Catholic vs. Atheist – 2017-01-13 – Stephen Poitras

Stephen is an old friend. We have enjoyed many a game of chess, and many a game of squash. This was a great opportunity to get to know each other a little better on another level.


Please excuse any errors as these captions were automatically generated by YouTube.

0:00 hi my name is Stefan and you’re
0:01 listening to Catholic vs. 80s talk a
0:07 little bit about yourself who you are
0:09 what you believe in wine believe it
0:11 working stiff family man raised I guess
0:15 Catholic at least culturally Catholic I
0:17 believe in love you know the pleasures
0:21 of life I believe in death I believe in
0:24 evolution I believe in science I’m
0:27 pretty scientific minded I have a
0:29 scientific background I believe in love
0:33 I have for my children my family
0:34 basically anything you can experience or
0:36 test yeah pretty much everything I can
0:38 experience her test yeah was there a
0:40 time where you believe in the God that I
0:42 worship not really no I never felt
0:45 anyways right i mean a it was taught to
0:47 me did you go through the motions of
0:49 going to church as a child very little
0:52 you know sort of a christmas make sure
0:54 here absolutely it was ostensibly a
0:57 Catholic school I guess we didn’t reset
0:59 a prayer every morning it’s just by
1:00 wrong tree would repeat every sodemogi
1:02 pamela got a lot on the line and did you
1:04 not pray at night motor back very rarely
1:07 were you invited to play by your mother
1:10 for example no no who would you say has
1:13 more faith your mother or your father
1:14 I’m my father now and when Tyler’s
1:18 disease my mother is actually went to a
1:21 very she was trained as a nurse and was
1:23 educated by nuns and lived in a convent
1:27 essentially and there was pressure on
1:30 her to become a anonymous and directly
1:33 at least in her no one is forcing and
1:35 twisting her arm and she was part of
1:37 this generation that in Quebec
1:39 especially that really rejected
1:41 Catholicism right she’s of that
1:43 generation so she rejected it
1:44 wholeheartedly and to this day she’s
1:47 very anti church and my father who
1:50 deceased but he was out of much more
1:52 curiosity about the subject especially
1:54 in the last years of his life okay so he
1:56 would start going to church on his own
1:58 right the cell I’ll go have a look and
2:00 see what’s going on and
2:01 listen to what the priests eyes would
2:03 say so and but as I was growing up he
2:06 never really went to church this later
2:08 on in his life and I’m an adult and I
2:09 already moved out of home that he would
2:11 start attending church service and
2:13 release in a while so it was never an
2:14 issue of conflict between your father
2:16 and your mother not a big deal no no it
2:18 was just growing interest near the end
2:20 of his life yeah the approaching death
2:23 was that a backer I it was even before
2:26 he knew he was sick this interest is
2:28 growing in local heart I guess as he
2:30 approached death was spirituality
2:32 something that he was attached to the in
2:35 terms of hope of an afterlife or
2:36 something like that I don’t I don’t get
2:38 that sense no maybe it was but we never
2:41 discussed it and it wasn’t like a
2:43 deathbed conversion or anything like
2:45 that no no no the death was it was it
2:47 was a cancer and we were very violent
2:49 and fast so I don’t think he had any
2:53 energy to even contemplate the higher
2:55 order of things and maybe he did yeah I
2:58 don’t know you know he didn’t discuss it
2:59 do you feel more like your mother or
3:02 more like your father in your
3:03 personality I’d say more like my father
3:05 I want to see me again can you talk a
3:08 little bit about your home life with
3:10 your wife and kids and what role the
3:12 church plays are not sure well my wife
3:14 is a practicing Catholic and she wants
3:17 you know to raise our children as
3:19 Catholics so she attends church services
3:22 she tries to convince the children to go
3:25 with her and once in a while and she’s
3:27 very involved in her church and she
3:28 raises our children as Catholics yeah
3:31 but what effect has that had on you just
