the I guess you call it these malignant factions is there a way that we could some the council and resolve it that way it would be quite hard although I'm more optimistic now than I was five years ago because Pope Francis is really quite bad and you know you saw a few Cardinals had written a letter Colonel Burke was one of them asking for clarification right two of them have since died by the way under mysterious circumstances well I don't know the circumstances but pour them wrote a letter and two of them are now dead and another one who didn't write the letter but was very critical as well but I mean they're all men too so do you have your own Pope now or do you just have Pope Francis no there is no Pope that I know of there's an ant about the last Pope died in 58 oh that's the last hope that we can be sure around but I feel fairly confident that Cardinal Seri was elected in 1958 there's been a few testimonies to the fact that he was Pope there was a Vietnamese priest went to see him came back and said that yes he he told me that he was the elected Pope did he accept the election off they wouldn't have released the white signal if he had not accepted to create a Cardinal II need to be a pope but to be a Pope you need Cardinals so there's sort of a chicken and the egg thing here if we don't have any Cardinals we can't make up open if we don't have a pope we can't make Cardinals so how do you resolve that well this is just my opinion but Cardinals theory was Archbishop of Genoa until his death in 1989 so he or the number of priests and he kept his area genoa very traditional but did he assumed the title of Pope and any create Cardinals no but his priests and his bishops are now Cardinals there's three or four of them they were made Cardinals by an antipope yes but appointing a cardinal is not a holy order Bishop is the fullness of the priesthood so then that's as far as you go it's not a separate order there's no indelible mark on the soul right so yeah a priest can actually become a Cardinal Cardinal Ottaviani he launched the audio Baney intervention he was just the priest so Mike concern is the sacraments how do you know that you're getting valid and licit sacraments please explain that to me a lot of times when they're criticizing traditional Catholics who are outside the mainstream church they call them illicit but that just means that they were ordained kind of illegally without the Pope's or the Piscean bishops permission yeah like if it turns out that the Greek Orthodox Church is the one true church then when the Catholic Church calls them illicit they're just wrong and there they are fully listed and they are fully valid and the Greek Orthodox Church is the one true church of Jesus Christ I don't believe that it is but from their perspective that's what they would say right okay yes or I was getting at the difference between invalid and elicits yeah but I'm just illustrating it using the Greek Orthodox because they do have valid sacraments and Holy Orders right and you're in a similar boat from my perspective and I'm in a similar boat from your perspective is that fair to say or no that order was changed I do not know whether that order is valid anymore and Cardinal Ratzinger was the first one ordained using that new method so I don't know if we have real bishops anymore so anyone who are deigned after that is questionable and in that's enough for me to just to not obtain sacraments from newer priests or newer bishops okay but is there a line that you followed that has proper orders right the two main lines of the Lefebvre line which is the Society's implies to tend so he was obviously in a valid bishop and he ordered lots of traditional priests Kaler shortly illicitly correct the other line is the tuck line he was the Archbishop of Vietnam okay and was he a contemporary of the fove they knew each other yes they did know each other and they were part of the resistance and are they significantly united is there an overlap in what they believe not really the two lines disagree about certain aspects of theology but that's understandable because there's no hope they can settle these differences for us and which line are you in I've gone to both I lived in South Korea for 12 years there was only the SSPX church there's well that's right two ended while I was there but they they kind of recognize that hope but they don't obey Him so I find that a little hard to sustain the fact that he's the Pope and I'm just gonna ignore him so I've chosen the to go a little chuckle um we're still a big number but there are our churches are getting bigger our church is doubled in size like it wasn't that big before is about fifty attendants but now there's there's over 100 in a few years and I don't know how many of the numa Sordo churches which is doing what the traditionalists called in the mainstream Catholic Church is the new besouro church and Novus Ordo that's the new order of mass so that's the term when they came out with a new mass they called it the newest order me say my mom and my the rest of my family all go to the new bezouro Church and I don't want them to go to hell so there's a lot of people a lot of traditionalists are very kind of antagonistic and aggressive it's not just one-sided but I certainly hope that if there's any grace to be had in the new verse order Church that my relatives are are getting it right I rather resolve the situation and you know maybe in part a little bit of our perspective rather than to antagonize what is the plan or the strategy for unity because st. Augustine famously said that we're gonna be surprised when we get to heaven a lot of people we thought were in the church we're outside of the church and a lot of people we thought were outside of the church we're actually in the church and it's very mysterious and I just want your perspective on unity and the sort of huge numbers of people apparently outside of the true church yeah not really my problem okay so I mean then when I say it's not my problem first of all I believed that for the average person or for me someone who's been through the can Gizem there's only one way to stop age and that's through the Catholic Church how we approach or interact with other religions and how we convert them that is up to people superior to me within the Catholic Church and if they had something for me to do then I would obey that but I'm not ordained or called to do anything about that okay but in your day do you have a daily prayer life yes does a unity fit in there somewhere or no what unity there's there's unity in the mass you're praying with all Catholics living and dead that's the nature of the mass is unifying speaking of the communion of saints are there Saints that have lived died and been recognized if not canonized because maybe there's not a canonization process that your church is able to do well there's we certainly wouldn't have as many as john paul ii created certain lender was saints right because a saint does anyone who dies and goes straight to heaven so I'm sure there were were Saints but was was Cardinal serious st. was lefeber a saint I don't know do you think it's possible and if so what sort of probability would you give it that Saint John Paul the second is actually a saint I would say zero probability zero he is a saint yes okay what is it what's what what probability would you assign that he will make it to heaven well I mean God and God is the ultimate judge and he won't send anyone to hell unless they deserve it can we talk a little bit more about your journey like your own personal life well first