This is my mother, whom I love very much. I recorded this interview while visiting my parents in Kingston, Ontario, during Easter weekend, 2017.
Transcript
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0:00 | hi I’m Josephine Ross you’re listening |
0:02 | to Catholic versus Protestant toe looks |
0:09 | a little bit about yourself who you are |
0:10 | what you believe and why you believe it |
0:12 | well I was raised protestant i went to |
0:16 | the united church as a child i also went |
0:20 | to the Salvation Army periodically and |
0:23 | what was it like growing up with the |
0:25 | United Church of candidate did you were |
0:28 | you taught to pray by your mother before |
0:29 | bed and stuff like that before meals |
0:30 | with your father pray before meals oh no |
0:32 | my father did the closest thing my |
0:35 | father came to saying anything religious |
0:37 | for my mother had a felon or some pain |
0:40 | and she told that he’d say tell your |
0:43 | troubles to the Lord yeah he wasn’t |
0:45 | recognized religious tough but and he |
0:49 | wasn’t a round hole I’d he left and had |
0:52 | a baby with another woman while I was |
0:53 | being born so I didn’t know okay as I |
0:57 | how did how did it come about that you |
0:59 | were going to church well it was just |
1:01 | what we did it was we girls would why I |
1:06 | was baptized when I was about eight the |
1:09 | Queen Street United Church was about two |
1:12 | blocks away and we’d go to church I |
1:17 | don’t remember mom going with us |
1:18 | probably because she was so happy to |
1:21 | have an hour free of kids I hey and how |
1:25 | many how many kids were near there were |
1:27 | seven girls and no boys no boys no ok so |
1:33 | you I remember when I was young when you |
1:35 | taught me how to play before bad that’s |
1:36 | right your mom teach you or no she must |
1:39 | have I don’t recall it but would you |
1:41 | greatly yeah we always got near by the |
1:43 | bed and say now I lay me down to sleep |
1:46 | as I thought about it later cuz i taught |
1:49 | you guys to do that before you go to bed |
1:51 | but that i thought how scary really for |
1:55 | a little kid to say if i should die |
1:56 | before I wake you know but yeah we pray |
2:01 | that i still pray do you still say that |
2:03 | prayer not open on my heart is the |
2:06 | Lord’s Prayer okay no other was just |
2:09 | scared |
2:11 | but and I always I think it’s Psalm 122 |
2:18 | I always say that at night I sipped |
2:21 | through the day dreamers are you holding |
2:23 | up I shall lift up mine eyes unto the |
2:25 | hills from whence cometh my strength my |
2:27 | strengths cometh from the Lord which |
2:29 | created heaven and earth he shall not |
2:32 | suffer thy foot to be moved he who |
2:34 | keepeth thee shall not slumber behold he |
2:37 | who keepeth Israel shall neither slumber |
2:39 | nor sleep the Lord is thy keeper the |
2:42 | Lord aside yield upon thy right hand the |
2:45 | Sun shall not smite thee by day nor the |
2:47 | moon by night the Lord shall preserve |
2:49 | thee from all evil he shall preserve thy |
2:52 | soul shall preserve thy going out and |
2:55 | thy coming in from this day forward and |
2:57 | even forevermore okay would you recite |
3:02 | songs as a family of the kid or oh no no |
3:05 | there was never any sort touch of |
3:07 | religion really in the head interesting |
3:10 | that you guys will go to church yeah I |
3:12 | don’t know it’s just natural yeah we |
3:14 | just did it was and it was close mom |
3:18 | believed in God and she wanted us to |
3:22 | grow up okay yeah can you tell me a |
3:27 | little bit about I know it’s not |
3:29 | pleasant but when you went to high |
3:30 | school some was Catholic girl fiocchi |
3:31 | Josiah told aya well we do we’d be |
3:35 | walking along princess street and the |
3:39 | Catholic girls be on the other side and |
3:41 | these two girls and they’d haul her over |
3:44 | nasty stuff at us like hey look at her |
3:47 | she’s got red hair black eyebrows |
3:50 | because I had red hair by five I always |
3:55 | picked on me because I was always shy |
3:57 | anyway one time we were at Skelton Park |
4:01 | and these two Catholic girls show up and |
4:05 | they start beating me up and this is |
4:10 | when I was a lot younger than going to |
4:11 | high school and I bound and bent I was |
4:16 | not going to shed a tear through it and |
4:18 | they pulled my hair and pulled it i’m |
4:20 | sure they pulled some of it until at |
4:22 | last he stood back and said |
4:24 | wow she doesn’t feel any pain still sits |