3:33 in terms of the state’s day living well
3:35 you know she likes to say a prayer
3:37 before meal for example I think that’s
3:39 fine right often a prayer of thanking
3:42 God for the bounty that we have and
3:45 asking God to help others that aren’t so
3:47 fortunate right and I agree with that
3:49 wholeheartedly there any min the sense
3:50 that I am grateful for the bounty that I
3:52 have in my life right abundant food
3:54 warmth clothing security and I’m very
3:57 thankful for that so I don’t mind
3:59 thanking God even though I don’t really
4:01 know what that means you know or even
4:03 really care that much I’m like to be
4:06 thankful right for what I have and I
4:08 like to you know feel for others in art
4:11 so for sure and hope that things turn
4:13 out better
4:13 right so again to me god I don’t know
4:17 what if you had any role in this or
4:19 whatever it doesn’t matter to me right I
4:21 just want to express if I like
4:23 expressing that hope you know in your
4:27 heart of hearts and maybe some of your
4:28 darkest loneliest moments have you ever
4:30 reached out to God out of desperation
4:32 you know you don’t believe yeah yeah
4:34 I’ve done not sure when things are
4:37 really good I tend to reach out to God
4:39 so to speak to be thankful right like
4:41 what what have I done to deserve this
4:43 okay and when things are going bad I
4:45 swear at God quote-unquote hey why are
4:48 you doing this to me so self-pity anyway
4:51 but it’s not like in a time of
4:53 desperation I don’t call out for help
4:55 and that’s most never been something
4:57 strangely that but I’ve done okay the
5:00 time of desperation i damned god okay
5:02 and good times i’m thankful yeah so how
5:06 do you explain your existence where do
5:08 you think you came from yeah although I
5:11 mean that’s something I’ve thought about
5:12 quite a bit right from the point of view
5:15 of science obviously right and I’ve
5:18 studied geology in a lot a history of
5:21 time you know the dust that was this
5:23 planet before it consolidated and became
5:25 a planet and how there was no oxygen on
5:28 this planet is just a ball of hot magma
5:30 until it cooled off and had a crust and
5:32 eventually water and eventually oxygen
5:34 and eventually you know unicellular
5:37 beings and then eventually multicellular
5:39 organisms and eventually more and more
5:42 complexity right so a belief of where I
5:44 come from is that soup you know where
5:47 did that seat come from I don’t know or
5:48 Alchemist or another question that would
5:50 you really don’t know would you say it
5:52 but just I just have to add that I’m not
5:54 uncomfortable not knowing that like it’s
5:57 the same other end of life right when i
5:59 die and i know i will die right I’m not
6:01 anxious about knowing what is in the
6:03 afterlife I’m assuming there’s just
6:05 nothing right I’m here for a discrete
6:07 period of time and whenever I make the
6:11 best of it because it’s only go out for
6:13 me another 40 years and then how do you
6:14 explain morality if there’s not
6:17 no lasting consequence to the choices
6:19 you make I tend to look at it
6:23 evolutionarily you know like I do
6:25 choices to help my offspring you know
6:27 essentially and I think that as you’re
6:29 building organisms the best way to do is
6:32 just to help each other out for the
6:33 survival of the entire species right but
6:36 I know that there’s weaknesses in that
6:38 argument obviously because we’re
6:39 destroying the planet we live on right
6:41 as collectively that’s what we’re doing
6:43 you know there is certainly some choices
6:46 that feel better than others as well
6:47 right and I know that when I hurt people
6:50 it doesn’t feel as good is when I help
6:53 people her name why is that I don’t know
6:55 right is that just again like a biology
6:58 the evolution that you know we’re no or
7:02 not I’m on but I know that there is evil
7:04 right we see it every day we see you
7:06 know there’s a terrible war going on in
7:08 Syria right now and we see the refugees
7:11 flooding trying to escape and we see
7:13 ourselves or western world doing not
7:16 very much about it right so that makes
