Catholic vs. Catholic – 2017-09-13 – Thomas

Thomas replied to a spam I sent to all the websites listed on the Wiki page on Sedevacantism. Strictly speaking, he does not consider himself a true Sedevacantist. Rather he believes that the Church has been taken over by impostors since 1958. We had a pleasant chat.


Please excuse any errors as these captions were automatically generated by YouTube.

0:00 hi my name is tamas and you’re listening
0:01 to catholic vs. catholic so just tell
0:08 the listeners a little bit about
0:09 yourself if you would please who you are
0:11 what you believe and how you came to
0:13 believe it I come from a long line of
0:15 Catholics my mother was Irish Catholic
0:19 my father he was Anglican but had a bit
0:22 of disdain for religion and I went to
0:25 church every Sunday went to Catholic
0:27 schools right through high school and I
0:29 considered myself a Catholic although my
0:32 my understanding of theology was was
0:36 pretty limited and it seemed to me
0:39 sitting in the pew at church when I was
0:42 a teenager in my early 20s that it just
0:45 surprised me that the church was able to
0:47 create such a vast empire with such a
0:50 poor product not product being the mass
0:53 I do remember my mom telling me when she
0:56 was a little girl that the mass was in
0:57 Latin and slowly I kind of just stopped
1:01 rolling all together even when I got
1:03 married and I went a few times with my
1:05 wife and it just I had completely lost
1:09 my faith at that point even in God and
1:12 yeah and I was I would say that I had
1:14 become a materialist but that’s just
1:17 where I was at that point um but at the
1:19 same time I was kind of learning also
1:21 about how the world worked and like the
1:24 Federal Reserve and you know some of the
1:26 the terror attacks i watch some of those
1:29 wind bees on how you know alternative
1:31 theories so I was learning more more
1:33 that you know the way that we’re told
1:35 the world works is not always the truth
1:38 so eventually what happened the big
1:41 event was I heard two Hutton Gibson
1:43 which is Mel Gibson’s father I heard a
1:46 radio interview with him and he
1:49 described how the church had been taken
1:52 over
1:52 I sensed very strongly that what he was
1:55 saying was correct and then I ordered
1:58 his books and I ordered other books and
2:00 I did a lot of research on the internet
2:02 and I came to the conclusion that the
2:04 Catholic Church was the true Church and
2:07 that it had been taken over and what
2:11 year was it when it was taken over 19
2:13 eat and how long was the transitional
2:16 period between hit being in the hands of
2:20 Christ and then being in the hands of
2:22 the enemies of Christ I guess two days
2:25 everyone was explicitly taking sides
2:28 within the two day period no no I think
2:31 complicated issue I’ll simplify it is
2:34 the best I can there was there was a
2:36 kind of malignant action within the
2:39 church and the church has always been
2:42 infiltrated to some degree there’s
2:44 always enemies but in the church and I’m
2:46 not this is not districting my opinion
2:48 there’s some very prominent Catholic
2:49 authors father baby was a very
2:52 well-known writer in the 40s and 50s
2:53 they said it was the the secret
2:55 societies that would you know that we’re
2:57 doing so much damage
2:59 the Masons the Masons the Illuminati
3:02 there’s a few factions there but in in
3:05 the 1903 Conclave at the end of the
3:08 reign of leo xiii there was a cardinal
3:11 ram Pollock who was almost elected but
3:14 he was vetoed by a cardinal on behalf of
3:17 Franz Josef the Holy Roman Emperor at
3:19 the time and so that was they hadn’t
3:22 come very close to capturing the papacy
3:24 at that point in in RAM Pola was the
3:27 secretary of state for leo xiii so it
3:30 shows you just how close they were to
3:33 controlling the pc at that point but
3:37 Rand Paul was closest confidant was a
3:39 man named Bishop Tedeschi and he had a
3:42 seminarian named Angelo Roncalli in his
3:46 seminary and kind of nurtured him and
3:47 brought him into a position of
3:49 prominence within the church he
3:51 eventually became John the 23rd in 1958
3:56 so I’m just giving you a line of the
3:59 most powerful group of enemies there and
4:01 I’m saying 1958 is the point where the
4:04 church was taken over because if you saw
