Catholic vs. Other – 2017-09-10 – Judah

I met Judah through friends at a BBQ in the park this summer. He was raised Jewish, but never believed in God. He studied philosophy and creative writing and is a devoted father of twins. I enjoyed getting to know him a little better.


Please excuse any errors as these captions were automatically generated by YouTube.

0:00 hi my name is eagle and you’re listening
0:01 to Catholic versus other so tell us a
0:08 little bit about yourself if you would
0:09 what you believe and how he came to
0:11 believe it
0:11 I am from a very mixed background
0:13 religiously economically socially in
0:17 many ways so I’ve never really
0:20 identified with one group I never
0:23 believed in God since I can remember so
0:26 if you had to say what I believe in I
0:27 guess it’s it’s more my individuality
0:30 can you talk a little bit about your
0:31 childhood and what you were exposed to
0:33 in terms of religion okay so both my
0:35 parents are Jewish
0:36 both my parents kept kosher I haven’t my
0:39 parents were divorced since I was a baby
0:41 so they also had very different
0:43 backgrounds my mom is Eastern European
0:46 she grew up in Montreal my dad is from
0:48 India but he’s Jewish it’s a very small
0:51 community so my mom is Ashkenazi my
0:54 dad’s Sephardic I went to different
0:56 synagogues so like with I didn’t go to
0:58 synagogue with my mom so much but I went
1:00 to Hebrew school at an Ashkenazi
1:02 synagogue and then with my dad I went
1:05 first to a very non Orthodox but almost
1:08 an Orthodox synagogue and then we went
1:10 we switched went to a reconstructionist
1:13 synagogue when I was about 12 the men
1:15 and women sit together
1:17 it’s very progressive there’s a lot of
1:19 philosophical discussions in synagogue
1:21 it’s always questioning itself to a
1:24 certain extent it’s very open yes it’s
1:26 the best word to describe it so that was
1:28 very interesting what would you say is
1:31 the point and purpose of Judaism general
1:35 Wow I don’t know to obliterate your mind
1:40 Judaism is still an enigma to me and
1:43 I’ve been not deep into it but I’m in
1:46 red I spent all that time in synagogue I
1:49 was listening to what they’re saying I
1:50 was reading the the Bible over and over
1:53 and over again because that done they
1:54 else to do in those four out three four
1:57 hours every week and I’d listen to
1:58 discussions you know people we’d have
2:00 people over the house sometimes I never
2:02 believed in the religious aspect of it
2:04 but I always liked the literary aspect
2:06 I’m a writer so it really grabbed me the
2:09 kind of the stories and I I’m still kind
2:12 of I think there’s a lot
2:13 value in all religions in the myths and
2:15 the rituals and the way of understanding
2:19 the world through stories through
2:22 because it’s the easiest way it’s not
2:23 you know if you give somebody a huge
2:27 tomes of theology they’re not going to
2:31 most people aren’t gonna be able to get
2:32 through that but if you give them a
2:33 story they can relate to into their
2:36 normal daily life it’s like an analogy
2:37 so I always like those I like the
2:41 community aspect of it so I really I
2:43 felt the warmth if you want to call it
2:45 that singing together and but I didn’t
2:49 believe any of it which is quite strange
2:50 have you ever experienced a dark and
2:53 lonely period in your life where you
2:54 reached out to this alleged God no and
2:58 I’ve definitely had some very very dark
3:00 it’s in my life and that’s when I kind
3:02 of realized that I didn’t believe okay
3:04 because I felt like if I ever would have
3:06 believed that would be the moment to
3:08 believe what did you do instead where
3:11 did you seek solace for comfort or I
3:14 didn’t I mean I really just I tried not
3:17 to skit stuck in a set of beliefs
3:19 I had one period where I was reading a
3:21 lot of Krishnamurti and he had some I
3:24 just remember I don’t remember a whole
3:25 lot of pretty good thing but I remember
3:27 one thing that stuck with me was this
3:29 constant in or evolution idea he had
3:31 always constantly questioning what you
3:34 believed which i think is just good for
3:35 anybody and if you do have strong
3:37 beliefs that you’ll be able to build on
3:39 those and strengthen them so I kind of
3:43 went through a period of existentialism
3:46 if you want to go I read a lot of
3:48 existentialist which got very dark I’m I
3:51 know I’ve read them the right period in
3:52 my life is it but it gave me actually a
3:54 lot of confidence I always asked about
