Catholic vs. Protestant - 2019-10-02 - Jeremy Best Part 2

Author Recorded Wednesday October 2nd, 2019

There are 31 episodes in the Versus:Protestant series.


Jeremy asked to come back and finish what we started in his first interview. In this episode we talk about authority, the Trinity, the primacy of St. Peter, and the nature of the Church which Christ built while he was on Earth.


Catholic vs. Protestant - 2019-10-02 - Jeremy Best Part 2

Author Recorded August 14th, 2016

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These transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
Jeremie best part - since interviewing you I've seen some of the comments people suggesting maybe that you're part of a movement of oneness evangelicalism or Pentecostalism or something like that can you address those comments and tell me if there's any substance to the claim and sort of tell me what it is exactly that you believe and where you got these teachings well I think that's a great question to start off where did I derive my understandings from it would be my answer on what Paul gave in first Galatians chapter 1 verse 11 and he says for I would have you know brethren that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man for I neither received it from man nor was I taught it but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ and when I was 18 years old I knew that the Lord had called me into ministry and that I would one day share the gospel and preach and teach and I remember sitting at a table with a bunch of Ministers after one Sunday afternoon church meeting and they were arguing amongst themselves about baptism and it got fairly heated one said no its baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ see and then one would say oh no you're mistaken it's the Trinity you have to baptize in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit and one would say dunked all the way one would say sprinkled with a cup and I'm here as an 18 year old boy listening to these guys and something dawned on me it was a tragedy and I mean a wonderful tragedy but I'm sitting here thinking who do I believe do I believe this man do I believe this they're both used in Scripture right and that's when I went home and I sat before the Lord and I said Lord and I really cried I said how can I preach the gospel and teach and share when I do not even know your truth how am I going to be like Peter and Paul and James who were willing to die for what they talked I have a question for anybody are you willing to die for what you believe do you know that you know that you know that what you have been taught is worth dying over I don't think there's very many people that know that they know the revelation of God because they've been given secondhand knowledge if somebody tells me about what Trump said I may not fight with you about it but if I hear him personally and I saw it with my own eyes I might argue with a person with much more fervency and fire and be willing to swear an oath in the court of law on what I heard but I would not be willing to swear an oath in the court of law on what I didn't hear if it was given to me by second hand now I might report that I heard somebody say it and this is the difference you say well then how can anybody get first-hand revelation if they're hearing secondhand teachings all the time the answer is you be just like the Bereans Paul said I adore the Bereans they're wonderful they don't believe a single word I say they go home they study it they ask the Lord show us confirm it in our heart and then when they did that they would believe if you believe everything everybody says you're gonna be tossed to and fro like a bunch of waves in the sea and religious ideologies and thinking's and that's why it's so so important to get at the feet of Yeshua in the Holy Spirit and say father teach me that doesn't mean I don't have men in my life that speak to me but they do not have the power to put words on my heart only God in heaven does that he and his finger will write the law in my heart where the Bereans that unified or where they divided among themselves and did some of them follow Paul and others reject Paul's teaching I honestly don't know the answer to that I do know according to scripture that Paul praised them I mean you can answer me this they did and I'm humble about this I don't know a whole lot about Catholic doctrine was Paul a Pope no okay was Peter a Pope yes he was the first pope yes okay why did Paul say that he did not go down to Jerusalem and learn from him why did he say that he did not get his revelation from man if you study those scriptures it will say specifically that he did I mean he was bragging about it it wasn't that he was just sharing a little bit you know about a little basic you know let me just share a little he was going completely all out saying I didn't go down and learn from that bunch I went and got completely taught by Jesus Christ himself through the power of the Holy Spirit so that's what I believe wholeheartedly that doesn't mean I don't respect the God in you I do I listen to you but only God can ride it on my heart and I'm using you as an example if the Holy Spirit speaks through you I'm gonna listen but only God can put it on my shelf yeah do you think Paul and Peter were united in the faith or do you think they were divided against each other with false beliefs I think Paul came to Peter with a