4:07 the film on October 26 1958 the first
4:11 day of the Conclave there was a an
4:14 omission of white smoke can you
4:16 introduce the film because people don’t
4:18 know what you’re talking about
4:18 okay so as I learned the truth about the
4:22 Catholic Church I realized that there
4:25 was a lot of facts there was a lot of
4:26 cool
4:26 to the puzzle but they are all one was
4:28 in this book and the one was in another
4:30 book and what no one was in a film or on
4:32 a website so I endeavor to take all
4:35 those pieces of the puzzle the best I
4:37 could and put it into one documentary
4:39 film so I I did that movies called
4:42 people imposters in its in twelve parts
4:44 and it’s available on YouTube the
4:47 highlight of the film is actual footage
4:49 from the 1958 Conclave it was the first
4:52 day of the Conclave and there was a very
4:55 clear mission of white smoke that lasted
4:58 for a long time yeah and for the non
5:00 Catholic listeners to explain the this
5:02 moment in st. Peter’s Square the the
5:04 Cardinals get together in the Sistine
5:06 Chapel they cast a ballot for the Pope
5:08 and it’s two thirds plus one will
5:11 determine a new pope and if they get two
5:12 thirds plus one they burn the ballots
5:15 with the dry straw and it makes a very
5:17 clear puffy looking smoke if they fail
5:21 to elect a pope they burn the ballots
5:22 with a damp straw and it creates a dark
5:25 dense smoke so we we had a very clear
5:28 signal that a pope had been elected did
5:30 the crowd go out it appeared that they
5:33 did go wild I do have the newspaper
5:36 reports from the next day one of the
5:38 Roman newspapers had a transcript from
5:40 Vatican Radio the vacuum radio announcer
5:42 said there is no doubt a pope has been
5:45 elected and he kind of went on like that
5:47 for a few minutes and then the signal
5:50 changed to black and then it turns back
5:53 to white but everyone into soon that a
5:56 pope was going to be appearing on the
5:58 balcony so they waited around for thirty
6:00 minutes or so and finally the marshal of
6:03 the Conclave was was in contact with the
6:06 Cardinals inside and they said that it
6:08 was a mistake but it was announced all
6:10 over the world like people driving home
6:11 and listening to the radios and the news
6:14 had announced that a new pope had been
6:16 elected so no Pope appeared and the
6:19 Conclave continued in two days later
6:22 john xxiii is announced as the new pope
6:25 and he’s part of the faction yeah he was
6:29 you know he was allegedly a freemason
6:32 working with the communists he was
6:35 removed from his teaching positions
6:36 because he was teaching heresy and
6:38 teaching philosophies from
6:40 strange characters we had a very shady
6:42 background and he was in he was a
6:46 Archbishop of Paris for a long time and
6:49 he was very close to the well-known
6:50 French freemasons so he became he got
6:54 elected and one of the first things he
6:56 did was to call a council which became
6:59 known as Vatican two so basically he got
7:02 elected and he right away started a
7:05 program to destroy the church so he was
7:09 neglected in 1958 and within 12 years
7:12 they were coming out with a new mass
7:14 that poor little resemblance to mass
7:16 that they’ve been doing it for close to
7:18 1500 years from your perspective those
7:20 that were loyal Catholics and that were
7:22 not Freemasons
7:23 they must have been outspoken with their
7:25 outrage and they must have said
7:27 something no no no unfortunately there
7:31 was very little opposition to the new
7:33 Mass the church was ripe for the picking
7:36 a lot of the priests went along with the
7:38 changes maybe not fully aware of what
7:43 was happening at my own church which is
7:47 which would be said to be contests where
7:49 they they kind of just believed that the
7:51 Pope fell into heresy and if you fall
7:54 into heresy or if you preach heresy ex
7:56 cathedra than you are if so facto
7:59 excommunicated so that’s kind of how
8:01 they see their the city by contest City
8:04 means the city is sede vacante his empty
8:07 soul the empty seat so there is no Pope
8:08 my position is slightly different where
8:11 I believe that there is someone in the
8:13 sea but the sea is being occupied by
8:15 enemy agents okay a familiar with the