3:57 freewill and morality because it’s
3:59 absolutely dependent on the notion of
4:03 the supernatural things don’t just
4:05 happen
4:05 without a sufficient reason there’s a
4:07 sufficient cause for everything that
4:08 happens and to assume the opposite and
4:12 say that everything is well ordered in
4:13 this material universe and there’s
4:15 nothing beyond the material universe is
4:17 to say that we don’t have freedom and if
4:20 we don’t have freedom then we don’t have
4:22 morality so I don’t know if you’ve
4:24 played with these ideas or if you’re if
4:26 you’re familiar you’ve studied
4:27 philosophy you have any long time ago
4:29 okay I’ve done courses in freewill
4:31 versus determinism this is kind of why I
4:36 stopped studying thought I was really
4:40 going crazy didn’t how does a thing who
4:42 cares and I understand what you’re we
4:44 put the morality in there but the same
4:47 time it’s if you have a camera and
4:49 you’re zooming out from things the
4:50 farther away you go the less things have
4:53 a system so if I look at the entire
4:56 universe maybe things aren’t causal
4:59 because humans have a yearning for some
5:02 kind of causality and meaning okay and I
5:04 think that that could be dangerous as
5:07 well because that’s how that’s how we do
5:08 make systems and not all systems are bad
5:10 but I think if you think of things as
5:13 absolutely meaningless this is against
5:15 essential single tenant – there really
5:18 isn’t any meaning now where do you get
5:21 morality from that that’s obviously
5:22 that’s a difficult jump where there’s
5:25 almost a contradiction in things so you
5:27 can say I’m meaningless in the universe
5:31 because I’m a speck but I’m very
5:34 meaningful to the people around me if I
5:36 want to believe it in that way
5:37 so if I do harm to somebody else I can
5:41 see what that I’m doing harm I don’t
5:42 have to make a logical conclusion about
5:44 it I mean most people can feel it they
5:47 can see it it can sense it and that’s
5:49 where you come away from the the mind
5:50 the logic do you believe in free will I
5:55 don’t even bother thinking about it it
5:58 seems like you have a very pragmatic
5:58 point of view don’t worry about the big
6:01 picture just do what is natural and what
6:04 is obvious and what is wholesome and
6:06 healthy and just do what works I mean
6:09 this is allegedly what Buddha said just
6:11 try it and if it works and go with it
6:13 what’s interesting though in having that
6:16 pragmatic point of view is I also know
6:19 that I have a foundation of morality
6:22 from religions so I think I people know
6:25 West forget that that we are based on
6:28 judeo-christian the tenants but I’m sure
6:32 there’s some countries where certain
6:33 things we would take for granted as
6:35 being a normal thing that people should
6:37 do ethically more moralistically
6:40 they don’t care about them because it’s
6:42 not in their code of living and that’s
6:43 fine cultural relativism is one of those
6:46 things along with moral relativism that
6:50 I think are very dangerous but things
6:53 like communism I don’t know if you have
6:55 a leg to stand on philosophically to
6:57 fight against these dangerous worldviews
7:00 well again I don’t necessarily look at
7:02 the starting point of a view I look at
7:05 what what is it done so in that respect
7:07 I would agree with you like what happens
7:09 in Soviet Union is horrendous and people
7:11 walking around nowadays calling
7:14 themselves Marxists and with communist
7:16 sickos I’m like I’m kind of shocked it’s
7:19 almost like people walking on Swiss
7:21 nica’s it’s the same because you can
7:24 start someone in kirkegaard had a great
7:26 great cope with that he said don’t build
7:28 a castle if you’re gonna live in a
7:29 shithouse revisionist history is is a
7:33 dangerous thing so yeah I killed
7:35 millions of people I think that the the
7:38 relativism it’s a it’s a tricky question
7:41 because again can you have a system of
7:43 morality and ethics without some sort of
7:46 basis to it I would hazard the guess to
7:49 say that you don’t believe in an
7:51 objective and eternal truth or an
7:54 objective and eternal morality is that
7:55 correct I can’t because I don’t know
7:58 what is morality me it’s like I don’t
8:01 know I’m watching a house of cards right
8:03 now it’s just a political throw but the
8:05 white house and and what’s interesting
8:07 is and I think they do hit on it really
8:09 well is how ideas can switch and turn
8:12 okay and how different kinds of people
8:14 can manipulate even accidentally and