revelation that had entered into his heart about some things and it needed to be shared with Peter and they had a council meeting and they came to an agreement at the end now this is a very very deep story that has a couple facets that are very powerful for people to know today and if you want I could share about those yeah well I think the essential point is who stood up at the end and declared the answer to the questions that were on the table was it Paul or was it Peter it was the whole council together that that prayed and unanimously came together and it you know they made decisions as a team as a body oh really it wasn't Peter that stood up and said this is the way it is and it's settled well he may have yeah but it does specifically say that they came together and they had a council meeting it was not specifically that I can remember that that Peter stood up and said this is how it is well let me let me ask you this just a very basic question would you oppose God if God ordained that his church that he built on Peter would be headed by the visible head of Peter the Vicar of Christ and that there would be visible hierarchy in his church in the Church of Christ and that there would always be one visible head and that he was protected from teaching err concerning faith and morals would you oppose God if that was what God ordained from all eternity if I believed wholeheartedly that that is the succession of authority and that is the chair of God and that is what God was doing I would most definitely adhere and submit to the chain of God but since I do not believe that that is the system in which God left the earth it's very hard for for people to identify with that because most of the people that I have spoken to recently do not use the scriptures to prove their cause in regard to the chair of Peter mostly they use a hidden meeting in almost every Christian and born-again believer that studies of scriptures automatically comes to a different conclusion that Peter was not says upon you I'm going to build my church but upon their revelation that he is the Messiah you you see if you look at Jesus as a parallel or a synonym to the Holy Spirit in the earth he went and selected men to represent him and he grew them up and he trained them and he empowered them and he established them in the area of Jerusalem he said go and all the world preach the gospel starting in Jerusalem Judea and the rest of the world and we see that they did that now Paul is a great example of this he would go into a city he would win them to the Lord he would train them up disciple them and then he would establish them as leaders well he gave them the Holy Spirit they had no documents no formal teaching from Peter it was a movement of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God and you know that's where I differ I believe that Yeshua took over the place of the bad shepherds of Israel and he did not re institute an institution he reinstituted a body of people who would be elders and that eldership would change it wouldn't be one man it would be a body of people throughout the world as the gospel would grow and that the Spirit of God would be the one that would lead them up and I know where you guys are coming from when you talk about well who has the authority to correct and this is a challenge when you have people who are not submitted to the word and who are not submitted to the Holy Spirit yeah what do you think of the chair of Moses was their God given authority residing in the chair of Moses yes or no absolutely until the Messiah would come but what do you think Jesus meant when he said do what they say but not what they do because they're hypocrites but they sit in the seat of Moses right okay this is a great question there is a mistranslation in that specific text and it's proven by another text that was found that is called Shem Tov's matthew and also the aramaic version of matthew and they proved scholars and linguistics who are masters in Aramaic and Hebrew that it's only one tittle difference between the word they and the word he so when you read this text it says whatever he says to do do it but do not do what the Pharisees do do not do and you know because they don't walk the line so when you study who is the word he you could ask any Jew who was that he oh that's definitely Moses because scholars have looked at this text in the way that it was transcribed for example in many of the circulating Bibles and it doesn't make any sense how could Jesus come out of his mouth say do whatever they say but don't do what they do because in the Jewish faith that is a paradox nobody talks like that first of all if you go up to a Jew and ask him do you believe he'll look at you and scratch his head like what are you talking about I don't even understand your question but if you ask him do you practice Oh because Jewish people do not want to know what you believe in your mind they said show me your faith by what you confess with your mouth and I will show you my faith what I do with my actions Judaism is a very action-oriented faith so when you're talking about do what the rap that nobody would would even believe in the rabbis first of all they were not the only sect at the time I'm talking about the Pharisees there were scenes there was elet's there were there's actually another group that they have found that was called the Pharisees of the Pharisees or the Covenant errs of the Covenant