CVS Live Guest - 2022-03-06 - Tom Mennier

Author Streamed Sunday March 6th, 2022

There are 57 episodes in the Guest:Solo series.

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CVS Live Guest - 2020-02-23 - Pykris

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CVS Live Guest - 2020-02-22 - Aidan Lisney

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CVS Live Guest - 2020-01-25 - Kalen R.

I met Tom through a mutual friend, Ivan Freud, who appeared as a guest on my podcast a few years ago. Tom is a musician who used to be an organist in the Anglican community here in Montr?al. His faith-journey has been very interesting.

CVS Live Guest - 2022-03-06 - Tom Mennier

Author Streamed January 11th, 2020



These transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
make sure you get the spelling m-e-n-n-i-e-r yeah two ends yeah okay yeah so [Music] i think we're live we're live i'm here with tom tom menier how are you doing great how are you good to see you dave very well yeah good to see you uh we've only met once right in real life that is that is true yeah so uh you're a friend of a friend of mine one of my guests ivan freud maybe we can touch on that at the end of the interview but for now uh i don't know you people don't know you so maybe just go right back to the beginning of your faith journey and talk a little bit about your earliest sort of notions that there might be this thing called god and this thing called religion and how that affected you as a very young child even before the age of reason that's good and then if you can go through sort of the story up until today at your own rate touching on those points that you think are uh most pertinent and that you're willing to share with me and my audience please that sounds like a book worth okay starting with my sense of god from a very early age um my mother was a catholic okay uh very catholic family my my grandmother was kind of like the the matriarch of the family really she was uh everyone's favorite and uh um so i was raised catholic but my father was an atheist okay and um my mother was probably because of her relatively strict catholic upbringing she probably consciously or unconsciously decided to be a little less hard on her own children so uh we were never forced to go to church okay now my mother like her mother like my grandmother uh was a church organist so every sunday my mother had to go to church to play the service the mass and uh and it was kind of like okay do you want to come you know to church with me and help me in the choir or whatever and um when we were quite young we didn't really have a choice we were just piled in the car and we went and then we started like getting shifty in our seats and causing trouble she's like well do you want to come he's like well no okay dear you know so we weren't forced to go to church okay um but uh we did end up going infrequently you know now and then we would just pile in and especially for easter and christmas and special masses but i do remember as a very young person uh loving the smell of the church uh the the general uh mystery of the uh you know the whole aura of the the big cathedral she the first church she uh worked at when i was you know from toddler on up until age seven or eight i believe um was a pretty big uh cathedral catholic and uh montreal uh insane i was born and raised in saint john new brunswick okay okay so this church was a stellar morris which was at the end of the causeway uh near the harbor and uh a big you know not huge but it was uh you know the the the organ was way up in the loft and it was a pretty big loft and a big big organ made a lot of sound and uh so i remember uh liking the vibe and i always loved music so i didn't mind singing in the choir but like any youngster i got fidgety with the long service and the sermons and too young to really understand what was going on plus it was optional i didn't really have to be there so uh you know in other words religion wasn't sort of shoved down our throat okay um and my like i said my father was an atheist so within my own household we had you know these kind of two world views um present and um they never fought over those things they fought over little things uh but um as i but you know i always had a sense of the uh well i wouldn't have used the word then but i had always had a sense of what i think is the supernatural you know uh i was sensitive to a fault as a youngster and i was a dreamer i was always uh reprimanded for my tendency to daydream okay i would i was the type that would just sort of wander off and talk to the birds and have the whole neighborhood worried where the hell's tommy you know and adults scouring the neighborhood sometimes the cops getting involved looking for a missing child and i was just across the street behind the shrubs on the neighbor's lawn talking to the robins or whatever um you know i was a bit of a weirdo um so uh i think that i always had this kind of sense of something more than than the five senses pick up even though i couldn't articulate it and wasn't really conscious of it myself it's like i just thought this is the most natural thing to do is to daydream and explore the mind and talk to the animals i mean why not so uh but as as time went on and i made my way in the world i think i sort of veered more towards well because my interest in in big things naturally led me to philosophy so i became sort of a natural philosopher i started reading a lot it was a bookworm because i was sensitive i i had a hard time in the social realm of life so i was alone a lot i found piano quite early i started learning and practicing piano mostly self-taught even though my mother was a piano teacher because it just sort of seemed like a place where i could just escape and and then same thing with books okay uh so and then uh through philosophy and my general uh discomfort with the world around me like none of this makes sense you know um i uh i think i kind of fell into a kind of uh leftist kind of direction and flirting with atheism okay this is going into my teen hood and um and like i say i was a loner um i still am um at first this was painful uh but then i learned to uh actually embrace it but that's another story but uh so you know uh speaking to my lone lone wolf kind of personality i would uh take off a lot on my own one time one summer when i was about 19 i took a long bike trip by myself a camping trip and i just uh explored the rivers in saint john where i'm from this is where two mighty rivers meet the cannabis cases and the st john river so we were we lived at the outskirts of town in our backyards was a forest we were the last street at the top of a a hill development so below us was just street after street of residence but we were the last street at the top so our backyard was basically miles of forest um and then also since we were just at the we were the last suburb before the highway uh even on bike i was like 15 minutes away from the river and from the country so um so i went off alone and before i went i went to the library downtown and i got out this thick book and you know i can't remember the author there's many books like it sort of like the you know the religions of the world okay and um i got that out and brought it with me on my camping trip it was like six or seven hundred pages long and it was just basically a comparative anthology of all the major religions known religions in the world and uh the general uh direction this book took was digging up all the connecting threads that unify the major religions and then and then going into the peripheral differences and uh but with the aim of just sort of like seeing seeing how they all kind of uh direct uh uh move towards a sort of a unifi unifying themes you know principles and whatnot uh i read the whole thing i think it was a way for two weeks you know i would set up my tent and build my fire pit and uh get all the work done and then spend basically the whole day reading with swimming breaks by the end of the two weeks i pretty much read the whole thing that changed my life okay um it didn't turn me into a catholic or uh steered me towards any particular religion but what it did was it convinced me that there is um there is a very real and inescapable moral law that permeates not just the human world but all of existence and um so that stuck with me okay uh but then i couldn't find satisfaction when i tried to kind of uh find which path to take as far as committing to any particular faith uh and that's because well like my mother i became a church organist as well and at university i met i made many friends that uh well of all types atheist agnostic and religious people of all different cultures and um i found that uh i would always i mean i've always been argumentative i mean in the in the sense of the good tradition of debate okay um and i found it very very difficult throughout my life to find good debating partners you know without things quickly becoming personal or people taking offense or whatever you know i just like exploring ideas i like to challenge people and i like to be challenged as well uh and as you know it's very hard to let down your guard um a lot of people have a hard time to just sort of getting out of their comfort zone and having a full examination of their position and i'm not guiltless in that regard although i've always left debate um so um and as as i got older i i went through university and uh i experienced poverty coming out of my training thinking i would be a wildly successful star and then discovering just how damn hard it is to make it as a musician um i go for i went further into leftist politics okay a critique of the structure of the world capitalism and all that war all this stuff and you know this is a very big temptation i think for young people especially young intelligent people because i don't think there's anyone on the planet that doesn't wish for a better world and uh and when you have a certain idea of how the world functions and then you're disillusioned and find out that it doesn't function that way at all it's uh a lot of platitudes and promises but we don't actually uh live up to them and uh you start to get this disillusioned you start to get frustrated and you start to get angry and you start to think that well you know i'm young and i see through all this bull crap i can i can make a difference i can help save the world okay i look right now as you know we're in a very heated cultural war and uh people are yelling at each other and and uh you know the right whatever that is because it's lost all its definition are uh castigating and ridiculing the left and the left whatever that is because it too has lost all its meeting is um doing the same to their opponents and uh and i got uh sucked into that whole heat for many years through my 30s especially until i you know we don't have all afternoon so i won't go into detail but i'll just say i i met a certain uh number of personal crises that uh that sort of forced me to uh change my behavior or look at things differently i had to do something to get myself out of the hole that i dug and uh one of the things that i decided to do and this was after years of a lot of alcohol and drugs uh i was you know bloated like elvis and all that i i did a radical cleanse and i quit all my habits smoking drinking drugs all that cold turkey which i didn't think i would do that wasn't the plan the plan was just to cleanse and i i was hooked up very serendipitously through a friend of a friend who knew this uh colonist um you know what that is yeah uh animus what uh yeah well it's more than enemas colonic irrigation is basically it's really quite radical they they they put a tube in your uh derriere and they pump you full of like like gallons of it's a machine and it's just this flow it goes right into you it's like a lot of water it's not just an enemy comes out your mouth that's what it felt like but no uh so it just keeps going on a loop it floods in and then it empties you out and it goes in and the session lasts an hour and i did that every single day for seven days on a juice fast purify juice fast no pulp uh for seven days uh after the first treatment i had no desire for cigarettes i didn't see that coming i thought okay i'll cut way down you know but after that first session i had absolutely no desire none wow and walking on the sidewalk someone was walking ahead of me smoking it it was like it was the most foul stench there was nothing attractive to me at all about it uh and of course by the end of the week i had lost something like 30 pounds and all my uh old desires were gone so i thought wow i'm going to keep this up you know not not that but seven days was enough of that part um but i did keep regular fasts up every every other week i would do three day fasts and uh and uh i i stayed clean for a good 10 12 years now i drink not nearly i'm not a heavy drinker and i don't depend on it but i'm back to that i smoke uh i wish i could have quit that forever but um you know it didn't perfectly clear uh clear me of that stuff but uh it's completely in control now and i i appreciate what pleasure is without ruining it by over indulgence so uh but the point is is that uh more than uh just the physical effect of that cleanse uh did wild things to my mind okay so i do believe there is a corrallery to the physical with the mental there's mental toxins there's spiritual toxins and uh they're connected uh so when one's cleaned out the other starts to and all your demons come out and it's painful at first you know your skin breaks into welts well your mind starts uh screaming demons you know demons come and i had a sort of like brace myself and endure that and when i came out at the end of it i had a completely different perspective um i'm so grateful for that because it wasn't it wasn't an intellectual change you know it was actually um because of that cleanse uh things happened to me that i never imagined would happen to me so it wasn't arrived at intellectually it was a process of clearing a lot of junk the junk was just cleared away and then i had to rebuild myself which is no easy task because i felt who am i what am i you know i couldn't go back to the old ways i didn't even have a desire to but then now what uh so um i uh i went to see a psychologist okay the first time really that i thought i i never thought i would do that um but i did it wasn't that i was suicidal or anything like this but i knew that i needed help i needed perspective and i didn't feel right i felt better that i wasn't that old other person that i was but then i had i wasn't sure what to replace it with so i went to see a psychologist and