8:18 turn things around and something that’s
8:20 sort of going right is going left or up
8:22 or down right away and I find that
8:24 fascinating
8:25 I think that’s if you study history the
8:27 same thing has gone on one little event
8:29 can totally change the flow of a
8:32 movement so how do you want to ride that
8:35 wave well I think it’s dangerous I am
8:37 that’s why a lot of the time I stay out
8:39 of moments but I try and stay focal as
8:42 possible try and talk to as many people
8:43 as possible because at the end of the
8:45 day I think that people are influenced
8:47 by other people one on one I think
8:48 you’re not just speaking but your
8:50 feeling and your sharing and
8:52 I was a social worker at one point I
8:54 think there’s a part of social work
8:55 called feminist social work but what was
8:58 interesting is that when you’re talking
9:00 with a client with someone here to help
9:01 you share your own stuff which in
9:05 traditional social work you didn’t do oh
9:07 okay so let’s say you go to a
9:09 psychiatrist they’re not gonna start
9:11 talking about their own projects
9:12 relating to but I started doing it I
9:15 thought was very interesting it’s a bit
9:16 wishy-washy got to be careful obviously
9:18 there’s lines and borders not to cross
9:20 but the exchange was very powerful and I
9:24 think this is the same thing with
9:25 conversation is that if you talk to
9:28 somebody one-on-one or in a small group
9:30 you’re gonna affect change even affect
9:33 each other
9:34 everybody teaching each other and will
9:35 be helping each other this is a good
9:37 point to introduce friendship and love
9:39 can you talk a little bit about that
9:41 what is a friend I mean if your closest
9:44 friend we also call somebody maybe you
9:46 see once on all a friend who you might
9:47 be closer to in some weird ways you know
9:49 you might see friends every week since
9:52 you are a kid so you have a history of
9:54 friendship but you don’t necessarily
9:57 connect with them as much anymore you
9:59 might meet someone new sort of cringe
10:01 with them more like when you’re
10:02 travelling right I never really have
10:04 goals I kind of just go with stuff learn
10:07 from it and preserve it also from the
10:10 outside who would be an example of a
10:12 close friend right now myself
10:19 not including your slide my medic my
10:21 children my children are close friends
10:23 and so I’m not including family my dad
10:27 can be interesting when I was a kid he
10:29 said you’ll know your real friends when
10:31 you’re having problems and you need
10:32 people but I don’t know if that’s even
10:34 true because I have really close friends
10:37 who are not that reliable but I feel
10:40 very close to them with them but I would
10:42 never go to them if I’m in trouble well
10:44 it’s weird you know whereas I have other
10:45 friends I’m nicely close well they’re
10:47 just the kind of people will help open
10:48 you mean help
10:49 so I don’t know all these kind of I’m
10:51 always questioning what these
10:53 friendships meet and it seemed to be a
10:55 very cautious approach to labeling
10:58 anything origins – nothing I’m claiming
10:59 to understand anything yeah absolutely
11:01 um so let’s talk about you
11:03 mother does your mother love you and do
11:05 you love your mother Wow I have my I
11:08 would say yes and I’d say I love my
11:10 children deeply and maybe they’re the
11:13 first people I’ve actually deeply loved
11:14 as possible because your parents they
11:19 love you deeply your parents love you
11:21 deepen and you understand that when you
11:23 have kids you know I have friends who
11:25 are evolutionary biologists types which
11:28 I like as well but they would say yeah
11:30 but that’s just you’re an animal and
11:32 you’re there to procreate and it can be
11:35 very cynical but if there’s some truth
11:37 to it as well it’s like why are babies
11:39 cute so you don’t kill her physically if
11:42 I when they’re waking you up belt and I
11:44 have twin it so like it was hell if the
11:46 first year you know we didn’t sleep for
11:48 a year if there’s not that love I can
11:51 see a parent going absolutely nuts you
11:53 know but you don’t buy completely into
11:55 the Darwinian world here I think it’s
11:59 dangerous
12:00 yeah to a certain extent to do that
12:02 because then you can become very cynical
12:05 and like no I’m taught the love thing I
12:07 think there is definitely some kind of
12:09 feeling that people have let’s say we
12:11 live in a calf gasp universe and you’re
12:14 a or Julie should appreciate this you’re
