This is my mother, whom I love very much. I recorded this interview while visiting my parents in Kingston, Ontario, during Easter weekend, 2017.
Transcript
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| 0:00 | hi I’m Josephine Ross you’re listening |
| 0:02 | to Catholic versus Protestant toe looks |
| 0:09 | a little bit about yourself who you are |
| 0:10 | what you believe and why you believe it |
| 0:12 | well I was raised protestant i went to |
| 0:16 | the united church as a child i also went |
| 0:20 | to the Salvation Army periodically and |
| 0:23 | what was it like growing up with the |
| 0:25 | United Church of candidate did you were |
| 0:28 | you taught to pray by your mother before |
| 0:29 | bed and stuff like that before meals |
| 0:30 | with your father pray before meals oh no |
| 0:32 | my father did the closest thing my |
| 0:35 | father came to saying anything religious |
| 0:37 | for my mother had a felon or some pain |
| 0:40 | and she told that he’d say tell your |
| 0:43 | troubles to the Lord yeah he wasn’t |
| 0:45 | recognized religious tough but and he |
| 0:49 | wasn’t a round hole I’d he left and had |
| 0:52 | a baby with another woman while I was |
| 0:53 | being born so I didn’t know okay as I |
| 0:57 | how did how did it come about that you |
| 0:59 | were going to church well it was just |
| 1:01 | what we did it was we girls would why I |
| 1:06 | was baptized when I was about eight the |
| 1:09 | Queen Street United Church was about two |
| 1:12 | blocks away and we’d go to church I |
| 1:17 | don’t remember mom going with us |
| 1:18 | probably because she was so happy to |
| 1:21 | have an hour free of kids I hey and how |
| 1:25 | many how many kids were near there were |
| 1:27 | seven girls and no boys no boys no ok so |
| 1:33 | you I remember when I was young when you |
| 1:35 | taught me how to play before bad that’s |
| 1:36 | right your mom teach you or no she must |
| 1:39 | have I don’t recall it but would you |
| 1:41 | greatly yeah we always got near by the |
| 1:43 | bed and say now I lay me down to sleep |
| 1:46 | as I thought about it later cuz i taught |
| 1:49 | you guys to do that before you go to bed |
| 1:51 | but that i thought how scary really for |
| 1:55 | a little kid to say if i should die |
| 1:56 | before I wake you know but yeah we pray |
| 2:01 | that i still pray do you still say that |
| 2:03 | prayer not open on my heart is the |
| 2:06 | Lord’s Prayer okay no other was just |
| 2:09 | scared |
| 2:11 | but and I always I think it’s Psalm 122 |
| 2:18 | I always say that at night I sipped |
| 2:21 | through the day dreamers are you holding |
| 2:23 | up I shall lift up mine eyes unto the |
| 2:25 | hills from whence cometh my strength my |
| 2:27 | strengths cometh from the Lord which |
| 2:29 | created heaven and earth he shall not |
| 2:32 | suffer thy foot to be moved he who |
| 2:34 | keepeth thee shall not slumber behold he |
| 2:37 | who keepeth Israel shall neither slumber |
| 2:39 | nor sleep the Lord is thy keeper the |
| 2:42 | Lord aside yield upon thy right hand the |
| 2:45 | Sun shall not smite thee by day nor the |
| 2:47 | moon by night the Lord shall preserve |
| 2:49 | thee from all evil he shall preserve thy |
| 2:52 | soul shall preserve thy going out and |
| 2:55 | thy coming in from this day forward and |
| 2:57 | even forevermore okay would you recite |
| 3:02 | songs as a family of the kid or oh no no |
| 3:05 | there was never any sort touch of |
| 3:07 | religion really in the head interesting |
| 3:10 | that you guys will go to church yeah I |
| 3:12 | don’t know it’s just natural yeah we |
| 3:14 | just did it was and it was close mom |
| 3:18 | believed in God and she wanted us to |
| 3:22 | grow up okay yeah can you tell me a |
| 3:27 | little bit about I know it’s not |
| 3:29 | pleasant but when you went to high |
| 3:30 | school some was Catholic girl fiocchi |
| 3:31 | Josiah told aya well we do we’d be |
| 3:35 | walking along princess street and the |