8:18 Arian heresy and how rampant it ran yes
8:21 are there parallels that you can draw
8:23 just from your perspective on what’s
8:25 happening since 1958
8:26 oh yes the Saint Jerome said that at the
8:30 time of the Arian heresy four and a five
8:31 bishops had embraced the Arian heresy so
8:34 there is a precedent and how did that
8:37 resolve itself back into the 4th 5th
8:39 centuries I believe they pulled the
8:41 council and they condemned it is that
8:44 the sort of thing that could happen from
8:46 your perspective to resolve some of the
8:48 I guess you call it these malignant
8:51 factions is there a way that we could
8:53 some
8:54 the council and resolve it that way it
8:56 would be quite hard although I’m more
8:59 optimistic now than I was five years ago
9:01 because Pope Francis is really quite bad
9:04 and you know you saw a few Cardinals had
9:07 written a letter Colonel Burke was one
9:10 of them asking for clarification right
9:12 two of them have since died by the way
9:14 under mysterious circumstances well I
9:18 don’t know the circumstances but pour
9:20 them wrote a letter and two of them are
9:21 now dead and another one who didn’t
9:23 write the letter but was very critical
9:24 as well but I mean they’re all men too
9:27 so do you have your own Pope now or do
9:31 you just have Pope Francis
9:33 no there is no Pope that I know of
9:36 there’s an ant about the last Pope died
9:39 in 58 oh that’s the last hope that we
9:42 can be sure around but I feel fairly
9:44 confident that Cardinal Seri was elected
9:47 in 1958 there’s been a few testimonies
9:51 to the fact that he was Pope there was a
9:52 Vietnamese priest went to see him came
9:55 back and said that yes he he told me
9:57 that he was the elected Pope did he
9:59 accept the election off they wouldn’t
10:02 have released the white signal if he had
10:04 not accepted to create a Cardinal II
10:07 need to be a pope but to be a Pope you
10:09 need Cardinals so there’s sort of a
10:10 chicken and the egg thing here if we
10:12 don’t have any Cardinals we can’t make
10:14 up open if we don’t have a pope we can’t
10:15 make Cardinals so how do you resolve
10:16 that well this is just my opinion but
10:21 Cardinals theory was Archbishop of Genoa
10:23 until his death in 1989 so he or the
10:27 number of priests and he kept his area
10:30 genoa very traditional but did he
10:34 assumed the title of Pope and any create
10:36 Cardinals no but his priests and his
10:39 bishops are now Cardinals there’s three
10:42 or four of them they were made Cardinals
10:44 by an antipope yes but appointing a
10:47 cardinal is not a holy order Bishop is
10:50 the fullness of the priesthood so then
10:51 that’s as far as you go it’s not a
10:53 separate order there’s no indelible mark
10:55 on the soul right so yeah a priest can
10:58 actually become a Cardinal Cardinal
11:00 Ottaviani
11:02 he launched the audio Baney intervention
11:04 he was just the priest
11:06 so Mike
11:07 concern is the sacraments how do you
11:09 know that you’re getting valid and licit
11:12 sacraments please explain that to me a
11:14 lot of times when they’re criticizing
11:18 traditional Catholics who are outside
11:20 the mainstream church they call them
11:23 illicit but that just means that they
11:25 were ordained kind of illegally without
11:27 the Pope’s or the Piscean bishops
11:29 permission yeah like if it turns out
11:30 that the Greek Orthodox Church is the
11:32 one true church then when the Catholic
11:35 Church calls them illicit they’re just
11:37 wrong and there they are fully listed
11:39 and they are fully valid and the Greek
11:43 Orthodox Church is the one true church
11:45 of Jesus Christ I don’t believe that it
11:47 is but from their perspective that’s
11:48 what they would say right okay yes or I
11:50 was getting at the difference between
11:51 invalid and elicits yeah but I’m just
11:54 illustrating it using the Greek Orthodox
11:55 because they do have valid sacraments
11:59 and Holy Orders right and you’re in a
12:02 similar boat from my perspective and I’m
12:05 in a similar boat from your perspective
12:06 is that fair to say or no that order was
12:09 changed I do not know whether that order
12:12 is valid anymore and Cardinal Ratzinger
12:14 was the first one ordained using that
12:16 new method so I don’t know if we have
12:20 real bishops anymore so anyone who are