12:16 on trial and the charges that you don’t
12:18 love your kids okay so you’re on the
12:21 stand and now you’re being viciously
12:23 attacked okay all the evidence is being
12:25 brought against something you don’t love
12:27 your children yeah yeah what kinds of
12:29 proofs are arguments could you bring to
12:31 say that you love your children well I
12:33 think that you would die for them yeah
12:34 we’ll be there
12:35 the first easily die I mean look again
12:38 wait I should have to add to rephrase it
12:40 I hope that I’m I don’t know I thought
12:43 if I would it’s a terrible thing to say
12:44 maybe I would be a coward I have no idea
12:47 but I hope and I have I felt it to a
12:50 strong degree that like if a tiger
12:53 jumped out of the bushes in the plateau
12:56 I would fight the tiger just because I
12:59 love my child I think I’ve done quite a
13:01 bit for Matt so I’m not like we’ve gone
13:03 for anything horrible horrible yeah I
13:05 mean I think hopefully most parents who
13:09 are involved with their children will
13:10 probably say the same thing
13:12 other than that I don’t know what a
13:13 proof is that you love your children I
13:15 think that’s the best proof
13:17 I mean that’s what Jesus said he said
13:18 good love hath no greater proof and to
13:21 give your life so yeah it seems that
13:24 you’re pretty convinced that love is
13:26 real you’re just not sure if there’s a
13:28 cynical Darwinian explanation or not I
13:30 just I don’t believe it cuz I don’t want
13:33 to have that worldview because if you
13:35 started believing that stuff then you
13:37 can become a dangerous person I mean
13:39 that’s the way I look at it it’s good to
13:41 know it though yes that’s how you’re
13:43 doing both things at the same time it’s
13:45 very important to see where things come
13:47 from yeah that’s part of truth and
13:48 understanding of the world but it’s also
13:50 important that you leave a space for the
13:53 unknown and like the supernatural like
13:55 you’re saying people who are a hardcore
13:58 atheists I don’t have time because it’s
14:00 how do you know like really and also I
14:03 find them quite unpleasant to be around
14:05 because they’ve taken the logic to the
14:08 other extreme which I don’t think is
14:09 helpful to anybody you know because if
14:11 you take it that way then why should I
14:13 help someone who’s not related to me
14:15 right if I would truly believe in an
14:17 evolution I would actually want them to
14:18 die probably because it would leave more
14:20 food for me
14:21 have you read the New Testament no
14:24 you’re not familiar with the parables of
14:26 Jesus
14:26 no like I actually had a question for
14:28 you because there’s a whole thing that
14:30 Jesus died for your sins yeah but then
14:33 he gets reincarnated right No resurrect
14:35 a resurrected which means what it’s a
14:37 different thing the basic idea is that
14:39 he laid down his life and he picked it
14:41 up again did he know he was gonna get
14:44 resurrected he know everything yet you
14:45 know everything he has got almighty who
14:47 took on human flesh he’s fully human and
14:51 fully divine those are his two natures
14:54 there’s a human nature and divine nature
14:56 but he’s one person he’s the divine
14:58 person He is God incarnate so he knows
15:00 everything okay so the sacrifice was the
15:03 pain the sacrifice is in his humanity
15:05 because in his divinity he’s perfectly
15:07 happy all the time
15:08 he’s godlike that he went in what
15:11 happened after that gladden read the
15:13 Newton he ascended into heaven after his
15:15 death in the resurrection he stayed
15:17 around and talked to people and people
15:19 saw him and touched him but then he
15:21 ascended into heaven in his body and
15:23 heaven is not like some place up in the
15:25 cloud but even Jesus when he was on
15:28 earth when he prayed to God the Father
15:30 raised his arms in his eyes to the sky
15:33 okay so there’s a reason why he didn’t
15:36 look down to the ground when he was
15:38 praying to God the Father it’s because
15:40 we live in a universe that is physical
15:43 but it’s also spiritual and there are
15:45 connections between a physical light and
15:47 the supernatural light of the intellect
15:50 or the supernatural light of God when we
15:52 have light or we have darkness in a
15:55 material form here it means something
15:58 spiritually and there’s a connection and
16:00 there’s a sort of poetry to everything
16:02 there’s a there’s meaning to everything
16:03 so it can’t be comprehended all we know