| 3:39 | Catholic girls be on the other side and |
| 3:41 | these two girls and they’d haul her over |
| 3:44 | nasty stuff at us like hey look at her |
| 3:47 | she’s got red hair black eyebrows |
| 3:50 | because I had red hair by five I always |
| 3:55 | picked on me because I was always shy |
| 3:57 | anyway one time we were at Skelton Park |
| 4:01 | and these two Catholic girls show up and |
| 4:05 | they start beating me up and this is |
| 4:10 | when I was a lot younger than going to |
| 4:11 | high school and I bound and bent I was |
| 4:16 | not going to shed a tear through it and |
| 4:18 | they pulled my hair and pulled it i’m |
| 4:20 | sure they pulled some of it until at |
| 4:22 | last he stood back and said |
| 4:24 | wow she doesn’t feel any pain still sits |
| 4:27 | torturing me anymore but anyway the when |
| 4:31 | I was going to high school and these |
| 4:34 | same Catholic girls we were walking by |
| 4:36 | the bell telephone and she started |
| 4:40 | beating me up again right in front of |
| 4:41 | the tough on the guys from the frame at |
| 4:44 | the bell at the window hollering at you |
| 4:47 | no catfighting or whatever you know |
| 4:49 | anyway that was probably in October and |
| 4:53 | then in March I went started work as a |
| 4:57 | very building I saw those same guys that |
| 5:01 | it’s a refighting a so what happened as |
| 5:06 | you girls grew up did some of the kids |
| 5:08 | go deep into hardcore religion and |
| 5:10 | others less so or what’s the would not |
| 5:13 | affect from there no no what it was over |
| 5:16 | the top religious and nobody ever ever |
| 5:20 | ever swore in my home no no the only |
| 5:25 | time well if when we were at little we’d |
| 5:28 | ride mom nuts and we keep it up until |
| 5:31 | she said damn and when she said damn you |
| 5:34 | knew that was time to stop I thought |
| 5:39 | grandmother lived right next door she |
| 5:42 | was an interesting interesting lady your |
| 5:45 | grandmother yeah told fortunes and and |
| 5:49 | what was her trade name not amazing and |
| 5:53 | it was in the personal column of the wig |
| 5:56 | standard madam AZ knows all tells off |
| 6:00 | did she ever tell fortunes to her family |
| 6:02 | and friends are only two strangers I she |
| 6:04 | only paying customers had crystal ball |
| 6:09 | on a kitchen table and mom would be at |
| 6:13 | some time we lived there we lived |
| 6:15 | upstairs but did you have a mystique |
| 6:19 | about her or no I asked you know she |
| 6:20 | didn’t put on any gypsy type though no |
| 6:24 | but she was she had a presence that’s |
| 6:28 | what I would say okay she never cared |
| 6:30 | for me too much but my mom when we were |
| 6:33 | living that one |
| 6:34 | mom told me that my mother would be in |
| 6:39 | the living room and knock had come to |
| 6:41 | the door and it would be someone who |
| 6:43 | wander fortune told and they’d walk past |
| 6:46 | the living room to the kitchen mom could |
| 6:49 | hear them going out there and the chair |
| 6:51 | is being pulled out and then I see |
| 6:55 | someone in uniform as soon as it was the |
| 6:58 | war time everybody had Oh is he gonna be |
| 7:01 | all right yes he’s going to be all right |
| 7:05 | you know and they were glad to hear it |
| 7:09 | whether it shouldn’t have any powers but |
| 7:13 | she had the power of the tux yeah okay |
| 7:17 | and she was yeah she was special word no |
| 7:22 | it’s fun I never felt like I had a |
| 7:24 | grandmother at all truth about why you |
| 7:28 | just never had a grandmother that would |
| 7:30 | hug you know huh yeah what about your |
| 7:32 | mom’s mom she was sort of very very |
| 7:36 | unhappy lady she is not too warm no I |
| 7:41 | sure norm at all I don’t remember a |
| 7:42 | touch of me over I guess I didn’t like |
| 7:47 | her as a kid but as I’m older I can |
| 7:50 | realize that she was very unhappy |
| 7:51 | because this would be interesting in |
| 7:54 | your Catholic versus Protestant she was |