4:27 | torturing me anymore but anyway the when |
4:31 | I was going to high school and these |
4:34 | same Catholic girls we were walking by |
4:36 | the bell telephone and she started |
4:40 | beating me up again right in front of |
4:41 | the tough on the guys from the frame at |
4:44 | the bell at the window hollering at you |
4:47 | no catfighting or whatever you know |
4:49 | anyway that was probably in October and |
4:53 | then in March I went started work as a |
4:57 | very building I saw those same guys that |
5:01 | it’s a refighting a so what happened as |
5:06 | you girls grew up did some of the kids |
5:08 | go deep into hardcore religion and |
5:10 | others less so or what’s the would not |
5:13 | affect from there no no what it was over |
5:16 | the top religious and nobody ever ever |
5:20 | ever swore in my home no no the only |
5:25 | time well if when we were at little we’d |
5:28 | ride mom nuts and we keep it up until |
5:31 | she said damn and when she said damn you |
5:34 | knew that was time to stop I thought |
5:39 | grandmother lived right next door she |
5:42 | was an interesting interesting lady your |
5:45 | grandmother yeah told fortunes and and |
5:49 | what was her trade name not amazing and |
5:53 | it was in the personal column of the wig |
5:56 | standard madam AZ knows all tells off |
6:00 | did she ever tell fortunes to her family |
6:02 | and friends are only two strangers I she |
6:04 | only paying customers had crystal ball |
6:09 | on a kitchen table and mom would be at |
6:13 | some time we lived there we lived |
6:15 | upstairs but did you have a mystique |
6:19 | about her or no I asked you know she |
6:20 | didn’t put on any gypsy type though no |
6:24 | but she was she had a presence that’s |
6:28 | what I would say okay she never cared |
6:30 | for me too much but my mom when we were |
6:33 | living that one |
6:34 | mom told me that my mother would be in |
6:39 | the living room and knock had come to |
6:41 | the door and it would be someone who |
6:43 | wander fortune told and they’d walk past |
6:46 | the living room to the kitchen mom could |
6:49 | hear them going out there and the chair |
6:51 | is being pulled out and then I see |
6:55 | someone in uniform as soon as it was the |
6:58 | war time everybody had Oh is he gonna be |
7:01 | all right yes he’s going to be all right |
7:05 | you know and they were glad to hear it |
7:09 | whether it shouldn’t have any powers but |
7:13 | she had the power of the tux yeah okay |
7:17 | and she was yeah she was special word no |
7:22 | it’s fun I never felt like I had a |
7:24 | grandmother at all truth about why you |
7:28 | just never had a grandmother that would |
7:30 | hug you know huh yeah what about your |
7:32 | mom’s mom she was sort of very very |
7:36 | unhappy lady she is not too warm no I |
7:41 | sure norm at all I don’t remember a |
7:42 | touch of me over I guess I didn’t like |
7:47 | her as a kid but as I’m older I can |
7:50 | realize that she was very unhappy |
7:51 | because this would be interesting in |
7:54 | your Catholic versus Protestant she was |
7:56 | in love with Catholic life he was in |
7:59 | love with her and in those days you did |
8:02 | not do it both families wouldn’t have |
8:05 | any part of it but too so they were |
8:08 | forbidden to marry and then however it |
8:11 | came about she married my grandfather |
8:14 | who was 18 years older than her I’m sure |
8:18 | they didn’t even like each other so when |
8:21 | you got a bit older and started working |
8:23 | as an adult or whatever left home no I |
8:26 | never left home till I got married okay |
8:28 | yeah but when you met dad was it just a |
8:31 | happy coincidence that you both belong |
8:33 | to the United Church of Canada well I |
8:35 | don’t remember it being savvy no I was |
8:39 | happy to read a but sort of thing like |
8:43 | incidental I went to yeah it’s church |
8:45 | was never sort of oh my god I gotta go |
8:48 | to |
8:48 | I’m going to die you know and he said it |
8:51 | was something you did and it was a part |
8:55 | of your life and a nice party in life |
8:58 | but when you met that and you just |
9:00 | casually found out he was united church |
9:01 | of canada and when you got when you were |
9:03 | going to get married it was just a |
9:05 | natural thing they didn’t require any |
9:06 | thought or anything just get married in |
9:08 | the United Church yeah that’s right and |
9:10 | he attended princess street united |
9:12 | church so that’s where we got married |
9:14 | where then when you guys were baptized |
9:17 | you all were baptized in the princess |