12:22 deigned after that is questionable and
12:24 in that’s enough for me to just to not
12:27 obtain sacraments from newer priests or
12:31 newer bishops
12:32 okay but is there a line that you
12:33 followed that has proper orders right
12:36 the two main lines of the Lefebvre line
12:39 which is the Society’s implies to tend
12:41 so he was obviously in a valid bishop
12:44 and he ordered lots of traditional
12:46 priests Kaler shortly
12:48 illicitly correct the other line is the
12:51 tuck line he was the Archbishop of
12:54 Vietnam okay and was he a contemporary
12:58 of the fove they knew each other yes
13:01 they did know each other and they were
13:03 part of the resistance and are they
13:06 significantly united is there an overlap
13:09 in what they believe not really the two
13:12 lines disagree about certain aspects of
13:16 theology but that’s understandable
13:17 because there’s no hope they can settle
13:19 these differences for us
13:21 and which line are you in I’ve gone to
13:24 both I lived in South Korea for 12 years
13:27 there was only the SSPX church there’s
13:29 well that’s right two ended while I was
13:31 there but they they kind of recognize
13:33 that hope but they don’t obey Him
13:36 so I find that a little hard to sustain
13:40 the fact that he’s the Pope and I’m just
13:42 gonna ignore him
13:43 so I’ve chosen the to go a little
13:46 chuckle um we’re still a big number but
13:49 there are our churches are getting
13:52 bigger our church is doubled in size
13:54 like it wasn’t that big before is about
13:56 fifty attendants but now there’s there’s
13:58 over 100 in a few years and I don’t know
14:01 how many of the numa Sordo churches
14:04 which is doing what the traditionalists
14:07 called in the mainstream Catholic Church
14:09 is the new besouro church and Novus Ordo
14:12 that’s the new order of mass so that’s
14:14 the term when they came out with a new
14:16 mass they called it the newest order me
14:18 say my mom and my the rest of my family
14:22 all go to the new bezouro Church and I
14:25 don’t want them to go to hell so there’s
14:29 a lot of people a lot of traditionalists
14:31 are very kind of antagonistic and
14:33 aggressive it’s not just one-sided but I
14:36 certainly hope that if there’s any grace
14:40 to be had in the new verse order Church
14:41 that my relatives are are getting it
14:44 right I rather resolve the situation and
14:48 you know maybe in part a little bit of
14:50 our perspective rather than to
14:52 antagonize what is the plan or the
14:55 strategy for unity because st. Augustine
14:58 famously said that we’re gonna be
14:59 surprised when we get to heaven a lot of
15:02 people we thought were in the church
15:03 we’re outside of the church and a lot of
15:04 people we thought were outside of the
15:05 church we’re actually in the church and
15:06 it’s very mysterious and I just want
15:10 your perspective on unity and the sort
15:14 of huge numbers of people apparently
15:17 outside of the true church yeah not
15:23 really my problem okay so I mean then
15:27 when I say it’s not my problem first of
15:29 all I believed that for the average
15:31 person or for me someone who’s been
15:33 through the can
15:34 Gizem there’s only one way to stop age
15:37 and that’s through the Catholic Church
15:38 how we approach or interact with other
15:41 religions and how we convert them that
15:44 is up to people superior to me within
15:46 the Catholic Church
15:47 and if they had something for me to do
15:49 then I would obey that but I’m not
15:52 ordained or called to do anything about
15:54 that okay but in your day do you have a
15:56 daily prayer life yes
15:59 does a unity fit in there somewhere or
16:01 no what unity there’s there’s unity in
16:06 the mass you’re praying with all
16:07 Catholics living and dead that’s the
16:10 nature of the mass is unifying speaking
16:14 of the communion of saints are there
16:16 Saints that have lived died and been
16:18 recognized if not canonized because
16:21 maybe there’s not a canonization process
16:22 that your church is able to do well
16:26 there’s we certainly wouldn’t have as
16:27 many as john paul ii created certain
16:31 lender was saints right because a saint
16:33 does anyone who dies and goes straight
16:35 to heaven so I’m sure there were were
16:36 Saints but was was Cardinal serious st.