| 7:56 | in love with Catholic life he was in |
| 7:59 | love with her and in those days you did |
| 8:02 | not do it both families wouldn’t have |
| 8:05 | any part of it but too so they were |
| 8:08 | forbidden to marry and then however it |
| 8:11 | came about she married my grandfather |
| 8:14 | who was 18 years older than her I’m sure |
| 8:18 | they didn’t even like each other so when |
| 8:21 | you got a bit older and started working |
| 8:23 | as an adult or whatever left home no I |
| 8:26 | never left home till I got married okay |
| 8:28 | yeah but when you met dad was it just a |
| 8:31 | happy coincidence that you both belong |
| 8:33 | to the United Church of Canada well I |
| 8:35 | don’t remember it being savvy no I was |
| 8:39 | happy to read a but sort of thing like |
| 8:43 | incidental I went to yeah it’s church |
| 8:45 | was never sort of oh my god I gotta go |
| 8:48 | to |
| 8:48 | I’m going to die you know and he said it |
| 8:51 | was something you did and it was a part |
| 8:55 | of your life and a nice party in life |
| 8:58 | but when you met that and you just |
| 9:00 | casually found out he was united church |
| 9:01 | of canada and when you got when you were |
| 9:03 | going to get married it was just a |
| 9:05 | natural thing they didn’t require any |
| 9:06 | thought or anything just get married in |
| 9:08 | the United Church yeah that’s right and |
| 9:10 | he attended princess street united |
| 9:12 | church so that’s where we got married |
| 9:14 | where then when you guys were baptized |
| 9:17 | you all were baptized in the princess |
| 9:21 | street united yeah you gotta stop ties |
| 9:23 | nice and young i think i was three |
| 9:25 | months old yeah okay dad was baptized |
| 9:28 | late i think he was baptized 13 years |
| 9:30 | old i think i was 12 something like that |
| 9:32 | so as you when you got married and had |
| 9:35 | kids and all that sort of thing up until |
| 9:38 | that point religion was just in the |
| 9:39 | background just as a pleasant sort of |
| 9:41 | sunday activities yeah that’s right |
| 9:43 | where the right it was something you did |
| 9:45 | it and wasn’t you didn’t do it because |
| 9:48 | you had to did it because you wanted to |
| 9:51 | and you want your kids to be raised in |
| 9:53 | the church and you know go to Sunday |
| 9:55 | School and was their peer pressure from |
| 9:58 | the neighbors and family no no |
| 9:59 | absolutely no pressure whatsoever you |
| 10:03 | you went to church because you wanted to |
| 10:06 | go with a family thing then go to the |
| 10:09 | golden arches after he might have been |
| 10:14 | an incentive for your kids but you kids |
| 10:16 | never ever ever said I don’t want to go |
| 10:18 | to church I don’t wanna go to Sunday |
| 10:20 | School never sure and it wasn’t like I |
| 10:22 | was going to be if you didn’t very hazy |
| 10:24 | and mom would we pick up mom my mom |
| 10:28 | would be living with us said she’d go to |
| 10:30 | church with us and yeah it was just nice |
| 10:34 | and that always enjoyed in fact I was |
| 10:37 | going to say to you that he really |
| 10:39 | misses church yeah he told me that it is |
| 10:41 | a hurry yes he tells that all the time |
| 10:43 | and I say well why don’t you go to |
| 10:45 | church you can’t standard the crowds |
| 10:49 | yeah so in your own personal life did |
| 10:53 | you ever doubt God or become an atheist |
| 10:56 | retina you know did you ever curse God |
| 10:59 | oh yeah I swear you mean no but I mean |
| 11:02 | angry oh I’d be angry angry thoughts |
| 11:05 | time for a lot of things that happen in |
| 11:08 | my life Sir Richard against me that I |
| 11:13 | want to die I still want to die I would |
| 11:19 | say I’ve lost the joy of living or we |
| 11:22 | don’t go through deep to crash and tried |
| 11:24 | to kill myself twice here and come out |
| 11:29 | on this game no but through all the dark |
| 11:33 | stuff did you maintain a prayer life I |