9:21 | street united yeah you gotta stop ties |
9:23 | nice and young i think i was three |
9:25 | months old yeah okay dad was baptized |
9:28 | late i think he was baptized 13 years |
9:30 | old i think i was 12 something like that |
9:32 | so as you when you got married and had |
9:35 | kids and all that sort of thing up until |
9:38 | that point religion was just in the |
9:39 | background just as a pleasant sort of |
9:41 | sunday activities yeah that’s right |
9:43 | where the right it was something you did |
9:45 | it and wasn’t you didn’t do it because |
9:48 | you had to did it because you wanted to |
9:51 | and you want your kids to be raised in |
9:53 | the church and you know go to Sunday |
9:55 | School and was their peer pressure from |
9:58 | the neighbors and family no no |
9:59 | absolutely no pressure whatsoever you |
10:03 | you went to church because you wanted to |
10:06 | go with a family thing then go to the |
10:09 | golden arches after he might have been |
10:14 | an incentive for your kids but you kids |
10:16 | never ever ever said I don’t want to go |
10:18 | to church I don’t wanna go to Sunday |
10:20 | School never sure and it wasn’t like I |
10:22 | was going to be if you didn’t very hazy |
10:24 | and mom would we pick up mom my mom |
10:28 | would be living with us said she’d go to |
10:30 | church with us and yeah it was just nice |
10:34 | and that always enjoyed in fact I was |
10:37 | going to say to you that he really |
10:39 | misses church yeah he told me that it is |
10:41 | a hurry yes he tells that all the time |
10:43 | and I say well why don’t you go to |
10:45 | church you can’t standard the crowds |
10:49 | yeah so in your own personal life did |
10:53 | you ever doubt God or become an atheist |
10:56 | retina you know did you ever curse God |
10:59 | oh yeah I swear you mean no but I mean |
11:02 | angry oh I’d be angry angry thoughts |
11:05 | time for a lot of things that happen in |
11:08 | my life Sir Richard against me that I |
11:13 | want to die I still want to die I would |
11:19 | say I’ve lost the joy of living or we |
11:22 | don’t go through deep to crash and tried |
11:24 | to kill myself twice here and come out |
11:29 | on this game no but through all the dark |
11:33 | stuff did you maintain a prayer life I |
11:36 | have stupid you know i still believe but |
11:41 | i don’t think anybody can live and see |
11:43 | things that happen to people kids and |
11:46 | all that that you wonder why you know |
11:49 | God can do so much why he allows stuff |
11:53 | to go on but I know that he gave us the |
11:57 | power to think for ourselves and and I |
12:00 | try to say not my will but thy will be |
12:04 | done you know yes and but I can’t see a |
12:10 | tiny little seed that has all the stuff |
12:13 | in there to make it a beautiful flower |
12:15 | without knowing that there is a God |
12:17 | there is someone that creates at it |
12:19 | doesn’t just happen you know so you |
12:21 | never fell into 8th you know I know it |
12:23 | is never did not I never stopped |
12:27 | believing in God but I did wonder if I |
12:30 | say at times I think how come on first |
12:33 | being so we do bad no it just things |
12:38 | that happened you know I think you know |
12:40 | what yes a lot of different yeah do you |
12:43 | think that you’ve had an amount of joy |
12:46 | to compensate for that or no no would |
12:49 | you rather be more a little bit more |
12:51 | like me where I don’t feel a lot of |
12:52 | highs and lows oh yeah lots of times I |
12:55 | say that like that can roll with the |
12:59 | punches more than I can and he’s very |
13:02 | happy being him yeah I’ve never been |
13:07 | very happy being me you ever wonder why |
13:10 | you have to suffer so much no it was |
13:14 | rebutted by which I just want to apply |
13:16 | god what a beta I don’t want to live |
13:20 | anymore yes I’m ready to go to but I’m |
13:24 | just gonna see if the Lord gives me my |
13:27 | dose is suffering before I go hope hey |
13:30 | how do you mind for you I haven’t |
13:33 | learned much yet you’ve done enough from |
13:35 | all the way no I yourself and everybody |
13:37 | everybody you know you don’t get through |
13:39 | life with it going through trauma I try |
13:43 | to figure out what happened to you when |
13:45 | you were 14 that major Scooby was there |
13:48 | something that we just stopped believe |
13:51 | in a God when I was 14 out a dream that |
13:54 | I saw Jesus he was waving to me woke up |
13:57 | and I realized that I had lost my faith |
13:58 | and it was counterintuitive but I just |