7:20 me feel guilty as well right like why am
7:22 I not doing more to help my fellow
7:24 citizens I feel cheap you know this is
7:27 in my nice comfortable bubble of the
7:29 Western world and the war mouse with a
7:31 nice job and my family it doesn’t feel
7:34 good to do nothing right so I could do
7:37 nothing which is an ok choice I could do
7:39 hurt people which be the worst choice
7:40 nor only on this and I could even better
7:43 I mean I could help actually make an
7:45 effort and sacrifice myself to help
7:47 others which is you know I realizes the
7:50 right choice but i don’t really do it
7:52 that much there’s a principle in
7:53 christianity which is to deal with your
7:57 immediate surroundings like if you have
7:58 kids so your first responsibility is to
8:00 your wife and kids and even jobs your
8:02 responsibilities to go to your job so
8:04 there’s a sort of danger that some
8:06 people fall into where they think that
8:08 it’s in Africa or Asia that they need to
8:10 be helping those poor people over there
8:12 so I think you’re doing a good job and
8:14 you’re doing a lot you contribute and
8:15 yours sacrificing but I want to talk a
8:18 little bit about the universe in
8:21 geological time and I think you will
8:23 agree that there was a time in the
8:25 universe where there was no biological
8:26 life right for sure man
8:29 and I think you will agree also that
8:30 there’s the time in the future were
8:31 biological life no longer sustainable on
8:34 this prior to me in the emerging leaders
8:36 I don’t know like wouldn’t necessarily
8:38 say that entropy you’ve heard of entropy
8:41 yeah yeah I’ve heard of entropy for sure
8:43 and will be universe peter out i guess i
8:47 don’t know but yeah maybe it’ll peter
8:50 out do you think that life comes from
8:52 non-life meaning that molecules yeah i
8:55 ended i fell into bad that i think is
8:58 possible yeah okay yeah i think it’s
9:00 possible it’s extraordinary right yet i
9:03 think it’s possible there’s a point in
9:05 life in time when there was a very
9:08 simple life on this planet and it went
9:10 on for a long time nothing happens for a
9:12 billion years the planets 4.5 billion
9:15 years old the first life appears about a
9:19 billion and a half years ago and then
9:21 nothing happens for a billion years
9:23 except these very simple simple simple
9:26 life forms until two of these life forms
9:28 sort of fused together maxima apparently
9:32 by that right what else could it be what
9:34 else could it be all right i love and
9:36 then and the odds of this happening is
9:38 like incredible but it happened do you
9:41 think that the physical universe is
9:44 eternal that it’s infinite in time in
9:47 both directions or do you think there’s
9:48 a beginning in time and or an end in
9:51 time for the physical universe again way
9:54 beyond my knowledge of science right and
9:56 i think both both are possible and i
9:59 don’t know which one is right missus
10:01 okay you don’t favor one viewer then I
10:03 who might answer these gears okay
10:06 certainly someone must have thought
10:09 about this familiar at least philosophic
10:12 I’m sure someone has yeah typically I’m
10:14 sure someone has I’m not sure if I told
10:16 you it’s untenable to have infinite time
10:18 behind us in the past if you read to
10:21 somewhere and you know this to be the
10:22 other doctor there’s a proof the others
10:24 no softball proof and it has to do with
10:26 cause and effect see your amount of
10:29 science you believe in cause and effect
10:30 yeah well do you think your mind is only
10:34 an epic phenomenon of your brain
10:36 activity or is there a supernatural
10:38 component to your mind
10:40 I think my mind is controlled by my body
10:44 okay I think that for example the
10:48 bacterial flora in my gut affects my
10:52 mind saying I have no doubt that it
10:53 affects your mind but is there anything
10:54 beyond the physical no well I mean
10:58 there’s sure there’s a cultural that
11:00 affects my mind right I mean I’m a
11:02 product of the culture i live in but how
11:05 does that get plumb because your mind to
11:07 people like user your five senses yeah
11:09 which is physical sure so are you a