16:40 was lefeber a saint I don’t know do you
16:44 think it’s possible and if so what sort
16:47 of probability would you give it that
16:49 Saint John Paul the second is actually a
16:52 saint I would say zero probability zero
16:55 he is a saint yes
16:57 okay what is it what’s what what
17:00 probability would you assign that he
17:02 will make it to heaven well I mean God
17:04 and God is the ultimate judge and he
17:06 won’t send anyone to hell unless they
17:08 deserve it can we talk a little bit more
17:12 about your journey like your own
17:14 personal life well first you have to
17:17 come to the solid conclusion that the
17:19 current mass that’s available to you is
17:21 not valid so that creates a huge burden
17:25 on you to locate some place to go and
17:28 then kind of go against society and all
17:30 the trends it was more difficult when I
17:33 was in Korea because there was one
17:34 church it was five hours away so I would
17:36 go and there was only a priest there
17:37 what’s a lot so I go and we go once a
17:39 month here we travel about an hour and
17:42 20 minutes at
17:43 Sunday and then there’s a big burden of
17:47 homeschooling we actually send our kids
17:51 to school and home school but most of
17:55 the traditional people that I know their
17:57 kids are all homeschooled and they’re
17:59 using the books they’re using the
18:00 Baltimore Catholic the same books they
18:02 used 50 years ago okay so you like the
18:05 Baltimore Catechism yes yes what year
18:08 was that published is it important that
18:10 it be before 58 in general as a whole
18:13 like when we get a missile we make sure
18:15 it’s pre 1958 when I buy a Catholic book
18:20 I look for the imprimatur and the hill
18:22 up stat and all that do you have
18:24 something similar in your church no no
18:27 but yes I look through that do they
18:29 still use that toy AAA they still use
18:32 like how much do you know about the old
18:34 mass do you know what they did to the
18:36 mass the destruction of the mass is the
18:38 most obvious evidence that the church
18:41 has been overtaken and it’s been run by
18:43 air days I actually entered the church
18:46 in 2009 so I’m not going to bring with
18:49 me a wealth of experience and fond
18:51 memories of the Latin Mass right okay a
18:55 lot of new portal doors believe that
18:58 they simply translated the old mass into
19:01 English into every local language right
19:04 right into every local language but
19:06 that’s not what happened they removed up
19:09 to 60% of the old mass completely
19:12 removed it and they were very strategic
19:15 in how they removed it both polysix who
19:18 became pope in 1963
19:20 who was really the worst most of the
19:23 destruction occurred on his watch from
19:25 1963 to 1979 with five Protestant
19:29 ministers and he asked them what they
19:32 didn’t like about the Latin Mass and
19:35 they told him the sacrificial nature of
19:39 the mass and the true presence of Christ
19:41 on the altar so he just removed all
19:44 those distinctly Catholic elements in
19:47 what you have now is more or less it’s a
19:49 Protestant Mass what elements are
19:52 missing today these are a consecration
19:56 there’s
19:56 Stella consecration but they change the
19:59 words of consecration and just recently
20:02 they change them back but still if you
20:05 change the words of consecration you
20:06 don’t contact the sacraments they’ve
20:08 really invalidated the mass when they
20:10 change the words of consecration do you
20:13 remember the wording change is it
20:14 something simple that you could recite
20:16 to the audience yes it is I have my
20:21 missile gear just so you know I don’t
20:24 attend Mass in English I attend in
20:27 Italian and in French in Montreal yeah
20:30 okay so this is what it says for the
20:32 consecration of the chalice this is the
20:34 original version for this is the chalice
20:37 of my blood of the new and eternal
20:39 testament the mystery of faith which
20:42 shall be shed for you and for many unto
20:44 the remission of sins so in the old one
20:48 he says my blood will be shed for you
20:50 and for many and they change that to
20:53 will be shed for you and for all he used
20:57 to be written in every alternate so if
20:59 anyone removes or changes anything in
21:01 the form of the consecration of the body
21:03 and blood and by this change of words
21:05 does not signify the same thing as these
21:07 words do he does not confess after men
21:10 the mass was unchanged for over a
21:13 thousand years for them to come and make
21:15 such a bold change to mass it just
21:18 thinks the church was healthy and since
21:21 the changes there’s literally a fraction