14:01 | went with it it was like Jesus waving to |
14:03 | buy to me it was sort of like he knew I |
14:05 | would come back to him and he was sort |
14:07 | of saying see you later Oh letting me |
14:10 | did you do horrible stuff on your 14 |
14:12 | more than the average 14 year-old |
14:14 | Jennifer I was always rebellious like |
14:17 | the stupid stuff when my mother called |
14:19 | me to go to Sunday school or whatever |
14:21 | and chef call me a million times before |
14:23 | I’d actually go I was rebellious like |
14:26 | that and I found drinking was well what |
14:31 | it does is it breaks down the barriers |
14:32 | and you can become a different person or |
14:35 | your real self comes out or something |
14:38 | like I like people they seem to like me |
14:41 | but it nobody likes me what I was I |
14:44 | don’t know I’m Sarah Connor yeah you had |
14:48 | so you started drinking when you’re |
14:50 | young to socialize yeah I guess I don’t |
14:53 | know I wanted to get out of myself what |
14:55 | you don’t like yourself just those two |
14:58 | get it yeah yeah get away it’d don’t |
15:03 | care about anything yeah anyway it’s |
15:10 | been a log found a lot of soft lost a |
15:16 | lot of it just because I have good |
15:19 | strong enough you don’t need to be |
15:20 | strong to go to heaven I think you need |
15:23 | to be weak to go to heaven |
15:26 | remember when we’re watching for |
15:28 | twilight zone and this old guy was up in |
15:33 | the clouds and he’s walk along with his |
15:36 | dog and he got to heaven and they said |
15:42 | you kid but no dogs allowed and so he |
15:46 | walked away and then finally he said you |
15:48 | know I can’t be heaven only dogs and so |
15:51 | he went down and sure enough he found |
15:53 | the where they were both welcome hey I |
15:58 | remember that ok let’s change topic a |
16:02 | little bit and talk about my conversion |
16:04 | what what impact did that have on year |
16:05 | was out of the blue or we surprised away |
16:07 | I was totally totally happy your whole |
16:11 | being changed you just wear by David |
16:14 | against it was just marvelous David it |
16:17 | just because I felt for you I was a bit |
16:20 | off during those years no you were yeah |
16:23 | you were troubled yeah you were really |
16:26 | seemed trouble see bit loose ends I was |
16:30 | so good hearted thanks for sticking with |
16:34 | me I thought what’s going to happen do |
16:39 | you plan for oh yeah I always pray for |
16:42 | you yeah always for special just because |
16:45 | you’re you but because I’d lost about |
16:48 | the babies are so afraid I was gonna |
16:50 | lose you while I was carrying you guys |
16:53 | afraid you weren’t going to live didn’t |
16:56 | the doctors give you some warning it |
16:57 | wouldn’t be a good idea to have another |
16:58 | day later all I said I shouldn’t have |
17:00 | another one for two years oak at least |
17:02 | two years yeah so I asked you I asked |
17:06 | you a lot like a version he said you’re |
17:08 | happy with it oh yeah it’s really happy |
17:11 | at dad are both have it with the wood we |
17:13 | went down there for the ceremony at one |
17:15 | confirmation oh it was just it was just |
17:17 | so uplifting and it just there’s so much |
17:21 | love you know and people feel warm |
17:24 | towards you know they know that you’re a |
17:26 | good person and I think you’re sincere |
17:29 | interested people I I think it’s a real |
17:32 | gift that you have I think you have |
17:34 | biggest yeah |
17:37 | so depression in our bloodline how many |
17:40 | of your siblings were clinically |
17:42 | depressed like we’re doctor would say |
17:44 | yeah you’re depressed I think all of us |
17:47 | yeah yeah I think Ken you know of anyone |
17:51 | in the family that was actively a witch |
17:54 | or demonic stuff on purpose no there’s |
17:56 | nothing like demonic that I know of but |
17:59 | my sister she was saying that when she’d |
18:03 | have these spells she said that the kids |
18:06 | would know when they were coming on so I |
18:09 | don’t know just what kind of spell she |
18:12 | had because I didn’t know I thought it |
18:15 | was like you know when I would get |
18:17 | depressed you know and I just go to bed |
18:19 | and you know but I never felt that it |
18:23 | was something that people would feel |
18:26 | coming on you know oh yeah we did as |
18:28 | kids I did you even know when we’re |
18:31 | going to be at school I’ll get that |
18:32 | special feeling and come home and there |
18:34 | would be something up oh really oh |