he was really amazing okay uh he was actually a psychiatrist a psycho analyst slash psychiatrist and um he was recommended to me by a friend so it's like i started to think it's like what what were the odds that i would meet this friend of a friend that got me into the colonics exactly at that time when i needed it because like i say i was bloated like elvis i thought i was going to die if i keep going this way but i didn't have the strength to just do it on my own and then out of the sky came this serendipitous connection with this particular type of uh healing that was lucky and then just when i needed the kind of help mentally my friend hooks me up with this particular doctor who was fantastic he didn't try to treat me with drugs he suggested things and i said no i i like these talks let's just keep going and he totally respected that but what i learned most from him was that he taught me the difference between guilt and shame in a way that i understood it for the first time and and the reason why this is so important is because since i can remember i've i've i remember i'd argue with people anti-christian people uh that took that nietzschean kind of notion that uh christianity is a slave morality and uh repressive in the whole thing and makes you feel ashamed of your sins and who needs shame you know so when i went to see this particular psychoanalyst and he so clearly made me understand the difference between guilt and shame which is basically shame is um is a condition that is often imposed from the outside uh you feel uh weak and ashamed yourself that you can't live up to someone else's expectations you don't know the way out unless you follow the tyrants dictates if you do this and this and this you'll be all right and you can't do that naturally because you can't reason your way into it but you know if you don't you're perpetually a shameful thing okay there's no out for shame it's an addiction too you start to love your shame it's like you know false humility false compassion comes out of sort of unresolved uh inner shame whereas guilt is um there's there's sort of like you know jurisdic jurisprudence has a sort of corrallery to that guilt is just basically admitting guilt and taking full responsibility for it uh paying the punishment and making amends uh when when you're guilty or when you're when you come into self awareness of your guilt then you can you can actually articulate and pronounce it yes i am guilty of this and that and the other thing and uh and then it puts you in in the power uh to acknowledge it to make amends and to make appropriate changes that's not that doesn't come from the outside that comes from you you step forward and say guilty and then you can change it's not the same as shame at all and um so we went into my deeper psyche and my past and uh my father and i didn't have much of a relationship uh i i was kind of afraid of him he was uh he had a temper i didn't understand him i would avoid him and uh and he forced me to look into that and uh with his help and i only saw him for maybe five sessions okay and i stopped when i basically i he gave me everything i needed the difference between guilt and shame and uh understanding my father coming to know him for the first time here we are something like six or seven years after he died um and truly forgiving him because you can't forgive anything without understanding you can't you can't know or love saying anything or anyone or forgive them until you truly understand them and i achieved that and i know this is pretty personal stuff but um but it was from that point on that just like in the matter that i stopped smoking and drinking i stopped being a leftist and i didn't know what happened to me i didn't arrive there intellectually and i didn't even know i had stopped being a leftist until i went back and hung out with my leftist friends and those same old arguments would come up and i would like what the heck are you guys run about and at first i thought they changed and the world's gone crazier and and uh and no they they didn't it's like wait i used to think that way and so uh now i did this is this is very complicated stuff and a lot of people don't have a pa you know the kind of patience and humility to dig through this stuff because you know our tendency is to really sort of you know we we get drawn into a team a frame of mind and frame of references and uh we become very uh protective of it um so and and then you know the the the kind of binary teams left right you know is a prime example of that um and i got to realizing that it's not this and not that but it's this and that that the the the disunion between the various world views are not because they're opposite but because those points at which they can connect are severed okay so i still love my leftist friends dearly of course you know it's it's not um um and and i don't consider myself right wing it's not that either it's uh it's more you know to come to a point where you realize wait there's something going back to what i learned or intuitively sense from a very early age that there is an overriding transcendent eternal moral law that governs all existence and every one of us in our own way unconsciously or not is striving to align with that and the hardest thing about being alive is that it's not perfect and not only is it not perfect but it can be downright awful and and then we presume to think that well because we see what's wrong with the world we can set it right but it's never that simple and we're all we most often get it wrong we go into any number of vain pursuits to set things right because we're so confident that we see what's wrong well it's easy easy peasy easy thing in the world to see what's wrong especially in the world and in others but do we see what's right do we see what's true do we see what's true about ourselves and the reason why the youth are so easily drag netted into you know herded into this leftist mentality is because all the focus is outside of them it's all on the world and what's wrong with the world precisely at that time in your development where you have to develop the habit of self-examination because if you don't get the discipline and the help towards that end early in life because it's a lifelong battle self-awareness and it has to start young and if the the teaching of this age parents teachers the media is training our young people to always externalize and look out at the world at their political opposition they're wrong that's wrong the world's wrong i can fix it they they don't even realize it but they've uh abrogated the fundamental responsibility of being alive is to know thyself know thyself know thyself and to solve evil you cannot begin until you've examined and come to realize the evil that's inside of you that's inside of every one of us and to understand what that is and plato said famously nothing can harm the good man nothing nothing can harm the good man exactly and you know the whole you know the victimhood thing this you know is playing out so strongly and encouraged by the media and new education whatever um the good person or the godly person is never the victim or to be clear uh they're never they never uh succumb to victimhood yeah okay um but they certainly can be the victim they can be victims of every form of oppression and torture man-made and natural but they will not succumb to victimhood that is the holy standard and we're all tempted to do that and even the saints fell into that temptation the difference is knowing the difference between right and wrong and catching yourself and feeling terrible about it and that it comes back to the guilt and shame thing uh when you're when you come to it through self-awareness it's not shame it's remorse it's a full giving up of your guilt and then that sets you on the road through self volition and self awareness to harness the inner strength and the faith to correct oneself but shame is you don't know where it's coming from it's coming from the outside you don't understand the meaning of it it's coming from the outside you don't know what to do with it you want to try to fit in with the world but you're insecure uh you can't heal it and and then you go to the same sources that made you feel shameful thinking that they've got the answer and they don't have the answer but so is the difference between repression and self-control and freud came along and made everything about sex and uh the general modern psychological uh tenor of our times is is pretty much in line with it and it what it did was it it blurred the distinction between repression and self-control meaning if we just uh loosen up all the the walls of our prison and allow ourselves to fulfill our sexual needs then uh the idea was that uh this being the source of our neurosis uh with sexual freedom and liberation would come a less neurotic world and therefore a more enlightened and peaceful world how's that working out for the world it's uh licensed they've substituted license for freedom that's right because they they blurred the distinction between repression and self-control okay so basically getting mastery over oneself is a self-volitional thing it's something that comes from with inside and it's self volitional it's willed and uh based on knowledge and understanding and experience it's like well i did this and this and i let myself go and now look at the mess i'm in and then you learn and then you you you learn the the age-old uh uh you know path of of of not wisdom because wisdom is a big word but let's say the underlying structure okay that gives one hope to actually at least be on the path towards wisdom is self-control delayed gratification uh no one can do that for you uh it can't be authentic unless it comes in uh from from within through self-awareness and it also connects deeply with the law of love okay love is absolutely meaningless or full-on counterfeit without the sacrifice without the sacrificial element and without the sincere inner uh giving up no one can love for you you know no one can do the dirty work and as soon as you uh love is is free will and love are one thing that's what free will means it gives love and truth and faith and all these things have to be tested and this is not an intellectual thing it's not it's not something that's like okay well you think you have the truth i'm gonna test you it doesn't work that way it's written into nature itself okay it's written into actual reality itself as soon as you make a commitment it's going to be tested as soon as you give yourself up to love it's going to be tested just by the inner workings of reality itself and if you don't understand that you're going to give up really quick because the sweet fruit and the pleasure of the a gaped state of early sort of falling in love you know you want that to go on forever and it's not going to go on forever it's going to be tested and you thought it was always going to be this is what love is honeymoon yeah the honeymoon period is over and then you give up and look at the divorce rates like a j curve you know it comes down to this uh you know the we're in a materialist paradigm that sort of gave up the um the story they threw out the bath uh water with the baby uh in their attack on religion uh that um you know sci even you know i don't know if i'm rambling i'm moving all these threads are keep going um even you know brett weinstein who i i don't know if you've heard of him dark horse podcast okay the weinstein brothers his brothers eric they're both academics and they're they're uh rebels and in the good way they've sort of exposed a lot of the corruption in academia and okay correct in the peer peer review program james lisney and all that james uh uh i don't know if they know each other but they touch on similar things you know i have quite a lot of respect for them but even even brett weinstein dark horse podcast because he's a scientist okay um uh i don't believe he's a believer he certainly doesn't this sort of revealed to me that he certainly isn't regardless of all his amazing work and insights into the state of academia and and so many things i agree with he said the most absurd thing recently a few months ago he said science is the highest form of knowledge the natural sciences yes oh science uncovering the nature he said that's the the highest form of knowledge it's my fourth on my it's fourth in my hierarchy natural science you're good yeah i have god theology philosophy and natural science exactly okay now what would make him say something so absurd and i thought about this scientism scientism about you know but the thing is i don't think that he's really uh roped into scientism he's not at least not explicitly because he he's uh like i say i agree with so many things he's doing and i and i'm behind his his battle with the corruption and academia uh but because he uh because his beef basically is is right now science is is being done wrong science has become corrupted by money uh by a corrupt uh peer review process and a corrupt academia and he wants to write it he wants to get back to pure science so that's his beef and if we can get to that then you know the world would be a much better place because after all science is the highest form of knowledge okay well okay so the way i would um i would try to uh redress that is um the uh at the very beginning of humanity if we go into the the real uh deep meaning of genesis okay we didn't have science in fact we didn't have intellect okay we were uh pure and in line with god's creation until we fell when we ate the forbidden fruit and we attained the power of knowledge knowledge of what good and evil and through that power we basically walked right into the realm of satan and his pride where if we're not careful and we won't be because knowledge is incredibly powerful and we are living in a temporal physical realm and we are no longer in heaven inevitably we're going to invert and turn good into evil and evil into good this was the omega sorry the alpha of our existence the alpha of consciousness came before the fall and then there was our beginning uh relationship in the temporal realm with knowledge and then the omega is total consciousness and reuniting with with god and science came much later okay and science could not have happened shouldn't couldn't have come into existence to begin with unless we had this gift of human consciousness that logos is uh is something that is innate and written through the fabric of the universe uh that consciousness is our link to a transcendent logos okay and uh we came to a point where we realized hey you know the more we look at nature and ourselves and the universe the more uh it seems