you have to come to the solid conclusion that the current mass that's available to you is not valid so that creates a huge burden on you to locate some place to go and then kind of go against society and all the trends it was more difficult when I was in Korea because there was one church it was five hours away so I would go and there was only a priest there what's a lot so I go and we go once a month here we travel about an hour and 20 minutes at Sunday and then there's a big burden of homeschooling we actually send our kids to school and home school but most of the traditional people that I know their kids are all homeschooled and they're using the books they're using the Baltimore Catholic the same books they used 50 years ago okay so you like the Baltimore Catechism yes yes what year was that published is it important that it be before 58 in general as a whole like when we get a missile we make sure it's pre 1958 when I buy a Catholic book I look for the imprimatur and the hill up stat and all that do you have something similar in your church no no but yes I look through that do they still use that toy AAA they still use like how much do you know about the old mass do you know what they did to the mass the destruction of the mass is the most obvious evidence that the church has been overtaken and it's been run by air days I actually entered the church in 2009 so I'm not going to bring with me a wealth of experience and fond memories of the Latin Mass right okay a lot of new portal doors believe that they simply translated the old mass into English into every local language right right into every local language but that's not what happened they removed up to 60% of the old mass completely removed it and they were very strategic in how they removed it both polysix who became pope in 1963 who was really the worst most of the destruction occurred on his watch from 1963 to 1979 with five Protestant ministers and he asked them what they didn't like about the Latin Mass and they told him the sacrificial nature of the mass and the true presence of Christ on the altar so he just removed all those distinctly Catholic elements in what you have now is more or less it's a Protestant Mass what elements are missing today these are a consecration there's Stella consecration but they change the words of consecration and just recently they change them back but still if you change the words of consecration you don't contact the sacraments they've really invalidated the mass when they change the words of consecration do you remember the wording change is it something simple that you could recite to the audience yes it is I have my missile gear just so you know I don't attend Mass in English I attend in Italian and in French in Montreal yeah okay so this is what it says for the consecration of the chalice this is the original version for this is the chalice of my blood of the new and eternal testament the mystery of faith which shall be shed for you and for many unto the remission of sins so in the old one he says my blood will be shed for you and for many and they change that to will be shed for you and for all he used to be written in every alternate so if anyone removes or changes anything in the form of the consecration of the body and blood and by this change of words does not signify the same thing as these words do he does not confess after men the mass was unchanged for over a thousand years for them to come and make such a bold change to mass it just thinks the church was healthy and since the changes there's literally a fraction of the number of vocations or four people attending Mass as there used to be the crisis can be correlated with Vatican 2 right yeah I mean you'd have to be pretty dumb to deny that you know the wacky liberals are very happy with the crisis they think that it's just getting with the times right but the the faithful what I would consider a faithful Catholic faithful to the Magisterium they know there's a crisis since Vatican - they don't blame the Saints or the Pope's or the faithful Catholics for that they blame Satan and his minions who are taking advantage of every opportunity to introduce error in lies and corruption and perversion into the church I mean no I don't know anyone denies that there's corruption and perversion taking place in the Catholic Church the question is is there a church is the church a perfect society is it infallible is it does it have authority and is it in defect abomey nning that it will always be here until the end maybe that's a question for you what do you think about the promise of in-depth ability because the Baltimore Catechism makes it very clear that the church is in defective oh right and I believe I'm in within the church right now yeah but you're confident that your church will not fall completely it may go through some hard times but it will prevail well I do have a book I don't recall exactly what's in it but it is about the Antichrist and it says if Jesus didn't come and shorten the days that no one would be saved at all so when it comes to the end things are going to be bad so I don't think we'll just be all marching off to church who would though to care when the end times come but you mentioned the Arian heresy but there was also a pope called Anacletus the second innocent ii was elected first and in a clay discount of usurp the throne held it for eight years and then someone else was elected and then they they removed the second one after antiquate has died and they reinstalled the one that was elected to eat years previously so there is a precedent for the papacy to be usurped but never for such a long time because we're closing in on 60 years now can you talk a little bit I don't know if you know anything about the Avignon papacy is are there any parallels that you draw yeah I mean you won't pay me that when there was three popes yeah in France right yeah one was called john xxiii and then it like when i said in 1958 Roncalli became elected and he took the name john xxiii which no one had taken because the last on the 23rd was an anti poll who are some of your favorite popes and some of your favorite Saints in the Catholic Church pope pius xi his encyclicals were really good very clear very concise not ambiguous in slightest you know and then that's the church's job to teach and be the guiding light not to give us things that they say later all that was misinterpreted if they're doing their encyclicals the way they should there is no room for misinterpretation and probably st. Elena the mother of Constantine who basically made the Roman Empire Christian she helped to convert her son and she found the three crosses that Jesus and they did two others work their spiral she got her son to give her a bunch of money and they did an expedition to to the location where it had happened and apparently the slivers of the Cross are in the pillars in st. Peter's what you consider the true church are they eventually going to repossess a lot of the wealth in terms of art and relics and stuff like that I'm still hopeful I know but Cardinal Cirie ordained a few of those Cardinals that are there now and very close to the papacy so this is possible that one of them could get elected and start to come out near the end of my interviews I just like to give my guests a chance to talk directly to the audience so just as a final thought what would you say to anyone that's out there listening now I would say God is real heaven is real the Catholic Church is the true church but it's not as easy to find as it

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