errs and there was also the thues aliens I think I'm trying to pronounce their name I've read about them there's about five groups and all and the Sadducees so they all had to work together and they didn't all agree at the time in fact most of them were in heavy disputes over certain things the Sadducees did not believe in the oral law at all and the Pharisees did believe in the oral law and Jesus said you have shut up the kingdom of God with your tradition it was them who taught things that were not in the Torah and that's why I say that anybody who teaches things that's not in the Torah not in the prophets not in the scriptures goes right in line with what Jesus and Paul have said they did not teach a new tradition that's not found in the scriptures when Paul said if any other man come and teach another way than the way that I have showed you or another gospel you have to realize God selected Paul specifically because he was a Jew of Jews this man was a master at the Torah he was a master in the oral law he knew the law inside now and that's exactly what God wanted he gave him the heart of mercy and to understand that no man can inflict law on another person now only God the Father I cannot go to you and say you're not a Christian because you don't keep the Sabbath that would be wrong because that's why Paul was saying judge no man whether he keeps the Sabbath or if he eats pork or not because we are not not judges as far as whether or not a person has come into covenant or not with God I want you to imagine this David Paul goes into Rome and he meets a family that has several generations maybe ten generations of the most pagan lifestyle you've ever seen these people aren't holy they don't have a knowledge about the ways of God whatsoever and he is going to lead them into the kingdom of God and we know that it isn't just accept Jesus in faith it's also practice holiness and keeping the laws and everything else so Paul teaches them and he expects the Holy Spirit to instruct them like it talks about in Romans chapter excuse-me Acts chapter 15 and if we want I'll pull that scripture out because that when they made the announcement to abstain from blood immorality and a couple other laws if you read on that's where the important part is they said why do we need to enforce these laws on people for they go in the synagogue every week and they hear the law of Moses taught for themselves because the followers of Jesus knew that no longer were they a priest over people enforcing the law they were there to talk about the gospel and say Jesus is your high priest and you need to listen to him so if I am a new believer living in the area of Rome and I'm a major pagan but I just got saved do you think that I am going to keep for example the laws of the Sabbath or other things that might bring that not necessarily prove that I'm a Christian but that they reflect my holiness there are two parts to a man's walk there is righteous that we receive through the faith that we have in our Lord it is unmerited grace he makes us righteous in the eyes of the Father and we become his children becoming born again but what you and I agree on is that we must keep the commandments and to follow the Holy Spirit which would constitute the definition of holiness so a man must be holy so Paul is attacking Jude I tzer's who are going out and saying to these new believers that are just born again they have no knowledge of the Torah listen brother they're telling these new converts the Judaizers you must be circumcised Paul didn't tell you everything you got to be circumcised and you have to keep the Sabbath and you can't eat pork or you are not a part of the family of God and that is what Paul's talking about he never rebuked that the man shouldn't keep the Torah or follow the commandments he simply rebuked that you have no authority to tell him he's not a child because he doesn't earn his salvation it's been given freely but that man as the Lord enables him and strengthens him and leads him by the power of the Holy Spirit as he listens to the teachings in the synagogue's and the churches and and he reads the Word of God that he will begin to love his Lord and say God I keep these Commandments because I love you not because I have to you follow me yeah I don't think we disagree of that grace is necessary grace is necessary and without grace we can do nothing nothing good but the the question really is about the movement of the Holy Spirit and when I like to talk with Protestants about the the Ascension of our Lord when he went up to heaven and his disciples obviously and his apostles were upset that he was leaving but Jesus said it's better that I go because if I don't go I won't send the Holy Spirit to guide the church into all truth so there's a famous quote by Saint Agustin he said to the extent that you love the Catholic Church you have the Holy Spirit so if you don't love the Catholic Church you don't have the Holy Spirit so there's obviously a connection between having the holy spirit and being a member of the church which Christ built I don't think you would deny that fact you would just say perhaps that there's an invisible Church and we can't you know this invisible church is incapable of putting up a website on which Christians can see which essential saving truths have been established by the Church of Jesus Christ which teachings are in which teachings are out which books of the