that this is discernible that this actually we can we can discern this we can figure out how all this stuff works because it is logical it's not just random twinklies in the sky but there's a there's an awesome order and meaning to the universe and we can we can figure this out and so through uh a process uh we developed a scientific method okay that couldn't have happened without consciousness that came first and then once we get that power because science is very very powerful and it's very good at what it does and uh keeps getting better at what it does with the advancement of tools and technology and so on um there's this pesky little problem that we discover certain properties chemical biological cosmological and and through science we can build tools to manipulate our surroundings and our interaction with the world through this knowledge so what we come to is the problem that everything that we do with our knowledge no matter how scientifically sophisticated is this knowledge and proven is this knowledge everything we do with it is no longer science everything we do with it everything we think about it is moral is theological okay we have this power we figured out how this chemical works with that chemical and then we put this do together and then we can build this machine we can do this this that and the other thing well should we do it why are we doing it the action uh and the application of our knowledge is no longer science even though it's scientifically it's like yo if we do this we get this outcome but uh but as soon as we make it an actual uh action every action everything we do has to be weighed on the scales of moral justice in other words just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do it because every action ultimately is measured by the scales of the moral universe so this is where science goes off the rails and it's not the problem with science is the problem with men just like when religion goes off the rails it's not the problem with the religion it's it's pro it's a problem with the students or the practitioners and so um now i put all this stuff together over years okay through through my experience of of coming in and out of different philosophies and ideas and my various painful life experiences and coming in and out of it again whatever but what i'm pointing to is basically the long and slow process by which i became a catholic okay because um the uh the conviction came to me that uh that good and evil are very very real and they are not uh small g and small e evil they are capital g and capital e and both directions are infinite okay in other words good you know when we think of good well what's good you know what's beauty you know what's truth what's abu what's beautiful art what's beautiful music all of that stuff well when you meditate on it you realize that there's no end to how to just how good and beautiful and true it can be there's no end to just how real real can be and holiness can be and at the same time the same thing applies to evil there's no end to it it is bottomless okay there's small e evil and there's capital e evil they're infinite at both ends there is a there is a point in the middle that represents two paths and one path will start you in the process of going towards ultimate evil and much of the travel much of the journey will be unconscious you'll be unaware it would seem like the greatest idea uh you're not getting hurt um it seems to be working you know profits are up and so on and so forth um you have a lot of dogs in the race you know so our life experience is that you know the more worldly we are the more dogs we have in the race okay so we're betting on those horses on those dogs and and so we naturally blind ourselves to the fundamentals that will get in the way of those investments we're not blind to the to the peripherals and the minor things that get in the way because we're very invested in the in the outcome so we think okay well we'll just change this a little bit to protect the investments but we're utterly blind we have a an infinite blind spot to the fundamental underpinning structures of our world reality that in the long term will cause the whole card house of cards to collapse and our whole castle on sand to be wiped right out 10 years down the line 50 years down the line always into the future and when it happens it's too late so there's the those two distinct paths one the path of love and to god is sacrificial and it's uh you know the sufis had um you know i think was a sufis uh be in this world but not of it and uh and john in the gospels uh do not make friends with this world which is often misunderstood it just means basically it's just it's the same thing be in this world but not of it because there's no and george carlin uh the atheist comedian uh also uh put it right i think it was an interview that he did uh where he um he basically said well the reason why i see through all the bull crap is because i'm not invested i don't give a flying f you know uh he basically said the same thing he's not he's not overly invested in this this this world so he can sit back and just sort of like you know from from a distance and above you know it's like what the hell is going on here disinterested disinterested which is really the the the basis of the of uh uh well it's it's the basic ethic of scholarship you know which should that's exactly it should be it ought to be so anyway i've rambled quite a lot you've rambled quite nicely wow um can you tell me the exact moment when you decided okay i'm an adult now and i yes i am going to embrace my catholic faith with my childhood what was that moment do you remember the moment do i remember the moment um well you must remember the moment you went back to confession the confessional that's a pretty concrete moment on your calendar okay now i have to be clear i haven't i i consider myself a converted catholic i was baptized and confirmed in my childhood okay um i i consider myself a i hate the term born again but let's say reconverted catholicism but that doesn't mean that i went to the confessional booth okay i visited a few churches okay okay uh yeah i know so we're going to book you an appointment soon that's your next stop i would love to but let me explain this okay i would like to i i want to explain why okay as i said i was a church organist uh for many years okay this this was a big process of my eventual uh reversion to catholicism when i first started playing the organ at the church i wasn't going there as a christian okay at that point i was like i said on the fence skirting between agnosticism and atheism it was just a job i learned the skill from my mother uh it was an easy job once a week on sunday i never worked in a catholic church i don't have the footwork at the pipe org and i i'm a piano player and and a half decent two manual organ player um so i i worked at anglican churches at one point a lutheran church etc mostly protestant churches from the time i started at mcgill at age right up until what three years ago and i'm in well into my 50s now so you know a good 30 years plus i went every sunday and did this easy job i'm a good sight reader no prep just get up sunday mornings a couple of hours later i'm home and have my rents paid okay but what happened in that process is that uh i as i said i'm a natural debater and uh i try to keep my uh bs detector on at all times i became more and more uh annoyed with uh what was going on in the church what was the general direction of the ministry and the manner of their sermonizing and uh and i was critical purely from an intellectual point of view not not from a christian point of view because i wasn't a christian i just said this is this is so lame it's so lukewarm and it's so lacking in muscle and fire it doesn't ring true okay and uh because i was too lazy to actually explore the scripture for many years i just assumed that well you know christianity is it's a comfort for some but it's you know it's not for me okay but um as the years went by he played church every sunday you get to know the liturgy and you get to know a lot of the bible because every week they read you know at least two readings and a gospel before the sermon so after years and years you know i became just by sitting there every week uh quite acquainted with uh with a lot of scripture uh until some of us sort of i started to see the disconnect between what they were how they were sermonizing and what was actually in scripture so that's when i started to like go home after well first before going home at coffee hour i would start getting into little debates with the priest himself it's like well what did you mean when you know and um i quickly discerned what a good priest is and what a bad priest is the good priest would be willing to uh to enter into that discussion you know obviously uh you're you're a shepherd and one of your flock is confused you'll do whatever you can to help them understand as opposed to a bad priest who gets quite egoistic and defensive and it's like that's not what i meant at all i mean or uh well that's your opinion or or such things like this and without actually giving me anything to chew on uh so uh so i would end up going home after the like more and more as the years went by and do some homework i would get out the bible and i would and i'd have my church bulletin from that week with me you know okay so john chapter blah blah blah look it up and then i would read the whole chapter just to make sure i had the right context and i started to get quite moved because um i'm reading things now as a 30-something well now we're going into my 40s now okay this is after my cleansing with life experience and having learned a lot and read a lot and thought about a lot of things and experienced a lot of things reading things that would have not made sense to me in my 20s and especially in my childhood for the first time in my life in my 40s these words from scripture are flying off the page and stinging me the meaning started to just lift off the page and hit me like a ton of bricks and i started to see more clearly just where the ministry was going wrong and all of this it's it turns out was was prophesied from the very birth of the church that um that the the world would be uh the church would be taken over by by ravenous wolves um and and then to be clear they're not ravenous wolves in the in the literal sense a lot of them don't even know what they're doing but what they are doing is they're making friends with the world and because uh religion has suffered especially in the age of technology and science numbers are down they're trying to fill bums and seats as they say and they're trying to appeal to the world and so like an insecure school child they're like trying to like oh well how can i how can i be everyone's friend and make everyone happy and get get people on my side and how can i get people into my organization and how can we get our coffers back out of the red so to speak so this is uh i think a lot of it's done unconsciously a lot of it has to do with the the um i think the lowering standards and and the theology schools etc but getting back to my my reversion so i did go to um to a number of churches not too far from my house i was my wife has a catholic it's a catholic family um i checked out their church i got privy to their worldview and uh i have to say that it's infected the catholic church as well it's not just the protestants um and uh i i do hope to find a truly catholic church with an authentic um a devoted non-apostate shepherd and in this world i'm i'm afraid to say i hope i don't burn in hell for saying it i'm going to be completely wrong but it seems to me that uh that the the catholic church isn't in in big trouble okay i did find one person accidentally on youtube father mark goring yeah in ottawa okay saint mary's inaudible yeah yeah yeah now um i would love to visit that church i haven't been able to get out of montreal for a while but as soon as i get a chance i'm going to go to ottawa and i would like to meet him and i would like to go to his his mass there's an example of the kind of church i'm looking for they're very hard to find now yeah yeah because it takes a lot you know because it takes a heck of a lot of courage okay to proclaim the gospel unadulterated and to apply it to the evils of our time it takes a lot of courage because uh we and again this was prophesied and timothy i believe uh that there will come a time when uh you know people will be so easily offended and uh daughters will be turned against mothers and sons against fathers and neighbor against neighbor and uh getting to the point where everyone will be walking on eggshells and terrified of just speaking spontaneously from the heart because any little thing can offend this that the other and there's vigilante mobs everywhere and plus they're trying to increase their business because numbers are depleting in the churches and a lot of it's unconscious i think but still i i don't see that as fully a good good excuse because anyone who has the gonads to enter priesthood you would think we'll be doing it out of a love of the holy gospel and be well trained not just in their knowledge and understanding of the gospel but to be tested for the kind of character a good shepherd is that is required of a good shepherd courage honesty and when everything goes chaotic and the world is ending who do we turn to for truth and strength who do we turn to who's not afraid of persecution and who will lay their life down for us as christ laid himself down for the world a good shepherd they're hard to find they're hard to find i'll be honest with you i was very disappointed when i converted in 2009 and i thought oh there's this religion where they worship the truth and the true god and wow it's going to be amazing but i might my experience was disappointment after disappointment and i was physically assaulted in a church uh because i went in without a vax passport at st joseph's oratory uh i found the second time i went in i got assaulted uh when i got assaulted the first time they didn't assault me they just called the cops and threw me out but the second time they actually physically assaulted me but at that second time i found a priest that i'd known for years and i said oh thank god i found you because uh the security's coming they're gonna throw me out and he's like oh what's going on what's going on but then the security game came and threw me out and he just put his blinders on and he just ignored me and i phoned him the next day i said are we friends yes or no oh yeah yeah yeah we're friends we're friends i said then why didn't you help me when i came