11:11 materialist do believe in the
11:13 supernatural or not no I don’t believe
11:15 this if you don’t believe in us or not
11:16 no it’s not no do you believe in
11:19 randomness true randomness now I think
11:21 there’s some sort of order right things
11:23 obviously organize themselves it’s like
11:25 this cloud of Stardust that we had from
11:28 a billion years ago has ordered itself
11:30 to us I mean it’s not exactly randomness
11:34 but it doesn’t mean it’s God exerciser
11:36 you know necessarily well know that and
11:39 what I don’t want to do is ascribe
11:41 things that I don’t know as being divine
11:43 right something to you know like that’s
11:45 ours I don’t want to having with this
11:47 where I’m heading with this is that if
11:49 you are a materialist and if you’re an
11:51 atheist you are obligated rationally to
11:56 be a determinist meaning that there is
11:58 no free will there is no morality there
11:59 is no responsibility there is no praise
12:01 there’s no blame to the extent that
12:04 there is praise and blame it’s just the
12:06 working out of that deterministic sister
12:09 what and if it if I’m an atheist I must
12:12 be a determinist as i right what is the
12:14 VI was a determinist believes that there
12:17 is no uncaused affect every effect has a
12:22 cause the acs doesn’t have god so
12:24 therefore all of his causes are natural
12:27 which means that everything is subject
12:29 to science everything right every
12:32 thought that you have every feeling that
12:33 you have is in principle measurable in
12:36 your brain activity in principle
12:38 everything in principle is subject to
12:41 natural science and what this does is
12:44 eliminate personal responsibility
12:46 picture that Judge climbing down as
12:48 gavel and saying death sentence for you
12:51 buddy it’s true
12:53 a big machine working itself out there
12:57 is no real guilt in the criminal and
13:00 there’s no real judgment in the judge
13:03 nothing has any meaning it’s just a
13:07 perfectly well oiled machine running its
13:09 course if you don’t have the
13:10 supernatural right the problem with
13:12 atheism is that they want to have their
13:13 cake and eat it too they want to deny
13:16 God and deny the supernatural but have
13:18 quantum fluctuations true randomness and
13:21 have free will and to be able to be
13:24 self-determining and have morality and
13:26 all these such things the problem is
13:28 that you can’t have both you can have
13:30 God in morality and freedom or you can
13:33 have everything being a hundred percent
13:34 natural it’s very binary in your mind or
13:37 any other it’s not binary in my mind
13:39 it’s binary by definition by definition
13:41 right yeah because there’s no wiggle
13:43 room there’s no way to escape it either
13:45 everything is determined by a natural
13:47 cause and effect or not and if you’re
13:51 willing to say not you’re racing with
13:53 supernatural by definition if you value
13:56 free will and if you value morality you
13:59 owe it to yourself to start looking at
14:01 the supernatural because that used by
14:02 definition involved a morality this is
14:06 all like mental masturbation ready for
14:08 me it just like would Jesus be talking
14:10 about these things that would he didn’t
14:11 know helping others yeah he would
14:13 generally he’d be in his heart loving I
14:15 hope that it’s clear to my friends at
14:17 least that philosophy and playing with
14:20 ideas is my hobby and if I am pushy and
14:24 annoying with my hobby I hope that
14:26 doesn’t give Jesus Christ a bad name
14:28 right now yes we’re waiting me it’s
14:33 leading me to God I mean this is the
14:34 whole point this is the reason that I’ve
14:35 converted one of the contributing
14:38 factors i guess i could safely say jesus
14:40 said seek and ye shall find and when I
14:42 am exploring philosophy or even other
14:46 religions when I talk to someone with
14:48 another face I feel like I’m exploring
14:50 God and I see God mainly in people I’m
14:53 most interested in people and in
14:56 people’s minds and people’s hearts and
14:58 people’s stories particularly their love
15:01 stories and the relationship with God