16:06 for sure is that it’s not on the map if
16:09 it’s a higher place right it’s a higher
16:11 place yeah and he’s going to come down
16:13 why what’s the purpose of the second
16:16 coming yeah no idea like it’s the end of
16:19 the drama for all of the generations and
16:23 all of the people that have been born
16:25 and that will be born into this
16:26 pilgrimage between the Garden of Eden
16:28 and eternal heaven each human individual
16:31 is working out his salvation and making
16:34 that fundamental choice for God or
16:36 against God what was the witness the
16:39 point is to return I was loving to be
16:41 with God and to be happier to be happy
16:42 that’s the point right we have the
16:44 freedom to refuse to give God the love
16:46 that he deserves and that implies
16:48 consequences which are negative but he
16:50 knows what’s gonna happen he knows
16:52 everything
16:52 isn’t that we supposed to be generous no
16:55 we have food free well if he knows
16:57 everything’s gonna happen the same way
16:58 that you know what’s gonna happen even
17:00 though you’re not the cause of what
17:01 happens for example you can see if you
17:04 can watch from a distance some disaster
17:06 about to unfold and you’re just like the
17:08 reason that you’re gasping and pulling
17:11 at your hair is because you know what’s
17:13 gonna happen you’re not the cause of
17:14 that though you’re witnessing it but
17:17 you’re not the cause of it but I don’t
17:18 know it’s gonna happen for sure if God
17:20 knows for sure something’s gonna happen
17:21 but if you knew for sure like there’s
17:23 some things that you do know for sure
17:24 that are gonna happen I mean when I when
17:26 I was young I remember all these stories
17:28 that when reading the Bible in the Old
17:29 Testament most of them were just about
17:32 God testing the faith of people Abraham
17:35 taking Isaac to kill him like I mean
17:37 that’s kirkegaard has a whole book about
17:39 that fear and trembling which is really
17:40 in that soul leap of faith but it’s
17:42 always like
17:44 God not testing but kind of just it’s
17:47 not like God just saying do this listen
17:50 and do it it’s almost like are you in
17:52 the city
17:53 are you actually believing everything
17:55 which I think we do that in everyday
17:57 life how old are your children they’re
17:59 nine do you remember when they were
18:01 learning to walk
18:02 do you remember the gestures that you
18:04 would use to encourage them and to catch
18:06 them if they fall
18:07 can you imagine God being in that parent
18:11 role and you’re the baby and you’re
18:13 trying to walk and you’re stumbling
18:15 you’re falling and everything he’s doing
18:17 everything he’s out of love to guide you
18:20 and to strengthen your steps because
18:23 you’re gonna learn how to walk yeah
18:24 exactly you know if not love to just say
18:28 well my baby’s not gonna walk because it
18:29 hurts his little legs you know that’s
18:32 not love yeah at that point we as finite
18:35 creatures we need a certain sort of
18:37 training and it’s like training wheels
18:39 on a bicycle you know there are many
18:41 many examples of that in the Bible where
18:43 it’s like people just don’t seem to get
18:46 it
18:46 but God patiently is there with them
18:49 with the training wheels and yeah I mean
18:51 I would think whether you believe in God
18:53 or not I mean I read a lot of Joseph
18:55 Campbell stuff I don’t believe in
18:57 everything he’s saying but I think it’s
18:58 a good kind of understanding cuz he
18:59 studied world mythologies like he went
19:02 through all the mythologies pretty much
19:03 deeply for his whole life and he was
19:06 trying to find things that were common
19:08 within all or at least very common most
19:10 and also why so rituals like why do you
19:14 do this what’s the point of this I mean
19:16 even in the Bible there’s the stories
19:18 have points to them they’re not just
19:19 that’s what a sermon is it’s not just
19:21 like oh here’s a story it’s like this is
19:23 why we have this story so you can learn
19:26 about life look you’re saying about
19:28 learning to walk so I think you know I
19:31 mean Islam right now it’s said it’s
19:33 still like a teenager
19:34 that’s where I look at Islam right now
19:36 so Christianity used to be like that
19:38 let’s say you know what the Crusades or
19:40 things like that was going through this
19:41 kind of teenaged angst and I think Islam
19:44 right now is hitting that because it’s
19:45 big enough it’s hitting other religions
19:48 too and it’s kind of like yeah it’s