to you for help why didn't you talk to me oh because i have no authority i'm just a priest i have no authority oh my god i'm just a priest just a priest well i i swear to god if he had been a holy priest of god he would have said to the security guard hold on one moment let's i know this man let's talk let's see that's right you know he has the authority if he wants to assume the authority and i don't want to disparage this this poor man's character but i've known him for years and we've had many discussions he's a moral theologian he used to teach uh at seminary uh he's a thomas aquinas he knows back and forth but when it came when he was tested uh he just crumbled he crumbled you know so that time there were six cops that came and took me out and i still have a bruise on my leg a bump on my shin from where i was tossed onto the concrete outside and he had the security guard had his knee on my chest so there's nothing but disappointment knee on your chest yeah yeah yeah as an idf there were people there were people videoing and i've been looking on youtube to try to find the footage i said save this footage and i want to see it but i still have the name of the uh two security guards here i don't think you're gonna see it but um everyone keeps telling me you gotta you've gotta pursue this you've gotta press charges against the security guards maybe i will just to make a point but uh i'm banned for life from my favorite chapel which is saint uh joseph's oratory uh i used to go there uh quite frequently it would take me an hour to bike there in the winter you know but i would go there that's why i was disappointed when they when they wouldn't let me in because of the vaxxed passport but i had spoken to our bishop our archbishop christian lepin uh multiple times and he always assured me you'll never be turned away from a church because of your vac status you'll never be denied the sacraments because of your back status and then uh lo and behold uh they imposed the vax passport on the church yeah yeah so well little did they know when they made that promise it was like well they will never bring the passport to the church yeah and then they did yeah it's like oh well uh i have to change my mind but we have to follow authority because yeah yeah so covent has really oh it's a terrible story um so just to just let you know i i i have met a lot of priests many of them don't believe in the true presence and the eucharist many of them don't believe in uh the sanctity of marriage many of them don't believe the teachings on sexual morality many of them don't believe all kinds of things and it's just one disappointment after the next but i've met a couple of i'm sure i've met many good priests i just i'm always suspicious i'm always very suspicious and i sort of assume that they're uh wolves until i have a lot of experience with them and i can sort of start to build trust but there's one organization called the uh priestly fraternity of saint peter and there's a church at water market that i started going to um they are uh more conservative i guess you could say and they do the traditional latin mass and stuff like that which i'm not into but um you know i don't really want to learn latin at this late stage of life but they're very conservative very open-minded and that sort of thing with uh they put they put they're not in agreement at all very vocal about not being in agreement with uh the church caving to civil authorities yeah right like i mean we should their their number one danger for humans is not covet the number one danger for humans is dying in a state of mortal sin and going to hell right so that trumps any other concern right if you're if you're if you're a pastor like you were saying you're a shepherd of the flock your number one concern is the eternal soul not the cold and flu symptoms right exactly exactly and the uh covet has really brought into sharp relief the um the fundamental uh problem at the root of the zeitgeist of our times okay the uh first of all it's terrible science we're told to follow the science excuse me um again getting back to what i was saying about science is knowledge but action is moral and when and so you know mass lockdowns of the healthy is not scientific and uh suppression of potential treatments outside of vaccination is not scientific uh rushing to a uh a rushed and let's face it experimental new form of vaccine to the worldwide population one-size-fits-all before actually doing rigorous battle with uh uh the knowledge available figuring it out what can we do to alleviate symptoms what can we do to bring down the death rate which by the way is very low the media pumps it up uh it's been said over and over again uh even by the crooks themselves have admitted that it has a very high survival survivability rate klaus schwab's on the record in his book uh cover 19 and the great reset is saying it's the least deadly pandemic in 2000 years yeah well and it's not a pandemic they've changed the meaning of pandemic pandemic used to mean uh widespread uh deaths why it's dangerous etc uh whereas this is more of an endemic thing like the flu or the cold uh it doesn't meet the the uh uh distinct definition of pandemic and we could go on and on but i don't want to get uh bogged into the detail kova but what we could draw from that is that um the the the the uh the um what this has really shown to me and i'm sure you and many other people of uh of our line of thinking and i don't want to call it a line of thinking it's just we're out we're outside looking in i think that it's something that anyone can see if they just get the courage to look at see what's going what's really going on and that that is that you know at what cost are we willing okay to pay for a safe world and how safe do you want to make it this is one of the things that i i've i've been saying since the beginning of the pandemic to anyone who would listen to me because it it ties into not only with covet but a lot of the modern ideologies that are running rampant uh throughout society today and that are encouraged by the media uh you know uh sexism racism homophobia bigotry all these things that they want to stamp out safe space we need to save space for everything how safe do you want how perfect do you want the world to be you know how first of all how bad is the problem that you claim to be uh fighting against how bad the is the problem really but also how perfect in your image do you want the world to be let me tell you okay there's only one way that you get your dream and that is kill everyone and start over again and don't don't that's the communist way that's the question we couldn't underestimate the murder that does uh that does grow in the heart of people that are so taken in even if they don't know it but but my answer to that is that they can get their wish um uh by one way only and that is perfect tyranny okay if you want a perfect world where there's no ignorance and no pain and no sexism and no murder no one's offended no one's offended by your jokes and no disease and on and on and on uh there is one way and good news folks we have the technology and the means to do it so that's the good news your dream is around the corner and it's and it equals perfect tyranny okay and the life of the faithful is quite a different uh bird altogether um it it acknowledges not only the imperfection of the world but the imperfection of oneself okay and the um when christ said bear your cross what he meant by that was that bear your own guilt your own pain your own shortcomings your own struggle bear it and be brave and god will grant you grace the opposite of that which is the way of evil is to get others to bear your cross for you and to expect others to bear your cross for you and this is exactly what we're seeing running rampant in so many modern assumptions uh this kind of a complete un binding of the principles of love and personal responsibility faith courage stoicism uh and and the very you know the fundamentals underpinning structure of of the path of wisdom itself and wisdom basically is a vision of the whole truth okay um and so when when someone says um uh science is the highest form of knowledge the reason why it's so absurd is because uh the physical uh reality of our universe uh and the utilitarian mechanisms of of our um immediate life is such a separate and such a specialized uh particular branch and even realm of knowledge um there's no way you can find proper use of it when it's disconnected so extremely from the whole wisdom is to take in the whole picture uh and and you know to see outside and beyond yourself and be even beyond space and time you know it's to take in the whole thing and to uh act accordingly it's like okay well this and this and this is wrong but if we go if we think this is the solution uh it might make us feel good or solve little problems in the short term but let's step back is that wise because an unwise decision would obviously lead to something that uh you know a stopgap measure now but uh tenfold the hell you're experiencing now yeah have you heard of logical positivism in your study of philosophy uh yes um it's like the most debunked philosophy ever and it's it's just keeps sneaking up on the atheist agnostic because they just want to control what they know and they want to limit what they know to things that can be examined under a microscope or measured or quantified and so yeah but if they just did a little overview history of western philosophy as i did when i came that was what brought me to religion too the overview of western philosophy if they just look at a little overview and focus in on logical positivism it is a dead end everyone knows it's a dead end there's it's just it's bankrupt but it keeps sneaking up and saying hey here's a good idea why don't we just why don't we just uh believe in only those things that we can reproduce in the lab well that that's a dead end we know it's a dead end right right that's right yeah and and so and there's an example it's like okay uh you know we know it's a dead end it's been examined and examined again and yet we keep returning to it like a dog to his vomit yeah uh uh for the simple reason that to to uh um getting back to uh you know the deeper knowledge or the highest form of knowledge uh is not simply intellectual because you can intellectually agree or disagree with something and then find yourself and your human weakness keep returning to something that you know isn't true but you rationalize your way back to it thinking well in this instance it is true or given the circumstances it's true now um and so you understood it intellectually and then intellectually you rationalize your way back to it but to deeply understand and to integrate the full deepest meaning of an insight uh and to to you know to work it out to its its its deeper essence and it's it's you know the total power and implication of what it means uh you wouldn't fall into that trap and that that takes more than intellect okay um you know the first commandment of jesus love god with your whole mind your whole heart your whole being your whole strength and um okay this sounds to me this is the way i interpret it okay because of our nature our fallen nature because of the inherent vulnerability of the experience of life and because the of the uh unavoidable fact of of the errors and sins and evil of this world um we are in a sinking ship okay we're in quicksand we're drowning okay and and god is sending out a buoy and he said and he's saying as the first commandment this isn't like something okay well if you have time you know this is very interesting philosophical direction it's not optional it's like you need to do this i'm i want i love you i want to save you grab grab that rope and that rope is the love of god and what do you do when you're sinking in your own pride and your own delusion and the evils of this world and all the temptations and and and layers and layers and layers of self delusion and brilliance and genius beyond belief of human rationality because there's no stupid person on the planet this is a big error in thinking and a lot of people who think that the world is ruled by incompetent people no no folks sorry to tell you the world is ruled by an unbelievably clever competent far-seeing structure of power and you don't see them on your tv sets now you might have incompetent prime ministers and presidents okay absolutely oh yeah no you don't say because they are easy to manipulate they're easily too they're easy to sort of bend to the but the people running the financial structure that are directing the wars and that are uh that are uh moving us away from god and the and the basic instinct of the transcendent that are muddying up our conscience um are very clever they know us more than we can imagine they know us and and therefore they know how to manipulate us this is not a world ruled by incompetent people and the real rulers are the ones behind the curtain the ones with the trillion dollar bank accounts and the unbelievable influence and they're doing a damn good job but anyway i diverted um the first commandment okay when you're living in a world like this the first the the the the imperative okay is to love god and okay oh well what's god you know some bearded guy in the sky how can you make me no god is the actual source of all creation the universe is infused with uh with uh you know the logos the logic and the reason of god which is so outside of our own limited perception uh so and you know you're in trouble down here you have to you have to grab on to that with your whole mind as well as your whole heart your whole being and your whole strength that's what it takes what does it take okay to humble a human being words philosophy jurisprudence suffering you gotta be joking okay uh it takes it takes uh um it takes me well you know good parenting is is about uh providing your children uh any number of of games activities and pursuits that form character that that develop discipline and it doesn't matter what it is of course unless it's towards harm and evil but any any stupid little game uh any uh you know uh ballet piano lessons even if they don't have talent like oh do it it's not because you're going to become this thing it's because anything a baseball whatever it might be and the and the the standard of excellence is over their head you know all these things are good and godly because they train the young person into a disciplined habit a habit of discipline that will be applicable and and so entrenched in their development that becomes part of their character and that they can apply to any situation in life self-control and all these