| 11:36 | have stupid you know i still believe but |
| 11:41 | i don’t think anybody can live and see |
| 11:43 | things that happen to people kids and |
| 11:46 | all that that you wonder why you know |
| 11:49 | God can do so much why he allows stuff |
| 11:53 | to go on but I know that he gave us the |
| 11:57 | power to think for ourselves and and I |
| 12:00 | try to say not my will but thy will be |
| 12:04 | done you know yes and but I can’t see a |
| 12:10 | tiny little seed that has all the stuff |
| 12:13 | in there to make it a beautiful flower |
| 12:15 | without knowing that there is a God |
| 12:17 | there is someone that creates at it |
| 12:19 | doesn’t just happen you know so you |
| 12:21 | never fell into 8th you know I know it |
| 12:23 | is never did not I never stopped |
| 12:27 | believing in God but I did wonder if I |
| 12:30 | say at times I think how come on first |
| 12:33 | being so we do bad no it just things |
| 12:38 | that happened you know I think you know |
| 12:40 | what yes a lot of different yeah do you |
| 12:43 | think that you’ve had an amount of joy |
| 12:46 | to compensate for that or no no would |
| 12:49 | you rather be more a little bit more |
| 12:51 | like me where I don’t feel a lot of |
| 12:52 | highs and lows oh yeah lots of times I |
| 12:55 | say that like that can roll with the |
| 12:59 | punches more than I can and he’s very |
| 13:02 | happy being him yeah I’ve never been |
| 13:07 | very happy being me you ever wonder why |
| 13:10 | you have to suffer so much no it was |
| 13:14 | rebutted by which I just want to apply |
| 13:16 | god what a beta I don’t want to live |
| 13:20 | anymore yes I’m ready to go to but I’m |
| 13:24 | just gonna see if the Lord gives me my |
| 13:27 | dose is suffering before I go hope hey |
| 13:30 | how do you mind for you I haven’t |
| 13:33 | learned much yet you’ve done enough from |
| 13:35 | all the way no I yourself and everybody |
| 13:37 | everybody you know you don’t get through |
| 13:39 | life with it going through trauma I try |
| 13:43 | to figure out what happened to you when |
| 13:45 | you were 14 that major Scooby was there |
| 13:48 | something that we just stopped believe |
| 13:51 | in a God when I was 14 out a dream that |
| 13:54 | I saw Jesus he was waving to me woke up |
| 13:57 | and I realized that I had lost my faith |
| 13:58 | and it was counterintuitive but I just |
| 14:01 | went with it it was like Jesus waving to |
| 14:03 | buy to me it was sort of like he knew I |
| 14:05 | would come back to him and he was sort |
| 14:07 | of saying see you later Oh letting me |
| 14:10 | did you do horrible stuff on your 14 |
| 14:12 | more than the average 14 year-old |
| 14:14 | Jennifer I was always rebellious like |
| 14:17 | the stupid stuff when my mother called |
| 14:19 | me to go to Sunday school or whatever |
| 14:21 | and chef call me a million times before |
| 14:23 | I’d actually go I was rebellious like |
| 14:26 | that and I found drinking was well what |
| 14:31 | it does is it breaks down the barriers |
| 14:32 | and you can become a different person or |
| 14:35 | your real self comes out or something |
| 14:38 | like I like people they seem to like me |
| 14:41 | but it nobody likes me what I was I |
| 14:44 | don’t know I’m Sarah Connor yeah you had |
| 14:48 | so you started drinking when you’re |
| 14:50 | young to socialize yeah I guess I don’t |
| 14:53 | know I wanted to get out of myself what |
| 14:55 | you don’t like yourself just those two |
| 14:58 | get it yeah yeah get away it’d don’t |
| 15:03 | care about anything yeah anyway it’s |
| 15:10 | been a log found a lot of soft lost a |
| 15:16 | lot of it just because I have good |
| 15:19 | strong enough you don’t need to be |
| 15:20 | strong to go to heaven I think you need |
| 15:23 | to be weak to go to heaven |
| 15:26 | remember when we’re watching for |
| 15:28 | twilight zone and this old guy was up in |
| 15:33 | the clouds and he’s walk along with his |