Bible are in which books are out what's the Canon what are the essential dogmas of the of the Christian Church that Christ founded you would say that the invisible church is incapable of doing that whereas I say well we do have a church there's a visible government throughout all of time since Pentecost and we do have a website and we do know which documents are well established and we do know the essential saving truths and we do know the heresies that have come up through history and that have been dealt with authoritative Lee so this is really the question I ask all Protestants where is the church that Christ built and why can't they get their stuff together and just put up a simple website with some of the essential saving truths that have been established well you have hit a phenomenal question I first want to go back to the first part that you stated unless you believe I'm gonna step out here and we're just gonna roleplay a little bit unless you understand or believe that the Catholic Church for example is the formation of a church that was not on behalf of God for example because they changed times and seasons they omitted laws they enforce things are not in the scripture various things that a lot of people have really raised flags with and you have to understand the whole reason the Protestant movement started was because people could read the Bible for themselves and they said what they teach is not here and also my wife I'm sure you've asked her she doesn't know the Bible in her youth at all but she could see and feel by the Spirit of God that there was a disconnection between them and God she said that this can't be God so if you understand that true church has been alive but has been persecuted by religious organizations and institutions during the dark ages you really couldn't stand up and say that you're a different Church you would be killed that is absolutely fact and when the person that did start it unless the nation of Germany joined him Martin Luther and his movement they would all been killed too but he convinced the hierarchy of that area that his faith was true and they believed him and they allowed him and permitted him to do this later he was killed now Martin Luther started Lutheranism now I want to share with you something I view Lutheranism at the same apostasy level as I do the Catholic Church the reason is because in their day God gave them truth did they know everything absolutely not but what happened was is they copied the same institution pattern that the Catholic Church did they created Archbishop's and bishops and they created doctrine and they sealed their fate God no longer moved in that church after about 50 to 100 years from its formation if you go back and study history there were people who were raised from the dead healed people that had massive deliverances and revival stroke this wasn't some guy who just started some new movement and God didn't vindicate it in fact you can go back and look when John Willis Lee started the movement amazing power of God it wasn't that they just started a revolt there was the power of God in these movements of extraordinary proportion there are so many testimonies that it'll blow your mind what happened in the 1930s there was a man by the name of William Branham Smith Wigglesworth Charles Finney these people had people resurrected from the dead absolutely the infilling of the Holy Spirit salvation the whole town would give their heart to God revival like you have never seen I've never seen a movement like that ever in the Catholic Church nor heard of it now if these people were polluted by outside influences that came in and said listen listen we have got to denominator church we've got to make it a religion in an organization and the moment they did that you can see in history where their movement stopped this is absolutely fact so looking like for example unto the days of when the computer was invented every so many years the technology increased it got better so if I was gonna go buy a computer today I would not go and look at the 1980s version for my home office desktop I would be looking for a newer version so when I look at religion I look at God has successfully brought his people from one level to the next if you kind of study Baptists went into Pentecostal Pentecostal went into a kind of holiness movement and it had merged into the Apostolic movement and they kind of merged into the the restoration of the Hebrew roots of the faith and then some people are learning about Messianic Judaism where I fall in the midst of all of that is sort of in the movement of I'm born again I'm baptized I'm filled with the Holy Spirit I'm studying the Messianic roots of the faith the Hebrew roots of the faith I am walking with God and we are all crying that God would formalize a body that would be free of this religious makeup that every single generation before us has adopted and your your question is true and it is something that God's people are looking for but at the same time I can show you the Catholic Church became the Lutheran became the Methodists the Mennonites the Episcopal Baptist Pentecostal each one of those organizations hands down has doctrine teaching you can go to their website and they'll tell you everything that you need to believe in what's heresy and what's not but the difference is is each successor had a greater knowledge of faith than the one previous to them none of the people