things um and then as you as you grow older and life experience comes into play uh then you start you start to you're in a better position to make sense of difficult things because uh the the habit of uh a disciplined mind and a disciplined will will always come to your aid in times of trouble now if we get lacks on this kind of parenting on this ethic and standard of parenting which i think is happening in a serious way today then you're uh you're doing uh tremendous harm to the new generations because they grow into adulthood uh having failed to develop those most basic skills uh that will uh enable them to think through serious problems not just intellectual problems but serious uh personal problems um and and know how to seek help and know the kind of sacrifice and the kind of uh uh suffering that comes from uh that uh to coming uh to a solution getting back to you know love is sacrifice well yeah and that applies to everything if you want to do well in anything you're gonna have to suffer you don't go looking for suffering but you go looking for the thing at a high standard it's like yeah i'm going to do this and then you discover oh you mean to do this and get there i have to give up this and this and i have to do this much work and i have to be measured against this standard and i have to fail and try again and i i oh uh i have to suffer yeah yeah you do have to suffer you do you love is suffering it you can't have love without suffering and you have to acknowledge that and accept that and so so the you know the battle against evil well first of all conquer it in yourself uh and secondly uh you battle it by cultivating love and the true sacrificial relationship to the transcendent of your own volition and understanding that you're going to come up against serious opposition okay so be it how much do you love this thing how much are you willing to lay your life down because if you're not you don't know what love is okay so the first commandment is is the first commandment for a bloody good reason yeah yeah my favorite it's my favorite commandment and i think of it in terms of uh the parallel sort of horizontal commandments because i think of the ten commandments in terms of uh three for god seven for a neighbor and so the first one i pair with the ninth and tenth and which have to do with intimacy and power your neighbor's wife and your neighbor's ox so it has to do with intimacy and power so what i think the worldliness is is like yeah i want my neighbor's wife and my neighbors tractor power vehicles whatever it is money um and the antidote to that is to say no my intimacy is going to be with god primarily and then with with my wife for god's sake and my power is going to be primarily rooted in god and then secondarily you know in my money and my tractor and my aux and all those tools that i have in this worldly horizontal dimension so i was thinking about the first first commandment in terms of the ninth and tenth and it does uh it does come up a lot uh these issues of intimacy and power uh as a man with uh you know struggled with wandering eyes and this sort of thing finding women attractive i always think about that intimacy that i'm that i find myself uh going after at least in my mind you know that uh that's an indication that i need more intimacy with christ and his church and with god and so it's a it's a good it's a good litmus test and the same thing with power i don't i don't really strive after power i don't really lust after power but in those occasions where i do i just think well no it's not about this horizontal power it's about getting my power from from from god and what saint paul talks about with uh how his st paul's weakness his strength in in christ you know and these sorts of things and uh the uh even the the foolishness that we have is is if we if we're humble about it it can be make place for the wisdom of god and these sorts of things this very paradoxical like uh if you want to live you have to die if you yeah if you you know you can't bear fruit unless you die like a seed and buried it in the ground these sorts of images are paradoxical but they all have to do with intimacy and power ultimately so that's how i think about the the first commandment i spent a lot of time thinking about it okay intimacy and power so think about it maybe something will come to you in your own meditations on the first commandment yes do you think a lot about the ten commandments uh yeah more so more now yeah uh well one thing i could say about uh the ten commandments is that i started noticing um complaint first i think it was bandied about in uh cbc ideas or something i don't know suddenly all these people that intellectuals i knew who listened to the cbc started saying the same thing and i started seeing a pattern it's like where the hell did you get that idea and the idea was uh you know oh the ten commandments uh it's it's just like so negative you know it's like don't not don't do this and don't do this what about like what should we do it's like and i had an immediate answer for them then and that was before i was a catholic okay and and it's that it's the obvious answer that came to me immediately uh was that um that uh there are literally zillions of well there's infinite variations of love and creativity and honoring god well they're as infinite as uh at least as as multitudinous as as the number of individuals that live on earth because every individual is unique uh we're the same in species and biology and general needs but the person the individual is utterly unique everyone has a particular question that has to be answered that's unlike anyone's question everyone has a particular road that they have to grab onto to get to god oh do this do that that's ridiculous but there are only a few well in this case 10 but they speak to all the 10 really converged to i think you know probably less uh like a few principles principles don't fall into that principality or you're doomed just a few of them is that asking too much guys guys go on live love multiply uh you know find me listen to me uh fulfill your unique utterly beautifully god-given unique potentials go nuts yes do this do that do that i'm not even going to tell you what to do but do what that will but yeah do what thou wilt according to the law of god provided you just is it too much to ask guys just a few principalities that are your doom just just don't do these few things is that too much oh it's so negative don't do this and don't do that i mean i i immediately saw the absurdity of this complaint it's a typically liberal complaint oh that's so negative god you know well i think i think i think about that idea every time i pass by a school ground especially a primary school or for younger children or a daycare and how they inevitably have security fences to protect the children from getting run over by the cars or getting abducted by pedophiles or whatever um you know the the dogmas are lights on the path and the the rules the negative rules if you want to see it that way i mean it's a positive rule because it's love love of god love of neighbor but if you want to see it as negative don't do this don't do that they are barriers to protect us that's right and no one would ever suggest removing all of the barriers that we have in our mundane world in work i work in construction i mean no one would ever dare of removing all of the safeguards we have and the the fences and the uh attack where we attach ourselves when we're up high and these sorts of things so uh it's just absurd to have that double standard when it comes to the spiritual life there are dangers there really are dangers of course and speaking of uh do what thou wilt you know uh i was a satanist before i became a catholic and uh i was a big fan of the law of the lama i was i was an atheistic satanist and so the law of the lame i made famous by aleister crowley was do without wilt right exactly yeah and he took it he actually took it i found out much later one of my favorite saints the one who converted me actually to christianity was saint augustine and it turns out that aleister crowley borrowed the law of the lama from augustine who had said in the fourth or fifth century that uh his law of the lama was love god and do what thou wilt aha so it's uh basically i'm still i'm still living the law of thelema according to crowley because what i want to do now is i want to love god and that's one of the things that i want it's just another thing that i want i want to be christian i want to be catholic i want to be good i want to stop sinning i want to i want to know love and serve god in this life so i can be happy with in the next so i'm still doing the law of thema i'm still doing what i want to do but what i want has changed based on my education and the graces i've received well i'm so glad you brought this up because uh the one thing that i think especially in the modern age and the decline of catholicism and its influence on society is that uh people have forgotten what um i think i i don't know if i'm right in this but to me anyway it's the most important wisdom of catholic catholicism so what distinguishes christianity from most of the religions is cr is catholicism deals head-on with the nature of satan with the nature of evil and the way uh he's described is the father of lies the master deceiver not obvious especially if you kind of unbridle yourself from god and you live a worldly life you will be fooled and it even says in the days and the end times even the elect will be fooled the elect meaning those who we thought were good shepherds and the saints and whatever even the elect some of the elect will be fooled because he is such a damn clever liar oh subtle the sa the serpent is the most subtle he is the most subtle and he doesn't he doesn't come in uh with uh you know horns and a pitchfork uh saying the opposite of what god does he comes in well dressed and he says almost exactly what god says very close to it 99 true sometimes with that just one percent or even half percent or even one zero zero zero zero one percent of dark dark acid that you don't see at first he fools you because he's such a damn good liar yeah and uh so crowley like you said you know he borrowed from the law of the the uh remind me saint augustine yes well yeah from santa cruz i don't know what the title of that was love god and do what that wilt he said love god to do it well it's like do i do what that will you know you know what liberal would uh disagree with that except for obviously you know don't infringe on other people's rights but other than that you know do what you want you know um it's not hard to disagree with that but then if you see he just removed that one little thing that especially in our time is so easy to dismiss because i mean only ancient dinosaurs superstitious people you know unscientific people believe in god you know so that's easy to dismiss oh and it's such a tiny little change and it changes everything uh so when you when you're actually in love with you know and it changes everything is it you know it's like uh i was trained in classical piano and you know uh piano um taught me a lot about life because i was lucky i was very lucky to have amazing teachers who were intellectually uh sound and uh and um piano became kind of an allegory for principles of life you know now in music and especially uh playing an instrument to a to a highly refined degree there's no escaping it there's laws there are very strong laws uh there are definitely ten commandments of music making don't do this ever oh come on let's be creative let's be free it's art isn't it no no there's a law behind this you better damn well learn the freaking law and then what is the individual what's like what what is creativity and uniqueness you know like you can hear a hundred different recordings of the same piece and they're all fantastic but none of them are the same how did we get that think again buddy listen to them again and here's the law and especially that let's say for you know uh metaphorically there's like you know ten commandments in music go ahead listen to them again and see if any of these commandments were broken any of them of course none of them they did what thou wilt according to the law and the love of god and music is that well ordered it's well ordered it's always well ordered it's well ordered there's a certain framework there's a certain thing that pulls it all together there's a universe that and the laws of music were not invented scales were invented okay um styles instruments were invented but the law of music was discovered okay just like the law of god is discovered it's not invented it's this it's like it's not an intellectual exercise although love god with your whole mind being you have to use your intellect but it has to be whole mind body intellect memory experience intuition all of it has to work together at highly tuned and uh generously willed commitment it all has to work together because with our mind and our intellect well-tuned we can understand much more than we think we can understand if we will it but not alone the intellect can't get there alone the heart can't get alone they're there alone you know one of the fundamental errors i think of our time well probably throughout all time the temptation is that to let the mind be ruled by the heart rather than the other way around because you know that well like the trinity of love you know it's uh truth charity and uh what was the other one there's three of them anyway it's like faith hope and love you talk about faith hope and love yeah uh but but truth embodies the whole thing you can't have love without truth and love is not made up and it's not just merely a feeling okay you know truth and beauty and and you know the the mind of god um is all of these things in perfect proportion and in holy totality okay and this is what we have to meditate on now when people come up to me and say do you believe in god uh you know before they know anything about me they just hear how i talk and it's like where's this guy going do you believe in god now most people find that an uncomfortable question even believers uh non-believers find it absolutely absurd uh i'm one of them for most of my life i thought it was either an absurd question or a very uncomfortable question i didn't know quite how to answer it but now that i that i truly embraced catholic teaching catholic doctrine i know how to answer it and you know what my answer is do you believe in god believe i love god and i'm ashamed to say not nearly enough yeah yeah amen brother yeah one of my favorite prayers is uh i love you god help my unlove you know it's just an