15:03 and how they see differently and when
15:06 two people district
15:07 you look something they can’t both be
15:08 right they could both be wrong but they
15:09 can’t both be right I think my day of
15:12 love and friendship has to do with
15:14 allowing the other person to be kudiye
15:16 and to appreciate that and to let them
15:20 have free expression of their
15:22 perspective on truth to me love and
15:24 truth are very closely related and
15:26 what’s most disappointing in a
15:28 friendship is when someone doesn’t
15:29 accept my expression of truth as I see
15:32 hit that’s a very frustrating thing for
15:35 me that’s a very upsetting so I think my
15:38 ideas love has to do with freedom truth
15:42 and also catering to basic needs do you
15:46 help people you love are you a
15:48 charitable person do you and your
15:51 concept of loving people and love it you
15:53 know being a Christian when you see
15:55 someone that the Metro cold shivering
15:58 you help them you feel a need to help
16:00 them is that why either you give them
16:03 money knowing that from my perspective
16:06 it’s not the money it’s the love behind
16:08 the money it’s the Prairie and the money
16:09 this physical world is still transient
16:12 and so passing and God allow suffering
16:14 and I can alleviate sufferings of those
16:17 closest to me that’s my primary duty and
16:19 if I brought home every homeless person
16:22 from the metro that I met which I’m
16:23 inclined to view my marriage would end
16:25 very quickly I could do that but I
16:27 choose not to so I give money to the
16:30 poor and I give my friendship to the
16:34 poor I talk to them a listen to them and
16:36 I pray for them that’s my mission of the
16:39 Christian is to pray for the true and
16:41 lasting conversion of people pray for
16:43 the Holy Souls and purgatory those have
16:45 passed on like your father I bought you
16:47 of Perpetual mass for you and your
16:49 family and that includes your parents
16:51 and that includes your deceased father
16:52 so that means that if he’s in purgatory
16:55 right now he’s getting massive said for
16:57 him every day helping him get at
16:59 perkatory even now he is grateful to me
17:02 for that gesture of love and he will pay
17:04 that forward so god only knows how all
17:07 of this plays out but i think that
17:08 prayer is a very charitable act and i
17:11 take it seriously and
17:13 I think getting my friends to heaven I
17:16 can’t think of anything better and who
17:18 goes to heaven for what happens when we
17:21 die I guess that maybe that would give
17:22 my question will bad what happened your
17:25 soul is separated from your body so your
17:29 soul is a supernatural spirit that has
17:32 no part it’s simple and it is created at
17:35 conception that full that he gave you is
17:38 then transformed by you and judged by
17:40 him afterwards no he he gives you a soul
17:44 which is subject to the domination of
17:47 Satan because of the original sin of
17:50 Adam and Eve the soul that he gives you
17:52 is worthy of hell that’s why we need
17:56 baptism so you get baptized by the
17:57 church and if you receive that sacrament
18:00 worthily and if you live your faith and
18:02 your faithful to your baptismal vows
18:04 that were made on your behalf by your
18:06 parents you are cleansed by the blood of
18:08 Jesus from original sin and from actual
18:11 sin you committed that’s why people used
18:13 to delay the baptism until later in life
18:16 ok so then God looks at this and he
18:19 judges you the soul you’re just
18:21 confronting the truth about who you are
18:22 the choices I made so I go to God and I
18:25 say listen I I didn’t do bad that didn’t
18:29 be much good I’m just sort of a normal
18:31 Joel what are you going to do with me
18:33 now no it’ll be you’ll be horrified by
18:36 all of your failings all the things you
18:38 did wrong when you did evil what did i
18:41 do evil yeah oh yeah really yeah and
18:43 you’ll be horrified because your eyes
18:45 will be open and you’ll see it okay and
18:47 you’ll be horrified about all the
18:49 opportunities to do good that you didn’t
18:50 do no my god I’m aware of yeah and you
