Catholic vs. Atheist - 2017-05-13 - Ali Qobadian-Kalhor

Author Recorded Saturday May 13th, 2017

There are 47 episodes in the Versus:Atheist series.

Recorded February 9th, 2019

Catholic vs. Atheist - 2019-02-09 - Greg

Recorded September 11th, 2016

Catholic vs. Atheist - 2016-09-11 - Renaud

I met Ali at one of the monthly Centre for Inquiry (CFI) Skeptics in the Pub meetup events. He is my second Unitarian Universalist (UU) guest. He grew up in Iran in a nominally Shia Muslim culture.


Catholic vs. Atheist - 2017-05-13 - Ali Qobadian-Kalhor

Author Recorded July 30th, 2016

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These transcripts are generated automatically and are therefore unformatted and replete with errors.
hi this is Ali and you're listening to cosmic versus 80s so it's just tablet listen to look at Lana Ali and Persian origin and I'm here in Canada over 15 years and a professional engineer I studied philosophy too with an philosophy I grew up in the inner theocracy food in a sheet Islamic theocracy until 29 years old and we had extensive education over religion and they try to teach us all the arguments for and against the religious ideas and the God and paradise and hell and etc and at the end you know we realize that they are just stories so we cannot believe in them as facts you and your classmates and me and my peers and many of my many people in my generation I want to ask you a couple of philosophical questions if I could about atheism I think atheism is philosophically untenable I think that it is absurd and it contains contradictions that's why I'm not already exist I used to be an atheist and are no longer in a totally displaced so I'm going to ask you a few questions about that sure so do you believe that the universe we live in has a beginning in time I think you want to go into the argument of first cause and I think that argument is flawed because then what the cause of the first cause but the very thought is uncaused do you believe in the uncaused first cause it's just exactly to believe in on cause everything else no does your essence you personally does your essence include existence yes or no but but the even with the first cause it doesn't justify believing in all sorts of authority but we'll just start was the first cause and we'll build from there if you don't believe in cause I believe in existence are you comfortable with the universe that has no beginning in time are you comfortable with that philosophically yeah you are yeah it's irrational because right the second law of thermodynamics but I have to tell you something the time has been there and will be there I mean you I mean the existence and non-existence is there you ordered a beer okay the waiter went to the bar to fill all his order so there was the other guy over there the order to beer also so before he brought you your beer he had to bring that guy's beer right so there was a delay now what if he said your beer is coming but I just have one more client to serve and then I'm going to bring you your beer okay there will be a longer delay right that's cool now what if there was always another guy ahead of you say that you would never get your beer ever that's why we know that the universe had a beginning in time because you have your beer okay but there was always a guy before me that did think it there's a finite number of guys before you and you can go forever it has to be final what or you would never get your beer but you have your beer therefore the universe has now beginning I believe within finite you believe it's inside then you would never get your beer and you might not be here that because that's the heart that that's a cause and effect and it is called on the first course infinitely back and goes in finance in the future what's wrong with that what's wrong with that is that you are the effect of a cause and that causes in turn the effect of another cause before it and so on and so on and so forth and the fact that you're here now means that there's only a finite number of causes and effects between the beginning and you because otherwise you're just waiting for your turn why there are causes infinitely before me and there will be in causes infinitely after me but at this point I'm here so I exist in these are you know continue picture it like a chain hanging you're one of the links on the chain hanging it needs a hook to hang out I believe this concept is the is a little bit more complicated than this another argument that I bring against atheists which is airtight is this supernatural dig Lina supernatural no there is nothing supernatural then you don't have to work because what you're saying is a materialist is that every thought you have is a physical configuration of neurons etc and cells in your brain it's all determined by the laws of nature yeah exactly and so there there is absolutely no freedom in there for you to make a decision because it's every state in your mind is determined by the state that preceded it by the laws of nature there's no is determined by law there's no feeler yeah if the scientists know you cannot go out of the nature it's not it's locked it's locked in nature yes there's no freedom there's only the illusion of freedom but you're not actually free that's my point from your point of view inevitable within the laws of nature yes correct yeah I agree so there's no freedom great why we need to have make a choice because morality if there's if there's no pretty well then there's no praise and there's no blame I mean I find your argument very flawed because all the actual history the that the religious for interviewed that denied field well no because you don't have a free world because your destiny is written by God this may be is one but Christianity emphasizes free will if there's no free will there's no possibility of sin and if there's no possibility of sin then you can't merit help right and if there's no sin there's no point in having a savior so it all it all hinges on free will be all our things same thing your destiny written by God and God knows everything so knows what your going to be your next move etcetera but his knowledge is not the cause now but but but this is said that he's the cause of everything I mean I didn't say that no so you people cause well what the cause of any evil so what you want why are you going back to be fair it's all because he is the first cause but he is the source of everything that's good but he gave us free will and with our free will we can do something other than the good which is called evil called evil is called thing called mistakes called errors I absolutely disagree with you because these evil and things and the sister are you talking about they are all in the human and it's among the humans we cannot find a cow doing the same that's correct because you need free will exactly because we can be a saint because because we are more conscious so that shows the human they have choice do you have a conscience the conscience is a social construct you think so yes of course because I eat meat without feeling bad but if you do it in India for somebody who believes in reincarnation