19:50 trying to figure itself up so I find
19:53 Judaism is very straining religion
19:55 number one it doesn’t try and spread
19:56 itself
19:57 very weird and the evolutionary
19:59 biologists will have a lot of problems
20:01 with that
20:01 I was like why would you try and keep
20:03 your religion small it defeats the
20:05 purpose of having a group right it’s
20:08 very weird Thomas no I’m not especially
20:10 once you if you almost get wiped out you
20:13 think you’d start spraying it religion
20:14 around a little more so I mean that’s a
20:16 mystery yeah I haven’t said I’d like to
20:19 study that more the whole kind of
20:20 relationship between these these Western
20:23 religions you know do you favor
20:26 monotheism over some of the other
20:27 worldviews or not I haven’t studied
20:29 enough really I mean I live in Korea for
20:32 a year as an example in Korea was
20:34 interesting cuz career was traditionally
20:37 Buddhist I guess and then Christianity
20:39 came along and now it’s about half the
20:42 Christian I would say but it’s a new
20:44 Christianity but I found it very
20:46 interesting there’s just a different
20:47 vibe and different kind of like no one
20:49 ever talked about religion there are
20:51 reserved people know not about other
20:53 things okay like they talk politics they
20:55 talk about a lot of stuff they look at
20:58 my grocery cart when I went to the
20:59 supermarket like they talk they or nosy
21:02 kind of you know but religion wasn’t
21:04 something you really kind of and not for
21:07 a polite reason it just kind of parley
21:09 religion just it is what it is okay
21:11 which I found very interesting and they
21:13 have actually there’s a lot of I know in
21:15 China to this is this kind of pulled
21:18 towards Judaism now not that they’re
21:20 trying to convert but they’re kind of
21:21 getting obsessed about Judaism for some
21:23 reason which I find very interesting
21:26 maybe also because they have this kind
21:28 of mysterious not real like I don’t
21:33 haven’t studied Buddhism or Taoism
21:35 undies but I’ve read a couple of books
21:37 and they’re kind of just really
21:40 ephemeral kind of they’re strange to me
21:43 they’re you know it’s a different kind
21:45 of culture I guess I didn’t grow up in
21:47 it so what if there were an opportunity
21:50 that arose this is a big temptation now
21:52 it’s not likely to happen so don’t worry
21:53 but imagine that an opportunity
21:56 presented itself where you could get
21:59 something good whether it’s pleasure or
22:01 money or something good and it’s illegal
22:06 it’s gonna harm somebody right
22:08 but you don’t know them you don’t
22:11 you basically there’s a perfect storm of
22:13 circumstances where you will never get
22:14 caught you know you will never get you
22:17 know that you’ll never have to see the
22:19 suffering that you caused and you know
22:20 that you’re just gonna be a lot happier
22:22 for the rest of your life would you do
22:24 it and if not why not
22:25 it’s a tough question it’s like the
22:26 black box right that was the oh that
22:29 story we hit the button and you get like
22:30 all the money in the world and like but
22:33 someone dies somewhere else oh yeah but
22:36 I think we do that every day everybody
22:38 in the world could have enough tea if
22:40 you look at that one we were close from
22:42 China of people who are working you know
22:44 on 90 hours a week and getting nothing
22:46 and starving maybe we use gasoline which
22:49 is messing everything up I mean there’s
22:51 all these kinds of things were born into
22:53 it not to say that if we stopped it and
22:56 we change necessarily but we have to be
22:58 aware that we’re doing that so I mean I
23:02 always think of war as as a very
23:05 interesting because Wars bring out the
23:07 worst of the best and in standing armies
23:10 the first signs are combat when you
23:12 actually first come into a combat you
23:15 have to kill other people something like
23:17 95% bush deliberately sure over the
23:19 heads of the enemy oh because it’s just
23:22 not human to kill and you’re trained to
23:24 kill but I think it’s the same with
23:26 everything I think that you know the
23:30 news shows us a lot of bad things
23:31 happening but if you actually observe
23:33 around you any country you’re in no
23:37 matter how bad things are
23:38 the vast majority people are not doing
23:41 bad things I’m not I’m a little bad
23:44 things I’m talking about like horrible
23:46 things right yeah and I think mostly if
23:48 someone falls on the street someone’s