18:53 will see all the graces that you’ve
18:55 received okay and you’ll be in awe of
18:58 the goodness of God and how he gave you
19:00 everything that we gave you okay and
19:01 then like because the outcome is heaven
19:04 or hell those are the two out colors of
19:06 the chunk okay yeah they are they
19:07 equally populated we don’t know okay we
19:11 don’t know I like to think that there
19:12 aren’t many people in hell but if you
19:14 look at the writings of the Saints a lot
19:16 of them are saying that there are a lot
19:19 of people going out and it horrifies me
19:21 to think that that that’s the case but I
19:24 accept it if it is the case i like to
19:26 think
19:27 that people go to heaven that people
19:28 love God they say yes to God but
19:30 ultimately the Church teaches that it is
19:32 the choice of the individual I do you
19:35 love God and you say yes to God and you
19:36 let God into your heart or you don’t and
19:40 I think that that kind of selfish
19:42 spiteful hatred is extremely rare you
19:45 talk about the bell curve I think it’s
19:46 extremely rare I like to see the bulk of
19:48 humanity suffering the purgatory but I’m
19:51 actually going to heaven masochist
19:53 recitative know you want to be people
19:57 suffer no it’s not because I want the I
19:59 lightning thing no no it’s not because I
20:01 want that it’s because the holiness and
20:03 the perfection that you need is
20:05 remarkable the reason it’s remarkable is
20:07 because it’s rare I don’t want people to
20:10 suffer in purgatory that’s why I’m
20:12 praying for the souls in purgatory I
20:14 don’t want your father to be in
20:15 purgatory but if you don’t experience
20:17 purification before you die you have to
20:19 experience it after you die that’s what
20:20 purgatory is so it’s not a sadistic wish
20:24 on my part I don’t wish anyone hell I
20:26 don’t wish anyone purgatory I which
20:27 everyone goes straight to heaven but to
20:29 do that you need to do certain things
20:31 that which is all sanctification here
20:34 below so that we have the sacraments
20:36 right and for that we have in prayer for
20:38 that we have selfless heroic virtue so
20:41 neither your bleep right these are the
20:43 teachings of the church and you believed
20:45 it would ya what does that mean for you
20:47 to have a belief for me conversion was
20:51 playing with the same ideas but just
20:54 having those assumptions change and then
20:57 the same logic applies but you get
20:59 different results it’s just the logical
21:01 consequence it’s just like I was talking
21:03 about determinate of it Renee theists
21:05 when you examine the basic fundamental
21:08 assumptions that we all make you may
21:11 change your mind about the assumption
21:12 and then everything else will change I
21:15 like to use the example of someone who
21:18 sees video footage of their beloved
21:20 husband walking clearly and obviously
21:23 into a whorehouse okay the sort of
21:26 natural and excusable reaction would be
21:29 oh my god this guy’s cheating on me and
21:31 he’s unfaithful and imagining all kinds
21:33 of worst-case scenarios
21:34 but there are actually other explanation
21:37 as possible we can write a story right
21:38 now that would explain it away right
21:40 religious faith is just well I don’t
21:43 believe that he’s unfaithful I think
21:45 there’s a perfectly good explanation for
21:46 why went into that place and in my mind
21:50 his reputation is not solely by the fact
21:52 that he went in there so it really is
21:56 about who you trust and why and I trust
22:01 god I know who God is and I trust God
22:03 and that knowledge of God came about
22:07 because of asking the tough questions
22:08 existential questions Who am I where do
22:10 I come from what is morality do you
22:12 think your life is important yeah yeah I
22:16 think every human life is important I
22:17 think everything is important but would
22:21 it make much of a difference if he died
22:23 or whether you die in five years or
22:25 whether you had already died five years
22:26 ago would it make much difference the
22:29 most important thing in terms of the
22:30 timing of my death is that I die in a