that are Pentecostals generally came from the Baptist movement and the holiness movements so as you can see they have been recive in their revelation I think why they didn't continue in the power of God was for the very reason that they created a religious institution with doctrine and they basically said we've got it all we don't need to grow there's not any new revelation that we need to understand and that's when they died mmm for the Catholic there are four marks by which we can identify the one true church that Jesus Christ built right do you have something equivalent to the four marks by which you can know that you are a member of the one true church that Christ built well I would have to go to the writings of Paul Peter and of course the Gospels and Jesus said that we need to enter into a new covenant so if I was going to meet somebody first of all I can tell by the Spirit of God by their walk do they live and follow the will of the Father in their life everything in the New Testament doesn't relate whether you're a member of a church institution or government rather if you are birthed into a body of believers that have one faith one baptism one spirit jesus said if you are in me and I am in you you are of me and I'm of the father were one so the fruit is the most important identifier being filled with the Spirit of God being baptized knowing that you are a child of God you shall know them by their fruit I don't see one point in there that Jesus said that you will be a part of the church and considered saved if you take the Eucharist now he did say a statement that we have not me but others have misinterpreted he says if you do not eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no part of me well show me where they did any of that on the day of Pentecost when those people came and they said what must we do we've killed the Lord what should we do acts 2:38 he says very specifically repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall receive the Holy Spirit later did they participate in communion maybe or Passover Passover was a very celebrated festival in Israel and it was mandated by the Torah and actually when Jesus celebrated with his Passover's on the Lord's Supper that they call it it wasn't the Lord's Supper it was a Passover and that is specifically documented in the scriptures then after the Passover Seder meal that Jesus participated in for as much as up to 50 days people would eat matzah which is bread and wine it was a tradition the unleavened bread and it was part of their culture so we can see that eating bread and wine was a common meal and a common thing to do in a ritual especially during those festivals and leading up to Pentecost so I believe in taking bread and wine and praying and you know using it as a reminder but more importantly if I'm not baptized if I'm not filled with the Holy Spirit if I'm not consuming the real flesh of God which is the Word of God I'm sorry but you can eat crackers and juice all your life and be a pure devil it has nothing to do with your true walk if you don't believe me go and talk to people I've met people that go and do the Eucharist every week or every month or whatever the ritual is but yet they live nothing like Jesus they're Devils only by the power of the Holy Spirit can a man be changed and in order to get that you must be baptized and you must repent and you must seek the Lord with all your heart we must eat the Word of God yeah but the Jews were not afraid to consume the Word of God that Jews were used to digging into the Torah and all of the holy books of the of the Jewish people so there's no reason for the disciples to say this is a hard saying and then to abandon Jesus Christ when he said you must consume the Word of God in the scriptures that is not shocking there's no reason for the disciples to have abandoned him and then the second part of this question is why was Jesus conforming to Moses the law of Moses and the outward external religiosity the presentation by his mother and by Joseph of course the Passover which was a type of his own passion and death and resurrection and obviously he gave a lot more weight to what you call disparagingly religion or religiosity Jesus Christ was not disparaging of religion he participated in religion he was willing to prop up the seed of Moses and to point the people to the authority of Moses and to build a church on st. Peter so I just want you to respond to those ideas generally okay the true definition of religion I agree with you but in today's terminology if you say to somebody that you're religious they look at that from a negative light so I will go back to the old terminology so that we can fit it Jesus 100% was not religious in the sense of today's context he followed the commandments and the Torah explicitly otherwise he would have sent and he told us in Matthew 5 chapter 17 I have not come to do away with the Torah but I have come to fulfill it I have come to make it alive then the second half of that same paragraph is more important than the first half he says anyone who teaches the law of Moses and walks in those Commandments shall be greatest in the kingdom of heaven but whoever does not walk in them and does not teach them basically shall be least Jesus did not uplift the Pharisees he strongly condemned them because they taught things outside of the Torah they taught things and they added things and they remove things he even