ongoing uh struggle to because it's uh saint augustine one of my favorite saints famously said in his work the city of god there are two cities populated by two that's right yes love of love of self unto contempt of god and love of god unto contempt i was actually going to quote that yes the city of god is love of god even to the contempt of self in the city of man is love of man even to the contempt of god that's pretty that's a pretty good summary of uh which side you're on right like it's like and uh saint uh sent the the jesuit guy there loyola what was his name uh loyola oh um ignatius loyola okay of course yeah ignatius loyola he had a nice image of uh life where there are two hills like two battle camps with two standards two flags one belongs to satan the other belongs to christ and basically you just pick a team like that was his sort of uh his image that he used but um jesus used the imagery well moses used the imagery to choose life like i said before you let life and death choose one yeah choose wisely please that's right that's why that's what i've always said even before cove and i've always said i'm pro-choice i want people to choose freely because that's how god made us but for the love of god choose wisely choose life as moses said and then jesus said uh what did jesus say about uh choice uh i had the quote in my mind i can't remember it now but he said something similar you know one of my favorite quotes by christ is if you love me keep my commandments it's right oh well i do love you but i don't want to keep you i don't want to keep your command august famous for joking uh uh lord deliver me from sin but not yet especially sexual sin yeah exactly give me chastity but not yet not yet exactly how do you spend a lot of time reading the saints the writings of the saints um more and more now it's amazing yeah uh i've got augustine's confessions uh that's what converted me to christianity i think you know i'd have to say that this probably had a big part with my conversion because like i said i read that about three years ago okay now you asked earlier if i could pinpoint when i when i converted um uh it wasn't the reading of the confessions that this happened before but had it played a big uh part in uh ordering my mind to be uh receptive i'm going to interrupt you for one second just to brag that i i've memorized the first chapter of confessions the augustine's confessions and i recite it every morning by memory it's one of my prayers okay wow so you can continue with straight it just it was the turning point for me okay from a generic monotheism to christianity which i hated with a passion but now i i obviously i love it i hated christianity when i was a uh oh yeah yeah yeah yeah as a lot of converts do because we've been brainwashed to hate christianity in our western culture exactly by going with you yeah before i go on i was going to talk about actually if i could pinpoint when i converted before i get to that it's uh you know uh christianity um uh or any any grand uh meta truth okay uh is largely hated by the world and it can only be discovered by the self okay it can only be understood for oneself and um yeah that's just the way god made it uh and that's how he wants it it's like the law of love it's like okay well you know you got to figure out for yourself but i'm giving you all the clues but i'm not gonna i am perfect love god says i am perfect love well what does that mean he's not going to spoon feed you and drag you into heaven against your will but he wants you to love him it's a very personal experience like my conversion i remember the exact moment i came back to god i was reading renee descartes meditations on first philosophy and he was dealing with solipsism which i had fallen into at that point and he helped me realize that god is god i'm not god god is god and god is eternal and all these sorts of things but um when i compare that very personal touching moment where god touched me gave me the grace and i said yes by the grace of god i said yes to the grace that he gave me for conversion and i beg him every day to give me the graces to continue building that faith because you can lose your faith that's the danger that's the scary part but when i compare that very intimate and personal experience of conversion with some of the uh cult settings that i've been invited to by colleagues at work and whatnot like oh come to my religious seminar come to this come to that and a lot of these new age things whatever you're sitting in an audience and you're just thinking to yourself this is baloney i'm not buying this and you're looking around like do these people take this seriously whatever when you think about compare and contrast genuine conversion where god is so gentle and he's not reprimanding you he's not chastising you he's just inviting you to to have a relationship with him when you compare that with some of these settings these formal settings where you get invited into a group and it's just like if you go through these motions maybe you'll become a member and these sorts of things it really is night and day it really is night and day that's right exactly i'll let you continue now yeah uh well you know the distinction between uh the the the atheists and the anti-christians fail to make is uh you know distinction the distinction between the church and this world and the actual doctrine which um the church is run by people yeah well there's another distinction you need to make which is that there's this um church militant in this fallen world that's full of fallen sinners that are not yet purified except for the few saints very very few saints i don't think i've ever met one and then there's the church suffering in purgatory which is being purified and they're guaranteed to go to heaven they're guaranteed to be purified and then there's the church triumphant in heaven represented by our lady who is there in body and soul and of course by jesus christ but i i mean the church is holy it is one holy catholic and apostolic it already is it already is there's just part of it that's that's under process that's that purification and i hope my purgatory takes place here on earth i pray every day hoping that my purgatory takes place here not in purgatory because i do not want to go to purgatory i want to go straight to heaven well of course because purgatory uh is um um long and painful well it could it could be very long and painful and it's a wasted opportunity yeah so it's it's the place for people of full of wasted opportunity and they're they're not uh they're they're sort of uh uh disembodied from the the god-given powers given in this realm for a purpose uh to make use of those opportunities and so the transition is a lot slower and a lot more painful so yes it's best to get it right while we're here um but um uh you know but uh so if i could be more specific and pinpointing when i came to god yeah as a catholic um i as i said i worked at churches all my life and uh the last church service i played was december what are we 22 uh i guess it was tooth uh my son was already born uh that would have been 2019. december 2019 december 15th 10 days before christmas and i walked out i got up off my organ and i rebuked the priest and made a plea to my friends and my parishioners to see what's going on and i walked out and they had to do their final hymn without me okay just on a technical note the anglican church no longer has orders holy orders so they don't have an actual priesthood anymore just you know yeah well um i i didn't realize that until after because you know i got so um i was very disturbed by my action obviously this is a radical thing to do yeah and and i was at that church for 10 years and i love these people dearly we've been through a lot i got married there um and uh so it was a very painful thing but there was something to me that i just couldn't tolerate uh have you been back to apologize i did i went back twice with my son and uh and the priest that i had the big problem with was on vacation oh so and i thought okay well we'll go back when he's back but one thing and another we didn't go we didn't but there's still time we can always do that again unless they have a qr code but the prisoners were very sincerely happy to see me and so i was glad to see that uh bridges weren't burned in that regard at least um but uh but what what you know what brings it all together is uh i can't i think was father longnecker um i can't remember exactly who said this uh but you know the big the biggest complaint from non-believers and brainwashed anti-christians is uh you know christians are hypocrites you know yeah yeah i know where you're going with this you you you spoiled you gave me a spoiler alert the other day you know the quote yeah yeah yeah i'd rather be a hypocrite than a heretic because a hypocrite knows the law but fails to live up to it whereas a heretic changes the law according to how he lives and that in a nutshell described the the heretic that was the apostate ministry of the church that i walked out of uh but uh in in such blatant and obvious ways every sunday uh and i made he was a new priest i won't mention names or the church um but he was new there was a female priest before him that was there from the beginning uh and then he came in in the last year and so throughout that year i had a number of disagreements and i would confront him uh first personally in his office and then uh secondly in a clergy meeting that i requested and then thirdly on a phone call with him and uh it met with such tyrannical resistance and you know what he said when i stood up and i said that i do not recognize this any longer as a christian church and uh no before before i said that before i said that a parishioner had a problem with a prayer that he wrote he was rewriting the liturgy and she had a problem with an issue in the prayer and he tried to explain it away well that's your opinion and da da da and you're free to say it but he didn't actually take on the challenge or explain it so then i piped up and i said well she actually has a point you know it deserves a a clear answer and he turned to me and he says because because of the previous three confrontations that i had with him he said you be quiet tom if you keep going like this you won't be working here much longer and then i stood up then and there and i said i resign and i started packing my stuff and emptying the organ bench and you know what he said when i stood up and said i resign thank god maybe you're in the church maybe you converted him maybe he's a god-fearing man now well no he was thankful that i was leaving being what i was thinking was that he was thanking his father which is the father of lies that's his ways like you know but really though if someone is has a problem with your ministry is upset no matter if they're in the wrong yeah and then they get up and say i'm leaving especially when they're in the middle of a duty for a priest to say thank god even if i was in the wrong yeah a holy man would say now hold on now just let me help you you know the idea would be i'm fallen away from christ and that would break his heart let's talk this through i forgive you already if you want to leave if you really want to leave leave but let's talk tonight a holy priest would keep after me it's like let's work this through i'm very sorry to see you leave and i i hate to see you suffer like this i hate to see you in this state of confusion in this state of uh friction with the church and with me let's work this out let's let's look at the word of god together that's what a holy man would do even if he hated me even if i was totally in the wrong but he did the opposite i was in the way of his power and his agenda i challenged it and the sooner i'm gone the better so that's when ding ding ding i i felt myself much more committed to uh and again like i said i i felt remorse it was a shocking thing for me this i surprised myself yeah it sort of took on a moment of zone you know when i sprung to my fate and said i resigned that was not premeditated yeah don't prepare what you're gonna say in your defense the holy spirit will provide yeah that's right nonetheless i was disturbed by it so i i really thought about it long and hard i i wrote a letter to um to the uh to the parish people anyone who i had an email on a list on my email list i sent them a letter two months later after much much thought i struggled with it um but what it did do is it turned me more deeply to the scripture and to the reading of the saints and to meditation and prayer and then i realized well it's like g.k chesterton's wife apparently said you know at a dinner party uh asked her uh what what made you convert to catholicism and her answer was the devil okay yeah meaning oh the devil made me do it no but when you when you come when you when when uh when uh when error and apostasy and evil and the structure of it and the nature of it and the cause and the sources and the ugliness of it and the ugliness of it become so clear it red pills you sort of yeah exactly it's like when the canadians uh the the peaceful uh protesters in ottawa said thank you justin trudeau you've done what no one else could do in history you've united canadians it's the same thing it's the same thing when someone's a tyrant and someone's evil i'm not saying he's completely evil but when someone's stupid and evil in that petty way it just it just strengthens the resolve of those who actually love freedom and truth that's right i got my freedom convoy shirt on here yeah right what a moment in history but people people are not stupid people even children know yeah what's true what's false what's good what's evil so we're all we're all susceptible to that that but we need to be challenged in this life uh in order to overcome our own selfish complacency and that's what the evil people do they really stimulate us to uh to embrace the truth and to embrace god yeah um that's right and the more they try to cancel people and the more they try to sort of redefine what freedom speech means and then clamp down on freedom of speech and everything like this what they're doing they're just basically putting a lid on an inevitable vibrancy of life yeah yeah and it's just going to keep going like this until it go poof yeah yeah and it's going to come out and shock the hell out of the world um the you know the the thing is with with free speech as jordan peterson that awful controversial man i never he really he's controversial you know when i first started listening to jordan peterson more out of curiosity i try to limit my time online i don't really know what's going on in the world i don't listen to