22:32 state of grace it’s not a completely
22:35 black and white thing got to do whatever
22:36 you want but if you want to go to heaven
22:38 probably it’s best to strive always to
22:41 do what’s safest you know you can
22:43 survive jumping out of an airplane
22:44 without a parachute I think it’s better
22:46 to put on the person so that’s what I’m
22:48 trying to do and what happens like that
22:50 you’ve heard of miscarriages right the
22:52 church says very clearly that we leave
22:54 that in God’s mercy and that we trust
22:57 fully in His mercy I’m comfortable with
23:00 whatever reality is I’m very comfortable
23:02 with it even if i go to how
23:03 uncomfortable with it you know it’s
23:04 gonna be really horrible but I trust God
23:06 and I believe that if I end up in hell
23:08 that’s the best thing that could happen
23:10 objectively speaking subjectively it’s
23:12 going to be the worst thing that could
23:13 happen that’s why I’m trying to avoid
23:15 him I love once a book about a German
23:18 guy who had escaped it Tibet during the
23:20 Second World War and he ended up being a
23:23 teacher to the Dalai Lama on to present
23:25 Alabama when he was five six seven years
23:27 old and he describes people digging a
23:31 hole so every time they’d see a bug they
23:33 kneel down take the bug put it aside
23:35 keep digging the hole you know different
23:37 faiths have different ways of seeing all
23:39 these questions that you’d be honored
23:41 deeply about right
23:42 to someone from the outside looking at
23:44 the couch right I think it’s important
23:46 to make our decision not based on are
23:49 you vegetarian or not I think we need to
23:51 go deeper what is the best case scenario
23:54 and what is the worst-case scenario if
23:56 there’s no difference between the best
23:57 case scenario and the worst-case
23:58 scenario then there is by definition no
24:01 basis for morality period and you can do
24:03 what you want the outcome will be the
24:05 same what about cultures who don’t have
24:07 this concept this are they more vicious
24:09 than catholics when you look at it as an
24:11 anthropologist you see people who don’t
24:14 have concepts of Heaven and Hell being
24:15 more violent I see people as people
24:17 everyone everyone has the same source
24:21 and the same goal life and death North
24:23 is light on the corner desks or serve
24:25 God and the goal is God okay so everyone
24:28 was created gratuitously my god and
24:31 everyone is destined forgot everyone and
24:33 so the window dressing I’m an atheist
24:36 I’m a Buddhist I miss that’s just a very
24:38 thin veneer over the human heart in that
24:41 heart of hurt God knows if you love him
24:44 god knows what you’re doing and when
24:46 you’re being social when you’re not and
24:47 when you’re sacrificing and when you’re
24:49 not and that the only thing that matters
24:53 actions don’t matter you actions do
24:54 matter your actions flow from that but
24:57 in terms of action you know I can’t tell
25:00 the difference Jane atheists in the
25:01 Buddhist or a Catholic I can’t because
25:03 they’re all creatures of God and they’re
25:05 all they all have conscience right I
25:07 don’t think that I’m better than anyone
25:09 else i don’t think that i am more
25:11 important important or that i do more
25:14 you know i don’t i think we’re all nice
25:16 is actually in both i just am aware so
25:20 when it comes time for judgment I’ll be
25:22 judged more harshly than at the Buddhist
25:23 because the Buddhist wasn’t aware of
25:25 what God is and what God wants right
25:27 what do you think Jesus would do a few
25:30 is here today in this world that we live
25:33 in would it be a critic of the church
25:35 you think in the book of revelation of
25:38 the last book in in the Christian Bible
25:40 Jesus chastises the churches because of
25:43 either the lack of faith or their
25:45 selfishness or their hypocrisy that’s a
25:47 big one right if you look at the life of
25:48 Jesus it’s always Jesus coming down
25:51 really really hard on his pee
25:54 the Jews the Pharisees described a
25:56 hypocrite right and being very very
25:58 gentle to the prostitutes and the