said that you focus on certain things but you completely avoid the weightier matters of the law Jesus came to restore the real law and the real interpretation that he wanted his followers to walk in on top of give them the holy spirit in order to do that the scriptures that I gave which I could give 50 more in the first a podcast that we did specifically says the heart of God in I Jesus would die on the cross so why did Jesus uplift the religion of what he gave through Moses and the prophets is because that's exactly what he wanted to do he did not want to uplift man's philosophies which there was a strong hellenization that occurred in Israel prior to the Lord coming you can read about that in the Seleucid kingdoms Antiochus Epiphanes right on down there was no prophet in the Land of Israel God had basically abandoned Israel in his representation and the rabbi's did everything they could to keep people involved in Judaism the Spirit of God did not live in the temples Arriba belt nor in the temple of Herod and Jesus said something right to the Pharisees into the leaders of Israel he said tear this temple down and I will rebuild it in three days and he was talking about himself but we know something very important Jesus would rebuild a new temple that did have the Holy Spirit and those men built that temple added all kinds of rituals and all kinds of laws and they tried to be extra clean extra holy very self-righteous and yet the Spirit of God was nowhere to be found in anything that they were doing and Jesus said that you are dead men's bones with whitewashed tombs and and and this is where I'm coming from today we have put so much focus on religion and traditions and the teachings of men but we have taken away the focus of the gifts of the Spirit tell me a priest that you know that's praying for people and they're raised from the dead tell me of somebody that you know that they have a healing ministry that everywhere they go they preach the gospel the love of God and people are being healed it's non-existent brother don't tell me about these Exorcist that they're doing here and they're we're talking about real powerful deliverance ministries that go in and the demons run the people are healed they're set free they're cast and they're propelled into the kingdom by the power of God you say let me show you I could give you dozens after dozens after dozens of ministries that have been documented by thousands of people that have been involved in this type of ministry and this type of setting I don't think you want to do battle with me because I've got tens of thousands of Saints well documented cases of miracles and conversions and right here in Montreal I've got the st. Joseph's oratory and st. Andre Bessette humble little doorman lacking education he was not even a priest he was he was a lowly humble servant of God a doorman and he was through the intercession of Saint Joseph he was healing tens and tens of thousands of people from the Northeast of North America you can read all about it but I go every week to the st. Joseph's oratory and I I can see the the crutches and I can see the testimonies and the plaques on the wall of people that were thanking st. Joseph's for the miraculous healings that they received and of course you can talk all of this up to preternatural demonic stuff if you want to but I believe firmly that it's the power of God and if you read the lives of the Saints you'll see the love of God that they had and that devotion and the simplicity and the naturalness of their lives and the beauty of their characters and how they lived in how they died for Jesus Christ it really is unbelievable I agree totally I believe there are great men in the Catholic Church down through history there's no doubt about it and I do believe that there are miracles in the Catholic Church all the way across the board around the world because the gift of salvation and the blood are are there for anyone I don't need a priest to pray for me to be healed but what I'm making a point is is that there are ministries that have had extraordinary proportions of deliverances in their ministry we're talking about within the last 250 years I have not heard of a Catholic ministry that has had mass revivals where people by the droves are being healed delivered set free people raised from the dead that doesn't mean that somebody in a church that prays and kneels at the altar or there's a layman that's in the congregation that prays for people and there's not miracles I believe that's everywhere because faith in Jesus is without repentance there were people who were healed and set free of demons that were not even saved but they were granted and grace because that's who God is it's only at the judgment that we're gonna see who was really in the church and who was out and Saint Agustin said that many that we thought were in the Catholic Church were actually outside of her borders and many that we thought by all appearances were outside of her borders actually were within her borders and were in fact Catholic whether they knew it or not so this is coming straight from a very highly revered Catholic saint and he's someone that's seen very well by even by Protestants to San Agustin do you believe that people that are outside of the Catholic Church are for example I'm you know I have different beliefs and all this but just put it in layman's terms are going to live with God forever are they