23:50 gonna help them depending where you live
23:51 obviously but I think it’s important to
23:54 remember we don’t see a lot in media you
23:56 know unless your grave circumstance so I
24:01 always think of these extreme you know
24:02 what if my kids were starving yes I’m in
24:05 a war zone and probably steal
24:07 I might even kill to protect my children
24:10 if he see his children starving and in
24:12 pain that’s a really strong impulse and
24:15 a lot of morality does go out the way
24:17 there’s that movie the road and no fuel
24:20 is money it’s with it’s based on a novel
24:22 by Cormac
24:24 Karthi and the movie was it was shocking
24:28 to me because it’s kind of like the end
24:29 of the world going on something you
24:30 don’t know what minima tell you what’s
24:32 happening and then it’s a father and his
24:35 son the mother has enough and she
24:38 basically kills herself she doesn’t want
24:40 to deal with what’s happening and then
24:41 he has his son and they’re heading south
24:43 because it’s too cool and then you see
24:46 all the horrible thing the cannibals and
24:48 starts and all these horrible kanna but
24:51 there’s also certain good people and you
24:52 just see it’s exactly what I’m talking
24:54 about it’s kind of like you don’t know
24:55 are you good anymore
24:57 if you’re doing that are you still is it
25:00 better just to die and let your children
25:02 die
25:03 you know like if you’re gonna kill
25:04 somebody else yeah and eat them or
25:07 whatever like but that’s like we don’t
25:09 ever have to hopefully worry about these
25:11 things because our standard of living is
25:14 very high we don’t have Wars going on I
25:16 think it is valuable to think about it
25:18 in terms of knowing yourself knowing
25:20 that you’re a monster yes I think that’s
25:22 a real certainly I mean I would never
25:24 say that I wouldn’t do these things
25:26 under any circumstances anybody can do
25:29 anything that’s I’ve always believed
25:31 that that’s one tenant that I stick to
25:32 alright and I’m sure there are
25:34 exceptions but I think if you push
25:37 someone’s button enough in the right
25:39 direction they’re very capable of doing
25:41 almost anything and I mean it’s scary
25:44 but nowadays I get scared of it because
25:47 there’s a lot of I don’t call it
25:48 tribalism but the identity politics is
25:51 out of control now and people are like
25:53 intention themselves in these groups
25:55 they’re screaming at each others no
25:57 dialogue and it’s dangerous because this
25:59 is what you sort of having escalations
26:01 and like I’m on this side and you’re on
26:04 that side and I hate you and your
26:05 monster you’re not in this punch the
26:08 Nazi in the face stuff like that’s
26:09 appalling to me I mean those guys want
26:11 to go out with tiki torches as long as
26:13 they’re not touching anybody I know I
26:15 think it’s horrible what they’re doing
26:17 but where is a line drawn I mean the
26:21 vast majority of people on religions
26:23 forget even religions politics and stuff
26:25 like that and generally are born into it
26:28 so like you know it’s interesting with
26:30 you cuz you came to it but if kind of
26:33 nowhere yeah with that I almost trust
26:37 more in some ways because like I mean if
26:40 you were born and then right away you
26:42 were shipped off somewhere else you
26:43 never grew up with your parents
26:45 the chances are you wouldn’t have the
26:47 same role worldview or religious or
26:49 anything as your parents like it’s just
26:50 it’s unlikely there’s a tournament
26:53 called propinquity I think it was called
26:55 okay in psychology whoever is in
26:57 proximity to you and so you’re gonna get
26:59 close to it so I mean most like you know
27:02 a lot of marriages occur through the
27:04 workplace or through the church is it
27:06 like it’s cuz your neighbor it’s because
27:07 you just see them a lot more yeah it’s
27:09 like being stuck on a desert island you
27:11 fall in love because you just there’s
27:12 nobody else here next to each other the
27:14 whole time right yeah it’s just a human
27:16 thing so I think that if you’re always
27:18 in shut off in a group then you’re never
27:21 gonna have exposure to anything else but
27:24 if you’re always in Montreal is a great
27:25 place because you always had exposure if
27:27 you want to to all kinds of people you
27:29 know socio-economic cultural or
27:31 religious and that’s why I think growing
27:34 up here I had that ability to kind of
27:36 from day one in kindergarten I had