26:00 sinners the regular people because the
26:02 Jews are the chosen people they’ve been
26:04 entrusted with the truth and so they’re
26:06 subject to more criticism and it’s the
26:08 same thing in the book of Revelation
26:09 when the first Christian churches are
26:11 growing up there in a privileged
26:13 position and they should know better and
26:15 so they’re getting chastised by Jesus I
26:17 think if you read the history of the
26:19 papacy if you read the history of the
26:20 council if you read the history of the
26:21 church in general you’ll see that this
26:24 church is always struggling and it’s
26:26 always full of sinners and as a Catholic
26:31 I need to reconcile that reality that
26:33 greedy ugly reality with the other side
26:35 of the coin which is that it is the
26:36 mystical body of Christ it’s the Bride
26:38 of Christ it’s the perfect society it’s
26:40 infallible so there are two sides to
26:42 that coin always I think seen this
26:43 fallen world so I’m very comfortable
26:46 with that and I think that if Jesus were
26:47 here today he would recognize the good
26:50 and he would recognize the evil and he
26:52 would chastise the selfish hypocrites
26:54 myself included so I welcome that
26:56 wholeheartedly and that’s part of the
27:00 day-to-day humility of being Christian
27:02 is knowing that that judgment is coming
27:04 you know I could happen right now before
27:05 you had done the sentence Jesus could
27:07 come again so we need to be ready that’s
27:12 a sense of urgency that we have
27:14 questions that we should have how do you
27:16 feel about the Christians that are
27:18 persecuted in this world and I get more
27:20 broadly anyone who’s persecuted really
27:22 and whether they be Jews or Muslims or
27:25 you know there’s a lot of religious
27:27 persecution and what are you doing do to
27:29 try to caltrain a door number one is
27:31 prayer I know you don’t think highly of
27:33 prayer but I think very highly of prayer
27:35 and Jesus said that the persecuted are
27:38 blessed and that they should sing and
27:40 dance and rejoice if they’re persecuted
27:42 for his name for Jesus name I think that
27:46 Jesus loves the devote to the devout
27:49 Muslim God knows what his relationship
27:51 is with that individual if that
27:53 individual is suffering he sees the
27:56 suffering of his son and I think that
27:57 Jesus is to be found most in those that
28:00 have persecuted those that are suffering
28:02 those that have betrayed those are their
28:03 misunderstood
28:04 and the poor and the weak and that’s the
28:08 way that the Church teaches me to see
28:10 the underprivileged so I like to ask my
28:14 guests to just wrap up with a little
28:16 final thought what would you say to
28:18 anyone who’s listening there’s some
28:20 beautiful things you said right and
28:22 there’s some things that just seemed
28:24 frankly ridiculous to me and I leave
28:26 this conversation ceiling no more faith
28:30 than i did before right i spoke to a
28:32 woman and she’s a Catholic a wonderful
28:35 woman and they would clean the feet of
28:38 the homeless people right they bandaged
28:40 them up they would give him new socks
28:43 that they had knitted and send them off
28:45 again that is sacred Rhea she’s doing
28:48 something to help someone it talking
28:50 about you know whether or not your soul
28:52 you know is ripped apart from your body
28:54 but you know things are fantastic and
28:56 totally useless I think you know Jesus
28:59 would laugh at us just relax you know
29:03 and just try to help other people try to
29:05 lead a good honest life be helpful and
29:09 you know your life will be over soon
29:11 enough anyway right make the best of it
29:14 while you’re here right and try to save
29:16 the planet that’s the big worry for me
29:18 is that this planet is going to implode
29:21 that’s what we’ve got to avoid a lot
29:23 more than figuring out if I should be a
29:25 Muslim or a Christian or a Jew or
29:28 whatever right this planet this is the
29:33 ark all you got and I can one of you if
29:40 you can get rockin questions a piano
29:43 girl all you gotta feeling oh yeah

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