| 15:36 | dog and he got to heaven and they said |
| 15:42 | you kid but no dogs allowed and so he |
| 15:46 | walked away and then finally he said you |
| 15:48 | know I can’t be heaven only dogs and so |
| 15:51 | he went down and sure enough he found |
| 15:53 | the where they were both welcome hey I |
| 15:58 | remember that ok let’s change topic a |
| 16:02 | little bit and talk about my conversion |
| 16:04 | what what impact did that have on year |
| 16:05 | was out of the blue or we surprised away |
| 16:07 | I was totally totally happy your whole |
| 16:11 | being changed you just wear by David |
| 16:14 | against it was just marvelous David it |
| 16:17 | just because I felt for you I was a bit |
| 16:20 | off during those years no you were yeah |
| 16:23 | you were troubled yeah you were really |
| 16:26 | seemed trouble see bit loose ends I was |
| 16:30 | so good hearted thanks for sticking with |
| 16:34 | me I thought what’s going to happen do |
| 16:39 | you plan for oh yeah I always pray for |
| 16:42 | you yeah always for special just because |
| 16:45 | you’re you but because I’d lost about |
| 16:48 | the babies are so afraid I was gonna |
| 16:50 | lose you while I was carrying you guys |
| 16:53 | afraid you weren’t going to live didn’t |
| 16:56 | the doctors give you some warning it |
| 16:57 | wouldn’t be a good idea to have another |
| 16:58 | day later all I said I shouldn’t have |
| 17:00 | another one for two years oak at least |
| 17:02 | two years yeah so I asked you I asked |
| 17:06 | you a lot like a version he said you’re |
| 17:08 | happy with it oh yeah it’s really happy |
| 17:11 | at dad are both have it with the wood we |
| 17:13 | went down there for the ceremony at one |
| 17:15 | confirmation oh it was just it was just |
| 17:17 | so uplifting and it just there’s so much |
| 17:21 | love you know and people feel warm |
| 17:24 | towards you know they know that you’re a |
| 17:26 | good person and I think you’re sincere |
| 17:29 | interested people I I think it’s a real |
| 17:32 | gift that you have I think you have |
| 17:34 | biggest yeah |
| 17:37 | so depression in our bloodline how many |
| 17:40 | of your siblings were clinically |
| 17:42 | depressed like we’re doctor would say |
| 17:44 | yeah you’re depressed I think all of us |
| 17:47 | yeah yeah I think Ken you know of anyone |
| 17:51 | in the family that was actively a witch |
| 17:54 | or demonic stuff on purpose no there’s |
| 17:56 | nothing like demonic that I know of but |
| 17:59 | my sister she was saying that when she’d |
| 18:03 | have these spells she said that the kids |
| 18:06 | would know when they were coming on so I |
| 18:09 | don’t know just what kind of spell she |
| 18:12 | had because I didn’t know I thought it |
| 18:15 | was like you know when I would get |
| 18:17 | depressed you know and I just go to bed |
| 18:19 | and you know but I never felt that it |
| 18:23 | was something that people would feel |
| 18:26 | coming on you know oh yeah we did as |
| 18:28 | kids I did you even know when we’re |
| 18:31 | going to be at school I’ll get that |
| 18:32 | special feeling and come home and there |
| 18:34 | would be something up oh really oh |
| 18:36 | really oh really at a distance oh really |
| 18:40 | but definitely what do you think that is |
| 18:42 | I think it’s a spiritual world yeah you |
| 18:46 | don’t feel it’s evil I mean I think |
| 18:48 | there’s good and evil and gods in charge |
| 18:51 | of the whole show and God allows evil |
| 18:53 | and so you know it was a foreboding yeah |
| 18:58 | yeah yeahs wasn’t Pleasant no but I was |
| 19:02 | always as a child I was always oblivious |
| 19:05 | and very much in a bubble and I would |
| 19:06 | have dreams and nightmares I man and the |
| 19:09 | distinction between the dream and |
| 19:11 | reality wasn’t always crystal clear you |
| 19:14 | know what I mean yeah yeah I just like |
| 19:16 | life is but a dream for me sort of even |
| 19:19 | to this day less so now yeah you know |