21:24 of the number of vocations or four
21:27 people attending Mass as there used to
21:29 be the crisis can be correlated with
21:32 Vatican 2 right yeah I mean you’d have
21:36 to be pretty dumb to deny that you know
21:38 the wacky liberals are very happy with
21:41 the crisis they think that it’s just
21:43 getting with the times right but the the
21:46 faithful what I would consider a
21:48 faithful Catholic faithful to the
21:50 Magisterium they know there’s a crisis
21:53 since Vatican – they don’t blame the
21:56 Saints or the Pope’s or the faithful
21:57 Catholics for that they blame Satan and
22:00 his minions who are taking advantage of
22:02 every opportunity to introduce error in
22:05 lies and corruption and perversion into
22:08 the church I mean no I don’t know anyone
22:10 denies that there’s corruption and
22:11 perversion taking place in the Catholic
22:13 Church the question is is there a church
22:17 is the church a perfect society is it
22:20 infallible is it does it have authority
22:21 and is it in defect abomey nning that it
22:24 will always be here until the end maybe
22:26 that’s a question for you what do you
22:27 think about the promise of in-depth
22:29 ability because the Baltimore Catechism
22:31 makes it very clear that the church is
22:34 in defective oh right and I believe I’m
22:38 in within the church right now yeah but
22:40 you’re confident that your church will
22:42 not fall completely it may go through
22:45 some hard times but it will prevail well
22:48 I do have a book I don’t recall exactly
22:50 what’s in it but it is about the
22:52 Antichrist and it says if Jesus didn’t
22:55 come and shorten the days that no one
22:57 would be saved at all so when it comes
22:59 to the end things are going to be bad so
23:01 I don’t think we’ll just be all marching
23:03 off to church who would though to care
23:05 when the end times come but you
23:08 mentioned the Arian heresy but there was
23:10 also a pope called Anacletus the second
23:13 innocent ii was elected first and in a
23:18 clay discount of usurp the throne held
23:21 it for eight years and then someone else
23:24 was elected and then they they removed
23:26 the second one after antiquate has died
23:29 and they reinstalled the one that was
23:31 elected to eat years previously so there
23:34 is a precedent for the papacy to be
23:36 usurped but never for such a long time
23:38 because we’re closing in on 60 years now
23:41 can you talk a little bit I don’t know
23:43 if you know anything about the Avignon
23:45 papacy is are there any parallels that
23:48 you draw yeah I mean you won’t pay me
23:50 that when there was three popes yeah in
23:52 France right yeah one was called john
23:55 xxiii and then it like when i said in
23:58 1958
23:58 Roncalli became elected and he took the
24:01 name john xxiii which no one had taken
24:05 because the last on the 23rd was an anti
24:08 poll who are some of your favorite popes
24:12 and some of your favorite Saints in the
24:14 Catholic Church pope pius xi his
24:17 encyclicals were really good very clear
24:19 very concise not ambiguous in
24:23 slightest you know and then that’s the
24:25 church’s job to teach and be the guiding
24:27 light not to give us things that they
24:30 say later all that was misinterpreted if
24:32 they’re doing their encyclicals the way
24:35 they should there is no room for
24:36 misinterpretation and probably st. Elena
24:40 the mother of Constantine who basically
24:43 made the Roman Empire Christian she
24:47 helped to convert her son and she found
24:49 the three crosses that Jesus and they
24:52 did two others work their spiral she got
24:55 her son to give her a bunch of money and
24:57 they did an expedition to to the
24:59 location where it had happened
25:01 and apparently the slivers of the Cross
25:04 are in the pillars in st. Peter’s what
25:07 you consider the true church are they
25:09 eventually going to repossess a lot of
25:11 the wealth in terms of art and relics
25:13 and stuff like that I’m still hopeful I
25:16 know but Cardinal Cirie ordained a few
25:18 of those Cardinals that are there now
25:20 and very close to the papacy so this is
25:25 possible that one of them could get
25:26 elected and start to come out near the
25:31 end of my interviews I just like to give
25:33 my guests a chance to talk directly to
25:35 the audience so just as a final thought
25:38 what would you say to anyone that’s out
25:40 there listening now I would say God is
25:45 real heaven is real the Catholic Church
25:47 is the true church but it’s not as easy
25:50 to find as it
25:52 [Music]

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