27:38 different people around me so when I go
27:42 to a country like Korea I live in Korea
27:44 and it’s very homogeneous it’s very
27:47 weird but as long as that that open mind
27:49 then there shouldn’t be a problem
27:52 people are very similar so this podcast
27:55 exposes me to people with different
27:57 worldviews there are two sort of
27:59 mutually exclusive projects one is
28:01 humanity and the other is absolute and
28:04 eternal unchanging ultimate reality we
28:07 can’t both be right where there’s
28:09 genuine contradiction on doctrine why
28:12 can’t we both be right well I said
28:14 genuine contradiction yeah but that’s
28:17 again that was my point before with the
28:19 logic and the semantics and language and
28:21 there’s so much infighting in every
28:25 religion about theology about doctrine
28:28 about I’ve spent I’m sure in Catholicism
28:30 it’s the same thing if there’s that much
28:32 fighting even within the religion why is
28:35 it impossible that another religion is
28:39 just as right as your religion as humans
28:42 were all striving towards similar goal
28:46 no it’s exactly
28:48 I mean it’s all it’s a really
28:49 overwhelming thing to be it’s hard to be
28:52 human
28:52 it’s not easy like people kind of I
28:54 think a lot people just kind of float
28:56 through life kind of numb because it’s
28:59 easier when you start really thinking
29:01 about nothingness and existence it can
29:04 really drive you mad because even the
29:07 idea that you’re a speck in the universe
29:09 is crazy they think about it so I mean
29:13 of course the religions are gonna try
29:16 and you know pop up to kind of give some
29:18 meaning to your life and that’s
29:19 acceptable I don’t see anything wrong
29:21 with that
29:21 you can rage against the church but the
29:24 church also is the foundations of social
29:26 charity welfare in Muslim countries
29:29 there’s no safety net like you need food
29:31 you have to put a mosque like they’re
29:33 the only people who actually help you so
29:35 that’s why I’m very suspicious people
29:38 are like our religion is terrible well
29:39 no and you can’t say that because if you
29:42 study history you know it’s not true I
29:44 had a couple years were actually felt
29:45 like I was in this abyss it was really
29:47 dumb like I literally felt like I was in
29:50 a floating in this dark kind of it
29:52 wasn’t a necessary depression was just
29:54 like it turned into a depression because
29:56 to be in that abyss without any meaning
29:59 without any kind of things to grapple
30:01 onto is scary and that’s what what being
30:04 alive is to a certain extent you have to
30:06 kind of hold on to something so I think
30:09 that as long as the religion is not
30:10 taking you away from your journey to
30:15 figure things out then it’s fine so just
30:19 to wrap up the show what would you say
30:21 it anyone that’s out there listening I
30:23 would say that whether you believe in a
30:26 religion or not it’s very important to
30:28 remember to trust your eyes ears and
30:31 heart as well I’m not just
30:33 philosophically thinking about things
30:35 but that there’s a lot of good in the
30:37 world that that the world is more good
30:39 than evil the good part is easier to go
30:42 to if you know how to do it and there’s
30:46 always a way out there’s so many
30:49 different ways to live a life if the way
30:52 you’re living isn’t working there’s so
30:55 many different ways to try there’s not
30:57 one right way you just have to find the
31:00 way that works for you
31:02 that can give you some happiness and
31:03 comfort and that if your religion or
31:07 your non religion is not working and
31:09 you’ve tried everything you can to make
31:10 it work it’s okay to kind of switch
31:12 switch games halfway through and try
31:15 something new and I just from a personal
31:18 experience I found the thing that helped
31:21 me the most was actually helping other
31:22 people it’s when I started doing
31:24 volunteer work and it kind of saved me
31:27 in a weird way and I always recommend it
31:29 to everybody that when you’re at your
31:31 lowest and darkest if you help somebody
31:34 else it’s like a weird medicine because
31:36 you don’t feel so alone anymore you
31:38 don’t feel so nothingness you start
31:40 feeling connections to people a way to
31:43 save yourself and everybody else is to
31:46 build those connections with other
31:47 people because that’s the only thing
31:49 that we really have control over at the
31:50 end of the day
31:52 [Music]

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