| 19:23 | but there’s you know you could attribute |
| 19:25 | it to mental unless you can attribute it |
| 19:26 | to some spiritual thing or whatever else |
| 19:30 | but when I think about my childhood and |
| 19:32 | the dream life yeah and some of these |
| 19:36 | sort of psychic phenomenon you know yeah |
| 19:40 | dark disturbing troubling stuff so it’s |
| 19:43 | nothing about it was pleasant it was all |
| 19:45 | like sort of spooky |
| 19:49 | okay spooky stuff yeah I’m not spooked |
| 19:52 | now I think I know that log yeah I had |
| 19:57 | no idea that you were sometimes I’m look |
| 20:00 | at your pictures school pictures and you |
| 20:02 | look sad and I think wonderful way to |
| 20:05 | said yeah I think dad said that the kids |
| 20:08 | all had different temperaments mine lean |
| 20:10 | towards melancholy yeah I think that’s |
| 20:13 | accurate but i prefer sizes / angry yeah |
| 20:16 | me too okay yeah yeah because I’m |
| 20:20 | overwhelmed with sadness well i must say |
| 20:23 | that i get to dreams where I stop them |
| 20:27 | you know like I feel that diamond you |
| 20:30 | know yeah and then I pray you know and |
| 20:34 | then I know that they can’t get across |
| 20:37 | this you know but I do have that fear of |
| 20:41 | the devil you know how many of you seven |
| 20:44 | girls of attempted suicide car and two |
| 20:47 | succeeded yeah so on a lighter note can |
| 20:50 | you just talk about sort of what you |
| 20:52 | love about God and what you look forward |
| 20:55 | to about heaven what are the good Rosie |
| 20:57 | happy scenarios that you have waiting |
| 20:59 | for you after the best well just dance |
| 21:02 | Footloose and fancy-free do you often |
| 21:07 | think of heaven well I think yeah a lot |
| 21:11 | what do you picture serenity just good |
| 21:15 | feeling just happy days are here again |
| 21:21 | no but I just think that all my trials |
| 21:25 | Lord to be over back in ossifer yeah |
| 21:29 | where there’s no more pain just a |
| 21:35 | feeling of togetherness with your loved |
| 21:38 | ones yeah anyone in particular you miss |
| 21:41 | that you’d like to see my mom and my |
| 21:47 | baby face you can always die in war no |
| 21:51 | no she lived three hours after she’s |
| 21:53 | blown when I came to and I asked out of |
| 21:57 | her she said you know with a girl that |
| 22:00 | she had spied |
| 22:02 | bifida and hydrocephalus water of the |
| 22:05 | brain and that the doctor had said that |
| 22:10 | to the opening in the back with spina |
| 22:14 | bifida was a large opening a and that |
| 22:18 | they could send her to travel to a |
| 22:20 | specialist to have her operated on but |
| 22:22 | Chad says she wouldn’t come through it |
| 22:25 | and if she did she’d never walk you |
| 22:28 | never know she might move six months she |
| 22:31 | might live and the doctor said that he |
| 22:34 | would recommend that we just let her go |
| 22:36 | so they just let her die like that or do |
| 22:39 | they have to do something because no no |
| 22:41 | she just died on her own so when did you |
| 22:44 | name her face dad okay what to give us |
| 22:48 | faith to go on it’s gonna be fun to see |
| 22:51 | what she looks like an have that yeah so |
| 22:53 | we don’t know who’s listening but what |
| 22:55 | would you say to anyone that is |
| 22:56 | listening let’s say don’t give up the |
| 22:58 | ship but to know you have to you can’t |
| 23:03 | rush it so I think you know no matter |
| 23:07 | how many times I’ve tried you can’t |
| 23:10 | bring the end on faster than you know |
| 23:13 | you find life long or how I look really |
| 23:20 | long long ago I said on post but you |
| 23:24 | know it’s not my enough up to here guess |
| 23:27 | it is I don’t think that’s maybe |
| 23:31 | uplifting but it’s all like I’d say yeah |
| 23:44 | you like it one of you if you can get |
| 23:46 | there are some questions I don’t know |
| 23:49 | all you got to do it all you have to do |