the media and and yet i seem to know everything about what's going on in the world i it's like you know where did you get those ideas people was like yeah how do you know this and that it's like well it's simple i don't listen to the media therefore i know everything um but i'm just i'm just half kidding uh intellectual pride is a terrible thing we must uh best careful where was i going um yeah that awful controversial jordan peterson once brilliantly said that um freedom of speech is not just simply a right or an important right it is the right i would say the like the right to life is yeah yes well what is life well if you're alive okay express yourself yeah and uh freedom of association and freedom of thought and freedom of speech is the is the ground work the underpinning freedom that enables us to reach our potential have our errors challenged to learn to grow to make mistakes to learn from our mistakes it was so funny when the scottish government decided not to publish any more of the vaccine related deaths because that information would be misinterpreted misinterpreted yes it might discourage people from actually get look science is not science unless it's under scrutiny and debate not only by the scientific community itself but if it doesn't make sense uh to the general public in a transparent way then uh the the public and the the uh the custodians of government and jurisprudence who listen and take suggestions from the medical organizations and science not only do they have a right but they have a duty to scrutinize it and to make sure it's transparent and legitimately proven and then even then the medical community and scientists have no place okay to dictate policy all they can do even a good doctor a single medical doctor in a hospital cannot force anything on any patient all they can do is say i've looked at this i've diagnosed this i've got this treatment i'd recommend this i will recommend surgery i will recommend this medicine and the the the patient has that fundamental sanctified right to consent through informed consent like yeah that makes absolute absolute sense to me i trust you doctor yes or that doesn't make sense to me i want a second opinion no thank you that is a sanctified fundamental medical autonomous individual right for a good reason okay that people forgot that so easily but we're getting that you know science is not politics science cannot say well we see a problem here and this is what we figured out and there's a lot of people saying different things but don't listen to them we're gonna censor them and you have to uh pursue this policy science is not a policy maker it's a knowledge uh digger-upper it's like okay well we figured this out this and that and that uh this is what we see now it's up to the politicians and the citizenry and the intelligentsia to make sense of it to say okay yeah now we have to figure out what to do about it that's the recommendation but then this and this and this has to be taken into consideration and what's the best way forward well that's that's not the scientist's job that's not their realm just like it's not the scientists realm to disprove or prove the existence of god because science is incapable of going into the theological or moral realm because you cannot see it under a microscope it's a certain realm of knowledge it's a very important knowledge it's like saying otherwise saying you know mathematics is the highest form of of of beauty and then saying that's the highest form of truth as if mathematics can teach us anything about self-awareness love morality history it has nothing to do with it but of course mathematics is beautiful music wouldn't exist without it and we couldn't build a house or a bridge without mathematics but to say is it so conflate it's confusing categories and that's what a mechanical utilitarian world does and so the debate um these red carpet world atheists uh on the high paid speaking tours debating theologians and trying to prove you know i have to say that the theologians that step up to that plate by and large are fools because they're falling into a trap okay to get to enter into the the the wrestling ring uh with these new atheists which are really kind of a different breed than the older atheists in many ways um and to to make the argument about the existence or the non-existence of god is a trap okay the atheists will always win because they framed the debate and there's nothing that's going to convince them unless they can actually logically and scientifically come to according to their frame of mind a satisfactory proof which will never arrive and there are there are philosophical proofs that are tight but they they won't go there they won't go they won't go there because it's not you know according to you know the mechanistic utilitarian view of the world which is what distinguishes the new atheists you see the old atheists uh had a lot in common with christians you know the good atheist is simply a doubting thomas well yes you know i believe i do believe that you know the the universe is awesome and and mysterious i do believe there's good and evil uh but uh it can be explained naturalistically and uh and anyways uh i i can't see any proof of of of a divine uh god and i'm a doubting thomas but i am passionately interested in morality and the human project and the discovery of truth i share that with you too yeah i loved it i loved the truth all during my whole journey as a agnostic and then an atheist yeah yeah but the new atheist you see the new atheist is that war with religion itself and what they don't realize and a lot of people that fall into this and and have their heroes on the new atheist side what they don't realize is that the war on religion is actually a war on culture it's a war on story it's a it's a war on allegory metaphor and all the tools that we instinctively and have always used since the beginning of time to deal with those transcendental questions that uh speak deeply to the soul and to the meaning of life itself to to to um uh to to the very underpinnings of what glues a culture together on on a line of of values and a sense of right and wrong they don't realize they're actually not simply warring against ancient texts and supernatural beliefs they're warring against humanity and culture itself and they're trying to steer it towards um primarily utilitarian and mechanistic world view and eight okay so hold your thought okay because if you can't because just one more thing you know everybody i believe has an instinctual desire for immortality okay somewhere deep inside but most people quite overtly um they're warring against religion okay but these same people that were are warring against religion are promoting uh artificial intelligence and what is artificial intelligence okay it's this idea that we can actually overcome death you know it's it's it's it's a move towards this utopian idea of immortality okay transhumanism transhumanism and and this comes from uh against the materialist dialectic they look at history they look at their own lives they look at the world and they're resentful oh there's so much suffering and there's so much evil in this world and it seems like it's always been that way and maybe it'll always be this way unless we re-engineer humanity so he doesn't keep making this and that error of course they don't even understand the structure of the error they can only see the symptoms so it's like if we just re-engine who's rea who's doing the re-engineering and so and what is it too well it's born out of a resentment of the way life is and the fundamental challenge that has to be dealt with head-on and if we if we're if we become pathologized by that challenge and resentful we haven't gotten rid of our fundamental instinct for immortality oh now we got a problem we got pride and ignorance tied in with our fundamental desire for immortality there's no end to the hell that that can meet so that's that's what i say about the new atheist debates well you know you mentioned that uh they don't even know they're destroying uh western civilization and culture but they do if you read the if you read the explicit writings of the for example the freemasons they make it very clear we want to destroy the family we want to destroy religion we want to destroy everything that is good and wholesome and meaningful in western judeo-christian culture uh i mean the the satanists were the same but they had different motivations more selfish motivations which i think is more admirable just uh i just want to maximize my own personal pleasure my voyage here i i have a lot less fear of the individual satanists than i do of these uh freemasons or communists like they devout communist is a lot more dangerous to me than a devout satanist would you agree yeah i would agree with that for sure because it's the borg it's the borg it's that it's that collective it's that collective and they know make no mistake about it they know the people at the top engineering it know what they're doing cultural marxism all this sort of stuff critical race theory they know exactly what they're doing well it fits to a t what the the catholics say about satan and so when one you know apart from being the ultimate liar and and seducer um the the way the way satan operates is that uh um you take any aspect of life and the order of the cosmos uh there often works in twos and then there's the third force that glues it together so man and woman okay and child okay and life and men have a slightly different nature for a reason they have a different role in the whole reproductive reality of life and what's involved with the bearing of life and women have a slightly different nature you know exactly oh that's verboten now this is basic this is basic biology 101 no it's basically but but it's been it's been denied it's being denied as we speak right no because let me explain see this this is fundamental to what they what the catholic doctrine says about satan it takes that which is supposed to be conjoined to make one single whole like yin and yang okay different but complementary cannot exist without the other so anything that is tied by that thin fabric that unites it into a hole satan comes in and severs okay that is the main tool in his toolkit okay division division where there should be wholeness so whenever there's multiple parts that make a hole divide separate and pit against each other and that's what we're seeing to the end to the well to the upper limit all over the place it's really you're you're in your 50s i'm going to turn 52 on march 18th uh so we've been around the block and uh my wife and i joke about the good old days you know like i mean we we never thought the earth was a paradise and uh i won't go into my uh wife's uh philosophical world view or religious worldview because i don't even know what it is but um you know we never were foolish enough to think that we lived in some sort of paradise but you know looking back now since the past two years the the sort of unmasking of the these tyrannical people um we really can sort of reminisce about the good old days and the the at least the appearance of freedom that we had a relative sort of freedom and then if you dig a little bit deeper you find out things like income tax and passports international passports were just provisional short-term measures that just sort of hung around and never went away right so we can see the slow creep of tyranny over uh but um yeah you know it's uh i just wanted to sort of emphasize with you now as a a middle-aged man the sort of perspective that that we can have as compared to maybe someone who's uh grown up uh uh well not it can't have grown up under kobe but that's more young and impressionable and perhaps hasn't calibrated what's normal what's not what's not normal these sorts of things so that's right yeah um that's a that's a good point because you know i was just thinking of this the other day the good old days which was a couple of minutes ago um you know the good old days you know thinking back in childhood living in a conservative port city with a small population and a conservative province far away from any urban area uh catholics and protestants living side by side uh sideways do you say sideways did i say side by each no but i lived in newfoundland for a bit and we picked up some good things i'd say okay um in our neighborhood we had you know next door across the street the whole street uh indians pakistanis hungarians um you know it was it was a pretty um you know multi-ethnic street just the street i lived on in a conservative town are you irish scottish descent um i have a bit of uh i have a bit of irish and me yeah i don't know any english i don't know i think i know i have uh irish ancestors and i have french fosters um but anyways the point was uh you know we grew up again in a conservative town back in those dinosaur days when we were supposed to be far less woke no iphones no iphones far less woke bigoted and racist beyond belief because you know it was yesterday as opposed to the new dawn um i don't remember what i remember is that there was absolutely no racism that i could see all of these families were you know various immigrants that went through the traditional immigration laws of assimilation you know learned the language so that you can apply your skills and your professionalism and integrate and become a canadian without losing your identity every one of these houses they still had their their various religions they cooked their you know traditional meals they took pride in it they'd invite us over they spoke their own language at home they spoke english on the street um they retained a love of their traditions but they incorporated themselves into the civil values and laws of society they succeeded you know one the there was you know corner store owners there was um a civil servants uh clothing store all these entrepreneurs started their own businesses raised three four five children um harmony on the streets a good diverse mix of people and that was back in the you know really ignorant days like before we had critical race theory to correct our awful ways um you know it's like as things got better i think uh douglas murray uh i think may this was probably one of the better points in his book uh the madness of crowds uh is that it seems as things got better you know as far as equality you know uh um uh women in the workplace uh um reduced tensions uh in the home with homosexuality acceptance of homosexuality reduced racism as things got better the cultural marxists doubled down okay and they um they veered away from the better things of martin luther king and they took uh the more