going to be in heaven or do you believe specifically that only through the Catholic Church only through the administering of a particular Eucharist by a priest that's dressed up and doing a specific well I'm just saying a specific ritual that only through that means will they be in heaven there are two things you need to bear in mind one is that we are bound we humans are all bound by the obligations that God has given us to join his one church that he founded Jesus Christ did build a church and there is absolutely no possibility of salvation outside of that church now having said that God is not limited we are limited we have to obey but God is not limited by this and he can save anyone that he wants he could save a Satanist for no other reason than he he just wants to show his power and his glory and he can save a Satanist who is to all appearances was not repentant in the slightest and never received any sacrament certainly not worthily so there are two sides to that coin we have to seek the truth find the truth and worship the truth in a way that is worthy of God now in terms of the subtle distinction between Catholics and non-catholics Christians it's a teaching of the church that the church which Christ built subsists in the holy roman catholic church and what that means if you break it down and you analyze what is behind that word subsists in what you'll find out is that there are saving truths outside of the church which are intended to bring people into the fullness of communion with Rome and those saving elements are available everywhere outside of the church but most especially in the Eastern Orthodox churches and in certain Protestant churches now there are some that have strayed so far that they're not even considered Christians because they don't baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit if you're not a Trinitarian then you're not a Christian it's just a deal-breaker that's why I'd like to come back to that question on the Trinity with you because it is central it is of the greatest importance to me that you believe in the Trinity and that you're baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit so that you can have access to the saving truths of the Catholic Church outside of which there is absolutely no possibility of salvation God is a God of love and God does not put himself in a specific institution in which he demands all peoples whether they be African Chinese South American wherever God is not interested in specific one race of people that is heading up the authority one particular institution especially when there is significant absolutely ironclad evidence that that organization is not following the scriptures God is not going to put salvation in one box salvation is with his son and the entire New Testament and Old Testament prophecies all bring us to one teaching that God came from heaven and earth through his son died on that cross so that he could have a personal relationship with me it doesn't sound personal if I have to go and confess my sins through a man if I have to go and receive a specific Eucharist through a specific ritual that is neither in Scripture nor broken down in Scripture in such a way that is clear Jesus specifically said this he that believeth not and is not bapt I shall be damned he also says you know Jesus said in other passages that he would send his spirit and that he wants us to have the spirit it's very clear but it is not clear on any of the scripture Texas says if they don't keep the Eucharist they're out there are too many religious movements in history too many people that moved with God that say and know and believe that the Catholic Church is not the only faith it is definitely a very very difficult thing for a person to say it's this way or the highway especially when it doesn't align with scripture in so many facets but getting back to the Trinity I have never denied that there is a Father Son and Holy Spirit in the scriptures I have never denied that they're not the same spirit but I do deny that they aren't three persons three persons would constitute three different personalities it would constitute potentially three different beings and that I do not agree with I believe it God came in the form of his son or he came you know he sent His Word God is the word it says right in John 1:1 if you can't come to that conclusion that in the beginning was the word and the Word was with God and the Word was God they were synonymous one in the same and it became flesh and dwelt amongst us a very layman uneducated person can read that and come to the conclusion that God and who he came incarnated with are one in the same now I have relationships with all three I utilize all three to build my faith in the sense of what God wants me to learn and walk with and have relationships with but some people take it too far they don't want to follow the the laws of the Father they want the laws of Jesus and some people don't even work with the Holy Spirit I mean there's all kinds of teachings out there we have to follow the father and we have to follow the son and we have to follow the Holy Spirit as they are three-in-one in the sense of their application their form their manifestation just like me I'm a father I'm a son I'm a husband but they're all one but I think it's dangerous to teach three persons because now we can get into a philosophical debate on what their jobs are and and they may have