and that person is going to really feel that is true relative to the culture or is truth absolute in other words is it absolutely right or wrong to eat meat or is it only relatively right or wrong the right or wrong social contract doctor social contract so there is no absolute objective truth the truth is truth and the right and wrong they are moral judgment and has nothing to do with true can you make up your own morality no because the morality is within rational and irrational is the universal thing I want to ask you about justice do you believe that justice is a real thing absolutely absolutely are you striving for justice and I salute it ok if you look at the big picture of the universe from the beginning to the end or I guess you don't believe there's a beginning and an end right there is no beginning ok so if there's no beginning and no end then what does that say about the overall average success rate of justice in this universe given the fact that there's no beginning on whisper 300-person Stockstill what it is yeah no one escapes justice I don't want to nothing is good Jonathan at the end can you explain that mechanism to it yeah because we human we think we are so important but it being really if you look at the universe as a whole we are non-existent we are so - kle so our action they are that's so small do you think your actions matter and the choices you make matter to me it but objectively to hold universe know what prevents you from indulging and pleasure at the expense of other people that's utterly wrong because that opens the door for them to induct indulging pleasure pleasure in Maya being human means that you look up ahead you you want you have ideal and you want to realize the ideal you want you want to have justice among ourselves if we would because you want what is the best case scenario for you after that the best is just I go away I'm not going to come back whatever just nothing there's nothing that would be good why why do you think that that's the best thing that can occur there won't be no problem I have to be afterwards let's say you're going in in paradise I mean you know they you promise the future huge amounts of sexual indulgence there it's just like handling that is difficult or like you know going to hell anything but like the thing is the thing is that the city will have the problem I mean the idea will have the problem to deal with that's not what the monotheistic religions teach it is not you're telling me I study Dominica I have been inclusive like for many many years and they told you their problems in heaven they didn't say the problems in half your interpretation of my interpretation when you when you're going there and you have like a 70 virgins or like you know stuff like that you know just another problem mapping and you better not be there hey what if I told you that heaven is all good and there's nothing but no problem so it's a very boring play known nothing will happen it's just a no that's exactly like none exists no know that I've alleviated zoning system what's the best thing you've experienced in your life ever right now and have water here I like it's a hard life right now thing as I like you see everything is flat now yes there was never a little peak or a little valley like some direction the Dro I'm a depression and Happiness they all are rooted in in your social contrast and biology and physics in the future and yeah of course that's what we instruct what we would like to have a elevated humanity as well as the racial inefficient and to attain the higher consciousness and the higher consciousness is there you would like to be in the higher level of consciousness and that we may look for higher consciousness from the beginning and that's the most severe it is being it it it doesn't mean that I don't I don't believe in a higher consciousness I've live in higher consciousness but I don't believe in the God is portrayed it in pts religion which is just about created in the face of a human very very lucky lucky it was a very human life and you know there was this philosophy in ancient Greece that he said I mean I don't remember his name but he said that if he thank you they had to make a doll of God they made because they are and that's what we did with the religion like them to this gentleman that was it it actually I really pray somebody do dike dike script and they have been very successful in developing this literature and that was very moving them like it was it was in stripe for the higher consciousness in a point of history but at the moment I think is there living that was a part of history and and we we pass over that what's the most exciting thing taking place philosophically and spiritually now today 2013 that the getting the consciousness of death of getting over the mind I'm is a key because we are very much very much prisoners of our own mind and mine as it can be very constructive can be very destructive as well we're learning how to control our mind and I think that's why I think somebody like a card told I give him a lot of credit for me is about that okay we have other heroes of course I do have other could you name some that are sort of in that realm of higher consciousness I do have for Rajesh the Osho I do have this idea about Buddha Buddhism is a very high place because it didn't fall into the tops of the normal like there any other religion the the old or old prison put like October grooming they are under the tickler to me they are the color virtual point so what do you do in your day-to-day life that would sort of allow you to grow grow I do meditate I do participate in spiritual community oh yeah as I'm a Unitarian Universalist all the way Gemma you you used to be a protest on the church and but then the point they they decided to not to believe in hell and leave that the God is more compassionate than to put people in the hell so it's going to forgive everybody sixties it became very much like kind of a very human and I believe in a sort of human sample human is the church which is sad food justice and God for higher consciousness and it's art for education and understanding and feeling good about yourself having a balanced life psychology as I I really believe in when did you discover the Unitarian universal or years when I arrived in Canada problem to later on I have been member of Unitarian Universalist Church in California and there are I make a lot of long life bonded people and I found it very interesting to be a part of that company so unfortunately skating allowed so I ask you now to just give a closing thought anyone is listening I would say that we have to go beyond this a demand atheism we have to go into realism accepting nature and universe as it is rather than trying to find a construct that would work for our psychology I mean we have two separate looking for a protective father from our beliefs about the universe and then maybe we can really take responsibility in our own lives and the life of humanity as a move forward and going beyond beyond injustice and ignore if you don't want to do if you got some questions a piano tell all you got to do it all you got to do do