toxic side of malcolm x not to say malcolm x was so wonderful he really nailed he diagnosed the liberal problem to a t um uh but he along with alec baldwin i think was his name uh and france fannin okay uh were seething and resent okay there was a lot of hatred and anger in that and so they they took that coupled it with the marxism threw out all the good stuff and the wisdom that that all of these people had to offer and found more and more excuses imagined and semi-real magnify them beyond all proportion uh and uh and stoked the fires and increased division rather than hooking on to that train of what was already in progress that things were getting better things were getting better you fools and you derailed it and now you're you're you're you're you're adding division upon division upon division and uh you know i'm still trying to unravel the the full cause of that but there's you know there's many uh first is forgetfulness the young people don't know anything because they're not taught they can't remember um they don't know what what this past century has gone through and the processing of the whole meaning of it the two world wars and the uh the reordering of the world after world war ii and uh and all the fallout of those wars and um the sexual revolution and uh you know the frankfurt school and all that stuff um it's not it's not understood because it's not it's not taught it's not examined thoroughly um even in the best of times even when i was when we were young you know history class some of the more boring classes were were math mostly because most of us weren't naturally good at advanced math and history because it was just a bunch of names and dates and it's like how do you make meaning how do you get how is this interesting memorizing a bunch of names isolated events and dates um it's got to be personal it's got to be personal for me to remember it well exactly it has to make sense you have to make a story with it and you got to see you know the the connecting threads as to why possibly all this stuff happened if you're lucky you had a good teacher yeah because you know it's not the fault really isn't with the history books although obviously there are flaws in them there's things left out and it's written by the victors and whatever uh but either way um even when i was studying music which is relatively you know neutral field music history i found dreadfully boring you know it was very kind of mechanical and a lot of names and a lot of dates and no really connecting threat but if you were lucky and you had a good teacher yeah which are rare you know but there are really good teachers with amazing imaginations plus a lot of knowledge and they would make the class interesting and they would open it up for questions and he would have amazing answers and he would tell stories i was lucky to have at least two good histories both uh his teachers both in music and in academic history in school and i will never forget it but lacking that good teacher to help you understand it the inclination is just to put the damn history book down and go to that party that you don't have time to go to um and it's even worse today because uh history and science has become so politicized that our young people are growing up without that kind of guidance without that stimulation of curiosity and that um that desire and will to understand your parents and your ancestors past so everything's disconnected and funneled through this kind of save the world utopian politicized view of the world and as we talked earlier about the nature of evil and the nature of reality you can't begin to affect any positive change or direction in the world until you fully understand not only the nature and structure of evil in total but the inner darkness that resides in you and that's lost and look where we are now so i do really believe that it's inevitable that the end times are approaching it seems that all the symptoms are there of the end times christ did not come to save the world this is a huge this is one of the uh apostasies of of modern christianity is they try to comfort people and say well you know christ will return and make everything okay he did not come to save the world he came to save souls he came when he came two thousand years ago as a beacon call a warning okay the time is near the time is near guys wake up and come to god this is your pretty much your last warning and he didn't say that to save the world he came and promised that the world would end it is ending it's ending it's inevitable and he said i brought a sword not peace and uh he compared it to the days of noah at the end right like and uh that was a catastrophic flood of water but the next flood will be a flood of fire consuming the whole creation but um i do want to mention one thing that came to mind while you were speaking what was it oh yeah uh the prophecies of our lady of fatima when she appeared to the three shepherds in fatima portugal uh there's a lot that's very exciting that centers on current events with russia and the ukraine uh there's a lot uh hinging on russia and at the time of the apparition ukraine was part of russia okay yeah and it has to do with the consecration of russia which then included ukraine and it never took place it was supposed to take place some people theorized that it took place because jp2 st john paul ii consecrated the whole world and the whole world includes russia but that doesn't cut the mustard he didn't fulfill the obligation no one has fulfilled the obligation of our lady when she said that russia needs to be consecrated to her immaculate heart so that's right uh what's going to happen the promise that was made by our lady at fatima is that if it's not done then there will be great wars and tribulation and russia will uh dominate uh europe okay and uh so i mean i don't i don't exactly want to cheer on the end times just because there's a period of peace that's coming and great conversion russia will be converted and the whole world will be converted basically so i don't want to cheerlead and say go putin and devastate europe devastate europe because our lady said that's what's going to happen before the end and i don't want to be like those protestant christians that want the conflagration of jerusalem and so that it'll usher in the end times i don't want to be like that yeah but we live in exciting times let's just put it this way we live in exciting times and the prophecies of our lady although we don't need to believe in them uh i think it'd be foolish not to pay attention to those that have been approved like fatima lured in these sorts of uh apparitions and it seems to be very topical with uh this this news cycle uh with russia and ukraine just some final thoughts on that and then we'll wrap up uh with a positive thought at the end oh well okay good so that's it that's i'm glad you brought that up uh because uh you know as far as um uh the prophecies in fatima the apparition and the prophecy of of mary uh is that the um and as you know as you said you know you don't want to of course you don't want to cheer on uh either russia or nato um but the point is that what people a lot of people are missing in this conversation that's going on right now is that they're falling into this kind of uh binary trap uh putin is a madman look what he's doing this could be world war iii and then at the same time they're rooting on their side forgetting all their crimes they're basically actually rooting for world war iii without even knowing it it's like wait a minute okay and why and then getting back to the the nature of evil knowing thine enemy you know why did russia do it why did putin do what he did he told us who what he told us why he told us the whole history if you watch his speech he he said it quite clearly okay and there's no denying the fact that um there's a great deal of responsibility on our side for the mess uh not only with russia and ukraine but the entire middle east and many other places in the world uh we bear a lot of responsibility for our actions and it's very easy to point at that well look what he's doing now as if you wouldn't do the same thing as if your own side didn't do similar things well it's like putin said himself if uh well how would the u.s react if we put military presence on the border of canada and mexico how would they react and they promised nato promised they wouldn't move one inch to the east from from berlin exactly okay so on and so forth because uh people are so wrapped up in worldly concerns and get their uh information from uh propaganda from propaganda and um and they're they're not thinking about the big picture they don't have the time or want to devote the time uh and they're so they're they're prone uh or they're primed to uh to be stimulated and manipulated almost primarily on the emotional level okay and the fear of death and so is the the paradox there is that the more you fear death and the more you're disconnected from the mind or the heart is disconnected from the mind the more you wish for a certain outcome the more the opposite will be the result of your actions okay because you're separated from the whole picture and you're always looking outward rather than inward when you're trying to mediate uh or discern the meaning of a conflict uh outside of you uh you will um uh you will fail to see the whole picture and so you will to satisfy your limited consciousness you will have to before you get any uh where next uh to the next step of your analysis you'll have to you have a desire to determine okay this side good that's i bad okay now that i figured that out and then of course your whole analysis will fail miserably um so yeah it's a conundrum terrible conundrum and uh it speaks to the state that not only of our society but you know there's nothing new under the sun as they say and uh humans haven't changed the fundamental problems uh at the at the root of our fallen nature were there from the beginning and they haven't changed what has changed and is unique in our times is the uh the sheer scale of uh the infrastructure uh of control that uh beams out its messages at the speed of light 24 7 globally uh this is utterly unique in our time but the underlying psychology and nature of evil and the underlying perennial condition of human consciousness uh is exactly as it was when we left the garden so i think about i think [Laughter] i think about the i think about the chosen people the jews wandering in the desert and how they're complaining even before they started their 40-year wandering as a punishment they started complaining about how it was better under slavery in egypt and people want that you know they wanted their garlic and onions and the irony is i don't eat garlic or onions i'm allergic to both but there's this idea that we had the comfort okay we were slaves in egypt but at least it was familiar we had regular food and uh moses is like god like you better just kill me than to give me this people of whiners and it was it was a nightmare people do not want to leave their comfort zone they do not want to leave the comfort zone and when moses went up the mountain they just went right into party mode or having an orgy it's just like human nature is so on display in the old testament and if you read the old testament if you study the old testament you'll never be surprised by intrigue in politics ever again because it's so dirty it's so dirty at the politics it's dirtier than dirty can be yeah and uh yeah so uh how do we end on a positive note well let's talk about let's talk about people okay god goodness is real folks we have a choice we can take the the the church is not christianity is not for good people and the church is not a place where the the the sanctified and the good go you're not left out it's not holier than now the church is a hospital for sick souls the church is for sinners and yeah christians are hypocrites but they know the law and we're all hypocrites but the difference is do we choose to know right from wrong do we choose to regret and have remorse for our sins do we choose a higher standard to thrive towards or do we change the law to make ourselves feel better to wipe out our hypocrisy by inverting the law good luck it's better to be a hypocrite and get the hell to church thank you so much for taking the time will you come back and talk some more uh another time i would love to great i really appreciate you taking the time and uh very nice to get to know you a little bit better uh i think we have a lot in common in terms of our uh way of approaching the truth and our journey to the truth and that's it's fun meeting someone with uh with uh like mind and uh i'll definitely have you back we'll have to just keep in touch between now and i'm sure we'll see each other yeah at some point and uh at the next loft party yeah oh yeah oh yeah our secret society but we'll definitely see each other soon and uh please keep me in your prayers me and mine and you and yours are in my prayers okay thank you yeah so uh god bless you and take good care until we see each other again it was a tremendous amount of fun john and i i'm very david it's okay you can call me john if you want i was calling you i was calling you teddy i was calling you teddy behind your back all right david sorry i'm so sorry because we only met twice and that's one of my flaws i forget names think about king david king david what a terrible sinner he was but he was repentant that's the thing well that's what makes you kingly kingly kingliness actually is that self-control that you were talking about earlier i wanted to mention that we are all priest prophet and king and mastery of self is the kingliness that uh yeah that i think is sorely lacking in uh most of us but yeah to be continued my friend to be continued thank you thank you so much thank you and god bless you and we'll talk very soon okay amazing keep it up i'm so glad that you're doing this thank you my brother i hope we uh get get to more people yeah yeah yeah very small very small audience i've been doing this for like uh four years or something maybe five years now okay and it's always been a small audience but uh if i if i wanted to win a popularity contest i know exactly how to do it i just choose not to no i know i don't want to have all those kittens on my channel yeah well i'll i'll spread the word nonetheless if we can't if we can't make uh if we can't uh gain views by uh by being popular and comforting people there's another way we can gain a lot of views is be controversial as hell people love getting pissed off it's the new drug okay thank you thank you so much we'll talk soon you too take care god bless you thank you