different thoughts and different personalities and and and this is where I think that description doesn't necessarily fit the perfect bill but in a sense I believe I align very strongly in a lot of ways with the Catholic understanding and many of the Protestants understanding that there is a Trinity it's very clear in Scripture it's just the nature of the Trinity is up for interpretation at the end of my part - I just like my guest to talk about the short-term future in your own life what are you reading what are you excited about for the near term future please absolutely well in my personal studies I am currently studying a number of books and I am doing a massive study on the history of Israel and the history of the church we're doing that in our home school but I'm also taking it on a very scholarly level I'm also you know we we keep and follow the MOA deme cycle so we are celebrating Rosh Hashanah we're moving into yom teruah which is the Feast of Trumpets right on up to Yom Kippur and we remember these days we learn from them we want to understand what God has in store for us in these cycles and days just like when the church comes around to Easter or in the Hebraic calendar Passover we want to remember the death burial resurrection and how he was the Lamb of God from the beginning of the world through to his death on the cross in you know when he came actually for real so we study that and we try to learn from it and grow from it and allow God to redeem us and deliver us and to strengthen us we've had an awesome encounter with God the last few days us and our kids have been reading the Bible we've read some 10 chapters of the Bible prayed declared this a new year for the Lord a greater submission in him a greater deliverance in him but primarily the books that I read and study because I have been you know in university classes and other various things and they were good but they weren't very challenging for me I like to let the Spirit of God lead me I go into very deep studies I use a lot of sources and resources and I just you know let the Spirit of God lead me but I also read on the Torah schedule some people might you know read the Bible throughout the year you know in a 12 month or 30 day cycle but you can if you're gonna do the moa deemed cycle correctly according to the Hebrew calendar there are Torah portions and biblical scriptures that you read that go in sight with the holidays and that's only one portion of our study I will be doing a lot of other studies simultaneously we also you know go to service church on Sundays we also go to service on Saturdays with some of our local congregants we sometimes go to church on Wednesday we do different things in the community but we study God historically biblically and verse wise a lot in our homeschool program and so that's that's kind of where you know we're at I'm going to be going to the Land of Israel this next 12-month calendar and I went to the Vatican and saw the entire churches and basilica's and cathedrals and everything just a couple years ago very fascinating and I also went to England in the United Kingdom area and France saw all those glad I got to see Notre Dom before it burned and you know we just we got to see you know a lot of the you know historical church culture we do not deny or escape or throw away anything within the Catholic Church and I'm praying that God's people whether they're Catholic Protestant or not that they become in relationship with God because when you get to heaven he's not going to ask you what church you're part of he's going to say I know you or did I not did you keep my will did you love me did you have mercy you know did you do all those things it has nothing to do what church were part of I can promise you that and but I really respect what you're doing I pray it helps you grow and others and helps us open up our heart and mind to the Lord he is everything he gave us his all can't we do the same back can't we love him with all of our heart and sit at his feet that's all he wants he is so awesome of a teacher I learned one hundred to one when I sit at the feet of Jesus than I do taking 20 courses at college I can tell you that my wife tell you the same thing and almost everybody I know that is a student or disciple of Yeshua will say the same thing it's like heaven on earth when you sit down at his feet just say lord teach me and you begin to study the the sad thing is is I do know so many people that have never been filled of the Holy Spirit and they think they were because they said a prayer or they did a ritual and then they wonder why they don't have a love for God's Word why they don't have miracles or supernatural occurrences in their life or you know why they're suffering from so many different things and if they would just think for a moment that getting filled with the Holy Spirit isn't a one-time event it's a lifelong pursuit every year you have to be refilled and you have to ask God to keep your wine skin fresh and oiled and make sure that it doesn't grow cold and crack and leak and and and you know God is a never-ending pursuit it's not one-time events I know so many people that do a one-time baptism and you know they forget that baptism isn't a ritual it's a lifelong pledge to give your whole life to God and that is the important part of baptism it's not the act of water it's the commitment that you make No all you got to do is all you got to do is do is