18:36 | really oh really at a distance oh really |
18:40 | but definitely what do you think that is |
18:42 | I think it’s a spiritual world yeah you |
18:46 | don’t feel it’s evil I mean I think |
18:48 | there’s good and evil and gods in charge |
18:51 | of the whole show and God allows evil |
18:53 | and so you know it was a foreboding yeah |
18:58 | yeah yeahs wasn’t Pleasant no but I was |
19:02 | always as a child I was always oblivious |
19:05 | and very much in a bubble and I would |
19:06 | have dreams and nightmares I man and the |
19:09 | distinction between the dream and |
19:11 | reality wasn’t always crystal clear you |
19:14 | know what I mean yeah yeah I just like |
19:16 | life is but a dream for me sort of even |
19:19 | to this day less so now yeah you know |
19:23 | but there’s you know you could attribute |
19:25 | it to mental unless you can attribute it |
19:26 | to some spiritual thing or whatever else |
19:30 | but when I think about my childhood and |
19:32 | the dream life yeah and some of these |
19:36 | sort of psychic phenomenon you know yeah |
19:40 | dark disturbing troubling stuff so it’s |
19:43 | nothing about it was pleasant it was all |
19:45 | like sort of spooky |
19:49 | okay spooky stuff yeah I’m not spooked |
19:52 | now I think I know that log yeah I had |
19:57 | no idea that you were sometimes I’m look |
20:00 | at your pictures school pictures and you |
20:02 | look sad and I think wonderful way to |
20:05 | said yeah I think dad said that the kids |
20:08 | all had different temperaments mine lean |
20:10 | towards melancholy yeah I think that’s |
20:13 | accurate but i prefer sizes / angry yeah |
20:16 | me too okay yeah yeah because I’m |
20:20 | overwhelmed with sadness well i must say |
20:23 | that i get to dreams where I stop them |
20:27 | you know like I feel that diamond you |
20:30 | know yeah and then I pray you know and |
20:34 | then I know that they can’t get across |
20:37 | this you know but I do have that fear of |
20:41 | the devil you know how many of you seven |
20:44 | girls of attempted suicide car and two |
20:47 | succeeded yeah so on a lighter note can |
20:50 | you just talk about sort of what you |
20:52 | love about God and what you look forward |
20:55 | to about heaven what are the good Rosie |
20:57 | happy scenarios that you have waiting |
20:59 | for you after the best well just dance |
21:02 | Footloose and fancy-free do you often |
21:07 | think of heaven well I think yeah a lot |
21:11 | what do you picture serenity just good |
21:15 | feeling just happy days are here again |
21:21 | no but I just think that all my trials |
21:25 | Lord to be over back in ossifer yeah |
21:29 | where there’s no more pain just a |
21:35 | feeling of togetherness with your loved |
21:38 | ones yeah anyone in particular you miss |
21:41 | that you’d like to see my mom and my |
21:47 | baby face you can always die in war no |
21:51 | no she lived three hours after she’s |
21:53 | blown when I came to and I asked out of |
21:57 | her she said you know with a girl that |
22:00 | she had spied |
22:02 | bifida and hydrocephalus water of the |
22:05 | brain and that the doctor had said that |
22:10 | to the opening in the back with spina |
22:14 | bifida was a large opening a and that |
22:18 | they could send her to travel to a |
22:20 | specialist to have her operated on but |
22:22 | Chad says she wouldn’t come through it |
22:25 | and if she did she’d never walk you |
22:28 | never know she might move six months she |
22:31 | might live and the doctor said that he |
22:34 | would recommend that we just let her go |
22:36 | so they just let her die like that or do |
22:39 | they have to do something because no no |
22:41 | she just died on her own so when did you |
22:44 | name her face dad okay what to give us |
22:48 | faith to go on it’s gonna be fun to see |
22:51 | what she looks like an have that yeah so |
22:53 | we don’t know who’s listening but what |
22:55 | would you say to anyone that is |
22:56 | listening let’s say don’t give up the |
22:58 | ship but to know you have to you can’t |
23:03 | rush it so I think you know no matter |
23:07 | how many times I’ve tried you can’t |
23:10 | bring the end on faster than you know |
23:13 | you find life long or how I look really |
23:20 | long long ago I said on post but you |
23:24 | know it’s not my enough up to here guess |
23:27 | it is I don’t think that’s maybe |
23:31 | uplifting but it’s all like I’d say yeah |
23:44 | you like it one of you if you can get |
23:46 | there are some questions I don’t know |
23:49 | all you got to do it all you have to do |